Question Regarding "SalvagedTimber" Seller

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Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />Perhaps my use of the word "shots" was unfortunate. However, anyone who thinks our concerned poster does not have an agenda is naive at best.
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I'm thinking that DocStram and the others who have had difficulties with Mr. Fourness are posting here with "agendas" as well. How come you aren't disparaging them??

I think most here will agree cncrndprsn07 has added some useful information to this discussion is stark contrast to one or two other posts.
 
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I've written to William (SalvagedTimber) giving him an opportunity to respond to the allegations in this topic and some other information which I've received via email. If I hear anything from him, I'll let you know.
 
If I may, I'd like to add some new thoughts here:

In a private communication, on July 30th at 5:30 PM I sent someone info that a person named William Fourness had two police issues as we've now seen posted.
We wrote back and forth, and when asked IF this person could be telling the truth I responded with:
----- begin included text -----
Tough one; could go either way but I'm inclined to think Truth.
If it's the truth, he's in a tough place -- having to deal with what's probably alcoholism, lack of self-esteem, financial struggles, stigma of family abuse, and trying to fix problems he didn't create. If he's not being truthful, it'll reveal itself soon.

Let's say it's the truth. It becomes possible for the more spiritually inclined here to reach out to someone and perhaps make a difference in that person's life. Help them to know that doing the right thing is rewarded.

I've just loaded up on blanks and kits, but I'm going to see what I can do. He can't bankrupt me. ;-)

----- end included text -----

Now, I also looked online at www.intelius.com and searched for Will Fourness in PA.
There is a 62 year old William A Fourness with numerous relatives, including a William in Coudersport, and a William in Port Allegany. There's also a 62 year old Betty Nelson in Coudersport. Betty is named as a business Money Order recipient on the Pennswood website. The police records indicate a 40 yr old wife beater.
Thus, W. A. F. (62) could be the father and W. F., (40) could be the son OR there could
be a grandson William we're dealing with here.

Were it not nearly midnight, I'd call William and simply ask him what's up.
When I wrote "Tough one; could go either way but I'm inclined to think Truth." I was
less convinced than not but <b>WANTING</b> to hope for truth.

Here's what I think:
William wants to do business with IAP members. There's numerous reasons for IAP members to withhold trust for this potential vendor. The online information coupled with numerous members' past experiences suggests large discomforting clouds. Clearly, that translates into a long, uphill road wherein the opporunity is to be rewarded with {re}established credibility, integrity, and honor.

Were I an innocent William, I'd struggle with the weight imposed by "the sins of the father." Were I an innocent William, I'd struggle with having to prove myself. Were I William, it would be my desire to wear innocent wings that would provide the strength to work through these trials and earn the trust of IAP members.

The truth will bear itself out -- it always does.

William, please come forth and share all the facts. IAP members are good folk who do what they can to help individuals help themselves.

Gary
 
Phew! What's that stench in the air?! Smells like lynch mob to me! I wish each of you would re-read the 6 pages of garbage here. Listen to your righteous selves![xx(] Tell me what good folk you are! [xx(]

sign me: DISGUSTED..............[:(!]

But then that's just me![:D] I guess I just don't understand how to be such a "good folk."[:(] That's all right you can pick on me now for awhile; and, yes, I am being wayyyyy sarcastic. So what?!
 
Thanks Thumbs, for that smack of instant Karma...

I know I came off hot over my dealings with Salvaged Timber in the past, but young Mr. Fourness and I have corresponded about fixing the situation. I'll post my outcome in a week or so, I hope.

As for our various castigations and effigies being burned, who hasn't had family problems or problem families??? I know I have both, and am reminded of an ancient tale of biblical proportions about throwing stones...
 
Charles, I did not mean to direct any of my comments specifically to you. What bothers me is the "pack" mentality exhibited here. I've never done business with the person disparaged here and don't particularly care if anyone else does or not. I also don't care if he is a bad business person or not. Bad business people don't tend to stay in business for the long haul anyway for whatever reason it is that makes them a bad business person.......... I just find it disturbing that when someone has a gripe with someone else we tend to "pile on" and attack without mercy or "letup" like a pack of dogs. This "complaint" has dragged on for 6 pages (or more when it's finally done) accomplishing little except venting spleen to destroy a man and his business, deservedly or not. What does that say about us? I don't like what I think it says. Let us be done with it.........
 
I don't see this as piling on. I see this as an attempt to ascertain which version of the story is true or at least what is the WHOLE truth. I've never done business with either Pennswoods, salvagedtimber or any of the other business names. I would love to help someone that has had problems and would consider taking him up on his offer to "see first, then pay" as this would be a excellent opportunity for him to show "good faith".

However a person with the same name, approximate age and in the same general location has been arrested for stealing wood. Until I see some good evidence that this is a different person, I can't/won't purchase wood. If solid evidence were shown that salvagedtimber is not the accused, my conclusion would most likely change. I don't claim to be any better than William, I'm not. However, I don't/won't deal with people if I suspect what I'm purchasing might be stolen. This pertains to any product and not just those being sold by salvagedtimber. All of the other problems to me, don't matter.
 
Originally posted by Thumbs
<br />Charles, I did not mean to direct any of my comments specifically to you. What bothers me is the "pack" mentality exhibited here. I've never done business with the person disparaged here and don't particularly care if anyone else does or not. I also don't care if he is a bad business person or not. Bad business people don't tend to stay in business for the long haul anyway for whatever reason it is that makes them a bad business person.......... I just find it disturbing that when someone has a gripe with someone else we tend to "pile on" and attack without mercy or "letup" like a pack of dogs. This "complaint" has dragged on for 6 pages (or more when it's finally done) accomplishing little except venting spleen to destroy a man and his business, deservedly or not. What does that say about us? I don't like what I think it says. Let us be done with it.........
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Bob, you didn't single out Charles, but you complained about the entire bunch of us. While I do wish that we had been able to discuss some of this in a more private environment, that's just not the nature of the Internet. People smell a funny story and they want to get to the bottom of it, quickly. Things happen fast with paypal, etc., and I think the intent here was to get everyone to hold their cards until the air was cleared.

Had SalvagedWood offered a shred of evidence that he was telling the truth, I guarantee that the apologies and orders would have flowed as quickly as the accusations. The moment I was made aware that there was some concern over the validity of the story, I wrote to him and asked for something that would prove his claim.

The phenomenon of quickly digging and trying to get to the truth is not unique to this forum. It's the nature of the growing transparency of society in general. When things don't pass the sniff test and something is at stake (money, for example) people begin trying to get to the truth.

People need to realize that the Internet and the availability of information change the way things need to be presented. Tall tales and sob stories might have worked in the small-town old days, but not any more. If someone makes a claim that seems somewhat bogus, and expects to benefit in some way from that story, they ought to be ready to come through with some proof.

I don't like the piling on effect, and when it happens I encourage people to collect facts and give the accused a chance to shut down the chatter once and for all with the facts.
 
Bob, no you didn't single me out.

Tommy, just pointing out, being arrested and accused of a crime are not the same as being convicted and sentenced for a crime... I'm sure there is a lawyer somewhere in this merry band who could 'splain it to us all a bit better.

With that said, I am at an end.
 
Our applause goes to Jeff for the highly professional manner in which he handled this thread. This was a delicate matter for all of us. He applied just the right amount of intervention .... at, just the right time.
Thanks again , Jeff.
 
FWIW, Salvaged Timbers donated a LOT of wood for the raffle at the Penturner's Rendezvous this year. I won some of it and gave it to Scott for his hospitality when I stopped to visit he and his wife on my way home.
 
Originally posted by Randy_
<br />
Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />Perhaps my use of the word "shots" was unfortunate. However, anyone who thinks our concerned poster does not have an agenda is naive at best.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking that DocStram and the others who have had difficulties with Mr. Fourness are posting here with "agendas" as well. How come you aren't disparaging them??

I think most here will agree cncrndprsn07 has added some useful information to this discussion is stark contrast to one or two other posts.
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Randy,

It is obvious that this thread has gone on far too long, and that Jeff has resolved the issue. I do feel compelled to answer your question, however.

First, I have no axe to grind as I have never done any business with the vendor in question.

Second, I agree with you that other members likely had an agenda of their own. My problem was with someone joining and posting information anonymously. The truth or lack of same of the information was not the issue for me, just the unknown identity of the poster. For example there is one member who in my opinion, only posts to cause dissension. I rarely to never agree with this person, but at least their profile has a name. This I can tolerate much better than someone hiding behind a username.
 
Well I never said what jail he was in now did I??? Did any one post dates of charges or how old they were. We been in business 5 yrs. Did any looking into the rahabs he may attend. Sure you only dug up the bad. Like I told Jeff I am done here. Will finish up my business and be gone. I would also like to say with the orders that came in, I had a number of people state that they are not re-newing there membership here b/c of this. So I guess the really question is whom have you hurt more and who all have you hurt in the process?? Sure not us we have a steady supply of loyal customers. And I can't deal here with perfect people and a perfect place b/c no such thing exsists. So glad you all can be so perfect and have perfect lives. And so far only two came foward stating we owe wood too.
Thanks so very much for all you did and being who you are. William
 
Charles Grage
You stated we owed you 12 spalt pen blanks, will these do for replacements? And if they will I'll ship and post Fedex tracking here.
Please advise if these will do thanks.
William

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BigRob77
You put in for a claim of $100.00 or 50 pounds of cherry burl. Well here is 60 pounds of cherry burl. Well worth $3.00 a pound for a total of $180 and I suppose you want me to cover shipping too?? Let me know if these will work and I'll get them boxed and post tracking here. Sorry there anchor sealed already and a bit dusty from sitting around, hard to see how good they really are.

William

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Since my IPA donation ad is closed down and Tuba had the last in at $50.00 if he will e-mail me is shipping I'll go ahead and ship it to him and he can get you the donation of the $50.00 for the burls I had posted.
Thanks
William
 
Originally posted by salvagedtimber
<br />I would also like to say with the orders that came in, I had a number of people state that they are not re-newing there membership here b/c of this.
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That's interesting, and I'm sorry to hear that.

It's interesting because we don't have renewals here.

I'm sorry to hear because you're continuing the BS. You know, William, if you had come here and laid out the truth -- that you had some troubles, had some deals gone bad, and wanted to make things right and get an honest business going with our help, you would have been flooded with orders, sympathy, and offers of help.

Instead, you fabricate a story, and when challenged you split hairs on "which jail he's in", or "when he was in jail". Then you get all self-righteous on us because we don't swallow the story and we only "look for the bad", and we've "hurt ourselves". Poor us, we've persecuted you and now we're going to miss out on all the good stuff you have. I say poor you, because you've missed out on a huge selling opportunity. This isn't some fly-by-night little web site, it's a huge community of people who take care of each other and are loyal to people who treat them right.

Of course we're not a perfect place and we don't expect to deal with perfect people. As I told you in email and as I've written above, we would have gladly accepted your non-perfect history of doing business and helped you rebuild.

I almost never get on a public soapbox about things like this, but your attitude ticks me off. Trying to tell us how badly we've screwed up by not swallowing your story without question is absolutely absurd.
 
Salvagedtimber
Since you are shipping more than you owe me, I'll be happy to pay the shipping. Thank you for making it right. Please understand that people don't like being taken advantage of, especially without explanation. I've sat on this for almost two years. I've said nothing disparaging about you or your father. Until my name was posted here, I kept the debt between the three of us and one moderator. I hope you have no hard feelings about me. I have put up with a lot over the last two years. Again, thank you for making it right.

Rob
 
Originally posted by jeff
<br />
Originally posted by salvagedtimber
<br />I would also like to say with the orders that came in, I had a number of people state that they are not re-newing there membership here b/c of this.
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That's interesting, and I'm sorry to hear that.

It's interesting because we don't have renewals here.

I'm sorry to hear because you're continuing the BS. You know, William, if you had come here and laid out the truth -- that you had some troubles, had some deals gone bad, and wanted to make things right and get an honest business going with our help, you would have been flooded with orders, sympathy, and offers of help.

Instead, you fabricate a story, and when challenged you split hairs on "which jail he's in", or "when he was in jail". Then you get all self-righteous on us because we don't swallow the story and we only "look for the bad", and we've "hurt ourselves". Poor us, we've persecuted you and now we're going to miss out on all the good stuff you have. I say poor you, because you've missed out on a huge selling opportunity. This isn't some fly-by-night little web site, it's a huge community of people who take care of each other and are loyal to people who treat them right.

Of course we're not a perfect place and we don't expect to deal with perfect people. As I told you in email and as I've written above, we would have gladly accepted your non-perfect history of doing business and helped you rebuild.

I almost never get on a public soapbox about things like this, but your attitude ticks me off. Trying to tell us how badly we've screwed up by not swallowing your story without question is absolutely absurd.
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As stated by someone else earlier, Jeff, you make me proud to be part of this community. Key word here "community" I also feel you did a great job of monitoring this thread. It could have gotten real ugly and out of hand.
I say nice job by you and your staff.
Bravo!!!
 
As stated by someone else earlier, Jeff, you make me proud to be part of this community. Key word here "community" I also feel you did a great job of monitoring this thread. It could have gotten real ugly and out of hand.
I say nice job by you and your staff.
Bravo!!!
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Doesn't "staff" usually refer to someone who's paid???[}:)][}:)][}:)]

(Now when the mods come to Jeff asking for their paychecks, he'll probably tell them to go talk to me!)[:D][:D]
 
Originally posted by Tuba707
<br />He gets paid from all the membership renewal fees.
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Speaking of fees.... When I joined the forum I signed up for the three year membership at the reduced rate so I wouldn't have to fool with renewals every year. It has been four months now and I haven't received my membership card showing that I'm paid up. What gives? Does the forum secretary keep up with such things?

George
 
Originally posted by Tuba707
<br />He gets paid from all the membership renewal fees.
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Hey Tuba707, if your going to use sarcasm you'll have to pay for the extra "Sarcasm Membership Option". I did, but trust me it's very expensive. The next time I renew I think I'll skip it though.[}:)]
 
I just want to say that this is really disappointing. I want to exhort the members of this board to think about what transpired in this thread. This may be the internet, but we still have the same responsibility to be tactful and show common respect as we would if we were face to face. The guy may indeed be a lying thief, but we all still have the responsibility to act like adults. Sure, he misrepresented himself. That should be dealt with professionally and without a public scene. What I saw on this thread was bunch of grown men acting like children. That's to your shame, gentlemen. His actions say much about his character, but some of your responses say much about yours as well.

I think that the conversation should have been limited to the transactions between memebers and SalvagedTimber, not delving into his personal life. Now, if that member was indeed selling wood that was stolen or obtained illegally, than yes, that needs to be addressed. But let's leave the rest of his personal life out of this. There is no need to spread the guy's legal problems out for everyone to see. That's not OK, no matter what you think of the man or of his alleged actions. This didn't have to become a character assasination. This didn't need to be hidden, but it should have been taken to the board moderators and left to them to divulge what they felt necessary for us to know. To me, that's the mature way to handle something like this. I realize what's happened has happened, but let it be an example of what to avoid next time.
 
Originally posted by babyblues
<br />I just want to say that this is really disappointing. I want to exhort the members of this board to think about what transpired in this thread. This may be the internet, but we still have the same responsibility to be tactful and show common respect as we would if we were face to face. The guy may indeed be a lying thief, but we all still have the responsibility to act like adults. Sure, he misrepresented himself. That should be dealt with professionally and without a public scene. What I saw on this thread was bunch of grown men acting like children. That's to your shame, gentlemen. His actions say much about his character, but some of your responses say much about yours as well.

I think that the conversation should have been limited to the transactions between memebers and SalvagedTimber, not delving into his personal life. Now, if that member was indeed selling wood that was stolen or obtained illegally, than yes, that needs to be addressed. But let's leave the rest of his personal life out of this. There is no need to spread the guy's legal problems out for everyone to see. That's not OK, no matter what you think of the man or of his alleged actions. This didn't have to become a character assasination. This didn't need to be hidden, but it should have been taken to the board moderators and left to them to divulge what they felt necessary for us to know. To me, that's the mature way to handle something like this. I realize what's happened has happened, but let it be an example of what to avoid next time.
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Jason .... you're over a week late. This issue has already been put to rest. Furthermore, it may have been wise for you to take your own advice .... and for you to have dealt with this matter in a private manner. All it would have taken would have been a couple of "pm's" to those whom you feel committed "character assassination". Please note that I, personally, never attempted to sell stolen wood nor have I ever been involved with domesticate violence .... except for that one time my miter saw attacked me with a piece of cocobolo. [;)]

PS The miter saw won. [:(]
 
Jason: Personally, I think it was fully justified for us to look into all aspects of those peoples lives. They came to IAP wanting to do business with IAP members and a history of being unreliable vendors. Their explanation for the "troubled" history did not ring true and turned out to be lacking. If people have "character" problems in their private lives, it is not unreasonable to expect that might spill over into their business lives.

Under other circumstances, it might not be appropriate to delve so deeply into a persons background; but in this instance, the full and complete vetting was proper.
 
Yep, it is.

I ordered 12 of his cherry burl blanks and haven't recieved them yet, after 2 weeks. He isn't answering his email and he has cashed my check. He's a thief and a rip off.
 
Steve... I have tried to stay out of this mess, but are you saying that you <b>JUST ORDERED</b> some blanks from him 2 weeks ago and this is a recent deal??

Is this the stolen cherry burl?? Maybe it's in an evidence locker somewhere? (Ya, I just had to jab that in there!) [}:)]
 
This was just before this mess exploded. Now I'm out 25 bucks that I could of spent on an honest person at IAP. July 28th is when this all started.
 
Originally posted by toolcrazy
<br />Yep, it is.

I ordered 12 of his cherry burl blanks and haven't recieved them yet, after 2 weeks. He isn't answering his email and he has cashed my check. He's a thief and a rip off.
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If you mailed him a check then report it to the postal inspector for mail fraud.
 
GlassScratcher, any update on your order from Mr. Fourness?

PS - for all it is worth - my response to those who felt as though this whole thread was a "character assasination" - I felt that most here handled things fairly objectively and weighed the evidence - and also gave Mr. Fourness several opportunities to clarify/defend himself.
 
TO ALL....JUST WANT TO SHARE[:)]

I saw this thread: http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26450

I asked about pricing and received a very quick reply. I got photos of the material that was to be shipped to me and pricing all through email. I was told there was no rush on sending the money out as he was trying to establish TRUST and that he would ship the wood in the next day or so.

I got my wood about 2 days ago. So it didn't go out right away, and my USPS Money Order probally got cashed before the order shipped(you have to file a stupid form to find out, and you cannot get status online). BUT, I did get what I asked for, and what I was sent pictures of. The wood looks great by the way. I did get notice of the Tracking Information once the item was shipped via FEDEX Ground.

I personally thought it was nice of him to say, don't worry about sending the money right away, I trust you and hope you will trust me. People just don't do business this way any more, it is too risky for the seller. I sent my USPS Money Order before I got the wood, and very shortly after I confirmed my order total. I am used to paying for something before they let me take it home, go figure[:p]

My order was a total of $39(includes shipping) this was my first transaction with SalvagedTimber. The turn around was, for me, acceptable and about what I might expect of a typical mail order transaction.

MY ONLY REGRET IS THAT I COULD NOT SHARE THIS POSITIVE EXPERIENCE SOONER.[:(]

Talk about DRAMA[:0]

I would also like to thank everyone for their opinions, YOU SCARED THE HELL OUT OF ME[B)]. I thought I was going to be out $39. I started communication with Salvagedtimber before this post actually started. I got quick replies and photos. Then I saw this thread and paniced. I considered cancelling my order. But what is life without risk, besides my limited dealing with this member gave ME no reason to be suspicious.

I felt the right thing to do was continue my dealings and pay what I said I would pay.

You guys had me prepared for the worst though. I like that everyone is watching out for everyone else, but all this was said about the salvagedtimber user id on IAP before any business had been started here with this user ID on IAP from what I could see. Maybe this person was trying to re-establish themselves. I am truly sorry for those who may have had a bad previous experince with this person. From what I can see this user ID is new to IAP and aside from myself the only other person I can see in this post who may have started a transaction with this user ID on IAP is Steve(toolcrazy).

I was on pins and needles the whole time while I was waiting for the wood, just because of everything that got posted here, I stopped reading after I had already sent the money. What was the point, would have just got me more worked up.

Steve, have you heard anything back yet? Has the wood arrived yet? I got extra blanks for the "delay". I didn't ask for them, and I personally think the time was fine, was just on edge because of what I saw in this post.

SO, JUST TO CONFIRM. I placed an order with "SalvagedTimber" user ID on IAP from the above classified. I paid before I got the wood, I got what I asked for and some extra.

I PERSONALLY WOULD BUY FROM THIS MEMBER AGAIN WHEN I NEED SOME MORE CHERRY BURL. THEY LOOK AWESOME[:D].

I think ALL feedback is what makes this forum great. You post the GOOD and the BAD and let everyone decide for themselves. I JUST WANTED TO SHARE MY LIMITED EXPERIENCE WITH THIS MEMBER.

Sorry about the CAPS, I think it is easier than setting the BOLD or COLORING.[:)]
 
Joel, I stopped following the thread so sorry for not answering you. My Ebay auction(18+months) blanks did arrive. He added some nice box elder blanks.

If I order anything from them again it will be with the pay after the order arrives option.
 
Al(DocStram) I noticed that your the one who started this post. I also noticed that on page 7 there were 2 pictures and references to 2 other IAP members from SalvagedTImber showing itemes he was going to send to those members "to make it right".

I am curious, did you give notice of what you had ordered(so he can try to make it right), or are you just content to be out the money and hold the grudge? I am not trying to incite, just think this is a reasonable question.

Also I would like to here from those 2 members back on page 7 to see if they actually got what was shown in the pictures and if that finally closed out what they had originally asked for.

About my positive experience, I am not saying that 1 right makes up for a bunch of wrong and I am not trying to incite anything from anyone. But now I am very curious if the person who started this thread has had any meaningfull conversation with salvagedtimber through this user ID on IAP who is being attacked here. It may have already been said and I missed it or just skimmed past it with all the other bad karma.
 
Robert, as I stated in my post just ahead of yours- I did receive my 12 outstanding blanks from the Ebay auction 18+ months old. Plus he included 12 flame Box Elder, and 2 mystery blanks. One has the coloring of Hickory, but I just don't know, the other is rather unremarkable to look at, but vaguely when smelt, smells like sugar cane, from my cousins farm. Which probably someone will say sugar maple...

I pieced the Spalted Maple (like a puzzle they were) and 8/12 matched the photo exactly. The other 4 spalt maple in the box were fully dry, unlike the first 8/12 pictured which are fully dipped in wax. The 4 dry blanks did not match the photo.

After this amount of time and that Mr. Fourness fulfilled my order, and then some I am happy and not going to quibble about it's inexactness.

Again I will state that if I order anything from them again it will be with the pay after the order arrives option.
 
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Robert .... I appreciate your taking the time to provide us with such a long post detailing your experiences with SalvagedTimber. As I said earlier, I'm glad that you got your wood and that things turned out well for you. I had plenty of communications with this guy in the past .... the vast majority of which were never answered.

My reasons for no longer trying to get what I paid for rest on moral principals. More importantly, we all have different ideas about moral standards .... the shades of which sometimes become ambiguous. After reading about him being arrested for trying to steal a cherry tree and being charged with domestic violence .... I decided to no longer pursue the matter.

It is not my intent for this whole thing to flare up once again. It's just how I dealt with the matter. If another IAP member decides to buy wood from SalvagedTimber .... well, then ... that's the individual member's decision. Each of us has his own moral compass to live by.
 
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