Supercilious Pain in the Nether Regions Post (Caut

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Cav, its apparent now that you are a business owner or in charge of hiring. You mentiond about peoples resumes and how others percieve people. This hits me very true and this is one of my pet peves after being in printing for about 10 years now. I can not tell you how many times I have had to copy those stupid resumes hand written on plain paper, sometimes lined. I try my hardest to convince them to at least type it out. The other thing is the people who have a wonderfull resume but refuse to spend the extra 7 cents to get it copied on a nice linen paper, somthing besides 20lb. bond. My resume is of course done professionally and on 100% watermarked linen. I even go as far as to make sure that the watermark is contained fully on the paper and preferaably twords the lower middle.
 
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Originally posted by Dario




"Pinay" is a shortcut for Filipina and it is a common, accepted word.

I am not sure when the change happened but I moved here in 1991 and English was still the medium of instruction then. LOML graduated 1996 and it was still English.

It is possibly done by politicians to drum up nationality. While there is nothing wrong with that, I believe that being fluent in English helps a lot when you go after "international" job opportunities. Sadly, Philippines' main "export" is manpower and finding jobs locally there is almost near impossible if you are not "connected" or really exceptional. In this case they just took away a possible edge of the new graduates to compete outside. right or wrong move depends on how you look at it.
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Dario, I've been corrected by SWMBO. Appearently I have several GLARING errors to her eyes. First, my daughter was in school there in 1997-1998, not 2006 (so I was off by 10 years). Secondly, the classes were in fact conducted in English, but the students were allowed to speak tagalog outside of class. Whereas during her time in school this was not allowed (students were fined for speaking tagalog). They both attended a Catholic school and it was appearently much more strict during her "incarceration". ;)
 
Originally posted by turned_for_good

Cav, its apparent now that you are a business owner or in charge of hiring. You mentiond(mentioned) about peoples (people's) resumes and how others percieve (i befroe E, EXCEPT after C-perceive) people. This hits me very true and this is one of my pet peves (peeves)after being in printing for about 10 years now. I can not tell you how many times I have had to copy those stupid resumes hand written on plain paper, sometimes lined. I try my hardest to convince them to at least type it out. The other thing is the people who have a wonderfull(wonderful) resume but refuse to spend the extra 7 cents to get it copied on a nice linen paper, somthing (something)besides 20lb. bond. My resume is of course done professionally and on 100% watermarked linen. I even go as far as to make sure that the watermark is contained fully on the paper and preferaably twords (preferably, towards) the lower middle.
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I think you show very good judgment in having your resume' professionally prepared!!!!

Cav would have done this for you, but he's a little "laid back" this week. The real Cav shall return soon - we hope!!!!! :D:D:D
 
I think you show very good judgment in having your resume' professionally prepared!!!!

Cav would have done this for you, but he's a little "laid back" this week. The real Cav shall return soon - we hope!!!!! :D:D:D
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Yea, I can't say as I'm the best speller around, I have come to rely on the spell check in software too much. When I write a letter I do have one of the best spelling and grammer checkers around. I'll have to admit it's my mother, but she got her fisrt job in printing buy simply mailing the local newspaper back to them with all the corrections and typos circled on the fornt page. That was around 35-40 years ago and shes only gotten better. I myself and more of a printer than a layout person.
 
Originally posted by Tuba707

Wow, I have never seen so many typo-free (or at least typo-reduced) posts in a thread here. Good work, Cav :D
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Thanks Joel. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it. Did you notice I even have a couple of apprentice proofreaders hard at work for me? :D:D
 
Originally posted by GoodTurns

Just a follow-up on Cav's posting. Grammar and spelling are incredibly important when applying for one of those job things. I personally pitch any cover letter/resume that makes me cringe! Proper use and attention to details in your presentation will directly affect how you are perceived and what people will think you are capable of doing. Please do take it seriously!

I'm just glad their is never been nothing for Cav to get after me for!;)
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Lucky you ...

My company requires that each application be kept for a set period of time. I, and the manager of our residential program whose office is next to mine, circle all grammatical and spelling errors in the cover letter and turn them back in marked "This individual will not be considered." Nuff said!

[:X] Mrs.
 
Originally posted by MLKWoodWorking

Originally posted by GoodTurns

Just a follow-up on Cav's posting. Grammar and spelling are incredibly important when applying for one of those job things. I personally pitch any cover letter/resume that makes me cringe! Proper use and attention to details in your presentation will directly affect how you are perceived and what people will think you are capable of doing. Please do take it seriously!

I'm just glad their is never been nothing for Cav to get after me for!;)
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Lucky you ...

My company requires that each application be kept for a set period of time. I, and the manager of our residential program whose office is next to mine, circle all grammatical and spelling errors in the cover letter and turn them back in marked "This individual will not be considered." Nuff said!

[:X] Mrs.
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Actually, the correct spelling is Enough. The two word sentence fragment should be revised into a complete sentence for formal communications. :D[}:)];)
 
Originally posted by Russianwolf


Dario, I've been corrected by SWMBO. Appearently I have several GLARING errors to her eyes. First, my daughter was in school there in 1997-1998, not 2006 (so I was off by 10 years). Secondly, the classes were in fact conducted in English, but the students were allowed to speak tagalog outside of class. Whereas during her time in school this was not allowed (students were fined for speaking tagalog). They both attended a Catholic school and it was appearently much more strict during her "incarceration". ;)
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Mike,

Rules vary from school to school. Most (if not all) that I know of actually allow students to speak in Tagalog after each class. She must have attended a very expensive one. ;) Even University of the Philippines don't restrict Tagalog after each class.
 
Originally posted by ed4copies

...... how others percieve (i befroe E, EXCEPT after C-perceive)
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... or when the sound is 'ay' [:eek:)]

eg. Weigh, Deity. Many other exceptions too like 'vacancies' or 'science'

My spelling isn't great either, but some simple spoken words have got the better of me since I was a kid and I still can't shake them.[:I]

I always say ' fieth' instead on 'thief' and 'throf' instead of 'froth':(

A lot depends where you come from too, I think.
Using Cav's original post as an example, ( I wouldn't dare pick on Cav, but think he won't mind) I wouldn't have used the 'comma' before the 'and' unless there was any doubt to the meaning of the sentence.
I also would try to not use the same word more than once in the same sentence. Cav used 'post' several times. Although the sentence is correct, I had to read it twice to understand it.

Sorry Cav, please don't beat me up!!!!

BTW, what does (Caut mean?[}:)]
 
Bill, I will totaly agree with you, when I am applying for a job, trying to sell my pens, or making a presentation. And yes I have done all of them. But that is not what I am doing here. I am relaxing and enjoying the company of people with common interests. that is making pens not polishing my image. I will set around the house watching movies in my pajames, but will not go out in public that way. If suit and tie is what works for you as casual wear, by all means wear it. I will stick to my blue jeans and t shirt.
 
Two answers in one post.

Skippy, I have to agree that the word post was overused. I perhaps should have thrown in an occasional "epistle". :D

As regards the Caut, it was supposed to be (Caution, long and boring post). The software of the site just got tired of my long title and quit. ;)

Daniel, a few things come to mind. First, you have a name that is often abbreviated and you choose to sign as Daniel. To me this should indicate that you comprehend the idea that people display their name as they wish it to be used. If this is unintelligible to you, I will be more than happy to explain it further.

Second, I decided to take you at your word and clicked on your website. Obviously you chose to wear your pajamas while composing your site. Even though I haven't worn a suit and tie for the last few years, I rapidly burned out trying to count grammatical and construction errors.

Third, lest this be taken as an unfair attack on Daniel, I use it to make my original point. If you get in the habit of using the English language correctly, you won't butcher it when you try to use it in a formal manner.
 
I wonder about Cav's use in the above post of First, Second and Third to enumerate his points. I was taught to use Firstly, Secondly and Thirdly. In other words an adverb is used instead of Cav's adjective.
Our own particular use of grammar is a matter of what we learnt as our "mother tongue" and what we were taught as being correct in a more formal manner at school.
Exactly where do we draw the line with correctness? If we are really pedantic, as some of our our forumites indicate they are, then some applicants for jobs would never get a start, no matter how qualified or how competent they are. As an example I give you the case of migrants. Would a Brit or an Australian applying for a position in America be not considered because they use their countries' spelling in an application?

A little test, from which Cav is excluded. I would like you to answer this without recourse to the consultation of books.
What is the error in the following sentence and why?
Pardon me being helpful.
 
What you are pointing out R2, perhaps inadvertently, is the fact that there are differences between American, Australian and British.

To which verb would your adverbs "firstly, secondly and thirdly" be referring?

In American, listing by number is so widely accepted, it is programmed into Microsoft Word. You'd have to ask the Brits whether the Queen would approve.

In answer to your final query, your "sentence" is awkward. "Pardon me for being helpful" or "Pardon me, I was being helpful". As far as referencing the exact rules of grammar - I'm afraid those don't flow through my veins as they did when I was taking the SAT test in the mid 1960's. More surprisingly, I can't tell you the "long way" to find a square root, since the advent of the computer made the "mechanics" unneccesary. However, I can tell you the square root of 9 is still 3, no matter what method we use to get there.

Would that all questions had only ONE CORRECT answer - but they don't!:D:D
The American language changes yearly as more words are entered into our dictionaries, because of common use.

When I was in school, there was no "AWESOME" - Can you believe we managed to speak without it????
 
"f u cn rd ths u cn gt a gd job"
Used to be an add on the back of matchbooks. For shorthand note taking. There is something to be said about understanding the message rather than how well it was punctuated.
 
I interview folks regularly as part of my job. If the resume isn't professionally written, including grammar and spelling, I tell the candidate that they will be considered when they can present themselves professionally.

When I visit a website and am looking for a professional, I expect their site to reflect their attention to detail. Lack of attention on the website indicates that their may also be a lack of attention to my needs. While I may be able to understand the intent of the communicator, English (my native tongue) is a language which is becoming more precise, not less so. Lack of precision is an indicator of how seriously someone wants to be taken.

On a forum, like this, I often overlook the misspellings and incorrect word usage, but that is a conscious effort. I see the errors; I just don't point them out. It's my laziness that keeps me from helping others in this area. William takes his time to inject a little education with a fair share of humor and light-heartedness. I, for one, appreciate it.

Most folks here appreciate help with their turning, finishing, photography and more. Should we feel any different about someone offering assistance with language? As for the numerous languages spoken by folks on the forum, if there is a topic which is linguistically specific to other than your primary language, or if you find that such correction bothers you, might I suggest you move along to another post? We have hundreds of posts per day and sometimes thousands. Skipping a couple is not likely to cause any of us to lose sleep.
 
Not really Dawn,don't let him kid you unless you count Hieroglyphics.:D[}:)];).
Originally posted by PR_Princess

Originally posted by ed4copies


When I was in school, there was no "AWESOME" - Can you believe we managed to speak without it????
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Ed you mean to tell me there was language when you were in school???? [:0][:0][:0]
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Originally posted by wdcav1952

Originally posted by MLKWoodWorking

Originally posted by GoodTurns

Just a follow-up on Cav's posting. Grammar and spelling are incredibly important when applying for one of those job things. I personally pitch any cover letter/resume that makes me cringe! Proper use and attention to details in your presentation will directly affect how you are perceived and what people will think you are capable of doing. Please do take it seriously!

I'm just glad their is never been nothing for Cav to get after me for!;)
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Lucky you ...

My company requires that each application be kept for a set period of time. I, and the manager of our residential program whose office is next to mine, circle all grammatical and spelling errors in the cover letter and turn them back in marked "This individual will not be considered." Nuff said!

[:X] Mrs.
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Actually, the correct spelling is Enough. The two word sentence fragment should be revised into a complete sentence for formal communications. :D[}:)];)
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Hey goofball - ever heard of intentional misuse .. creative license .. etc etc ..
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Why don't you go write a book or do something useful ;)

[:X] Mrs.
 
I have been following this post and am a little bit bothered by how the new people that are just starting pen turning and need to ask a question and have a hard time with thier writing. I had a friend that was a had a power saw shop that was a superb saw mechanic, didn't find out until after he past away that he could not read or write, just good with numbers. I had a head injury and without the wifes help would not be able the write this so you can make it out but that does not effect making pens and other wood projects. There are still folks around that didn't make it through grade school that are more than a little bit bothered about the way they write and after reading this just might not ask the question that has them stoped. I am not looking for a job, just learning and helping out when I can. If you ask around you will find there are a lot of people that have not and never will make out a resume for a job, in some parts of the country and for some jobs it is not nessecary to do that. There is nothing wrong with Corecting some one in a fun way if people know what is going on. This is just my opinion from a different side of the coin.
Bob
 
After five pages of posts, I've decided to give my take on the matter.

Being a university professor, I am always reading and grading students' papers. Being in Teacher Education, I am preparing professional educators . . . which means, I allow for no margin of error. My students know that a paper with one grammatical or one spelling error disqualifies them from earning an "A" on that assignment. Two or more errors will result in a grade no higher than a "C". I'm preparing teachers . . . they're going to be teaching our children. My colleagues and I require that our students master Standard English. Every time I distribute a handout, pass out a test, present a PowerPoint presentation . . . I make certain there are no grammatical or spelling errors. As many of you know, two of my colleagues and I are in the process of finishing up our second book. You can bet your boots that there are no errors in that manuscript.

With that being said, many of you have seen my typos, grammatical errors, and sometimes, spelling errors in IAP. Heaven knows that Two Chops Mike and Cav have pointed those errors out to me on more than one occasion. That's their prerogative to offer corrections. It doesn't bother me one way of the other.

On the other hand, I never make corrections in another person's post. In my opinion, it's a matter of pragmatics. We talk and write differently depending on the situation that we face. When I'm at the university, talking with the president . . . I use one form of language. When I'm at home talking with my wife . . . I use another form of language. When I'm in IAP . . . I use another variation. My language and choice of words, depends on the particular social situation. When making posts in IAP, I feel there should be allowances made for grammatical and spelling errors.

Most importantly, another reason that I don't correct other IAP member's posts is that I do not want to interfere with what they are trying to say. Just because I happen to have a doctoral degree does not mean that I am better than anybody else . . nor does it mean that I am smarter than anybody else. It does not give me the right to correct other's grammar or spelling. Your grammar and spelling are part of who you are as a person. We all have a seat at the table in IAP. I do not want to make anybody feel unwelcome by correcting their spelling errors.

And that, is my two cents worth. :D
 
Here's my 2 cents.

Reading posts that have atrocious spelling and grammar drives me crazy.

I don't believe the thrust of this post is directed to people with disabilities. To me common sense should make that a given.

It's certainly interesting to me to read that some people think that this is a place to relax and forget about spelling and grammar because it's not a work place. I find it 'insulting'(sorry, can't think of another word) that posters don't give consideration to the people whom they are trying to convey a thought or idea.

I have frequently gone to the web site of people with poor writing skills and found that the spelling & grammar exhibited on the forum is also in evidence on their web site.

If one doesn't have a good education, I think they should go and get one. I don't have any idea what adult education is like in the US but here in BC, adults can take English, Math, and other subjects to obtain their grade 12 certificate. Poor English skills will impact the way one is viewed in the world. Bad spelling and grammar is not something to be proud of....or is that something of which to be proud?

My 2 cents....it's probably not even worth that.;)
 
Originally posted by DocStram


On the other hand, I never make corrections in another person's post. In my opinion, it's a matter of pragmatics. We talk and write differently depending on the situation that we face. When I'm at the university, talking with the president . . . I use one form of language. When I'm at home talking with my wife . . . I use another form of language. When I'm in IAP . . . I use another variation. My language and choice of words, depends on the particular social situation. When making posts in IAP, I feel there should be allowances made for grammatical and spelling errors.

Most importantly, another reason that I don't correct other IAP member's posts is that I do not want to interfere with what they are trying to say. Just because I happen to have a doctoral degree does not mean that I am better than anybody else . . nor does it mean that I am smarter than anybody else. It does not give me the right to correct other's grammar or spelling. Your grammar and spelling are part of who you are as a person. We all have a seat at the table in IAP. I do not want to make anybody feel unwelcome by correcting their spelling errors.

And that, is my two cents worth. :D
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Thank You DocStram. ;)
 
Igraduated from highschool hated eng. class loved math and I type with one finger.spelling was never high on my list and it shows.so what,didnt need spelling to earn a living so never improved it.like the man said you always have a choice, to read or not to read.
 
Jarhead and Ed, you have both given correct answers. Go to the top of the class!!This proves the point that, in some cases, there is no one correct answer. Cav may well have another answer.
As to which verbs my adverbs would refer Ed ,I take it to be the verb that follows the adverb. This may not be strictly correct usage in some minds, but after 60 years of having that usage reinforced I find using an adjective in the same position to be strange.
One problem with my method is that things become strange if you get to ,say, a twelfth point!
 
I am sure glad that this is a pen turning forum and not an english spelling and grammar forum. All I have learned here is that if you can't spell correctly or word your statement properly, you may not get an answer for the question which you originaly had from some people without an english lesson. I liked the gun thread better, and I didn't really like that one much. This whole thing, while sounding somewhat fun, does seem to feel a little uninviting to new members that may not be college proffessors or linguistic majors. I got through high school and survived through some college, but my strength was in using my hands and my mind to the best of my abilities. I like to turn pens and would like to ask some questions, but if this was my first day on this forum, it would probably be my last. Like it was previously said, you can't see ones expression while looking at a computer screen. So please excuse any mistakes that I have made in my little tirade here, but it is how I speak and write. My real schooling was at a little place called Beirut.
Semper Fi
 
My personal opinion is that I am not about to make excuses for any spelling or grammatical errors that I may make in a post.

I'm not coming to IAP to interview or apply for a job. If I make a mistake in a post, then it's my mistake and I don't need anybody to point out the error to me . . . especially in public.

I would hate for anybody to feel uncomfortable in IAP because of spelling or grammatical errors.
 
I would like to recant part of my previous statement. I grouped some people that are all different into a catagory and I shouldn't have. There are a lot of different people here and even though they may work in the same feild, they have different opinions. I did not mean to insinuate that everyone that works in the education feild is going to correct someone spelling or grammar errors. I just feel that the levels of education on this forum range from post-grads to some that do not have that. I am not the smartest person in the world, but I am good at what I do and if spelling is going to count for everything in life, I may as well sit it out....But I am not going to do that and neither is anyone that tries. I am here to learn about making pens better, not to learn how to write properly. This is supposed to be a fun thing and I am learning a lot from this forum about pens, my command of the english language will not change because I am not trying to change it, I am trying to make a better pen.
 
Originally posted by fritz64

Igraduated from highschool hated eng. class loved math and I type with one finger.spelling was never high on my list and it shows.so what,didnt need spelling to earn a living so never improved it.like the man said you always have a choice, to read or not to read.
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Hi, arn`t you glad we don`t have these bosses.To dismiss someone because he forgot to dot an I, Unbeleivible.., whatever you do i will not buy your products.. Carl
 
Jarhead, this particular forum is not specifically related to issues concerning pen making. This is the correct place to air and discuss issues of interest such as grammar and spelling, pet peeves, movies, dog problems. It is interesting that you have joined this discussion to huff and puff. This is exactly where you should do that.
 
Since I started this thread, I thought I would chime in once again. I must state that I do not look down on anyone here on the forum because of their use of the English language. (I specify English since that is the language used here.) I have the greatest admiration for those who speak and/or write more than one language. I simply cannot seem to learn more than a few words in Spanish, which helps slightly since I see many Spanish speaking inmates during the course of my work day. I also know that many of the members here are far better wood workers than I can ever hope to be.

If someone studies my corrections, they will plainly see that I do not correct everyone. I have a “no blood, no foul†agreement with Roy, Ed and Dawn, Mike and Linda and a few others. The idea has always been to make life on the forum a bit more fun. Hopefully it is taken that way by most. I admit that when someone gets under my skin a bit I may take a shot at them. That is a personality trait that likely needs all 9 grits of Micro Mesh. [:eek:)]

When those of use who interview, or in my case used to interview, talk of strict accuracy, that is just the way things are. If your tax preparer messed up by a couple of decimals, I’m sure that you might find that unacceptable as you faced an IRS auditor. But, hey, there is no need to be so precise now is there? Let us jump over to the work of a carpenter, a logger, a plumber, or any other field of work. Would it bother you if your carpenter didn’t quite get your new deck level? What if your tree surgeon dropped a tree on your house, but just a little bit? No problem, I’m sure, if your new shower does not drain properly.

As you hopefully see by now, accuracy is important in all walks of life. It is not a fair reaction to attack the importance I put on our language any more than it is to attack the need for accuracy in other facets of our lives. I have had private email “conversations†with members who do not use the language perfectly. We understand and respect each other. What does frustrate me is when someone posts in such a way that their meaning is simply impossible to interpret. There recently was a post on a subject that I know absolutely nothing about. I was glad to see the post, but could not understand it at all.

To finally end this epistle (Thanks to R2 ;)) we all strive for accuracy in what we find important. If we are not interested in improving our work, and hopefully ourselves, then there is little use for this forum. That’s it; I am through on this subject.
 
Originally posted by DocStram

With that being said, many of you have seen my typos, grammatical errors, and sometimes, spelling errors in IAP. Heaven knows that Two Chops Mike and Cav have pointed those errors out to me on more than one occasion. That's their prerogative to offer corrections. It doesn't bother me one way of the other.
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I want to put Al's statement in context. On a single occasion, and in a tongue-in-cheek manner, I corrected Al's grammar:

Originally posted by Proud_Poppa_of_2
Cav, I hope you don't mind my cleaning that one up. I know you look forward to spotting Doc's rare miscues. I normally let those things slide, being somewhat imperfect in that department myself. (Just because I hail from a Commonwealth and not a state doesn't mean the Almighty endowed me with perfect grammar.) But, it's been a slow day and I kinda needed something useful to do. Ed hasn't been much fun and I thought I might be able to stir up some trouble around here. Just say the word and I'll lay off Doc's next error, which probably won't happen until June, anyway.
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Other than that, I don't think I have corrected any person's grammar, spelling punctuation, etc. on these forums. Back on January 30, I started a thread (http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32950) expressing my disdain for the correction of posters' errors. I am not a proponent of the practice as I think it presumptuous.

As an aside, I am bemused by those who have commented in this thread about the disregard they show job applicants and others whose resumes, covers letters, web sites, etc. contain grammatical, spelling, and word usage errors. Each of those commentators has committed at least one such error of his or her own. Many of those errors have been committed in this very thread. I would be willing to bet most of these people would be unable to identify their errors without assistance. The moral, I guess, is that he who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.
 
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Is it fair that some employers and/or buyers judge you by your appearance and manner of speaking? In a word, no. Does it happen? Of course it does, and it always will. So, just like many of us are constantly striving to improve our pens, well you get the idea.
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Cav,

I don't see what is unfair about an employer or buyer forming opinions regarding a person from his appearance and manner of speaking. In a field where verbal and written communication requires precision, this sort of judgment is absolutely necessary. If my plumber splits infinitives, it will not affect his wrench work. Those of us who meet the public, should be refining our pens, our appearance, and our speaking. I need to constantly improve. The day I cease to improve (or at least desire to improve) is the day that life ceases to have meaning.

Regards,

Wade

Let's reserve for another post a discussion about improving our handwriting. Stepped on my own toes!:D[}:)]
 
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