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This will mark 6300 posts.!!!

(Keep the applause down, please)

Lou once said I made fewer than 20 substantive entries. I couldn't document more than TEN!!!:biggrin::eek::eek::biggrin:
 
Actually, I remember two.

The first was when you introduced the PR Princess. The second was when I won a Kringle. Can anyone help me with a third? :cool:

ed4copies said:
This will mark 6300 posts.!!!

(Keep the applause down, please)

Lou once said I made fewer than 20 substantive entries. I couldn't document more than TEN!!!:biggrin::eek::eek::biggrin:
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Well, I have taken some time away from this thread as it seemed that it was far more of a hot button issue than I would have thought.

For the bottom line of how I feel about the subject, please see my signature line. It is not a universal truth, but since the forum and I are both located in the United States I believe in the First Amendment to the US Constitution.

I exercised my right to free speech and and stated that my speech was in my opinion. I would like to list some of the comments and names that I noticed in the thread, ignoring the post padders who exercise the First Amendment in ad nauseam:eek:

"This would have sounded so much better if you had stopped at the word
'anonymous'. (in my opinion)" Excellent statement, in my opinion

"My opinion and it is worth just what you paid for it." Excellently put

Ahhh, But what if you are in the witness protection program? "Ifin I tells ya where I live I'll have to erase your mind with my laser pen" Sigh, the meds don't always work!

"Excuse me, I have to put my aluminum foil hat back on and keep an eye out for black helicopters!" Abusive speech, refer back to meds not always working. :befuddled:

I like the statement about not really being a part of the IAP family just because you don't post your name.
This forum is based on cliques and if you aren't chosen to be inside it doesn't matter who you are or what your name is. That doesn't sound like a family to me." As noted repeatedly, my opinion, not company policy. I choose not to address the clique notion which always raises its warty head when someone doesn't like what others say and/or believe.


"And from reading some of these posts, especially from members of the "management team" it makes me begin to wonder if this is the type of "family" that I want to belong to." I refuse to accept that a two word title under my user name takes away my rights as a member to express a personal opinion.

"Cav's post was not in his official capacity of a "member of the management team". It was as a member of this community and his opinion only. Folks need to remember that those of us who volunteer our time to this site are not always posting in an official capacity. Sometimes we are just posting as Joe Member. If volunteers always have to be on pins and needles regarding what they say and that it may be construed as an official position, then no one would be willing to volunteer. Is it fair to hold a volunteer to a different standard than a regular member when they are not posting in their area of authority on a topic in which they have been given authority?" Well stated, especially since it agrees with my position. :wink:

"If a person wants to remain hidden, at least use an a.k.a name - make one up just for this forum and make it friendly sounding. No way to really trace it to you anymore than your handle already is." Wow, someone gets it!!!!!

"I would believe that having volunteered and been accepted for an elevated position on the forums, you have given up that "right"; at least when it comes to posts concerning activities." Damn, it is going to be difficult to be the Activities Manager if that becomes policy. Perhaps a touch myopic."

"i agree 100% ! how pompous." Name calling, perhaps I should mention that most keyboards have a shift key. Being called pompous by someone who thinks a signature line based on the thought that flatulation is cute isn't particularly hurtful, however.

"Let's not let emotion overtake logic and turn this into a public lynching. Keep in mind that ANYONE who comes to this forum can read what you are writing and try to imagine what a first time visitor to the site would think." Ah, the meds are really kicking in! :wink:

"We take great pains to keep "bad guys" out of our midst, and are serious about maintaining the privacy of email addresses, IP addresses, postal addresses, etc. It would be great if everyone would felt comfortable about revealing their personal details. I respect the fact that some people don't. I also respect the position of people who don't wish to interact with them. Let's live and let live on this issue. " Reasonable usage of the First Amendment.

"Given up the right by volunteering to help? That ought to end all volunteering." No glasses needed here.

"I agree, if a person is kind enough to give of him/herself with out remuneration I don't think they should give up the right to speak their personal view. How hard would it be to use a signature like Tom in Salt Lake, just a first name and general area surely couldn't hurt." Seems obvious from this corner.

"As I said, I bear no Ill will toward anyone and I must say that the reply by William to my private message reinforced my belief that he a stand up guy and my respect and admiration for him has not diminished whatsoever. I believe that it was a matter of words that "just didn't come out right" and I'm confident that "this to shall pass" Thank goodess, the meds are working full steam!! :wink:

"You won't mind if I point out that the lack of a title or rank certainly has never been an impediment to pontificating. Of course, the answer to the official vs. personal muttering issue is to simply remember to preface the latter with something like 'I think' or 'I feel'. Something that most of us (like me, for instance) should do more often. That should probably be part of 'volunteering 101' now that I think of it." Interesting and well written. I would hope perhaps that we exalted volunteers would be allowed to state that we are speaking as Management rather than stating that we are not. If that gets mandated, I have a lot of posts to go back and insert "I think" into. Also, it seems a bit cumbersome to have to put that in all my posts. i.e., I think that is a nice pen, Marc. I feel you did a good job on the finish.

"The default assumption when you read something from one of the team members should be that it's their opinion unless it is clearly stated otherwise. If you ever read something and you want to know whether or not it's policy, ask me and I'll clear it up." Now that clears it up and I appreciate the post.

"IMO when moderators/coordinators stop communicating, they have stopped moderating/coordinating." Hard to argue with that, whatever it means.

"How would you be able to coordinate the local chapter sub-forum if you took the position of "I choose not to respond to someone if I don't know their name" and someone who did not include their name posts a question to you in that sub-forum?" I can't speak for Lou, and I certainly don't intend to, but I would be a little cautious when dealing with someone who wished to start a local chapter representing the IAP and using the logo if they wished to remain anonymous to the forum.

"It may not be "fair" but it certainly is the standard. People in the "public spot light" like police officers, public officials and even celebrities are held to higher standards than "Joe Pubic" even if they are "off the clock". Remember a fairly recent president that got hauled in front of the country for lying about some hanky-panky in the oval office? Or a Pop star that had her picture all over the internet because she chose to go out without panties on?" I want to know people's names and I am compared to Britany Spears??? Just curious, what high standard is the one to which she is held? BTW, after years of therapy I also have given up wearing panties.

"Next I think we got off the topic because it was William that asked.

EVERYONE PLEASE IGNORE WILLIAM'S POST:" Excellent advice!!!!!!

"I've completely ignored far more knowledgeable people than any of you." A touch elitist, perhaps. Seems to me that it makes learning a bit on the difficult side.

"It's amazing to see the petty crap people can come up with just to argue. After a while you aren't agruing about anything, just arguing to argue, then of course the cheap shots start creeping in..... Sad, and from a bunch of pen turners who if meeting in the real world would be arguing to see who gets to pay for lunch!" You win, you can pick up the lunch tab. :wink:

"I can't believe I just sat here and read all eight pages of this stuff. I must have a pitiful life! By the way, I do look forward to visiting this site daily. It has helped me become a better turner, not just a better pen turner. Still a long way to go, so guys, don't mess things up for me.......I need you. I hope all of you will offer help when I need it. " (Hokies reference deleted, you can only take free speech so far!! :)

"Wow this really went off in the ditch!! A real muddy one at that" A perfect end to a discussion that only the Insane Clown Posse could fully understand. :biggrin: In My Opinion.
 
Just a thought, Why not have a separate login for 'Official' posts for those people with 'Official' positions. That way a personal comment cannot be mistaken for 'Official' comments ?
 
Adding insult to injury.........deleting my Hokies!! How dare you! I quit!! Oh, wait, I can't quit, I have a big order for wood shavings, and a deadline.
 
Since this topic is going "so well" :wink: I just wanted to add a couple more thoughts.

Please remember that I am not attacking the person but I am questioning the idea's and logic.


Here we go again...............


mudder said:
To me (and I might be the only one) it seems that there is no distinction between the "Official Position" and the "Personal Position". Seeing that William has a title under his name and I saw nothing telling me it was a post of his opinion an his opinion only, followed by a post by Admin a few posts below, not contradicting the position it's not hard to see where a person could have the PERCEPTION (remember this word because it is the point of this post) that it is accepted by Admin.
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Jeff said:

The members in "official positions" are there to do a job, not to make policy. It's unfair, unnecessary, and incorrect to infer policy from anything they post except when it is identified as such. They are free to participate as "regular members", with the few caveats described in the Code of Conduct I've established for them which in essence asks simply that they not undermine the mission of the IAP.

I also believe that it is unfair, unnecessary, and incorrect to expect us to be mind readers. Especially when you contradict yourself in the same paragraph, having just finished a sentence telling us they do not make policy you tell us not to infer policy unless it is identified as such. I'm sorry Jeff but you are confusing this simple mind. Does the "management team" make policy or not?

Jeff Says:

I know that it is popular in politics to slice, dice, and dissect everything the other guy says to extract position and policy. I hope we can avoid that here as it doesn't serve any constructive purpose.

I understand and agree.

If you take a look at my original post and then look at what you extracted from my post it would seem to me that you also "sliced and diced" what I have posted, taking my words out of context to give the reader the perception of a position that I necessarily did not take. I split Williams paragraph in two to illustrate the point that I could not make a distinction between policymaking and personal opinion from the way it was written.



Jeff says:

When a team member's posting does convey policy, it will be identified as such, it will have been discussed with the rest of the team and me, and very likely added to one of our official policy pages.

Again, I am confused. You opened your post by telling us that the "management team" does not make policy but now you are contradicting yourself once again. If they are not here to make policy then I'm confused as to why they are here in the first place? Perhaps I'm just confused as to what the mission of the management team is? I was under the assumption that the "management team" was to be able to help set the policy of the site, especially in the area that they are assigned to. Is this incorrect?

Jeff said:

The default assumption when you read something from one of the team members should be that it's their opinion unless it is clearly stated otherwise. If you ever read something and you want to know whether or not it's policy, ask me and I'll clear it up.

Again I must ask, if the "management team" do not set policy as you said in your opening line then why do we need a default assumption? If the "management team" does not set policy then a "default assumption" would not be necessary.


Jeff says:

In the specific case here, William opined that he would like to see member names in profiles and sigs. I happen to agree with him; other people disagree with both of us. I respect both sides of the issue, and our official policy, as I explained above, does not require names.

William is entitled to his opinion, as everyone on this site is entitled to their opinion (including me).


For what it's worth, I would have no problem putting my real name in my profile if it was a requirement because it is not available to non members. I do however balk at putting my location in my profile and my name in my signature line because they can both be seen by non members. The location that you put in your profile shows up right under your screen name and I don't want to make it available to non members.



Jeff said:

Thanks for the good discussion.

Thank you. It is really refreshing to see such a hot topic go this far without being dragged too far into the weeds. I believe that as a whole this group has made great strides towards having spirited but respectful disagreements. I hope that as a group we can all work together to make this a much better place for everyone
 
Why can't we all have titles, like on the AAW site? Then if someone want's to be 'official' they can put their serious title in their sig. The rest of us can just kid each other about all the silliness.

Marc
[Gnasher of Pens]
 
I'll say that I never expected to see this kind if response!

As I stated before I was just playing devil's advocate. wdCav said he couldn't understand why, so I gave some reasons why. I never thought it would turn into the mishmosh of redonculousness pooh that it has.

The only thing I'll take issue with wdCav for is that he can't be saying someone has an elite attitude if he's the one saying he won't respond to those who don't use an identifier name. Pot meet Mr. Kettle

You all have to remember that you have all kinds coming here. A lot of you come for the socialization, I don't. I come here for information and information only, not socializing, so if I forget to add the USTIN behind my first initial of my name and before my last name of my login you'll have to forgive me. If it loses me a couple of people replying to my questions so be it. No sleep lost, I'm not going to end it all because of it. It is a good way to alienate the lurkers though.
 
jleiwig said:
I'll say that I never expected to see this kind if response!

As I stated before I was just playing devil's advocate. wdCav said he couldn't understand why, so I gave some reasons why. I never thought it would turn into the mishmosh of redonculousness pooh that it has.

The only thing I'll take issue with wdCav for is that he can't be saying someone has an elite attitude if he's the one saying he won't respond to those who don't use an identifier name. Pot meet Mr. Kettle

You all have to remember that you have all kinds coming here. A lot of you come for the socialization, I don't. I come here for information and information only, not socializing, so if I forget to add the USTIN behind my first initial of my name and before my last name of my login you'll have to forgive me. If it loses me a couple of people replying to my questions so be it. No sleep lost, I'm not going to end it all because of it. It is a good way to alienate the lurkers though.
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"I've completely ignored far more knowledgeable people than any of you."
A touch elitist, perhaps. Seems to me that it makes learning a bit on the difficult side.

If it makes you happy to think in your opinion the two things are the same, by all means do so. Come to think of it you prefer to ignore knowledgeable people so feel free to ignore me as well. In My Opinion :rotfl:
 
wdcav1952 said:
"I've completely ignored far more knowledgeable people than any of you."
A touch elitist, perhaps. Seems to me that it makes learning a bit on the difficult side.

If it makes you happy to think in your opinion the two things are the same, by all means do so. Come to think of it you prefer to ignore knowledgeable people so feel free to ignore me as well. In My Opinion :rotfl:
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I didn't post that originally, you've got the wrong guy. :befuddled:

I've made no claims as to who and what I'm going to ignore. I don't judge people here..that's the point your missing. From your original post you've told us that you judge people to who do not use their name in a post to somehow be unfriendly basically and that you've chosen to ignore those people.

What I said was you can't begin call someone an elitist because they chose to ignore someone based on some reason of their choosing just as you've chosen to ignore someone based on some reason of your choosing.

Or maybe you'd been happier if I said that it was "a touch hypocritical, perhaps" :biggrin:

JUST MY OPINION THOUGH! :wink:
 
jleiwig said:
I didn't post that originally, you've got the wrong guy. :befuddled:

I've made no claims as to who and what I'm going to ignore. I don't judge people here..that's the point your missing. From your original post you've told us that you judge people to who do not use their name in a post to somehow be unfriendly basically and that you've chosen to ignore those people.

What I said was you can't begin call someone an elitist because they chose to ignore someone based on some reason of their choosing just as you've chosen to ignore someone based on some reason of your choosing.

Or maybe you'd been happier if I said that it was "a touch hypocritical, perhaps" :biggrin:

JUST MY OPINION THOUGH! :wink:
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You got me on that one, Justin. BTW, I remember that judge not lest ye be judged bit from somewhere. I never said I judged anyone, just that I had a preference.
 
Mudder said:
As far as I'm concerned I wish you would make it a policy to have your name and location in your profile (where only members can see it) and I disagree with putting it in the signature line. Why? Because I'm not sure if the signature line can be viewed by the general public and I don't want just anybody knowing who I am (Yes Mike, I'm THAT important :tongue:)
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Signatures are now viewable only by logged on members. See my post.
 
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:highfive:

Thank you. You've shown me once again why I love this place so much.
 
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