Scary Health Bill proposal

[snowman56]

I don't know if any of you have been keeping up with the proposed health care bill, but this is what is supposedly on it right now. It seems pretty extreme and scary to me. What do you think?
This person has been reading the 1000 page house bill and posting it at
Twitter. You decide. http://healthcarehorserace.com/activism/07282009/rep-conyers-sees-no-need-to-read-health-care-bill/

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS
that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what
treatments and benefits you get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC
benefits for you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens,
illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances
and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your banks'
accounts for election funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in
unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating a HC Exchange to bring private HC plans
under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC plans
in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will
ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic-appropriate services.
Example: Translation for illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups (i.e., ACORN & Americorps)
to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels for Plans. #AARP members - your
health care will be rationed.

PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid-eligible individuals will be
automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No
"judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you
can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST automatically enroll employees into pub
opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for health care for part-time
employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY employer with a payroll of $400k and above who does
not provide pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & 400k who don't
provide pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according
to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual
taxes. (Americans will pay)

Pg 195 HC Bill - Officers and employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have
access to ALL Americans' financial and personal records.

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be
treated as tax" Yes, it says that.

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for
Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors will all be paid the same, regardless of
what specialty you have.

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of doctor's time, professional judgment,
etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131 Govt mandates and controls productivity for private HC
industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental and purchase of power driven
wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. Treatment of certain cancer hospitals. Cancer patients:
welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what it deems
preventable readmissions.

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission
that results in a readmission will be penalized by the Govt.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells doctors
what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating
hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT
community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg335 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome-based
measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans,
HMOs, etc. Forcing peeps into Govt plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people.!
WTF. My sis has down syndrome!!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory
Committee. Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think
Senior Citizens end of life

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills,
durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of
life resources, guiding you in death. Excuse me???!?!?!?

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The
Govt has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "advance care planning consult" will be used
frequently as patient's health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "Advance care consultation" may include an ORDER for
end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end
of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will
have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello,
ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. One monthly payment
to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means
they will insert Govt into your marriage

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining,
creating, rationing those same services.

WELCOME TO THE NEW AMERICA!!!!!

 

[USAFVET98]

Sounds like the start of a communist nation to me????!!!!!!

 

[dfurlano]

This person has been reading the 1000 page house bill and posting it at
Twitter. You decide. http://healthcarehorserace.com/activ...lth-care-bill/

That's great a guy that twitters. Then you say you decide and put up a right wing web site. You know people should take the time to get informed make there own decisions. But somehow that just does not happen.

 

[Wheaties]

Can't imagine this thread will last real long, but what are people thinking?!?!?!?! If you want that crap, go to Europe! Ask them how it's working out (just a hint: BAD!). I'm not saying our system is perfect, but it's the best in the WORLD!

Welcome the the USSA!

 

[Texatdurango]

Can't imagine this thread will last real long, but what are people thinking?!?!?!?! If you want that crap, go to Europe! Ask them how it's working out (just a hint: BAD!). I'm not saying our system is perfect, but it's the best in the WORLD!

Welcome the the USSA!

Actually it should stay! This is a VERY SERIOUS issue that everyone needs to know about since everyone here will be affected by it. I realize that politics is a "No-No" on the forum but if the discussion can be kept on the topic itself and the childish quips, cute comments (Welcome the the USSA), and political rhetoric kept out, this might be an informative thread.

 

[rjwolfe3]

That's great a guy that twitters. Then you say you decide and put up a right wing web site. You know people should take the time to get informed make there own decisions. But somehow that just does not happen.

So rather then comment on what the actual quotes are from the Health Care bill, you would rather slander right wingers? For the record I am an independent but even I can see that this is not something that I want in my future. But unfortunately it is coming and I am not sure we can stop it.

 

[jleiwig]

So rather then comment on what the actual quotes are from the Health Care bill, you would rather slander right wingers? For the record I am an independent but even I can see that this is not something that I want in my future. But unfortunately it is coming and I am not sure we can stop it.

I think that the point is that there has not been any official bill available to anyone, so the above quoted references are from someone who either leaked the information from one of the sub commitees working on their version of the bill, or could just be made up crap as I'm certain that some of those things posted will not be passed in any form what so ever.

The house still has to agree on a final version of the bill, which will be different than any other including the senate version, so DFurlano is correct in what he states. Once the house agrees on their version they will go into commitee with the senate to come up with a general bill that they both can agree on, which only then can be passed onto the president to sign into law if he so chooses. Something that someone receives in email is not the word of law, just blathering crap until the president signs the bill into law.

So as he states...You need to research for yourself what is going on and what is at stake before believing something from a website be it right wing conservative or mr. lefty liberal. Anyone who takes the word of a website without actually reading the actual document does themselves and their country a disservice. Which as he points out is the American way.

 

[igran7]

I'm not saying this is the absolute solution, but what we currently have is clearly not working! There are millions of (Citizens) who currently do not have insurance because they simply can't afford it. I am a single father with a 16 year old son and I pay close to $500 a month for our insurance through my employer, plus a $750.00 deductable for each of us, plus a $30.00 co-pay for each doctor visit (the co-pay doesn't count toward the deductable) and then the insurance covers 80% of the bill. So even if I never visit the doctor in a one year period I am $6000.00 out of pocket.

There are millions of Americans who can't afford to do this, at least this proposed bill has folks thinking about healthcare...something we should have done long before it got this bad.

 

[jleiwig]

If you want that crap, go to Europe! Ask them how it's working out (just a hint: BAD!). I'm not saying our system is perfect, but it's the best in the WORLD!

Welcome the the USSA!

Actual we rank first in healthcare spending and 37th in actual health of people out of all developed nations according to the World Health Organization. Care to rephrase the Europe comment?

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

 

[mickr]

Can't imagine this thread will last real long, but what are people thinking?!?!?!?! If you want that crap, go to Europe! Ask them how it's working out (just a hint: BAD!). I'm not saying our system is perfect, but it's the best in the WORLD!

Welcome the the USSA!

Where did you get the info that our system is the best in the world? By what criteria? Most $ spent? Highest cost per person? Lowest death rate? (not even close) Best child health & least mortality? Not even close again....maybe more research is needed?

 

[Wheaties]

Anyone who takes the word of a website without actually reading the actual document does themselves and their country a disservice. Which as he points out is the American way.

Exactly. Although it's not evening reading to go through a 1000 page bill that's not available. Can you imagine the number of voters we could weed out if you had to pass a very simple three question "test" to vote. I'd say it would cut the people able to vote in HALF. That's just how uneducated (no matter what view you hold) this country is (or is getting).

 

[Wheaties]

Actual we rank first in healthcare spending and 37th in actual health of people out of all developed nations according to the World Health Organization. Care to rephrase the Europe comment?

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

I never said "health of people". Because yeah, we suck at that. We are the fattest nation on the planet. But we do have the best (not perfect) system.

Did you see the article that came out a couple days ago about 10% of all health care spending stems from obesity. That's $147 billion

 

[Wheaties]

Where did you get the info that our system is the best in the world? By what criteria? Most $ spent? Highest cost per person? Lowest death rate? (not even close) Best child health & least mortality? Not even close again....maybe more research is needed?

Then why do people from all across the world come here for medical reasons?

 

[Wheaties]

Actually it should stay! This is a VERY SERIOUS issue that everyone needs to know about since everyone here will be affected by it. I realize that politics is a "No-No" on the forum but if the discussion can be kept on the topic itself and the childish quips, cute comments (Welcome the the USSA), and political rhetoric kept out, this might be an informative thread.

Yeah, sorry. I can get carried away at times. Especially we I feel so strongly about something (as most of us would).

 

[jleiwig]

I never said "health of people". Because yeah, we suck at that. We are the fattest nation on the planet. But we do have the best (not perfect) system.

Did you see the article that came out a couple days ago about 10% of all health care spending stems from obesity. That's $147 billion

We don't have the best system or we would have the best health. The two are not mutually exclusive. You can't be the best at something without having the best outcomes, it's just not possible bro.

Obesity doesn't even register on the radar of insurance companies. Otherwise they would spend more on it, but it's an afterthought because of the stigmas attached to obesity. If obesity was treated as any other disease, then we would have a chance against it.

However as long as we ingest processed food stuffed with fillers, extenders, modifiers, and other unhealthy things that you cannot even pronounce on the label, things will not change. No one wants to pay the price for high quality food free of junk, using all natural ingredients.

 

[Gary Max]

Why do Americans cross the border north every day to get thier meds---drugs that keep them alive. I know a person who's life depends on over $5k per mnonth in drugs---just to stay alive----how does that make any sense????
I think someone needs to jump in and take control.

 

[Wheaties]

Alright, I done with this. I just get too fired up. Especially having to type everything. I guess we'll just see how it plays out, and when things go south in 10 years, then we'll know.

 

[ed4copies]

AS I UNDERSTAND IT!!!

There are currently two bills in the House and one bill being developed in the Senate.

They are 1000 pages long and our 'representatives" rarely read what they vote on (their staffs do--well, should)

Interestingly this is being referred to as the "Obama" plan, yet he is allowing the congress to write whatever THEY want, in hopes of getting SOMETHING passed.

So, don't panic yet. Yes the "paying" part of healthcare needs reform. And since we are paying for everything under the sun, what's a few trillion more over the next decade?

Perhaps there IS a better way, somewhere between what we have now and socialized medicine. They MAY find it ---- or not.

 

[Russianwolf]

I've sat here and wrote a dozen responses and deleted them all. Several members of the site have met me and my wife. They know how much I love her and know about her health. This is a topic that is very close to my heart.

Will this legislation be flaw? Yes, we have a bunch of guys in Washington that couldn't agree on the color of a sheet of paper, much less anything else. I hate Washington politics. But something needs to be done on this issue.

My wife is dying. I don't know exactly how long she has left, the doctors don't either. It could be 10 years, or it could be 6 months. But her condition will eventually kill her. She didn't choose to be ill, It happened as a result of a surgery to fix another problem. What we know is that at this point there is no way to fix the damage, and that she will be in constant pain for the rest of her life.

A couple years ago, I was laid off. At the time, we couldn't afford to pay the bills and go on Cobra, so we wound up without insurance. we didn't qualify for medicare/medicaid because I had already made too much money that year, and we owned two cars outright even though one wasn't drivable. I worried every night about my wife. It took me over six months to find work that offered insurance again, and then, since my wife had a preexisting condition we weren't allowed to make a claim on her for another 6 months. I had to pay all her medications out of cash and we had to forgo appointments that she should have had. After a year and a half I was laid off again. This time, I insisted we get Cobra for her (I declined for myself) so that we could at least keep up with things until our savings ran out. I was lucky and found work quicker this time. And even though we are still struggling today, we are okay.

For those that are so against a mandatory health insurance plan, Don't think about yourselves, think about the one you love the most needing insurance and not having it for whatever reason. That's why we need this. If we are "All In" then each person pays a smaller amount than if only the people who need it are in the group. And when you or one you love needs it, it's there.

 

[oldsmokey]

The original post is accurate. The bill has been public for a few weeks.
The House Commerce and Finance Committee is debating the bill today and it could be sent to the house floor today. The bill could be changed by the committee.
I have one question. How many people travel from here to Canada or Europe for health care. I am always hearing about someone from Canada coming here for health care because of the very slow and regulated health care in Canada.
For those of you that feel you can't do anything about pending bills, think again.
CALL YOU REPERSENATIVES AND SENATORS. Tell them what you think about any bills they are voting on. If enough people call on one side of the issue they will change thier vote.
White house comment line 202 456-1111
Congress swithboard line 202 224-3121

 

[hewunch]

The insurance companies cooked their own goose. I have said it for a while. GWB proposed that people should be able to form groups outside of work. Like civic organizations, churches etc. To purchase group insurance and make pools. But they lobbied against it and now we are over correcting the other way. I am personally doubtful the government will help our already screwy system.

Now as far as the health of our nation, lets look at life span. Lets look at access. My mom has a friend in Australia, he had to wait months for a heart stint. Something we can get here in a matter of hours. Frequently with nationalized health care there is rationing. They will only do x# of bypasses a year, x# of cancer treatments, etc.

oh and BTW my insurance tab $1333 a month for a family of 4 because I am a cancer survivor and can't get group health insurance because in the government's eyes I am self employed. My families insurance is an HSA with a 3K deductible, mine is $500 then 80/20 so I feel the pain of high insurance.

 

[rjwolfe3]

Mike, I do feel for your situation and I am sorry that you wife has to go through this illness but you do realize that with a nationlized health care there is a very good chance that your wife would have to be put on a waiting list before she would even be treated. At this current point in time you can choose the doctor of your choice with the treatment plan of your choice. You may have to pay more out of your own pocket but your wife does not have to wait to get treatment. Do I think that our current health care professionals charge too much, hell yes but I also feel the same about lawyers and other professionals.

As far as the health of our nation - that is our own fault not the health care people. Most of us do not take care of own bodies myself included. We shove whatever food we want into our mouths, we don't excercise, we don't get proper sleep, and we tend to indulge in things that we shouldn't. Is that the health care systems fault and should we then turn to the government and expect them to fix the mess that we created?

It's the same with debt problems in our society. Most of us buy on credit and try to live above our means and when the money is due we want to turn to the government for help. And we all know where that leads.

I believe that there is a problem with our health care system but I don't think we should leave it in the governments hands to fix it. And no I don't have an alternative solution. I wish I did but I'm not that smart. I just want to be able to have a choice of insurance and a choice about where I take my family for health care rather then the government tell me where to go.

 

[Russianwolf]

I have one question. How many people travel from here to Canada or Europe for health care. I am always hearing about someone from Canada coming here for health care because of the very slow and regulated health care in Canada.

Don't know, but there are quite a few that go to Cananda in order to fly to Cuba for healthcare since it's MUCH cheaper than here (free for Cuban citizens/ex-pats).

 

[Russianwolf]

Mike, I do feel for your situation and I am sorry that you wife has to go through this illness but you do realize that with a nationlized health care there is a very good chance that your wife would have to be put on a waiting list before she would even be treated. At this current point in time you can choose the doctor of your choice with the treatment plan of your choice. You may have to pay more out of your own pocket but your wife does not have to wait to get treatment. .

Only if you can afford to pay. When you are without insurance, and can't afford to pay the fees, you are on the ultimate wait list. I've been there and done it.

Heck, call any insurance company that you like right now. Tell them you have a preexisting heart condition and are willing to pay ANY amount for coverage to be able to get treatment for that condition right away. See what they tell you. You have to wait six months without a claim for the condition in order for them to pick it up. A six month waiting list even if you can AFFORD insurance.

Unfortunately, in my wife's case, there is no viable treatment at present. Some experimental things, but they provide only temporary relief, and we are avoiding narcotics for the obvious reasons.

 

[igran7]

I believe that there is a problem with our health care system but I don't think we should leave it in the governments hands to fix it. And no I don't have an alternative solution. I wish I did but I'm not that smart. I just want to be able to have a choice of insurance and a choice about where I take my family for health care rather then the government tell me where to go.

From what I understand the proposed health care plan states that an individual can keep their current employer based or private health care plan if they so choose. The government option is just that, an option. I don't know about any of you folks, but I don't think competition is a bad thing when it comes to this.

The insurance execs are part of the top 2% that will have to pay higher taxes if this bill is passed. For that matter so are the media personnel reporting the story. It is in their best interest to want this bill to fail and the only way it can is if they convice enough of us that it is a bad bill for the country. The bottom line is the proposed plan will not be mandatory except for business owners with over 13 employees who do not offer another option. If anyone of us doesn't like the plan then we can always stick with our current plan or shop for a better deal. Whats wrong with that?

 

[jleiwig]

From what I understand the proposed health care plan states that an individual can keep their current employer based or private health care plan if they so choose. The government option is just that, an option. I don't know about any of you folks, but I don't think competition is a bad thing when it comes to this.

The bottom line is the proposed plan will not be mandatory except for business owners with over 13 employees who do not offer another option. If anyone of us doesn't like the plan then we can always stick with our current plan or shop for a better deal. Whats wrong with that?

Refreshing to see someone post something well thought out, and not just repeated blather from another source (with editing). Kudos to you sire! :biggrin:

My only question is will they finally allow the government to negotiate with drug manufacturers to lower prices to what other countries are paying for the same drugs? Or will they keep them artificially high like they are trying in spite of the best efforts of Wal-Mart and other discount chains who have lowered the price of some generics ridiculously low.

 

[jdoug5170]

This list does a great job of showing what one person finds to be negative about the proposed plan. I don't agree with many of the issues to be offensive or negative.

Being a person without medical coverage for over 15 years and needing medical care that I cannot afford, I will welcome a plan that allows me to regain some health and live in less day to day pain.

 

[Russianwolf]

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens,
illegal or otherwise

Well, decided to take a look and see what I could. It's hard to follow since the Author uses sections on only a couple of the references and pages (which are dependent on your computer, etc.) for the others, but I was able to find this one easily.

Copy of the legislation From the Library of Congress http://thomas.loc.gov/

SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.

(a) In General- Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.
(b) Implementation- To implement the requirement set forth in subsection (a), the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall, not later than 18 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, promulgate such regulations as are necessary or appropriate to insure that all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act are provided (whether directly or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements) without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.

That's a rather long stretch of a non-discrimination clause.

 

[ed4copies]

From what I understand the proposed health care plan states that an individual can keep their current employer based or private health care plan if they so choose. The government option is just that, an option. I don't know about any of you folks, but I don't think competition is a bad thing when it comes to this.

The insurance execs are part of the top 2% that will have to pay higher taxes if this bill is passed. For that matter so are the media personnel reporting the story. It is in their best interest to want this bill to fail and the only way it can is if they convice enough of us that it is a bad bill for the country. The bottom line is the proposed plan will not be mandatory except for business owners with over 13 employees who do not offer another option. If anyone of us doesn't like the plan then we can always stick with our current plan or shop for a better deal. Whats wrong with that?

Joe,

The difficulty is, if the government offers you insurance, only if your employer does NOT, WHY would employers continue to offer insurance??

Do you realize this is a cost of employment that raises the employers' overhead and makes their products LESS COMPETITIVE on the world market? So, if they shift this burden to the government, their products become less costly.

Now, this MAY have the effect of raising employment (reducing the record unemployment rate) or employers may automate, further reducing costs (robots never call in sick and they don't NEED health insurance).

We live in a changing world. Be flexible-don't FEAR change, or you will be permanently unemployed.

Now, if I just had more confidence in the guys making these policies.........

 

[rjwolfe3]

From what I understand the proposed health care plan states that an individual can keep their current employer based or private health care plan if they so choose. The government option is just that, an option. I don't know about any of you folks, but I don't think competition is a bad thing when it comes to this.

Joe,
Do you honestly think the government will stop at that? If this passes, I can promise you that in my lifetime all health care will be government run. If you have no problem with that and you think our government (either political side) does a great job of running things then I feel for you.

I don't understand why they even need this. If you are poor then health insurance is provided for you. If you work for a living then health insurance is available for a fee. If you are self employed then health insurance is available for a little more money. If you are rich you have no need for health insurance.

The truth of the matter is we need to be more reliant on ourselves and less on the damn government. Having said that, I am in no ways near that goal. But that is my fault not the government, not my family and certainly not the rich guy who busted his butt to get where he is at. I am lazy as I know that a lot of Americans are. We want things handed to us and we want things now. Our health care problems are the same as our debt problems and the government should have no say in either one.

 

[wudnhed]

We live in CA next to our southern border, Baja California which is Mexico. The town of Algodones is about 45 miles east of us across the border but before you get to Yuma AZ. Our Imperial Valley and Yuma valley become swelled with winter visitors during Oct thru April. A good majority of them come from Canada. The little town of Algodones goes from about 5000 permanent residents to 35,000 - 50,000 visitors walking across the border everyday. They are coming to get their drugs, dental, optical and anything else you can think of because of the prices they have to pay in their own country. You can get most of the drugs across the counter with no prescription. If you go at the right time the line is short coming back to the states, if not the line can be 3 to 5 blocks long. I am not exaggerating, this goes on day in and day out for about 6 months out of the year. I go down there to get my own teeth worked on and pick up medicine that I wouldn't be able to afford here. Customs will only let you bring back a 3 month supply so the snowbirds (winter visitors) are making several trips during their stay to stock up for the summer months or get their medical visits out of the way before they return to their homes.

 

[rjwolfe3]

Refreshing to see someone post something well thought out, and not just repeated blather from another source (with editing). Kudos to you sire!

You are saying this because you agree with him. I do believe that many of the other posts are equally well though out and not repeated blather.

 

[rjwolfe3]

A good majority of them come from Canada.

So do I assume then that the government run health care in Canada doesn't work? What regulations are there on the drugs and medical care available in Mexico? I am asking this because I really want to know.

 

[Russianwolf]

Joe,

The difficulty is, if the government offers you insurance, only if your employer does NOT, WHY would employers continue to offer insurance??

Do you realize this is a cost of employment that raises the employers' overhead and makes their products LESS COMPETITIVE on the world market? So, if they shift this burden to the government, their products become less costly.

Now, this MAY have the effect of raising employment (reducing the record unemployment rate) or employers may automate, further reducing costs (robots never call in sick and they don't NEED health insurance).

We live in a changing world. Be flexible-don't FEAR change, or you will be permanently unemployed.

Now, if I just had more confidence in the guys making these policies.........

Insurance plans under employers may or may not cost the employer anything as is.

The thing is the employers establish a pool with the employees/families. From there its the companies decision as to subsidizing the cost entirely, partially, or just offering the discounted (pooled) rates to the employees themselves (or a combination, some cover the premium for the employee but the employee pays the premium for the family). So they could be in for 0%, 50%, or 100% or anything in between.

What I'm reading now, is that if the company doesn't offer some insurance plan, then they will receive an additional tax. I can tell you that where I am now, the insurance plan costs the company less than 3% of our gross revenue per year, and we fund the insurance 100%. So the tax may be more than the cost of an equivalent plan.

 

[tbroye]

Remember one thing. What ever bill is passed, the Legislative, Exective and Judical brances of Government will not have to participate. They have their own FREE for life Health Plan. There are a couple of exempt group, but can't remember who they are.

I do believe there need to be a safety net for people in Mike's situation and others. But the Government to come in a take the whole system over is scary.

Part of the plan would affect me as Senior Citizen who was forced to go on Medicare at age 65 although I had a perfectly good plan for the last 40 years. As of right now my benifits and copay for medical care and drugs has change to much. But from what I have been able to find out, my benifits will change dramaticly and I will be forced to undergo end of life counciling and the Government or who ever will decide what treatment I will receive if any. Not a very pleasant thing to think about.

There need to be change but fix what is broken not the whole thing.

Living in California it does no good to contact your Congress person of Senator as they are the ones who are writing the bills and could care less what you think.

Better stop now before I really go politically insane.

 

[jleiwig]

Joe,
Do you honestly think the government will stop at that? If this passes, I can promise you that in my lifetime all health care will be government run. If you have no problem with that and you think our government (either political side) does a great job of running things then I feel for you.

I don't understand why they even need this. If you are poor then health insurance is provided for you. If you work for a living then health insurance is available for a fee. If you are self employed then health insurance is available for a little more money. If you are rich you have no need for health insurance.

The truth of the matter is we need to be more reliant on ourselves and less on the damn government. Having said that, I am in no ways near that goal. But that is my fault not the government, not my family and certainly not the rich guy who busted his butt to get where he is at. I am lazy as I know that a lot of Americans are. We want things handed to us and we want things now. Our health care problems are the same as our debt problems and the government should have no say in either one.

Rob,

I know I'm not going to change your mind as your posts have proven your mind is set and closed to listening to anything else.

But the fact is that if you are poor, you can currently only get medicaid if you fall between the ages of 1-20 or have a child under 18 under Covered families/covered children medicaid (CFCM Medicaid). You can only get medicaid above and beyond that if you are Aged (65 or older), Blind, or Disabled (ABD Medicaid).

Other than that if your employer doesn't offer decent health coverage you are screwed. It does not matter what your income level is, but if you are in poor health, no insurance company will cover you regardless of what kind of income you have. You will have to pay out of pocket, and sometimes they won't even let you do that depending on the procedure.

Every day I deal with people who have lost their jobs coming in looking for medical insurance only to turn them away because they are in ok health right now and don't meet the age requirements. People who have worked all their lives only to see their jobs disappear and are now left with nothing. If you are 40 or 50 years old and in decent health, you really get screwed in this country, and that is wrong as this country was built upon the backs of people in that age bracket.

 

[jleiwig]

Well, decided to take a look and see what I could. It's hard to follow since the Author uses sections on only a couple of the references and pages (which are dependent on your computer, etc.) for the others, but I was able to find this one easily.

Copy of the legislation From the Library of Congress http://thomas.loc.gov/

That's a rather long stretch of a non-discrimination clause.

Thanks for proving that the original bit posted was a bust. I love how someone can distort a non-discrimination clause and make it say that we will treat illegal aliens, and whatever else that crosses the border. That's why as I said it's in everyone's best interest to research for themselves what is going on.

 

[rjwolfe3]

At my job I pay $78.91 every two weeks for my health insurance. My employer pays $413.44. I have a choice of several different companies or not having insurance at all. I also have the choice of having a Health Savings Account of which I have not partaken yet. To be honest my insurance sucks but it is better then nothing. I think the problem lies in what the health care professionals charge for their services.

I have a copay of $20 and then the insurance pays 80% to my 20%. I have actually canceled appointments that I needed because I couldn't afford the copay. But, here's my key point, this is my fault and no one elses. I can't afford the copayment or the 20% because of bad choices that I have made. I can not and will not expect the government to step in and fix my mistakes. I do not want and will not ask for handouts from the government.

I am not saying that everyone is in the same boat as me. People cannot control certain things that happen to them but they can control how they respond to those thing. For the record I have several health problems that are not going to kill me right away but they are going to significantly shorten the life that I live. And there are a few things that may show up as I get older thanks to genes passed on to me. I do not have a good plan in place to deal with this but I know that I do not want to rely on the government for it.

 

[ed4copies]

Insurance plans under employers may or may not cost the employer anything as is.

The thing is the employers establish a pool with the employees/families. From there its the companies decision as to subsidizing the cost entirely, partially, or just offering the discounted (pooled) rates to the employees themselves (or a combination, some cover the premium for the employee but the employee pays the premium for the family). So they could be in for 0%, 50%, or 100% or anything in between.

What I'm reading now, is that if the company doesn't offer some insurance plan, then they will receive an additional tax. I can tell you that where I am now, the insurance plan costs the company less than 3% of our gross revenue per year, and we fund the insurance 100%. So the tax may be more than the cost of an equivalent plan.

I'm guessing you work for a very large company.

I'm also guessing the govt plan will be based on number of employees and cost per employee, not gross revenue.

BUT these are both guesses and COULD BE WRONG!!!! I suspect we will all find out more during the congressional recess, after which the debate will become VERY heated. Then, if nothing happens before the 2010 elections, very probably nothing WILL happen.

Political prognostication ----- subject to LARGE percentage of error.

 

[rjwolfe3]

But the fact is that if you are poor, you can currently only get medicaid if you fall between the ages of 1-20 or have a child under 18 under Covered families/covered children medicaid (CFCM Medicaid). You can only get medicaid above and beyond that if you are Aged (65 or older), Blind, or Disabled (ABD Medicaid).

Other than that if your employer doesn't offer decent health coverage you are screwed. It does not matter what your income level is, but if you are in poor health, no insurance company will cover you regardless of what kind of income you have. You will have to pay out of pocket, and sometimes they won't even let you do that depending on the procedure.

Every day I deal with people who have lost their jobs coming in looking for medical insurance only to turn them away because they are in ok health right now and don't meet the age requirements. People who have worked all their lives only to see their jobs disappear and are now left with nothing. If you are 40 or 50 years old and in decent health, you really get screwed in this country, and that is wrong as this country was built upon the backs of people in that age bracket.

Justin,
Things must have changed recently then because I know for fact that awhile ago my entire family recieved heath insurance from the government. My sisters and their families did as well.

When I personally woke up and realized that working a minimum paying job was much better then getting free handouts I got a job at a retail auto parts store part time. It came with very limited benefits. I then applied myself and became full time with better benefits. I stayed at this job and applied for other jobs until I got one that paid much better with slightly better benefits. I am a college graduate and have been on the bottom and I don't like it. There are many jobs out there that people can work that the insurance companies do not ask about preexisting conditions. They may not pay very much but isn't anything better then free handouts from a bankrupt government. The job situation is tragic right now but please don't tell me that there aren't good jobs out there. I see help wanted signs at many fast food places, shops, and other places. Even where I work they are constantly hiring. The minimum wage in Ohio is currently $7.30. Many people can live comfortably on that amount of money.