Inclusivity

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Finally!

DocStram said:
Be certain to tell your professor that you conducted research involving humans without gaining the consent of the participants. While you're at it, give the president of your university a heads up that IAP members will be filing a class action suit. Looks to me like we won't be needing to do a fund raiser for a very long time.
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Now that makes the most sense of any post in this whole mess!
 
Ok lets face it (you guys) is a yankee thang.. We down here says (you all) combined as one word, youall. So my vote is to say youall. Which means all of youuns.
 
I was going to stay out of all this silliness but as a "womyn" and living with 3 other "womyn" We all talked about this and thread and think its silliness. I am a very Happy IAP member and My 3 Womyn roommates agree that they are happy I am an IAP member and think all you IAP guys gals chics dudes ect.... are super great because know I don't have to talk all the pen talk with them all the time. LOL!
 
Karin Voorhis said:
My 3 Womyn roommates agree that they are happy I am an IAP member and think all you IAP guys gals chics dudes ect.... are super great because know I don't have to talk all the pen talk with them all the time. LOL!
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See? We're good for something! :tongue:

Personally, I think some people just decide to be offended.. and then they
pick something to be offended about.

BTW .. why is "mankind" out, but "Humankind" is in?

Mankind is gender neutral.
Human comes from the Latin 'humanus' which is masculine
 
Personally, there are many more things I could be called (and have been :biggrin:) that would upset me. What I expect from someone is that they treat me the way I treat them, Doesn't always happen, but I'm big enough to get over it or maybe I'm not treating them right and need to change my approach. :rolleyes:

If being desiginated as "one of the guys" - I'm excited because isn't that what everyone wants....to be included and not on the outside looking in?
 
I know I was one of the people who was always calling everyone "Guys" after it was pointed out I changes to "Hi Everyone", I took one look at the Pen and things she was making and they were better then some of the stuff I have made...
 
dow said:
Well, you know what they say, ignorance is bliss. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Actually, my most favorite vanilla flavor is HEB 1905 Vanilla, with fresh ground nutmeg on it. YUMMMMMMMMM!!!!

Second is Poteet strawberry. Man (oops, I mean human), that stuff is so rich it'll put you in a higher tax bracket. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
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Dow,
You are from Boerne and not all that far from Brenham where you know and everyone in Texas knows they make Blue Bell Home made Vanilla from those singing cows... Take a couple or three scoops of BBHMV and pour a little Bailey's Irish Creme over it and then just drift on cloud 9...:):)

Up here BBHMV is nearly $7 a carton and not in the budget of a pore ol' retired boy from Texas.:wink:
 
mickr said:
Thanks all for the over 60 responses..the silly, the thoughtful, the funny...I have taken the day to try to get them in order by category...Those who would say: Ok it's just as easy to type Folks as Guys..I'll do that Then the ones who said Guys is inclusive..and so on & so on I am taking this to my college course this evening . The class is about language and how men , women, native, etc ., hear it and how they perceive it...My contribution will be the responses from a penmaking forum from people who were able to answer over a 6 hr period...Thank you again for helping me with my continuing education in my old age. It has been eye opening and informative.
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This smelled fishy when I read the first post. I can think of several better approaches to gathering data than to make a shill post. A far more ethical approach would be to simply ask for opinions.

I don't appreciate this any more than I would if a guest in my home yelled "fire!" during a party with the excuse that he needed to gather data for his class on human behavior in a panic situation. When one of my guests gets trampled and your excuse is that you were furthering your education, you'd most certainly leave the property in handcuffs.

Also, you violated our Terms of Service. Have a look at the section "Limitation of Re-Use". I'm sure many of the posters in this thread don't appreciate their responses being used for your educational purposes.

Our members are very willing to give opinions on countless topics with a simple request. Please, don't use this surreptitious approach again.
 
TellicoTurning said:
No I believe it's a contraction and spelled "Y'all"... :biggrin:
the plural of which is "all Y'all" :biggrin::biggrin:
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so .. if I'm visiting from Jersey and want to make sure I don't
leave anyone out, I should say all you'se guys all y'all ?
Or should that be you'se persons?
 
Well, ya'll, my two cents worth?

First of all, I'm an "old lady." Back in the old days, when I learned grammar in school, I learned that the use of "he" and such was, in context, a term which meant all - male and female. I use the term "guys" all the time for the same reason. I always have - all my life. Sitting around with my fellow female classmates, it was understood when I asked if "You guys want to go to a movie?" that I was not referring to the boys at the next table.

I understand where this change in language has stirred from. I regret that other women feel it excludes them. I wish they kept teaching grammer like when I was young. But things change. I don't cook on a wood burning stove anymore. And I'm glad of that. But if you happen to run across some of my posts and I'm saying "Hey guys, . . . " I am speaking as I always have - since those very early days - where it is a general term including male and female people. That's just the way I am. And I would hope you allow me to continue posting here - even though my language has not yet adapted to the modern age as my stove has.
 
jeff said:
This smelled fishy when I read the first post. I can think of several better approaches to gathering data than to make a shill post. A far more ethical approach would be to simply ask for opinions.

I don't appreciate this any more than I would if a guest in my home yelled "fire!" during a party with the excuse that he needed to gather data for his class on human behavior in a panic situation. When one of my guests gets trampled and your excuse is that you were furthering your education, you'd most certainly leave the property in handcuffs.

Also, you violated our Terms of Service. Have a look at the section "Limitation of Re-Use". I'm sure many of the posters in this thread don't appreciate their responses being used for your educational purposes.

Our members are very willing to give opinions on countless topics with a simple request. Please, don't use this surreptitious approach again.
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So can we (YOU) ban him and solve all our Inclusivity problems? :biggrin:
 
AceMrFixIt said:
Holy cow/bull.......this thing has gotten longer than the post on the herringbone 360......OH the humanity.............
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Apparently the HB 360 topic was much more volatile/offensive, as it was shut down, and no other posts allowed........LOL......But my inbox sure filled up quickly......
 
CSue said:
Well, ya'll, my two cents worth?

First of all, I'm an "old lady." Back in the old days, when I learned grammar in school, I learned that the use of "he" and such was, in context, a term which meant all - male and female. I use the term "guys" all the time for the same reason. I always have - all my life. Sitting around with my fellow female classmates, it was understood when I asked if "You guys want to go to a movie?" that I was not referring to the boys at the next table.

I understand where this change in language has stirred from. I regret that other women feel it excludes them. I wish they kept teaching grammer like when I was young. But things change. I don't cook on a wood burning stove anymore. And I'm glad of that. But if you happen to run across some of my posts and I'm saying "Hey guys, . . . " I am speaking as I always have - since those very early days - where it is a general term including male and female people. That's just the way I am. And I would hope you allow me to continue posting here - even though my language has not yet adapted to the modern age as my stove has.
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Extremely well spoken!
 
I confess that I wasn't able to make it through every page of this thread. I really couldn't care less if you call everyone "guys". It is a matter of no concern whatsoever.

My contributions and comments are based solely on my abilty or lack of abilty as a pen turner or "craftsman". I don't care if someone uses "craftsman", "craftsperson" or "craftswoman". This is about working wood... nothing else.

I have never felt disrespected or otherwise offended here and fail to see how any other woman would. If a gal has such thin skin maybe she should join a sewing bee instead of working wood.

What I mean is that it is not realistic or even reasonable to try to change lifelong habits of good people when there is no genuine interest at stake. Gender equality is not based on whether or not a basically neutral aggregate term like "guys" is used. It is based on treating one another with mutual respect no matter what one's gender is. I have no desire to redefine the English language nor its usage.

I want NO SPECIAL TREATMENT. I want the same basic respect that everyone else gets. I'll earn the rest with my work, friendship, and respect I show others.

My $.02.
:cool::cool::cool:
 
Well, I find political correctness to be offensive, so I expect that all political correctness on this forum will cease immediately. It insinuates that I could be incorrect, thus damaging my sense of self. I also think it's offensive that so many of you mock your wives by referring to them as "She Who Must Be Obeyed" so I also expect that will cease immediately. I find it offensive that some of you use those ugly polaris pen kits, so please stop using those as it offends me. I shouldn't have to see that when I come to this forum. YOUR TAKING OFFENSE OFFENDS ME, so stop being offended. How ridiculous does this have to get before we're willing to admit that it's ridiculous?

If someone starts a post with, "Hi males, as a male, I'm clearly superior to any and all females, so obviously all females are excluded from this post and will kindly continue being inferior to me as a male" than by all means, take offense because that is indeed offensive. But don't start pissing and moaning because someone used a particular word when referring to a group of mixed gender. They're obviously not excluding women, so please, take this divisive and manipulative attitude to another forum. We certainly don't need that here. If you want to be a part of this forum, come be a part of this forum and I'll be ecstatic to have you here. But if you start pushing and shoving and demanding that everything be changed to suit your delicate sensitivities, than you will almost certainly feel unwelcome because people are naturally going to resist being manipulated.

Before you take offense to anything I've posted, remember that I'm offended by you taking offense. That means you have to stop. Thank you.
 
babyblues said:
Before you take offense to anything I've posted, remember that I'm offended by you taking offense. That means you have to stop. Thank you.
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I love this it's perfect. Sue and Bree very well put both of you said just what I was feeling too. Minus the cooking on woodstove. That would mean burning up potential pen blanks to eat!!! Hahaha!

This whole thread seems to of captivated a lot of us! When we should just let it die is the wind without any more posting. Both genders from this great IAP have sounded and we all seem very happy here and no one is feeling left out. There for I suggest we get back to turning and talking Pens power tools and wood toss in some blo and ca and to be honest you talk that I don't care if your a person alien animal or a freak mutation. You and I have something in common and share a passion we can enjoy share and help each other with....
 
NewLondon88 said:
so .. if I'm visiting from Jersey and want to make sure I don't
leave anyone out, I should say all you'se guys all y'all ?
Or should that be you'se persons?
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Being born in PA I used the you'se guys, red up the house and the like. Now being a southern transplant I use y'all and clean up that frappin room.......they all get the meaning.
 
babyblues said:
...Before you take offense to anything I've posted, remember that I'm offended by you taking offense. T...
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Well, I know one thing for sure. The next time somebody takes a fence, I hope that they bring it by my house. I need a fence in my back yard. You can pm for my address, and be sure to bring some friends to help put it up. I'll throw something on the pit and we'll have a high old time. Just don't show up without a fence.:biggrin:
 
Bree said:
I confess that I wasn't able to make it through every page of this thread. I really couldn't care less if you call everyone "guys". It is a matter of no concern whatsoever.

My contributions and comments are based solely on my abilty or lack of abilty as a pen turner or "craftsman". I don't care if someone uses "craftsman", "craftsperson" or "craftswoman". This is about working wood... nothing else.

I have never felt disrespected or otherwise offended here and fail to see how any other woman would. If a gal has such thin skin maybe she should join a sewing bee instead of working wood.

What I mean is that it is not realistic or even reasonable to try to change lifelong habits of good people when there is no genuine interest at stake. Gender equality is not based on whether or not a basically neutral aggregate term like "guys" is used. It is based on treating one another with mutual respect no matter what one's gender is. I have no desire to redefine the English language nor its usage.

I want NO SPECIAL TREATMENT. I want the same basic respect that everyone else gets. I'll earn the rest with my work, friendship, and respect I show others.

My $.02.
:cool::cool::cool:
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Bree, well stated. It resounds the words of the late Dr. Martin Luther King, although we was speaking to racism, I think it applies here as well:
"A man should not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
As far as I am concerned everyone who comes here comes on equal footing. It is what we do with what we are given that sets some apart. Do you contribute? Do you enlighten? Do you demonstrate? Do you act with respect or stir up trouble? Have you made this forum in some way better? And while I believe that respect is earned, it is also owed.
The OP may not have started this thread with the greatest intentions, but I think some good is coming out of it.
 
dow said:
Well, I know one thing for sure. The next time somebody takes a fence, I hope that they bring it by my house. I need a fence in my back yard. You can pm for my address, and be sure to bring some friends to help put it up. I'll throw something on the pit and we'll have a high old time. Just don't show up without a fence.:biggrin:
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AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! That's great!!!! I think there are plenty of extra fences around here after this thread. :biggrin:
 
As a female on the forums I had to respond to this post. I've never felt excluded or offended or condescended to by virtue of being female here. And even though I know many people thought I was male at first, because of my username, that was in no way intentional or any effort to hide my gender, it's just that putting the first part of my first and last name together makes it sound male. (And I've just been too lazy to make an avatar, but it'd probably give away my gender if I ever did make one.)

I know some people do take more offense than me at labels or words that seem to be used as labels. Being a diabetic, and working in the healthcare field, I know that many people hate the term "diabetic" and say that one should be called a "person with diabetes", since there's more to the person than just the diabetes. Well yes, that's true, there is more to me than that, but it is a part of me and for convenience sake, it is an easy way to indicate something (like referring to "guys" here, to mean the general population).

I once did a professional presentation to a state organization and got some negative feedback for using the term "diabetic" and someone wrote that I should think about how a person with diabetes feels about that- of course she didn't know that I was a "person with diabetes" and I was fine with what I said. Taken to an extreme, we shouldn't call someone a "mother", we should call her a "person with children" because after all, there's more to her than her "motherhood" isn't there? We shouldn't call someone a "police officer" but rather a "person who's employed in the law enforcement field" because after all, he or she might also be a "person with a child" and many other things in life.

So I guess my conclusion is that I know that some people seem more sensitive about these things than I myself am, but I think that we sometimes got too hung up on being too "politically correct" to the point that it's ridiculous.

- from "the person who has a set of female reproductive organs and also has diabetes and participates in shop work that involves turning projects" AKA, the female diabetic turner!
 
Ummm, wow....
much ado about nothing, methinks.

Starting off with the serious - for me, political correctness can take a long walk off a short pier, and carry an defunct cast iron lathe with it :biggrin:.
That said, we should be careful to be tactful and courteous, but making a mountain out of a molehill with the word "guys" is crazy. Same for "mankind" - it's simply a combination of two words, "mank", and "ind", neither of which we have a clue what they mean...

Seeing as this was apparently a ploy by the OP, then I see why a big deal was made - to elicit a response, which I firmly believe is 90% of the reason for most of the "PC issues" in the news today (and not the kind of PCs I work on everyday :rolleyes:)



Now, onto the important stuff....


Mac said:
Ok lets face it (you guys) is a yankee thang.. We down here says (you all) combined as one word, youall. So my vote is to say youall. Which means all of youuns.
AceMrFixIt said:
I believe its spelled "yall".
Monty said:
It's "all ya'll"
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Remember: "Y'all" is singular. "All y'all" is plural. "All y'all's" is plural possessive.
 
Ya'll is also the definitive tell you have for people to know you're not from around these parts, when you grow up in Virginia and then move to places like Nebraska or California. Even if you don't have much of a southern accent, which I don't, that word gives away your background every time it comes out of your mouth!

(And thanks Dawn and Ed, it's nice to find some time to make it back.)
 
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