Review Your Profile, Please

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I understand and appreciate the spirit behind William's post. However, based on comments in the thread, and email I've received, I think some members might be putting more of a message behind William's request than he intended.

I believe he was just trying to strengthen the community and bring us together, and I commend that intent. I think unfortunately the law of unintended consequences took over here and the topic has actually created some "us-versus-them" thinking which we do not endorse.

I've always tried to gently encourage people to fill in their profile and of course we do have some hard rules about it (to use the classifieds for example). I know that some people feel that not revealing a name is a tipoff that the member is not on the up and up, but I've rarely found that to be the case. In 5 years of running the site, I have encountered a few situations where a member did not want to reveal his or her name because of various pretty legit reasons (bring pursued by an angry spouse who became a member, for example...) What I'm trying to say is that it's a mistake to label people as "not family" or suspicious, or untrustworthy because they don't have a name in their profile or signature.

We take great pains to keep "bad guys" out of our midst, and are serious about maintaining the privacy of email addresses, IP addresses, postal addresses, etc. It would be great if everyone would felt comfortable about revealing their personal details. I respect the fact that some people don't. I also respect the position of people who don't wish to interact with them. Let's live and let live on this issue.

The bottom-line, official position is that while we encourage members to include their real name and location in their profile, that is optional.

If some members don't wish to interact with members whom they don't know by name, that's their prerogative. I feel it's a loss on both sides, but it's not something we are going to solve here.

Thanks for discussing this, and feel free to PM me with further thoughts.
 
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Blind_Squirrel said:
I would believe that having volunteered and been accepted for an elevated position on the forums, you have given up that "right"; at least when it comes to posts concerning activities.
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Scott I think it was already posted that even though they are in an elevated position they are allowed to make post that do not apply to their elevated position. Here it is again in case you do what I do sometimes and scroll too fast.

MesquiteMan said:
Cav's post was not in his official capacity of a "member of the management team". It was as a member of this community and his opinion only. Folks need to remember that those of us who volunteer our time to this site are not always posting in an official capacity. Sometimes we are just posting as Joe Member. If volunteers always have to be on pins and needles regarding what they say and that it may be construed as an official position, then no one would be willing to volunteer. Is it fair to hold a volunteer to a different standard than a regular member when they are not posting in their area of authority on a topic in which they have been given authority?
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DCBluesman said:
Given up the right by volunteering to help? That ought to end all volunteering.
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I agree, if a person is kind enough to give of him/herself with out remuneration I don't think they should give up the right to speak their personal view. How hard would it be to use a signature like Tom in Salt Lake, just a first name and general area surely couldn't hurt.
 
Long discussion.

Let me preface my post by saying that I work in quality and engineering and we tend to see things in "black & white". A part is either to spec or it is not... There is no gray area and I tend to take a strong stance on one side or the other.

I also do not know how to quote multiple posts in a thread so I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. My command of the written word has much room for improvement.......

Curtis,

I'm not trying to call you out, I just want to explain my line of reasoning and perhaps start a RESPECTFUL,HEALTHY DISCUSSION that all of our members can participate in.

Having said that, let's begin.


Curtis said:

"Cav's post was not in his official capacity of a "member of the management team". It was as a member of this community and his opinion only."

Unfortunately I read it to be something different and I would like to show you my line of thinking……

Cav said:

"Of course, I did not recommend this as a condition of membership, and would never do so. I respect a member's right to privacy if they so wish."

To me, (and I might be the only one) this appears to be an "Official Position" and when it is followed with:

Cav said:

"However, they in turn should respect my right not to respond to postings by someone who wishes to remain anonymous and thus, in my opinion, not a full member of the IAP family."

To me (and I might be the only one) it seems that there is no distinction between the "Official Position" and the "Personal Position". Seeing that William has a title under his name and I saw nothing telling me it was a post of his opinion an his opinion only, followed by a post by Admin a few posts below, not contradicting the position it's not hard to see where a person could have the PERCEPTION (remember this word because it is the point of this post) that it is accepted by Admin.



Curtis said:

" Folks need to remember that those of us who volunteer our time to this site are not always posting in an official capacity. Sometimes we are just posting as Joe Member. "

Perhaps there should be a way to differentiate if you are posting "officially" or as "Joe Member"? This could go a long way towards changing the PERCEPTION that this is a group full of "Cliques" or "eletists"




Curtis said:

"If volunteers always have to be on pins and needles regarding what they say and that it may be construed as an official position, then no one would be willing to volunteer."

I have offered to Jeff on a number of occasions my help as I have to you Curtis. I believe that my words were

"Find a place where YOU think I can do the most for the IAP and I would be happy to help"

When the position of Library and resource manager is posted I fully intend to "throw my hat in the ring for that one" I may get it and I may not but I will continue to help wherever I can.

I realize that in the past I have had behavior patterns that were confrontational and I would tend to "let emotion overtake logic" but I truly believe that since the doctor discovered the chemical imbalance and it treating it properly my behavior patterns have improved. I also recognize that I still have some improvements that I need to make because part my post last night (the part about if this the type of "family" that I wanted to belong to) was a classic example if what I refer to as "letting emotion overtake logic" and I apologize for that remark




Curtis said:


"Is it fair to hold a volunteer to a different standard than a regular member when they are not posting in their area of authority on a topic in which they have been given authority?"


No it is not.

However it is an unfortunate reality that not only happens with this group but everywhere in society and you guys have been around long enough that I believe that you understood that from the beginning. Again, I believe that we need to, as a group, work together to try to change the perceptions that we are a group of "cliques" and "elitists" because it is very easy to see where a newcomer could get those perceptions.


As I said, I bear no Ill will toward anyone and I must say that the reply by William to my private message reinforced my belief that he a stand up guy and my respect and admiration for him has not diminished whatsoever. I believe that it was a matter of words that "just didn't come out right" and I'm confident that "this to shall pass"


I will publicly give Jeff permission to post my P.M to him as I believe that the situation was handled properly, thoughtfully, calmly and respectfully.



Thank you,

Scott Hettel
"Mudder"
 

So ......... "How about those Pirates!"

For those of you not familiar with my quote ...... when we go back to Pittsburgh to visit our families .... and all of the relatives are gathered around the table, the conversation sometimes becomes "controversial". When things begin to get heated .... one of my brothers-in-law will pipe up and say "How about those Pirates?" Everybody chuckles and knows it's time to change the topic.
​
 
You won't mind if I point out that the lack of a title or rank certainly has never been an impediment to pontificating. Of course, the answer to the official vs. personal muttering issue is to simply remember to preface the latter with something like 'I think' or 'I feel'. Something that most of us (like me, for instance) should do more often. That should probably be part of 'volunteering 101' now that I think of it.

DCBluesman said:
Given up the right by volunteering to help? That ought to end all volunteering.
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Most of you haven't been around long enough to remember, but this kind of garbage is what ended the first IAP Board of Directors a few years back.

If anyone thinks they should hold me to some artificial standard based on the fact that I have VOLUNTEERED to help out with the site, I strongly suggest they blow it out their @*$%.

I don't hold myself up to be more important just because Jeff has chosen to indicate a title in my Screen Name. In fact, most folks will tell you that service positions are usually filled by people who DON'T think they are more important - they think VOLUNTEERING is more important.

Now if a very few of you can't understand that my posts are meant to be from LOU METCALF, MEMBER, I strongly suggest YOU mentally add the " I think" in front of all of my posts. I don't have time for your petty childishness.


marcruby said:
You won't mind if I point out that the lack of a title or rank certainly has never been an impediment to pontificating. Of course, the answer to the official vs. personal muttering issue is to simply remember to preface the latter with something like 'I think' or 'I feel'. Something that most of us (like me, for instance) should do more often. That should probably be part of 'volunteering 101' now that I think of it.
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Mudder said:
To me (and I might be the only one) it seems that there is no distinction between the "Official Position" and the "Personal Position". Seeing that William has a title under his name and I saw nothing telling me it was a post of his opinion an his opinion only, followed by a post by Admin a few posts below, not contradicting the position it's not hard to see where a person could have the PERCEPTION (remember this word because it is the point of this post) that it is accepted by Admin.
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The members in "official positions" are there to do a job, not to make policy. It's unfair, unnecessary, and incorrect to infer policy from anything they post except when it is identified as such. They are free to participate as "regular members", with the few caveats described in the Code of Conduct I've established for them which in essence asks simply that they not undermine the mission of the IAP.

I know that it is popular in politics to slice, dice, and dissect everything the other guy says to extract position and policy. I hope we can avoid that here as it doesn't serve any constructive purpose.

When a team member's posting does convey policy, it will be identified as such, it will have been discussed with the rest of the team and me, and very likely added to one of our official policy pages.

The default assumption when you read something from one of the team members should be that it's their opinion unless it is clearly stated otherwise. If you ever read something and you want to know whether or not it's policy, ask me and I'll clear it up.

In the specific case here, William opined that he would like to see member names in profiles and sigs. I happen to agree with him; other people disagree with both of us. I respect both sides of the issue, and our official policy, as I explained above, does not require names.

Thanks for the good discussion.
 
DCBluesman said:
Given up the right by volunteering to help? That ought to end all volunteering.
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IMO when moderators/coordinators stop communicating, they have stopped moderating/coordinating.

How would you be able to coordinate the local chapter sub-forum if you took the position of "I choose not to respond to someone if I don't know their name" and someone who did not include their name posts a question to you in that sub-forum?

Curtis said:
Is it fair to hold a volunteer to a different standard than a regular member when they are not posting in their area of authority on a topic in which they have been given authority?
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It may not be "fair" but it certainly is the standard. People in the "public spot light" like police officers, public officials and even celebrities are held to higher standards than "Joe Pubic" even if they are "off the clock". Remember a fairly recent president that got hauled in front of the country for lying about some hanky-panky in the oval office? Or a Pop star that had her picture all over the internet because she chose to go out without panties on?

Like it or not, "Joe Member" will use the moderators/coordinators/volunteers of this forum as a gauge of what this forum is about. Like it or not, as long as your name has a title below it, you will be held to a different standard by some others on this forum.
 
Scott, thank God I have gotten to know a little of you and did not take your lunch time post as harsh as it came across. Please do not post on a serious topic that you have a stong opinion on after a couple of hot toddies! :eek::biggrin::eek:

Everyone has some very good points but at the same time it seems that we have gotten of the topic/request or whatever.

Scott you said that what difference is it if I give my name or not. We won't have each over for Thanksgiving and we won't exchange gifts at Chistmas. That all sounds pretty solid at first glance. I think the point about offering a first name is more about social politeness rather than are you going to become friends or buddies. If you go to a cocktail party and are introduced to the host's friends are you going to refer to yourself as Mudder or Scott? You are probably not going to have Thanksgiving dinner with them or exchange X-mas gifts so why would you give your real name?

Next I think we got off the topic because it was William that asked.

EVERYONE PLEASE IGNORE WILLIAM'S POST:

For those that see fit could you please review your profile and maybe put in a first name and even a state would be nice. (Mudder, confussion is your state of mind not the state you live in.:)) If for no other reason this would be of great help to those that run group buys and for those who participate in them and forget their IAP handle with their payment.

Pesonally I think that is all the post was, nothing more nothing less. I am really suprised at people taking offense at being asked their name. Sometimes it is a sad world we live in. :frown:

Scott thank you for letting me poke a little fun with you. No offense is meant as you well know.

Mike
 
As far as a first name, I like it. To me it's easier to say hi Mack or Ed or Joe than Hi imakesawdust Just seems a little more personal to me. Other than that I don't care.

Now email addresses that would be another thing, but my email address is not accessible in my profile to others. That is a good thing. I was using one address for all my woodworking related stuff and started getting spam to that address. Since the provider for my web site allows me 500 addresses I have started making a new one for each on line activity. I changed the one for this site a while ago and for those interested I have not got any spam to the new address so it was not coming from someone harvesting addresses here.
 
I think we apparently have very different opinions about what composes petty childness. You seem alarmingly quick to take offense.

I think showing respect for differences is a considerably stronger way to build fellowship than resolving whether DCBluesman is or isn't Jack the Ripper. And I'm certainly not going to take anything you or any other board member says as gospel in any case. I've completely ignored far more knowledgeable people than any of you.

Thanks,

Marc

DCBluesman said:
Now if a very few of you can't understand that my posts are meant to be from LOU METCALF, MEMBER, I strongly suggest YOU mentally add the " I think" in front of all of my posts. I don't have time for your petty childishness.
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All;

Like I said, this is always a tempest in a teapot subject. People really differ on this issue and it can quickly come to emotional terms. What's important is to use common sense in extending your trust. Don't automatically trust just because you happen to think you know the name of the person your exchanging with. It is, after all, not screen name, but behavior that it important.

Really, you are all very nice people. Don't lose sight of that.

Marc
 
jeff said:
The members in "official positions" are there to do a job, not to make policy. It's unfair, unnecessary, and incorrect to infer policy from anything they post except when it is identified as such. They are free to participate as "regular members", with the few caveats described in the Code of Conduct I've established for them which in essence asks simply that they not undermine the mission of the IAP.

I know that it is popular in politics to slice, dice, and dissect everything the other guy says to extract position and policy. I hope we can avoid that here as it doesn't serve any constructive purpose.

When a team member's posting does convey policy, it will be identified as such, it will have been discussed with the rest of the team and me, and very likely added to one of our official policy pages.

The default assumption when you read something from one of the team members should be that it's their opinion unless it is clearly stated otherwise. If you ever read something and you want to know whether or not it's policy, ask me and I'll clear it up.

In the specific case here, William opined that he would like to see member names in profiles and sigs. I happen to agree with him; other people disagree with both of us. I respect both sides of the issue, and our official policy, as I explained above, does not require names.

Thanks for the good discussion.
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Jeff,

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on some of what is discussed here. As far as I'm concerned I wish you would make it a policy to have your name and location in your profile (where only members can see it) and I disagree with putting it in the signature line. Why? Because I'm not sure if the signature line can be viewed by the general public and I don't want just anybody knowing who I am (Yes Mike, I'm THAT important :tongue:)

Having said that, I'm not going to Voluntarily do it unless it's a requirement because I like to be difficult sometimes! :good:


Now that the seriousness is out of the way and I've spoken my peace I have to place my tongue firmly in cheek and ask you if the default assumption that you stated above should be considered policy because it has NOT been clearly stated and I need to know?? :confused:

Yes Curtis, I'll go practice my CA finish now:wink:

No Mike, I'm at work and I don't plan on having a redneck gin & tonic until at least 7:00 tonight..... Maybe I'll give you a call about 9:30 when I'm on my third so we can have a chat :eek: but I think I'll start searching through my email's while I can still see to find Williams number.... I think I have it around somewhere...... If not I'll have to spend the $9.95 to get it on peoplefinder.com :bananen_smilies022:
 
I'll start:

My name is Bill Jacob....I'm a pen addict.

I will have to tell DocStram that will have to be my new title instead of "Weasel Bill in Idaho".
 
Mudder said:
Jeff,

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on some of what is discussed here. As far as I'm concerned I wish you would make it a policy to have your name and location in your profile (where only members can see it) and I disagree with putting it in the signature line. Why? Because I'm not sure if the signature line can be viewed by the general public and I don't want just anybody knowing who I am (Yes Mike, I'm THAT important :tongue:)
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Belvedere Jehosophat,

I think you need to re-read Jeff's thoughts on this. We officially encourage folks to put their names and location in their profiles but I don't think we have ever officially encouraged people put it in their signature.

I don't have my location in my sig and see no need for it since it is available in my profile.

Now Belve, go back to sniffing your CA fumes!
 
Ain't cyberspace neat!

It's amazing to see the petty crap people can come up with just to argue. After a while you aren't agruing about anything, just arguing to argue, then of course the cheap shots start creeping in..... Sad, and from a bunch of pen turners who if meeting in the real world would be arguing to see who gets to pay for lunch!

The way I see it, you either put your name in your profile or you don't. Doesn't seem to be a whole lot to argue about does it?
 
MesquiteMan said:
Belvedere Jehosophat,

I think you need to re-read Jeff's thoughts on this. We officially encourage folks to put their names and location in their profiles but I don't think we have ever officially encouraged people put it in their signature.

I don't have my location in my sig and see no need for it since it is available in my profile.

Now Belve, go back to sniffing your CA fumes!
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Now I have to pick fun at you Curtis


This is your moderator

Insert picture of Curtis here:


This is your moderator sticking his foot in his mouth:

See file attached....






Any Questions?
 

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Hey Tex,

I hope you aren't saying that Doc calling me a Weasel was a cheap shot. I consider DocStram to be one of my good friends and his giving me the title was purely for fun. I put my post in there just to lighten the mood a bit and nothing was meant to insult someone or insinuate that someone had offended me (it takes an awful lot to upset me).

Sometimes the mood in this forum just gets a bit touchy, and I have read several posts in this thread where people are trying to lighten the mood. It is always nice to have people who can make light of a situation and still take it seriously.
 
Belve,

My location is in my PROFILE, not my signature. We encourage folks to put it in their PROFILE. You agree but disagree that it should be in their SIGNATURE as you stated above. Come on, Belve, get with the reading comprehension!:biggrin:
 
ilikewood said:
Hey Tex,

I hope you aren't saying that Doc calling me a Weasel was a cheap shot. I consider DocStram to be one of my good friends and his giving me the title was purely for fun.
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It most certainly wasn't a cheap shot! I'm a regular, dues paying IAP member. Every January I get my membership statement from Jeff and pay my $250 just like everybody else. :wink:

George knows I'm a better cheap shot artist than that!! :biggrin::biggrin:
 
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Mudder said:
Jeff,

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on some of what is discussed here. As far as I'm concerned I wish you would make it a policy to have your name and location in your profile (where only members can see it) and I disagree with putting it in the signature line. Why? Because I'm not sure if the signature line can be viewed by the general public and I don't want just anybody knowing who I am (Yes Mike, I'm THAT important :tongue:)

Having said that, I'm not going to Voluntarily do it unless it's a requirement because I like to be difficult sometimes! :good:


Now that the seriousness is out of the way and I've spoken my peace I have to place my tongue firmly in cheek and ask you if the default assumption that you stated above should be considered policy because it has NOT been clearly stated and I need to know?? :confused:

Yes Curtis, I'll go practice my CA finish now:wink:

No Mike, I'm at work and I don't plan on having a redneck gin & tonic until at least 7:00 tonight..... Maybe I'll give you a call about 9:30 when I'm on my third so we can have a chat :eek: but I think I'll start searching through my email's while I can still see to find Williams number.... I think I have it around somewhere...... If not I'll have to spend the $9.95 to get it on peoplefinder.com :bananen_smilies022:
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ROTFLMAO

Scott,

Difficult? You??? How COULD you say such a thing?:eek:

BTW I have William's number :wink:.......and I'll sell to you for only $29.95! (Sorry William, I need some CA :tongue:)
 
MesquiteMan said:
Belve,

My location is in my PROFILE, not my signature. We encourage folks to put it in their PROFILE. You agree but disagree that it should be in their SIGNATURE as you stated above. Come on, Belve, get with the reading comprehension!:biggrin:
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Well Curtis,

you pulled out one foot and replaced it with the other. If you look at the post below (which has yet to be verified as policy:biggrin:) It appears that you name and location is encouraged to be in both :confused:



jeff said:
In the specific case here, William opined that he would like to see member names in profiles and sigs. I happen to agree with him; other people disagree with both of us. I respect both sides of the issue, and our official policy, as I explained above, does not require names.

Thanks for the good discussion.
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George;

If you haven't figured it out yet, this is my attempt to pad my post count so I can catch up to Ed and Cav :bulgy-eyes:

Or you can consider my ulterior motivation which is to have Jeff create a cabinet level position as forum Troll :eek: I think I pretty much got a lock on that one :cool:
 
Scott you need to work on the "post count" to catch up to those two. At least 25-30 a day. :biggrin:

BTW I forgot to mention on your invite to Thanksgiving you gave all of us. I would be afraid of those trees you show in your avatar. How do you keep them smiling with them knowing your turn their family members into toothpicks. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
airrat said:
Scott you need to work on the "post count" to catch up to those two. At least 25-30 a day. :biggrin:

BTW I forgot to mention on your invite to Thanksgiving you gave all of us. I would be afraid of those trees you show in your avatar. How do you keep them smiling with them knowing your turn their family members into toothpicks. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
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You have to appease the fairies that live in the trees :wink:

(that's 1...... 29 more to go)
 
Mudder,
One of the guys I get wood pieces from has a face in one of his trees. Made me jump the first time I saw it. Reminded me of those talking trees you see in Halloween movies. If I remember I will get you a picture next time I am over there.
 
I can't believe I just sat here and read all eight pages of this stuff. I must have a pitiful life! By the way, I do look forward to visiting this site daily. It has helped me become a better turner, not just a better pen turner. Still a long way to go, so guys, don't mess things up for me.......I need you. I hope all of you will offer help when I need it. BTW, how 'bout them HOKIES!
 
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Scotty said:
I can't believe I just sat here and read all eight pages of this stuff. I must have a pitiful life! By the way, I do look forward to visiting this site daily. It has helped me become a better turner, not just a better pen turner. Still a long way to go, so guys, don't mess things up for me.......I need you. I hope all of you will offer help when I need it. BTW, how 'bout them HOKIES!
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You need to change your profile settings, I have mine at 40 messages per page that way I only had two pages to read! I wouldn't have spent the time to read it if it were 8 pages! :biggrin:

Sorry Mudder, didn't see that coming, especially from you, I thought Ed was the only member low enough to pad his post count!
 
By now you should know, Nolan.

Once every 3-4 months, we have to have a "Your mother wears combat boots" subject. This time, CAV was the lucky "thread author".
 
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ed4copies said:
NPGJ, Tex.
(Nice Post, good job)
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Oh..... So you leave me to battle the dragons and NOW you decide to chime in? :thunder:


Mr Brown,

Do I need to offer to buy you another drink? :wink:
No, I don't think we'll go there again :eek: Besides, we can't talk religion on the forum anyways :beat-up:



(that's 2...... 28 more to go, but WAIT!! Ed has posted twice more in this thread alone so I guess I'll have to post 30 more times to be back where I started from)
 
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