Spelling police

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yeah; spell check. I was reviewing resumes at a University work shop; and this young man came up to me with his resume; and I asked what type of work he was looking for and he said "I want to be a Certified Public Accountant". I looked at his resume and right there on top the "Objective: To become a Certified Pubic Accountant" [:I]
I pointed it out to him; and he said NO ! ! ! I just mailed a copy to all of the Big 5 Accounting firms... [xx(]
 
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Originally posted by Texatdurango

You know, the spell checker is only half the battle. One still has to determine if the word being used is the proper word!
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Back in the day before spell checkers, we actually had to learn how to check the spelling the old fashion way. One of the tricks a typesetter would use is to read from the bottom up and from right to left. It's easier to spot a misspelled word when you are not reading a sentence.

30 years ago, I was given a task to design a program for a banquet. This was for a very prominent, well loved Doctor. A lot of doctors, surgeons and politicians where to attend. This was a really big shindig. Towards the end of this affair, the Doctor was to be awarded a plaque for his service. In the program there was a line that read "Presentation of Plaque"

I finished the design and typeset the program. Sent a copy to my boss for an approval and after his inspection he forwarded off the person in charge of the affair.

They liked the design and the job was approved. The next day it went to press and we shipped them to the customer.

About a week after the program, I get a package from the doctor that was being honored. I opened it up and it was a framed copy of the program and a little note that said, "Thanks for the chuckle."

Not really sure what he meant, I looked over the program again and then is when I noticed that I used a "g" instead of a "q" in the word plaque.
 
I have a moment , too ! Gee whiz , I thought they were ALL here to help us . Maybe I missed the literacy exam to become a member of the IAP . SPELL CHECK ? I don't even know where it is ! GOOGLE , slows down my computer , so I dumped GOOGLE ! Is that OK ? Yes it is . What does SPELLING have to do with making PENS ? And wanting to learn how ?
 
My kids used to ask me "WHY" I (or LOML) were strict about certain things including WHY we insisted on the correct spelling within context. We replied "We don't set the rules. Business Owners, Company Managers, Organizational requirements, People in charge who
- have certain standards that are demanded or required
- that deal with certain clientele
- know that one letter mistakes are critical
. . . these people set the rules. They have the right to reject you if you don't measure up to their standards. Would you want a substandard brain surgeon working on you? No! These people who hire and fire don't want to alienate others, cause mistakes that cost money because of one wrong letter." People who write with lots of mistakes are not usually disturbed with correct grammar or spellings, but people who do comply are irritated by those who don't. :D So the standard is usually the one that drives some customers away! Correct grammar and spelling does not drive people away; incorrect does!

One newly appointed prime minister of Japan once tried to greet Clinton by using English. Unfortunately for Japanese, the pronunciation for the word "How", when read, can be easily misconstrued and spoken in a sound similar to "Who". Therefore the PM greeted Clinton with "Whooo are you?

Pronunciations as well as spellings are critical in many ventures and the ones in charge have every right to demand correct spelling. If anyone does not want to conform to this strict spelling regiment, that is their perfect right. I have a nephew who does not conform and does well in his work. However, this kind of outlook must realize that they will limited in their job opportunities.

Having said all of that, I am not going to get into the debate as to whether high and strict standards are a necessity for this forum to exist in a friendly manner. I have my preferences but, IMO, it is a personal choice here.

How is this for spelling:
After WWII, Gen. MacArthur spent a good bit of time in Japan and the Japanese began to respond to him. It became known that his name was being mentioned within the US as a presidential candidate.

One Banner in Tokyo proudly proclaimed: "We play for your erection."
What a difference in swapping two letters around! Not "to" letters, not "too" letters but "two" letters.
 
Ever hear of live and let live? If you have some hang up over correct spelling, that is your burden to live with. I have my own.
 
I am the one who started this problem, and believe me, I regret it. If I could go back in time, people would still be selling Emporer pens instead of Emperor pens. I think people might note that I am much more circumspect in my corrections, usually only correcting friends who I know take it in the right spirit. Well, I do slip occasionally when someone uses bowel when they mean bowl, but I try to restrain myself.

Lee makes some excellent points. People who make decisions in the world will note incorrectly used language. That is simply a fact. Now, what does that have to do with posts on a pen turning site? On the surface there is little correlation. However, there is some small equivalence. The last time this subject came up, I was taken to task by a member who sells pens from his web site. He stated that he wished to relax while posting on the site and didn’t worry about his grammar and spelling. He further stated that when he wrote his web site, he took care to use correct grammar and spelling. I decided to visit his site. Oddly enough, it was full of the same errors as his “relaxed†posts. Now, again, what does this have to do with posts on the IAP? Nothing, if all you are doing is “talking†with friends online. When you step into the "real" world, however, mistakes can cause problems. A single letter or digit written wrong can cause a package to go astray. An incorrectly placed decimal can really cause problems with your bank account. Face it, accuracy is important.

The point I wished to make, and I think Lee was making is this: Good grammar and spelling does not offend people who do not care about grammar and spelling. Poor grammar and spelling offends those who do care about grammar and spelling. Lack of care in presentation of a site can make those who care about grammar and spelling wonder if there is the same lack of care in the products offered for sale.

Yes, I know that I have made this point repeatedly. I will not make it again. The grammar cop has retired his badge.
 
Hank, you example is excellent. Another story that illustrates the point happened when John F. Kennedy visited Berlin, Germany. He did not speak German but had a prepared phonetic speech he read to the crowd. Unfortunately, he mispronounced the phrase "I am a Berliner" and it came out, "I am a jelly doughnut".
 
Originally posted by DocStram

As incredulous as it may seem, spelling problems are not recognized as being an official Learning Disability. There are seven areas in which a person can be LD:
Basic Reading Skills (word recognition)
Reading Comprehension
Math Computation
Math Reasoning
Spoken Language
Written Expression
and
Listening Skills

As a professional in the field of Special Education I have always been at odds with other professionals who refuse to recognize spelling as a type of learning disability. When I work with someone who can't spell worth a flip, I tell them to let people know that they are "creative spellers".
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Al, it is my (layman's) theory that most of the grammatical and spelling errors we see here, and on other forums, can be directly traced back to grade school. Many never learned in the first place. By the time these people are in middle and higher grades, the basics of English are expected to be used and are no longer taught. I have seen this many times over the years when I would substitute teach in our local schools. What saddens me is that many people never seem to recognize their mistakes and live their lives using a hodge-podge of phonetic gibberish.
 
You know, there are getting to be too many damned prima donnas on the forum. I, for one, try to improve myself each day. If someone lets me know I am making a mistake, particularly when it is possible that I will look foolish in public, I appreciate it. I have typed Emperor incorrectly on more than one occasion and then, to make matters worse, I used copy and paste such that it was misspelled several times. If not for folks like William, I would look quite foolish to a number of my customers, particularly to one of my newest who is an English Professor at Penn State University. I understand that some folks have a difficult time with spelling and with grammar. They should be particularly pleased to have someone help them out. Instead, a few jerks decide that since it is a weakness of theirs, they choose to put down those who know better. As my daughter tells me, "The world is full of stupid people." And there are none so stupid as those who complain about someone trying to spread a little knowledge.
 
Up until now I have maintained a neutral position regarding "The Great Spelling Debate". However, after reading some of the comments in this thread, as well as the recent IAP discussion that criticized teachers and our public schools . . . I've decided to state my position.

What does spelling have to do with penmaking and being a member of IAP? Everything. It has everything to do with being a member of a civilized society . . . be it your church, a hunting club, IAP, and anything else that has to do with living in a civilized society. Communication is the key to our quality of life. Communication includes your spoken language, written expression, and ability to spell correctly.

It is my opinion, careless spelling is just another reflection of the "dumbing down of our society". It ranks right up there with guys at baseball games who refuse to take their hats off when the National Anthem is being sung. Want to know why our kids aren't learning? It's not their teachers ..... it's their parents who don't read, don't use critical thinking skills, don't challenge themselves in any sort of intellectual fashion and misspell words with reckless abandon.

Careless spelling is just another example of how our society and quality of life is spiraling downward.
 
Hi,well i should not say any thing,but maybe i should.I think the spell cops are right to a point.But do they have to correct you in front of the world,Do you not realize that every word typed here is for the world to see.Do a search on Google and see how many forum topics are there for all to read.Stop,think,would a teacher bring a student up to the front of the class and say HA! HA! (gotcha)You took about business and how important,well there is some thing else just as important it is called MANNERS,if you care that much,why not contact that person privately, I have. Carl
 
Originally posted by Texatdurango

Let's say a stranger in town asked if the drugstore was within walking distance and you replied "It's pretty fur down the road from here", some would challenge the spelling even though it's correct!
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I believe in these parts it is spelled "fer" e.g. "It's pretty fer down the road from here", :D[}:)];)
 
Scott, the writer of that piece sure took a convoluted route in an attempt to prove a pre-determined conclusion. Fortunately, he was honest enough to say, "In spite of the fact that it's also the correct way to say "I am a jelly donut," no adult German speaker could possibly have misunderstood Kennedy's meaning in context."
This would be a situation similar to when one of our members used the words "waist black" and another member, somehow, was able to translate that piece of butchered English into 'waste block'. Yes, slang and colloquillisms are used in conversation and are often understood by most others.
But, sorry, no brass ring today Scott.
 
Originally posted by DocStram

Want to know why our kids aren't learning? It's not their teachers ..... it's their parents who don't read, don't use critical thinking skills, don't challenge themselves in any sort of intellectual fashion and misspell words with reckless abandon.
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I hear what you are saying but I half disagree with you. It's the teachers, parents and the school system's fault.

Today, grade school teachers let many spelling errors go by because the child is supposed to feel good about themselves. They don't want to hurt the child's feelings and claim that it is better for the thier esteem. When my oldest started school, I thought this was a passing fad. She is graduating from HS today and I can see that this problem has gotten worse. So many kids today can't spell because they where never taught or corrected when they made mistakes. At least they feel good about themselves.

High school kids are being taught to pass a test that helps the school look like they are doing a good job. http://www.pde.state.pa.us/a_and_t/site/default.asp If a teacher deviates from preparing the student for this test they get reprimanded. I've heard teachers complain they are not allowed to teach their subject anymore. I have seen instances where forcing a student to take this test has been to the detriment of the student. I know of one science teacher that was fired because he dared to teach his kids how to be curious and explore.

Many parents are just to busy to teach their kids today. Sometimes both are busy working just to make ends meet. You can't blame them. They are trying to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads. Others believe the school system should do their job. You can't blame them either. They came from a time where teachers actually taught. My wife and I never missed a Parents/Teachers night and it looks like 95% of the parents work at night or believe the teachers are doing a good job.

There are a few teachers that will leave a good lasting impression on a student, and thank heavens for them. But there are too many teachers in our HS that are just waiting for retirement. "You Can't Get Me I Got Tenure"
 
Just look at what you are doing....again!!
This thread started off with:

"Have not posted here in a while... Was 100% turned off by the spelling police on every other post..."

and:

"Actually, we have long moved on past The Great Spulling Debate."

We are now into page four of 'moving on'!!!
 
Originally posted by fernhills

Hi,well i should not say any thing,but maybe i should.I think the spell cops are right to a point.But do they have to correct you in front of the world,Do you not realize that every word typed here is for the world to see.Do a search on Google and see how many forum topics are there for all to read.Stop,think,would a teacher bring a student up to the front of the class and say HA! HA! (gotcha)You took about business and how important,well there is some thing else just as important it is called MANNERS,if you care that much,why not contact that person privately, I have. Carl
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No, no, no, this just won't due.








Originally posted by fernhills

Hi,(Should be a space here.)well i should not say any thing,(Should be a space here.)but maybe i should.(should be a space here)I think the spell cops are right to a point.(Should be a space here.)But do they have to correct you in front of the world,(Is this a question or a statement? If it is a question perhaps proper punctuation would be in order.)Do you not realize that every word typed here is for the world to see.(Is this a question or a statement? If it is a question perhaps proper punctuation would be in order.)Do a search on Google and see how many forum topics are there for all to read.Stop,think,would a teacher bring a student up to the front of the class and say HA! HA! (gotcha)You took about business and how important,well there is some thing else just as important it is called MANNERS,(Should be a space here.)if you care that much,(Should be a space here.)why not contact that person privately, I have. Carl
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HA! HA! (gotcha) :D




I think we all need to lighten up a little.
(No Frank, this is not intended to be translated into "we all need to lose weight")



Edited to correct MY poor spelling and grammar! [8D]
 
Originally posted by markgum

yeah; spell check. I was reviewing resumes at a University work shop; and this young man came up to me with his resume; and I asked what type of work he was looking for and he said "I want to be a Certified Public Accountant". I looked at his resume and right there on top the "Objective: To become a Certified Pubic Accountant" [:I]
I pointed it out to him; and he said NO ! ! ! I just mailed a copy to all of the Big 5 Accounting firms... [xx(]
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So, did any of the secretaries make him an offer???[8D][8D]
 
Originally posted by Mudder

Originally posted by fernhills

Hi,well i should not say any thing,but maybe i should.I think the spell cops are right to a point.But do they have to correct you in front of the world,Do you not realize that every word typed here is for the world to see.Do a search on Google and see how many forum topics are there for all to read.Stop,think,would a teacher bring a student up to the front of the class and say HA! HA! (gotcha)You took about business and how important,well there is some thing else just as important it is called MANNERS,if you care that much,why not contact that person privately, I have. Carl
Click to expand...


No, no, no, this just won't due.








Originally posted by fernhills

Hi,(Should be a space here.)well i should not say any thing,(Should be a space here.)but maybe i should.(should be a space here)I think the spell cops are right to a point.(Should be a space here.)But do they have to correct you in front of the world,(Is this a question or a statement? If it is a question perhaps proper punctuation would be in order.)Do you not realize that every word typed here is for the world to see.(Is this a question or a statement? If it is a question perhaps proper punctuation would be in order.)Do a search on Google and see how many forum topics are there for all to read.Stop,think,would a teacher bring a student up to the front of the class and say HA! HA! (gotcha)You took about business and how important,well there is some thing else just as important it is called MANNERS,(Should be a space here.)if you care that much,(Should be a space here.)why not contact that person privately, I have. Carl
Click to expand...


HA! HA! (gotcha) :D




I think we all need to lighten up a little.
(No Frank, this is not intended to be translated into "we all need to lose weight")



Edited to correct MY poor spelling and grammar! [8D]
Click to expand...

Thanks, you made my point. Carl
 
We are hilarious! Gawd, I love this place!! We're onto 5 pages of rehashing "The Great Spelling Debate" and it doesn't look like it's about to come to an end. I make a motion that the Acceptable Use Policy be revised as follows:

Discussions of politics, religion, and spelling are not allowed. ;):D
 
Hey, Doc...you'd better include word selection, grammar and intelligible sentence/paragraph structure while you're at it. [8D]
 
Originally posted by DCBluesman

Hey, Doc...you'd better include word selection, grammar and intelligible sentence/paragraph structure while you're at it. [8D]
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All of which I would fail miserably at [8D]
 
Originally posted by DocStram


We are hilarious! Gawd, I love this place!! We're onto 5 pages of rehashing "The Great Spelling Debate" and it doesn't look like it's about to come to an end. I make a motion that the Acceptable Use Policy be revised as follows:

Discussions of politics, religion, and spelling are not allowed. ;):D
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Doc,

YOU, of all people, should CERTAINLY know that we cannot debate the merits of YOUR motion, while we are engaged in debating in the great "Spelling Debate". So, just sit back and relax. We can (if you can find a second for your motion), engage in debate on YOUR issue as soon as we have DEFINITELY RESOLVED the "Spelling debate" issue, currently on the floor.

I might recommend, you will have time to buy the chair a beer, which MAY also elevate the standing of YOUR motion, so there is more motion on your motion after the debate on the debate is complete.

GOT IT????????

GOOD!! Now, get my beer!!!


THANK-YOU!
 
Originally posted by fernhills



Thanks, you made my point. Carl
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While some folks feel it is bad manners to publicly correct the spelling and grammar mistakes of others there are also those who feel that it is also bad manners to subject your fellow forum members to such poor spelling, grammar and punctuation. I guess it has a lot to do with what side of the fence you find yourself on. I'm also quite sure that someone will chime in with "If you don't like what I have to say you don't have to read it". And for that my reply would be "right back at ya!"


Have a sparkling day! :)
 
Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA

Originally posted by DocStram

Want to know why our kids aren't learning? It's not their teachers ..... it's their parents who don't read, don't use critical thinking skills, don't challenge themselves in any sort of intellectual fashion and misspell words with reckless abandon.
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I hear what you are saying but I half disagree with you. It's the teachers, parents and the school system's fault. ...
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I've tried to stay out of this, but as an educator who once taught in the public school system (and as the spouse of someone who still does) I just can't hold my tongue... er, fingers any longer. I agree with both of you actually, but from a slightly different angle. It IS the parent's fault, primarily, and the schools don't help much. But how can they? If the parents do not and will not hold their child accountable, how can the school system? I saw it with my students 20 years ago and I see it with LOML's nearly everyday... only it has gotten worse! Parents have to hold their children accountable. By and large teachers ARE teaching. Yes, there are a few who shouldn't be in the profession, but that's equally true of all professions. It's just that the few we have in the fields of teaching and let's say law enforcement have more visibility. I was one of those who didn't belong in law enforcement and after 3 years I recognized it and got out of the field. Granted I never over stepped my bounds, but it was clearly not the field for me. I just didn't have the "right stuff". But back to teaching. Anybody can stand up before a group of students and impart information, but this isn't teaching. And I can (and have) taught tried and proven teaching techniques to hundreds of would be educators. Does that mean that they can teach? Not in the slightest. Some imparters of information get lucky once in a while and actually reach a student. But a real teacher does it daily. It is a gift. Show me someone who is truly passionate about their field and I'll show you someone who can truly teach (given the tools, of course). Sorry for the rabbit chasing, but this is a subject near and dear to my heart. Anyway, learners have to be held accountable for there incation, as is usually the case. All too often the kids today just don't give a crap. They'd rather not do their work and then cry to mom & dad that the mean ol' teacher is picking on them. So again, how can the school system hold the student accountable for their own learning (or at least the attempt at learning) if parents won't?;)
 
I have read this post from front to back,you know what I have learned from it?Nothing!Not one thing!I will tell you in a nutshell what is wrong with kids and their learning to spell or anything else.It is discipline(punishment inflicted by way of correction and training),for those of you who don't really understand what that means.I have two kids in public school and I can say from what I have seen it is NOT the school system,or teachers that is causing kids to be the way they are,it is the parents.My kids know that,if they mess up,there will be a nice black leather belt waiting on them,and there won't be any time out crap.Well,o.k. time out WHACK.I see how parents are every day,how they baby them and tell them it's o.k.Well it is'nt o.k.A lot of parents don't believe in spanking their kids.Well I have seen how those who are'nt disciplined turn out,going into schools and killing kids.If I had done something like that(or even thought about it) I had better kill myself,if not my Dad would have done it.I don't think for one minute he would even hesitate to kill me dead for something like that.Sounds bad,but that's the way he is.And another thing,I was always taught that I am responsible for my actions and nobody else is.Everybody wants to blame someone else for their troubles.How about taking a step back and looking at yourself.O.k back to spelling.I mostly overlook spelling errors and keep reading,not really a big deal.Let's all make pens and marvel at how nice they are and forgive each other for our spelling mistakes.It makes me think no less of someone when they don't spell something right,it makes me remember we are all human.AND WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES.

Ronald
 
Originally posted by rdunn12

I have read this post from front to back,you know what I have learned from it?Nothing!Not one thing!
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There is a whole lot to learn from this thread. It's called "tolerance". The common bond that holds us together is our passion for penmaking. Tolerance of other's views and beliefs is what keep us from falling apart.
 
Originally posted by DocStram

Originally posted by rdunn12

I have read this post from front to back,you know what I have learned from it?Nothing!Not one thing!
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There is a whole lot to learn from this thread. It's called "tolerance". The common bond that holds us together is our passion for penmaking. Tolerance of other's views and beliefs is what keep us from falling apart.


Did you read the last part of my post Doc?
Quote:"We are all human.AND WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES."

Pretty tolerant(Inclined to tolerate the beliefs, practices, or traits of others)if you ask me.All I am saying is let's see some pens and forget this mess.
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Originally posted by alamocdc

Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA

Originally posted by DocStram

Want to know why our kids aren't learning? It's not their teachers ..... it's their parents who don't read, don't use critical thinking skills, don't challenge themselves in any sort of intellectual fashion and misspell words with reckless abandon.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying but I half disagree with you. It's the teachers, parents and the school system's fault. ...
Click to expand...

I agree with both of you actually, but from a slightly different angle. It IS the parent's fault, primarily, and the schools don't help much.

snip

By and large teachers ARE teaching. Yes, there are a few who shouldn't be in the profession, but that's equally true of all professions. It's just that the few we have in the fields of teaching and let's say law enforcement have more visibility.
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I believe the three of us are on the same page, we're just expressing our views differently. I'm confidant that if we sat together around a kitchen table we would all be in agreement.

There is one thing I'd like to add. You mentioned that there are a few who shouldn't be in the profession, but that's equally true of all professions. </u>

I totally agree with this, but all professions are not teaching our youth. I feel we should hold people who are teaching our children to a higher level.
 
Originally posted by rdunn12

I have read this post from front to back,you know what I have learned from it?Nothing!Not one thing!I will tell you in a nutshell what is wrong with kids and their learning to spell or anything else.It is discipline(punishment inflicted by way of correction and training),for those of you who don't really understand what that means.I have two kids in public school and I can say from what I have seen it is NOT the school system,or teachers that is causing kids to be the way they are,it is the parents.My kids know that,if they mess up,there will be a nice black leather belt waiting on them,and there won't be any time out crap.Well,o.k. time out WHACK.I see how parents are every day,how they baby them and tell them it's o.k.Well it is'nt o.k.A lot of parents don't believe in spanking their kids.Well I have seen how those who are'nt disciplined turn out,going into schools and killing kids.If I had done something like that(or even thought about it) I had better kill myself,if not my Dad would have done it.I don't think for one minute he would even hesitate to kill me dead for something like that.Sounds bad,but that's the way he is.And another thing,I was always taught that I am responsible for my actions and nobody else is.Everybody wants to blame someone else for their troubles.How about taking a step back and looking at yourself.O.k back to spelling.I mostly overlook spelling errors and keep reading,not really a big deal.Let's all make pens and marvel at how nice they are and forgive each other for our spelling mistakes.It makes me think no less of someone when they don't spell something right,it makes me remember we are all human.AND WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES.

Ronald
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While I may agree with you about nobody is willing to be responsible for their actions, you scare the hell out of me when I read your thoughts about corporal punishment.

There are studies that show show that when kids are subject to abuse at home, they in turn abuse their children and others as well.

I think you should accept responsibility for your actions.
 
I agree with Ron, that is probably the most frightening thing I've ever read here.

Our 17 year old son has made more mistakes than I care to count, including totaling 2 cars, but he has never been spanked or otherwise physically abused. He just finished his junior year in high school with a 4.0 GPA, 99th percentile on ACT and SAT tests, already has 18 college credits. Should I kill him if he wrecks another car?
 
Originally posted by gerryr

I agree with Ron, that is probably the most frightening thing I've ever read here.

Our 17 year old son has made more mistakes than I care to count, including totaling 2 cars, but he has never been spanked or otherwise physically abused. He just finished his junior year in high school with a 4.0 GPA, 99th percentile on ACT and SAT tests, already has 18 college credits. Should I kill him if he wrecks another car?
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I thought this was the great spulling debate;):D[8D]
 
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I was not talking about abusing kids.That is not how it was meant at all.I was simply saying that when they know that there are no consequences for the actions they take they seem to have less respect for authority.If they know there are consequences they tend to think a little harder about what they are about to do before they do it.Sorry,it really was'nt meant to sound the way it did.Maybe I should have stepped back and really looked at it before posting.My bad guys.
 
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