Arizona Silhouette - bad service

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I have ordered hundreds of kits for AS and always received them promptly and in good working order. Never had a problem.
 
By the temperature of this thread, you would think AS had screwed the OP out of a $100 order. I have been in his "store". He receives his boxes of kits from the supplier and they are stocked. As in every store. Do other retailers inspect every package they get when they receive it?

You went to "HIS" site, the policy is there and then you complain when he doesn't bend over and take it. The all the naysayers jump on the bandwagon. No, Bill isn't Ernie or PSI or CSUSA, but I believe if you order from him, you play by his rules. OK, I'm done.
 
I know that people are individuals and one size does not fit all. I am not an organized, predictable, or "follow the same routine" - type of person. While I have ordered from Bill and enjoyed the great service that I have gotten from him, the 5 day policy does not fit me or my work habits/values. My regular work and family time does not allow me to dictate predictable time sets. (My time schedule is usually a chaos by most standards, as I give priority in responding to the needs of, and helping others. :wink:)

Last spring I was back in the States for 30 days and had locations in TN, AR, TX, LA and MS to travel. I had ordered numerous items from several vendors and individuals to be shipped to my USA home in MS. I was there (MS) two days and one of those was spent at a doctors office for a medical/physical. So I had 24 hours to inspect packages from 12 different people/vendors/companies, in addition to separating luggage for travels and meeting family/friends.

I had ordered several small items from Nolan, which came in one box. I saw the different woods and was excited. Then about a week later, while in TX, It suddenly dawned on me that I had not seen any BOW blanks that I had ordered. I emailed Nolan and told him that I was not certain if I had them, but it would be another week before I would return. He told me not to worry, just check when I returned.

I returned to MS a week later and sure enough, no BOW in the box. I emailed again, and he sent them without a problem. This would not work under the 5 day rule. In fact, if a box/package comes in while a person is traveling on business or personal, they are plum out of luck.

Although I do check all orders initially, I do not always have the time immediately to check in detail. Having read this thread, I will closely inspect all purchases from Bill in the future. I think that the 5 day limit will be considered when purchasing in the future and this is good to know. 5 days is a little on the short side, IMO. Thanks for sharing this information.
 
Lets try to stay on topic, if you wish to discuss Walmart or their policies please take it over to Casual Conversations. Thank you
 
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I like your thinking . . .

skiprat said:
If I was absolutely positive that the part wasn't in the kit to begin with, then I'd just order another complete kit and contact the vendor within the 5 day period and say there was a part missing from that kit ( the new one ):rolleyes:
If he honoured it and sent a part then he would continue to get my business.

I once ordered some pens from CSUSA and they sent pencils instead. As they were more than willing to ship replacements and told me to keep the pencils, I reciprocated and told them just to send them with my next order. They said OK and thanks for saving them the shipping.
But I forgot about them for over six months and the next time I ordered stuff the pens were in the package!!!!:eek::biggrin:

I also wonder if the first person to openly complain about Steebar got it in the ear from his fellow turners:confused:
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I like your thinking . . .why don't you move across the pond, we sure need more non-sheeple people here . . . Thinking on your feet . . .

Steve
 
Not one to pile on, but really, how many of us inspect every kit for every part when the box shows up on the doorstep? Personally, I do a quick check that the kits, blanks, etc. are there and put them in the bins.

I guess that if a retailer wants to make policies like the "5 day rule", great, I will purchase from other retailers that I can trust to back their products and the purchases I make with my hard earned dollars. Thank you for pointing out AS market practices. I guess I won't need to go down that path.
 
babyblues said:
As potential customers, we tend to think the vendor's world should revolve around us because, after all, we represent revenue to them, right? Well, it might not seem like much to us for them to bend over backwards for one person, but imagine having to deal with that day in and day out. Even though they might have known that was what they were in for when they started their own business, we're not relieved of our responsibility as customers to be reasonable.

Imagine if we developed the reputation of being a horrible customer and businesses refused to sell to us? We wouldn't like being blackballed, so why do we think it's within our rights to hold that threat over small business owners heads? It's not Wal-Mart's fault small business is dying in this country. It's OUR fault. Anyway...how I veered this far off topic I don't know, lol.
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Actually, this is a preview of coming attractions!!

Software has been developed and is being used in some retail locations to track the people who return items to the store. The current plan is to have a return policy tailored to the "track record" of the customer. So, while I may be allowed to return anything, anytime (since I don't have a record of doing this), YOU may be denied return priveleges because you have used them too often (whatever TOO often is defined to mean).

Just read about it this week in the "trade magazines" for retailers.

Please don't discuss in this thread, but if you want to discuss it, we can start a different "casual conv".
 
Good Service from Arizona Silhoutte--- today

Wow,
Some thread!
As it happens, I had a very good customer service experience, today. I ordered an number of different kits and inadvertently ordered one kit and one drill that I couldn't use.
I emailed Arizona Silhoutte this afternoon, explained that it was my error, and asked if I could exchange the items for different pen kits. I got an email response within 2 hours. Is simply said, send em back in a sturdy box and we'll take care of it....... I couldn't be happier.
Steve:)
 
woodman928 said:
I got news for ya Wal-Mart absorbs nothing it all goes back on the vender so why would Wal-Mart care.
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Did you miss the part where I said I worked there, lol? First hand knowledge is hard to refute, lol. Not that I'm judging, but... Anyway...I digress.


willardz said:
Word of mouth can make or break a business!!
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Agreed, but wouldn't it be better to just go shop somewhere else? I mean, why contribute to potentially breaking the guy's business over something like this? No need other than for self gratification. Sorry to the original poster, but that's the way I see it. Bill's policy is clearly stated and he stuck to it. I'd be interested to know what precipitated the institution of that policy. Could be he's just trying to protect himself. Argue all you want about whether he should have made an exception or not, that policy puts it on the customer to check their merchandise. Besides, we don't know how this whole thing transpired between the two of them. Despite Bill's propensity to put people off with his gruff manner, I find it hard to believe he would decline good customer service for a lousy cigar nib. He's not an idiot. I'd be willing to bet there's more to this than what we've been told. I'm not making any accusations, so please don't take this the wrong way, just my observation.
 
I can't resist making two more comments.

Regarding Wal Mart's policy, it's the countless purchases made with the security that Wal Mart will do what it takes to make the customer happy that justifies this policy. They haven't dominated retail in the US (and perhaps the world) by accident.

Regarding AS's 5 day policy, it's just totally unreasonable in my opinion. If you ship quality products, why do you need a 5 day limit? What else is buried in the terms and conditions that most of us don't read in full anyway. I know making assumptions is a risky thing to do but I would submit that nearly every other supplier we frequent on this site has a much more pro-customer policy or at least practice.

I've had no issue with any supplier or individual I've dealt with on this site. And yes, I've done business successfully with AS but hearing about issues like these and considering the policies and attitude I've experienced, I will take my business where it appears to be really appreciated.

John
 
babyblues said:
Agreed, but wouldn't it be better to just go shop somewhere else? I mean, why contribute to potentially breaking the guy's business over something like this? No need other than for self gratification.
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I don't call it self gratification at all - for letting people know something that is a little out of the ordinary (5 days), and way down the page. I have ordered from him before and that was not there the last time I ordered from him (last time I was stateside for more than a month was summer '05 - spring of 06). I will still order when I return to the States, but it is good to know that his policy HAS changed from the last time I ordered. I see this as responsible reporting on behalf of others in a "community" setting here.

When things and policies change, not everyone gets full notification nor should everyone be expected to read everything every time they go back to a web page. Notices of changes are up to the proprietor for sure. As a first time user, I usually check these things out, but as a repeat customer, I think it is unreasonable to expect everyone to read for every change every time they go back to a frequented order site.

People often post here of changes at different vendors/web sites that they find - both good and bad. That is a great benefit of this forum and posts like this. Hiding or not revealing something about changes when you know it - is up to the individual. But "community" is also about sharing such information, both good and bad.

As I said, I will order from him when I return to the States, but I will also check each order in detail. If this post were not made, I could possibly be in the same situation. The idea that it could "contribute to potentially breaking the guy's business" should be balanced against informing people so that they know how to deal with the vendor/company. I am grateful that this was brought to the forefront.
 
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Never bought from him AND NEVER WILL now that I've read this thread.I usually don't read all the way through a thread.Not 6 pages worth anyway.

Think about it 5days. If I order from supplier I SHOULD be able to TRUST that supplier. Sounds to me like HE don't trust anyone.

I say the BEST service here is the original post! For letting everyone know just what to look for when buying from AS.JM2C
 
leehljp said:
I don't call it self gratification at all - for letting people know something that is a little out of the ordinary (5 days), and way down the page. I have ordered from him before and that was not there the last time I ordered from him. I will still order when I return to the States, but it is good to know that his policy HAS changed from the last time I ordered. I see this as responsible reporting on behalf of others in a "community" setting here.
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All he would have to do is literally say, "AS changed their return policy, they now give you 5 days to inspect your merchandise" or whatever. He didn't have to launch into a rant about how bad AS customer service was and all that. So, I disagree that he was being responsible on behalf of the community here.

leehljp said:
When things and policies change, not everyone gets full notification nor should everyone be expected to read everything every time they go back to a web page. Notices of changes are up to the proprietor for sure. As a first time user, I usually check these things out, but as a repeat customer, I think it is unreasonable to expect everyone to read for every change every time they go back to a frequented order site.
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So it's unreasonable to expect us to be 200% thorough as customers, but it's perfectly reasonable to expect the vendor to do the same? If we're unwilling or unable to inspect every piece of merchandise, than who are we to expect the vendor to do that for us?

leehljp said:
People often post here of changes at different vendors/web sites that they find - both good and bad. That is a great benefit of this forum and posts like this. Hiding or not revealing something about changes when you know it - is up to the individual. But "community" is also about sharing such information, both good and bad.

As I said, I will order from him when I return to the States, but I will also check each order in detail. If this post were not made, I could possibly be in the same situation. The idea that it could "contribute to potentially breaking the guy's business" should be balanced against informing people so that they know how to deal with the vendor/company. I am grateful that this was brought to the forefront.
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Good to know about the new policy, no doubt, but I absolutely do not believe the original poster in this thread had any intention of just informing us about the new policy, lol. There's no need to turn who knows how many people off to Bill's business just to tell us about some policy change. There was indeed a different agenda. Posting about changes to a website as a heads-up is one thing, throwing the vendor under the bus because we think that change is unfair to us personally is entirely self serving.
 
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The policy has been in place for some time. I know that Bill stapled a colored paper with the policy to the invoice (very hard to miss) shipped with the packages that I've received and its been a while since I last placed an order with him. Might not have ordered from him in about a year.
 
List

I bet I know some who is going on that list.Bill has some of the best wood on the internet
and some great kits. I know Bill very well and have seen how some people try to get a part replaced, for what ever reason.To slam a business for a .50 part that could easily been dropped or if it was missing his policy is in print for everyone to see. I am sure he was busy doing other things over the holidays himself. So do not but from him, it leaver more for the rest of us.
 
Interesting thread, indeed. I order from just about everyone -- A/S, CSUSA (support the Southwest!), PSI (more cheesesteaks and hoagies for America!), a bunch of the vendors on this site (support the IAP!), eBay (support entrepreneurism!). All of them make mistakes from time to time. Unless it's a BIG mistake, I just inform them of the problem and let them tell me how they are going to deal with it. Their answer determines my future dealings with them.

I think it's probably germane to remember that we're talking about a $3.99 kit here. Pretty cheap lesson. Since I've ruined a fair share of kits in my day, I have a fairly large baggie filled with spare parts from various kits. Let me know which color nib (gold or black -- I don't have any Ti's, unfortunately) was missing and I'll send you one. Gratis. I'll even pay the shipping. All we, like sheep, have gone astray.

But what about the principle of the thing? Well, more stomach acid has been generated maintaining principles than fixing things. Let it go.

My $0.02.
Doug
PS -- I'm serous about the tip.
 
Bill is a great guy and he runs a terrific business. I buy from him all the time and will continue do so. He used to contribute on this site, but he dropped when people kept flaming him unfairly for not being chatty and friendly enough to suit everyone's sensibilities. Threads like this are the reason why the IAP lost a very solid, contributing member. The man has a clearly stated return policy as is his right. It is simply unreasonable to say that he is providing bad customer service when he stands by his written return policy. If you don't like it, don't buy from him. I can absolutely guarantee you that if he were still a member, he would post here to say that a customer who does not read the return policy, does not inspect the goods upon delivery, and then takes the time to post a thread flaming him for it, is not a customer that he wants to keep anyway.
 
I'll spin it another way - for those of you who sell pens, if your customer purchased a pen as a gift and found that after the 6th day, the clip was scratched or the acrylic had sanding marks in it, or the hinge on the box they purchased to go along with it failed - would you refund it, replace it, or tell the customer that there is nothing you can do because your policy on returns/refunds/replacements is only 5 days?

If the later, would you expect a repeat purchase from said customer?

Again, I'm not knocking AZS service because I have had only one dealing with the company and it was fine, however there are two arguments here: the first is in regards to one person's experience with AZS, the other is if it is proper to make public forum comments about said experience. I'll continue to purchase from AZS when it makes sense for me to do so, if it becomes a problem I will not purchase from AZS - the same holds true for any other supplier out there. I'm impartial.

However to tell someone it is improper make public forum comments regarding negative service from a vendor is completely absurd. If it is improper to make negative comments about a vendor then it should be improper to make positive comments about a vendor too, using that logic.

Regarding Service - If you're in the business of selling something and you don't inspect what you are selling, especially considering you are hand filling your shipments, you're going to loose business regardless of what someone posts on an internet forum. If all your competitor needs to do to gain your customers is inspect their shipments - you can bet that they will succeed in gaining your dwindling market share.

I fully expect that my customer will not inspect his/her product 200% - what separates me from my competitors is that I inspect my product 200% before I send it out the door. Doing that alone has proven, via repeat customers, that my product is superior to other products out there and satisfies or exceeds my customer's expectations.
 
I buy from Bill. I will continue to buy from Bill. I like Bill and I like his products...and yes, I like his customer service....but I play by his rules and he treats me likewise. His return policy is not new and is on the website for all to read. I've been getting the notes stapled to receipts for almost two years or so. He has his rules and he has them for a reason. I buy from him and I play by his rules. I don't have any right to consider his company rules as fair or not. His business and his rules. Personally, I think this thread has run its course.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 
Looks like I have come in on the tail end here.
My view of this thread is--IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSTED SO EARLY--
Why? because when we say something like this it affects an individuals income-his and his company's livelihood.
I think firstly, you should have followed up with phone calls etcetra, to resolve the situation, explain how you were not able to get to check everything in time,(PS sometimes i don't get to a kit for 6 months or so)
If after satisfactory approaches were exhausted, you maybe could have taken the course you took here.
I am overseas and am saddened that we cannot get direct access to the wonderful goods Bill sells. So i get them shipped to a friend in USA and he forwards them to me.
On my part the service and goods were excellent- , there seems to be an abnomally here that really needs to be sorted out privately.
As a courtesy to others, it is always best to try to sort things out privately.
PS I have nothing against you personally- from my own personal experience with other companies I KNOW what it feels like. Hope you take this in the spirit that I give it, your fellow turner, Amos
 
I have to put my two cents worth in on this. I have not purchased from AS but it appears he is a reseller of the kits on his site just as others resell PSI kits and such. It has been my experience that from time to time because these kits are mass produced that pieces can get left out. When this has happened to me
I've contacted the vendor and let them know about my problem and asked them if they can help correct it (96% effective) and if not who is the vendor they buy from so I can contact them to inquire about a replacement/repair piece.
I suspect that AS doesn't carry extra parts to every kit they sell nor should they have to. Maybe if you asked them for the vendor they deal with this would help and not infringe on their five day rule.
I also believe that if you can help a customer with a problem they will be a repeat customer because of this "extra" service.
 
jimbob91577 said:
I'll spin it another way - for those of you who sell pens, if your customer purchased a pen as a gift and found that after the 6th day, the clip was scratched or the acrylic had sanding marks in it, or the hinge on the box they purchased to go along with it failed - would you refund it, replace it, or tell the customer that there is nothing you can do because your policy on returns/refunds/replacements is only 5 days?

If the later, would you expect a repeat purchase from said customer?
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What's the point of a policy then? Explain this to me. Why is this so hard to understand? If said customer disregards a policy that I have laid out for them, why would I want to deal with them again? Why do you feel they should have the right to dictate my policies for me?

jimbob91577 said:
However to tell someone it is improper make public forum comments regarding negative service from a vendor is completely absurd. If it is improper to make negative comments about a vendor then it should be improper to make positive comments about a vendor too, using that logic.
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Did Bill do anything wrong by sticking to his policy? No. So "negative service from a vendor" is not applicable to this conversation. Libel and slander are punishable offenses under our legal system. Is that absurd? No, I think not. There are also no laws against complementing someone publicly instead of tearing them down. Should there be? According to you, there should be. Making highly subjective and questionable comments in public that are detrimental to someone's business is never OK.

jimbob91577 said:
Regarding Service - If you're in the business of selling something and you don't inspect what you are selling, especially considering you are hand filling your shipments, you're going to loose business regardless of what someone posts on an internet forum. If all your competitor needs to do to gain your customers is inspect their shipments - you can bet that they will succeed in gaining your dwindling market share.

I fully expect that my customer will not inspect his/her product 200% - what separates me from my competitors is that I inspect my product 200% before I send it out the door. Doing that alone has proven, via repeat customers, that my product is superior to other products out there and satisfies or exceeds my customer's expectations.
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What if you made hundreds of pens a month? Do you think it's likely you'd miss something somewhere along the way? I'll bet Bill does inspect what goes out the door. But alas, being human, he's prone to make mistakes every once in a while. Again, this isn't about negative customer service, this is about a negative response to his return policy. Or his decision to stick to his policy, I should say. Which brings me again to the question: What's the point of a policy if everyone thinks you should disregard it for them?
 
WoodenInk said:
Looks like I have come in on the tail end here.
My view of this thread is--IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSTED SO EARLY--
Why? because when we say something like this it affects an individuals income-his and his company's livelihood.
I think firstly, you should have followed up with phone calls etcetra, to resolve the situation, explain how you were not able to get to check everything in time,(PS sometimes i don't get to a kit for 6 months or so)
If after satisfactory approaches were exhausted, you maybe could have taken the course you took here.
I am overseas and am saddened that we cannot get direct access to the wonderful goods Bill sells. So i get them shipped to a friend in USA and he forwards them to me.
On my part the service and goods were excellent- , there seems to be an abnomally here that really needs to be sorted out privately.
As a courtesy to others, it is always best to try to sort things out privately.
PS I have nothing against you personally- from my own personal experience with other companies I KNOW what it feels like. Hope you take this in the spirit that I give it, your fellow turner, Amos
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I have also bought from Bill, over the years (even when he did ship overseas) and never had any problems.

I now have to do the same as all other people who don't live in the US, get them sent to a somebody in the US (which i am glad to say there is always people on this forum to help me out:biggrin:).

But how does this policy apply to me and other international turners.
Is it five days from the time it is delivered to the person in the US (this would be the address i have have requested to have it sent to so i believe it would be)
If this is the case it would be impossible for me to check the order within five days, as it wouldn't get me within the time frame.:confused:
 
If you talk to enough people you can get a bad reveiw about any company.
I haven't bought anything from CSUSA in over a year because of bad customer service------this tread really has little meaning.
 
Well, as the Original Poster, I'll add one last comment to this thread and then I hope it just dies out.

My intention of the original post was to inform people of what I perceived as bad customer service resulting from the missing piece and a very restrictive return policy. I respect his right to determine his own policies based on his own business model and previous experience. But I don't have to agree with them.

I'm glad it had the added benefit of informing others of the 5 day policy. Many have stated that it was clear as day and right there in black and white but many others who have been ordering from him said they weren't aware of it. So although not necessarily my original intent, I'm glad that info got out.

Another IAP member (several actually offered) is sending me the part I need, so the missing part issue is resolved and I hope that this thread dies as well since it gets off track and comes very close to personal attacks. My intent was never to generate in-fighting on IAP, just to inform of my experience.

This will be my last post in this thread but I hope to still be welcome on IAP to contribute or ask questions.

Thanks for everyone's feedback and offers of help!

Mike
 
Gary Max said:
If you talk to enough people you can get a bad reveiw about any company.
I haven't bought anything from CSUSA in over a year because of bad customer service------this tread really has little meaning.
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This is best response I have read. If you talk to enough people you will find someone who has had a problem with most of them. If a company does not treat me right I just don't spend my money with them.While I don't agree with AS policy I don't feel like you can call it bad service just for following their policy.I will have to say that it is their right to follow their policy although in this instance I personally would have made it right to keep a customer,but thats just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.
 
I deal mostly with PSI. As pen turning is more of a hobbie for me (a great one!!) I really am not a big $ purchaser from them. Once I called them because the twist mech in a cigar pen didn't seem to work "smoothly". They sent me THREE OF THEM.... no questions asked. The second call was because I crushed a coupler while pressing it in. They sent me THREE SETS (6) OF COUPLERS...... no questions asked.

I appreciate this type of service and therefore will continue to do business with them.

As for the 5 day policy, that would not work for me and I'm glad that policy was brought to my attention.
 
Gary Max said:
If you talk to enough people you can get a bad reveiw about any company.
I haven't bought anything from CSUSA in over a year because of bad customer service------this tread really has little meaning.
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I agree with you mostly on that Gary. I guess it might open some folks eyes to AS policy, and the fact that Bill sticks to the letter of the policy. I for one wasn't aware of the policy simply because I never went looking for it so I now I know.

I've purchased from AS, PSI CSUSA and others and have had what I would term frustrations with all of them at some point. Do I think Bill could have done a better job handling this situation... yes but knowing Bill... well if you know Bill you know what to expect. :biggrin: I don't think Bill's going to score high in the customer service category, but his service and product has been better than what I've received from some suppliers.

I seriously doubt this will have any effect on Bill's business and I don't think that was Mike's intention. This thread puts others on notice as to what they could experience should they deal with AS and not be aware of the policy. The customer service can be (but not always) a bit draconian and that's neither good or bad... it just is. Someone new to this site and / or new to pen turning would probably find value in that.
 
redbulldog said:
It sounds like you want to blame A/S for your mistake! That is one of the troubles with our society today, blame someone else for any thing bad that has happened to us. Why not own up to the truth, it was your mistake not A/S!!!!!
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I have to respectfully disagree with you here.

How is it his mistake that AS didn't insure that all the parts were in the package, in the first place? They expect their customers to 'inspect' the merchandise within 5 days, why are they not inspecting their merchandise before they ship it out? How many of us open and count all the parts in a package? I know I don't, and I'm sure most others don't.

In an instance like this, where it is such a little insignifiant piece, to AS, I see it as good customer service to take care of something like that.

So many companies don't see that providing good customer service is the way to keep customers.

I would rather go against 'policy' to insure I don't lose a customer. In business a happy customer may only tell a couple of people but an unhappy one will tell anyone who will listen.

I haven't had any problems with AS but I may well hesitate before ordering from a company that is inflexible in their policies.

Just my 2 cents.
 
well if it was me. if i was so posotive that the item was not in the bag and he gave me that reply, i would never use them again. simple as that.
 
I have to say that I agree with the OP. I think AS is a good vendor and even though I've had my own issues I'll continue to use them.

However, putting the QA duties on the customer to make sure that there aren't any issues with the kits and giving them only a 5 day window (tiny, given how busy peoples lives are), that's rediculous. Certainly, there are people who will take advantage of that, but I think there's more people who will come back to a vendor if they are willing to make it right.

I got a chrome comfort grip click pen from AS, and the clip was the wrong one. I don't remember if it was after 5 days from the inspection date, but I contacted AS to explain the issue. I had to go round-and-round on it to get him to send me the correct clip, after which he advised me that I should have had extra parts anyways...

Contrast that with PSI, where I emailed them about the cost of a replacement Atlas transmision for a kit I didn't even buy from them. They gave me a price, but then asked for my address and sent me the transmission for free!

Like I said, I like AS, and I'll continue to order from them- I actually had an order of about 40 kits from them a few months ago. And no, I didn't check each and every one of them. Especially the slimlines, where the parts are all in one bag together. If I have any issues, I'll take people's advice and either note it on the next order or I'll just eat the cost (especially on a slimline).
 
I have not been doing many pens for the last couple of years. I did order a dozen pens from Bill (AS) in November.
Bill made a mistake on two pens. Bill covered the mistake and sent two new pens to me, no charge.
Bill does have good customer service, if you play by his policy.
I will order from Bill in the future.
Ellis
 
The first thing you need to do is talk to Bill... he is very gruff and abrupt, but I've found him to be helpful and willing to work with you... I don't do a lot with him, but he is the only source for the Baron that I like to do... before you bash him and in essence cut off the nose to spite your face, talk to him... face to face communications is always the first and best policy.
 
Wow, when i saw this post yesterday there were 3 responses...now 75! IMHO the original problem, while perhaps frustrating to the original poster, did not call for posting negative feedback ( can you tell i use ebay??) especially since the policy is stated in writing. If you do not like how someone runs their buz don't buy from them, but I do feel it was out of line to start the post in the first place....especially over a $4 kit.

Glad I took the time to make 6 pens since the 1st post instead.

enjoy the snow boys...At least if you are in New England today
 
I stood back and watched this thread develop and now have a couple of opinions.

Where does the need to ensure that all parts are properly packaged?

AS buys them from Berea. If some of this philosophy holds true, shouldn't Berea be held accountable to Bill to ensure all parts are packaged? Likewise, Berea buys the kits from overseas. Should the manufaturer be accountable to Berea. We should then be contacting the manufacturer for any missing pieces.

The realism is that Bill, Ernie, Woodcraft, or whoever buys the kits from Berea with a good faith belief that all parts are included. Can we expect any reseller to inspect each bag when they are buying hundreds at a time?

We as end consumers buy small numbers and can afford to spend a few minutes when we receive the order to ensure everything is as it should be. If the 5 day inspection time doesn't sit well for some, okay, then find someone where the time is acceptable.

I do remember a similar thread a few months ago discussing some of these very same issues. It was amazing what people then admitted to doing in returning items to a business. Those same types of reasons are why folks like Bill have to set some stringent policies.

Now, if the OP had gotten his issue resolved to his satisfaction, the same OP could have posted what great customer service he received. This would have raised questions with many others who didn't get the same treatment.

And one last comment for those brand new folks who have made a buying decison about AS from this thread. If you opt to not to buy from AS because of the 5 day policy or reported poor customer service....you're missing out on one of the best suppliers available. Bill helped me get started years ago when he had fewer customers and could spend an hour talking about the latest blanks he just had stabilized. His business has grown tremendously for a reason. Don't loose out on an ability to buy quality materials from someone that has helped shape this hobby/business.
 
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