Alt Rhodium
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SabertoothBunny
Member
Rhodium is a platinum alloy. It is commonly used in the jewelry industry to plate white gold because white gold has a yellow tint because it is still gold and not truly white. Being a platinum allow would make the kits more expensive hence the price of $35.
I know, but this says "Alt Rhodium". Most rhodium has disappeared from the pen making kits for awhile now, due to the insane price increase of it. My question is, what is ALT Rhodium?
Ted iin Michigan
Member
The price of Rhodium continues to rise like all elements in the Platinum group so alternatives (ALT?) are being introduced. One I found is called PTLUX. It is advertised as an alternative (ALT?) to Rhodium. Betcha there are others.
Maybe I am misunderstanding...but, Rhodium is an element, not an alloy... It is part of the "platinum group", so sometimes its called a "platinum group metal", but it's not actually an alloy. At least, not on its own, it is a pure element on its own. If it was sputtered onto white gold, it would be an alloy of Rhodium and Gold at that point.... Maybe you are trying to say something different here?
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Curious about this, I did some searching. Only other time I came across Altrhodium was on a german site, where...I think it might mean "fine rhodium"? I'm skeptical though...
I wonder if this is in the same vein as "gold hardite" which is an alternative goldish-colored plating that isn't actually gold at all? :\ Its too bad the precious metals are getting so expensive. Real precious metals add something that no other plating can to a pen.
monophoto
Member
Agree with Jon - Rhodium is an element (metal), not an alloy. But frankly, this sounds to me like marketing language. For example, it's illegal to actually sell ivory, so now they advertise stuff as 'alt ivory', but in fact it's really just plastic.
I seem to recall that some of the supposedly superior alternative 'metal' platings are actually a ceramic coating rather than metal. I wonder if that is the case here.
Although, to be honest, some ceramics are pretty tough, and if they look nice, might actually be a better choice for something that gets a lot of wear.
I seem to recall that some of the supposedly superior alternative 'metal' platings are actually a ceramic coating rather than metal. I wonder if that is the case here.
Although, to be honest, some ceramics are pretty tough, and if they look nice, might actually be a better choice for something that gets a lot of wear.
Hence my question.....what is it?
It is interesting...I've found a number of jewelry items listed as "rhodium alt" or "rhodium finish alt". I am not sure if alt is actually a part of the plating designation or not, honestly.
I am wondering if this has to do with exactly how the plating is applied. At least for jewelry, and this may differ from pens, there seem to be some accepted ways of applying the plating. It is mostly electroplated (not as good as sputtering), and there can be different "underplatings" that are recommended. Some jewelers seem to always recommend an underplating of gold, topped by nickel, before the rhodium itself. This apparently produces a better and more durable bonding overall, since the layers are just electroplated and not sputtered. Another combination is yellow gold and sterling silver, overplated in rhodium.
I wonder if alt rhodium has to do with how it is plated. Not knowing if alt rhodium is better or worse (more costly or cheaper) than regular rhodium plating, I guess it could go both ways. Maybe its a more durable approach to plating? Perhaps its a less reliable approach... :\
Has anyone made a pen that carried the alt rhodium designation? I honestly had never seen it listed anywhere before today. It looks good in the picture, but we all know pictures can sometimes be deceiving and they cannot divulge anything about durability.
jttheclockman
Member
No one has answered. All guesses. Ed from Exotics needs to step up to the plate and if he has answers to what is happening with platings these days. He has so many customers from here that he needs to help us information wise. I know these are Dayacom kits but he deals with them also Psi is introducing new coatings. These new coating have alot to do with the fact with the war we can not get many different metals. Also prices are through the roof if you can get them. What are we looking at, what are the differences, what are the downfalls, and are the prices reflective to the material in use? Questions that need answering and not guesses.
egnald
Member
There are a host of alternatives for Rhodium when it comes to decorative properties (in contrast to physical/chemical properties). For example, Bright Palladium which although is still very expensive, is less expensive than Rhodium. It plates pretty much the same as Rhodium and gives a similar tarnish free, bright white metal finish. The same is true for some Platinum & Ruthenium based plating solutions and some that are Platinum/Rhodium alloys. Of course straight Palladium or Platinum can also stand in for Rhodium, but I would assume that they would be marketed as what they are instead of Alt Rhodium.
I know it doesn't answer your question specifically, but I think John T. is correct that a more definitive answer must come from someone closer to the manufacturer (Dayacom).
Regards,
Dave
I know it doesn't answer your question specifically, but I think John T. is correct that a more definitive answer must come from someone closer to the manufacturer (Dayacom).
Regards,
Dave
I searched the Dayacom website and although they list that plating on some of their pens, I dont find any information specifically about the plating.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
If I had a good answer. I would give it. So far, the answers I have gotten are great marketing--not so great otherwise. I continue to look for more information and will share it when and IF I KNOW what I am talking about.
We have been quoted on alt Rhodium, to date we do not handle this option.
jttheclockman
Member
Thanks Ed. Being you are dealing with various dealers I went to you in hopes you could enlighten us. I hate the guessing game. As of now myself, I have enough kits to last for some time but am sure I will find myself in the same boat as to wondering what all these new platings actually are. Thanks.
SabertoothBunny
Member
Yes, it is a language issue for understanding. The word "alloy" is simple and understandable when speaking with customers and educating them on jewelry. It is easier to describe rhodium as an alloy rather then getting into a science lesson on what an element is.
In the case of ivory, you can still buy/sell ivory jewelry and other products created before 1990 when the ivory trade was officially made illegal. You can inherit ivory as well in the US. Some US states and countries have completely banned the sell of ivory in all of its facets. There are a few countries that still produce ivory products but those are strictly regulated. The bottom line it is a very fine line and highly regulated "trade" if that is an accurate term today.
SabertoothBunny
Member
It is likely a alternative metal used to whiten the pens in the same way rhodium has been used in the past but is more cost effective. It could be something like palladium or a hardened silver.
thewishman
Member
ed4copies, please allow me to apologize for the above rude DEMAND for information. Thank you for sharing what you know.
I'd like to know more about the new plating as well. Hopefully someone will find out and share with us.
If I may, in several languages alt means high or old. In German I believe it has a cultural such as the dialect i.e. high German. In Italian it could mean old style. So maybe it means the old style rhodium or original. Just a thought.
SteveJ
Member
I didn't see JT's post as a demand as much as a plea for someone most likely to have an answer instead of a guess to chime in. Hopefully Ed didn't take offense.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
After over a decade of participation and over 24000 entries, it's pretty hard to get me to take offense.
Please realize I will contribute only if I KNOW what I am saying is correct. Also, realize I am a huge skeptic. I don't KNOW what alternate Rhodium is, nor do I KNOW what Hardite is, I just watch the conversation and look for clues. Same as most everyone!! When I get better information that I can corroborate, I will be happy to tell you what I KNOW, not what I speculate.
Please realize I will contribute only if I KNOW what I am saying is correct. Also, realize I am a huge skeptic. I don't KNOW what alternate Rhodium is, nor do I KNOW what Hardite is, I just watch the conversation and look for clues. Same as most everyone!! When I get better information that I can corroborate, I will be happy to tell you what I KNOW, not what I speculate.
I think most people understand the difference between an alloy and an element... Our education system isn't THAT bad yet!! Or at least...I certainly HOPE its not THAT bad yet.....!! :\
Thanks for the insight! The only other times I came across alt paired with rhodium was on german jewelry or jewelry material sites, as far as I could tell. It was one word, altrhodium. Sometimes it was altrhodium-feinrhodium I think.
jttheclockman
Member
Never EVER apologize for anything I said now or in the future. I did not mean it as a demand but Ed at times posts things to his web site and we all do not see them because we do not follow. But if he posts to the general masses which is here it would greatly help us all. Who better to ask than someone who deals with all the various vendors. Maybe he has insight because people maybe asking him behind close doors. Jon answering and others telling us about alloys and different things helps only those who know chemistry. I never had it in school. . Break it down into simple terms so we can understand. As I mentioned there must be factors for these so called changes. Are they for the better or are they the pen vendors trying to get one over on us. The way I see it, it looks like they are trying to fill a void that is happening. As I and many others here have gotten use to what kits look like with certain platings and now we open another avenue we all must become aware of as we continue selling our items. That is my point.
Ed thanks for not taking it as a demand but as a important question that does need addressing and hopefully your connections can help us all.
Would also like to thank the OP for bringing to light this subject that I am sure will continue to grow with more vendors doing some switching.
Good question. Are we going to have to pay rhodium prices for an inferior product or is it on par with actual rhodium? If it looks good yet doesn't hold up, not a reasonable trade off, in my book.
jttheclockman
Member
And unfortunately this maybe something we as penturners now will have to track on our own and keep others informed.
monophoto
Member
Here's a thread from 2021 that discusses plating durability.
The thread contains a post of a page from the 2014 CSUSA catalog that discussed their view of various plating options. That page is very dated at this point, but it does provide an interesting frame of reference.
The thread contains a post of a page from the 2014 CSUSA catalog that discussed their view of various plating options. That page is very dated at this point, but it does provide an interesting frame of reference.
DrD
Member
More than a year ago when Berea Hardwood first began to replace Titanium Gold plated furniture with "Hardite" plated(?) furniture, I called and asked what's going on. Jim was not there at the time of my call, and of course, Larry was long gone. I've got no idea who I was speaking with.
I was told, first and foremost that "Hardite" was a better finish than TiG; not don't try to "sales Sonics" and old peddler. When I hear features, advantages and benefits line of response to my question, it immediately translated that response to something like, "well, to keep costs down, this is the best we could find." And this was ultimately what the conversation led me to believe.
I have talked to no one about Alt Rhodium. Rhodium is considered quite rare; it is found principally in Russia (Ural Mountains) and South Africa. The demand for Rhodium is quite high - catalytic converters, cracking tower catalysts, etc. - and I suspect - I do NOT follow the markets - it has become 1) hard to get in reliable quantities and 2) has become prohibitively expensive to use in $25+ pen kits, hence the need for an alternative plating.
I seem to remember, a number of years back a pen kit supplier got into somewhat of a kerfuffel over the use of "platinum" either as a coating or as a plating on its' pen kit furniture. They ultimately changed the name of the finish, but I can't recall the exact nature of the actual issue.
The use of "Alt" may be a way of not repeating that type of thing, especially if compositional changes to the plating formula - recipe - may have changed. Like many other things here in the USA, there may not be a government definition for "Alt Rhodium" plating - a government Standard of Identity, nor do I know of any recognized trade designation for "Alt Rhodium." So, who knows what it could be. My bet is it's not as durable nor suitable for use as Rhodium/Platinum/Palladium.
DrD
I was told, first and foremost that "Hardite" was a better finish than TiG; not don't try to "sales Sonics" and old peddler. When I hear features, advantages and benefits line of response to my question, it immediately translated that response to something like, "well, to keep costs down, this is the best we could find." And this was ultimately what the conversation led me to believe.
I have talked to no one about Alt Rhodium. Rhodium is considered quite rare; it is found principally in Russia (Ural Mountains) and South Africa. The demand for Rhodium is quite high - catalytic converters, cracking tower catalysts, etc. - and I suspect - I do NOT follow the markets - it has become 1) hard to get in reliable quantities and 2) has become prohibitively expensive to use in $25+ pen kits, hence the need for an alternative plating.
I seem to remember, a number of years back a pen kit supplier got into somewhat of a kerfuffel over the use of "platinum" either as a coating or as a plating on its' pen kit furniture. They ultimately changed the name of the finish, but I can't recall the exact nature of the actual issue.
The use of "Alt" may be a way of not repeating that type of thing, especially if compositional changes to the plating formula - recipe - may have changed. Like many other things here in the USA, there may not be a government definition for "Alt Rhodium" plating - a government Standard of Identity, nor do I know of any recognized trade designation for "Alt Rhodium." So, who knows what it could be. My bet is it's not as durable nor suitable for use as Rhodium/Platinum/Palladium.
DrD
I realized I was only searching for "alt" rhodium before. I tossed in "alternative rhodium" and came up with some interesting results. Still guesswork here of course, but, interesting nevertheless. There is one particular "alternative rhodium" plating that is an alloy of patinum and rhodium. Only Umicore seems to have it, and their newer version "One" apparently relies on even less rhodium.
mds.umicore.com
In this case, its not pure rhodium, hence the "alternative" I guess, but it is alloyed with patinum, so its still a precious metal plating, and all out of that closely knit group of non-corrosive metals. In my travels it seems like rhodium is generally preferred as a plating over platinum. I'm not really sure why. A LOT of this comes from the jewelry industry though, and I am not sure how much of the science and expectations behind it all actually apply to pen kits.
In any case...I think there are different definitions and expectations when it comes to what plating is "superior"... I know Berea seems to think their Hardite plating is superior. In some respects, perhaps it does last longer and is more scratch resistant to real gold alloys. However, if someone is actually looking for REAL PRECIOUS metals in their pens...then no non-precious metal alternative is ever going to be superior. You can't replace precious with mundane and expect it to be received just the same... Doesn't matter how much more durable it is. TiGold is, from my research, extremely durable. Even if Hardite is 100x better, how much does that matter if what it's replacing is already "extremely" durable, AND has the real precious metals aspect?
I'm concerned about the trends. I understand the pain of increasing commodity prices, but at the same time, I kind of like the approach this Umicore company took...instead of replacing precious metals entirely, they found a way to reduce the cost while still using precious metals, including the key one (i.e. rhodium in this case). Gold in particular is a key one for just that look and feel, and the sense of true luxury. Eliminating gold from their products, IMO, is not worth infinite durability, and I hope the manufacturers will catch wind of that and take note... I'm already very, very concerned I may lose one of my favorite kits, Tritons, because as far as I can tell Berea manufactures them, and I'm not sure they will be manufacturing any more with real gold. I don't like the look of Hardite, so I may just be SOL. :\
Hope it doesn't end up being the same with rhodium, or platinum, or their alloys.
Unique rhodium alternative for small batches
In this case, its not pure rhodium, hence the "alternative" I guess, but it is alloyed with patinum, so its still a precious metal plating, and all out of that closely knit group of non-corrosive metals. In my travels it seems like rhodium is generally preferred as a plating over platinum. I'm not really sure why. A LOT of this comes from the jewelry industry though, and I am not sure how much of the science and expectations behind it all actually apply to pen kits.
In any case...I think there are different definitions and expectations when it comes to what plating is "superior"... I know Berea seems to think their Hardite plating is superior. In some respects, perhaps it does last longer and is more scratch resistant to real gold alloys. However, if someone is actually looking for REAL PRECIOUS metals in their pens...then no non-precious metal alternative is ever going to be superior. You can't replace precious with mundane and expect it to be received just the same... Doesn't matter how much more durable it is. TiGold is, from my research, extremely durable. Even if Hardite is 100x better, how much does that matter if what it's replacing is already "extremely" durable, AND has the real precious metals aspect?
I'm concerned about the trends. I understand the pain of increasing commodity prices, but at the same time, I kind of like the approach this Umicore company took...instead of replacing precious metals entirely, they found a way to reduce the cost while still using precious metals, including the key one (i.e. rhodium in this case). Gold in particular is a key one for just that look and feel, and the sense of true luxury. Eliminating gold from their products, IMO, is not worth infinite durability, and I hope the manufacturers will catch wind of that and take note... I'm already very, very concerned I may lose one of my favorite kits, Tritons, because as far as I can tell Berea manufactures them, and I'm not sure they will be manufacturing any more with real gold. I don't like the look of Hardite, so I may just be SOL. :\
Hope it doesn't end up being the same with rhodium, or platinum, or their alloys.
sorcerertd
Member
If nothing else, I guess it's safe to say that it's not Rhodium. I know that doesn't help anyone, but there it is.
Sly Dog
Member
After reading this thread, I emailed Dayacom asking "what is alt rhodium?" and received this reply from an assistant manager:
"Alternative rhodium plating solution is describe as follows:
This plating solution is composed of special formula which can make plated parts with unique white luster and
can improve corrosion resistance. It's means this plating solution not only increase the hardness but also increase
covering properties of plated parts, therefore, it is not easy to fade or peel off. Suitable for using on high-end jewelry, premium eyeglasses frames and various components. Especially advanced countries like Europe is prohibit nickel plating that is sensitive to the skin, this problem can be easily solved by replacing the nickel layer with alternative rhodium plating solution."
So there you have it…a special formula. If Dayacom knows what it is, they're not sharing it with your average shlep like me.
"Alternative rhodium plating solution is describe as follows:
This plating solution is composed of special formula which can make plated parts with unique white luster and
can improve corrosion resistance. It's means this plating solution not only increase the hardness but also increase
covering properties of plated parts, therefore, it is not easy to fade or peel off. Suitable for using on high-end jewelry, premium eyeglasses frames and various components. Especially advanced countries like Europe is prohibit nickel plating that is sensitive to the skin, this problem can be easily solved by replacing the nickel layer with alternative rhodium plating solution."
So there you have it…a special formula. If Dayacom knows what it is, they're not sharing it with your average shlep like me.
monophoto
Member
in other words, its 'special sauce' combined with pixie dust, and costs less than real rhodiumAfter reading this thread, I emailed Dayacom asking "what is alt rhodium?" and received this reply from an assistant manager:
"Alternative rhodium plating solution is describe as follows:
This plating solution is composed of special formula which can make plated parts with unique white luster and
can improve corrosion resistance. It's means this plating solution not only increase the hardness but also increase
covering properties of plated parts, therefore, it is not easy to fade or peel off. Suitable for using on high-end jewelry, premium eyeglasses frames and various components. Especially advanced countries like Europe is prohibit nickel plating that is sensitive to the skin, this problem can be easily solved by replacing the nickel layer with alternative rhodium plating solution."
So there you have it…a special formula. If Dayacom knows what it is, they're not sharing it with your average shlep like me.
MRDucks2
Member
Hey, we have most all eaten the secret recipe in Kentucky Fried Chicken. Surely we can buy Alt Rhodium with the same confidence. 
Thanks for going to the trouble of contacting the sourceAfter reading this thread, I emailed Dayacom asking "what is alt rhodium?" and received this reply from an assistant manager:
"Alternative rhodium plating solution is describe as follows:
This plating solution is composed of special formula which can make plated parts with unique white luster and
can improve corrosion resistance. It's means this plating solution not only increase the hardness but also increase
covering properties of plated parts, therefore, it is not easy to fade or peel off. Suitable for using on high-end jewelry, premium eyeglasses frames and various components. Especially advanced countries like Europe is prohibit nickel plating that is sensitive to the skin, this problem can be easily solved by replacing the nickel layer with alternative rhodium plating solution."
So there you have it…a special formula. If Dayacom knows what it is, they're not sharing it with your average shlep like me.
I haven't been bold enough to try their new plant based, no chicken KFC.Hey, we have most all eaten the secret recipe in Kentucky Fried Chicken. Surely we can buy Alt Rhodium with the same confidence.
jttheclockman
Member
And that is part of the equation but also what do they look like side by side?? Are the pricing levels going to be the same?? Why the need to change. I do not like the word white in the statement. Going to have to follow this here as more members are forced to buy these type kits. Hopefully there will be a track record with experiences.
I got to thinking about this, we as penmakers are probably more attuned to it than your average pen buyer. I would guess most sales are based on looks alone and the materials are somewhat unimportant to a buyer. Everyone knows what chrome, gold, silver, etc. look like. Probably very few have even heard of rhodium. But still if I have two similar pens, one rhodium and one alt rhodium and they are the same price, will they look at one being inferior? Time will tell, of course you don't necessarily have to sell them together at the same venue, that in itself will be a pain in the butt.
rixstix
Member
"White", as a descriptor, is not a bad thing in precious metals market. Argentium Sterling is marketed as the brightest and whitest Sterling available. Nickel is used to brighten & whiten silver-filled products.
No insider knowledge. Just a guess. I would not be surprised if alt rhodium is a variant of Umicore's Rhoduna-plating alloy which has rhodium and ruthenium
Rhoduna link
RHODUNA®-Alloy 1 Rhodium-Ruthenium Electrolyte
Discover everything you need to know about RHODUNA®-Alloy 1 Rhodium-Ruthenium Electrolyte by Umicore Metal Deposition Solutions.
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sorcerertd
Member
The plating formerly known as Rhodium? Maybe whatever was mixed with the platinum to make the Rhodium version (alloy?), but without the platinum? Oh, so many questions and options. I suppose we can call it "Proprietary plating that is more durable than chrome" (or is it?)