Which World we are living in ....?

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I think the really interesting thing about this thread is that it has not been shut down by the mods. The anti-gunners haven't tried to pry the guns out of the cold dead fingers of the gunners ..... nor have the gun toting members tried to shoot up the place. We've been able to carry on three pages of posts that represent extremely different positions. Sure, it's taken a little humor and restraint on our part and we won't ever reach consensus ... but, it's all been done in a rather friendly environment. Maybe if we got our the planet's leaders to start turning pens ...... the world would be a better place in which to live.
 
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Be careful Al---this could get ugly if we start talking about setting up at a show next to a "Planet Leader". They have to be the best Salesman/Saleswomen just look at what they try and sell us everyday on the news.
 
Originally posted by Ozzy
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Originally posted by Jim in Oakville
I worked as a geologist in the 80's in the arctic in isolation on the barrens for 5-6 months a year...I owned a 357 mag and a 12 gauge shot gun for protection (polar bears etc), I went through a great deal to get a fire arms acquisition permit to buy these weapons, and, I hated every second I had to carry one, but would I work with out one in that enviornment, NEVER..
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You would not work in an environment unarmed because of wild animals (I would not either) but you are willing to walk around in a society full of armed criminals that think even less of you and your rights than a wild animal? I don't see the logic.
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Well Ozzy That is my logic[:)]

We both live in different worlds....and I respect the differences. We know from published stats that I am 7 times more likely to be killed by a gun in the US than Canada, but also in the wilds of the far north well above the tree line are so remote that should I need help it would be 3 days before a plane or helicopter could find me and assist. So every story has supporting needs why they are unique such as my norther example.

I am not an anti gun or pro gun person, but I respect our differences and I know the Canadian story vs the US story is not an Apples to Apples example either...I know there are dangerous places in Toronto and other Canadian cities...but I chose to live where this topic is not an issue...[:)]
 
I am not an anti gun or pro gun person, but I respect our differences and I know the Canadian story vs the US story is not an Apples to Apples example either...I know there are dangerous places in Toronto and other Canadian cities...but I chose to live where this topic is not an issue...[:)]
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Careful Jim ..... talk like that will get more and more Americans thinking about moving to Canada. Wish I would have done it in the 60s. [;)]
 
Personally I think "cities" is a big part of the issue. Humans need space and peace to be able to unwind and mellow. When you live in a big city finding that "space" is nearly impossible so you never "unwind" you just keep getting wound tighter and tighter until those with weak springs snap.

I think many of us on this board use our shop and lathe to find our peace and to unwind. I know that in the past few days while working on this big pen order I've found a "inner peace" that has helped me not freak out and get angry every time something goes wrong. I just reset and redo and marvel in the beauty of the final product. Maybe we need to put creative outlet type stuff back into the schools so the kids can find what brings them their inner peace too.

Just a thought.
GK
 
I see lots of statistics about Canada vs US. However I don't think if you outlaw guns in the US we will mimic Canada. There are just too many criminals in the US that are already importing contraband and the amount of guns they smuggle will only increase. I think the difference between US and Canada has more to do with the people than the gun laws. I think the problem is our culture. The music, the video games and the lack of parental control, not to mention what drugs has done to the country. I believe if we knew the amount of crime that was directly related to drugs, it would give most of us a heart attack. I'm like Doc in one respect, I got a whipping at school with an oak paddle and my dad never know about it when he died at 87. If he had, I'd have gotten a second one. However, I am also a gun owner. Currently 13 of them with 2 permits to purchase in my possession right now. However, in over 22 years of my pistol being with me every day, it has never harmed anyone, but it's there if I need it. I just think that as long as guns are manufactured outside of the US, you can't outlaw them with any success. It didn't work with cocaine, it won't work with guns. I hear "if one live is saved, it's worth it". Well did you ever consider if another person will lose their life from an armed criminal who is now more bold or from attacking someone who would have defended themselves but now can't?

I take a different approach on the kid at the mall. For the last 4 years, I have worked for a Mental Health Center. We have been transformed (by the State) from a service provider to a "management entity" and services have been turned over to private providers. Some of the "reform" ideas are to get more people out of institutions and into "community based" programs and give them "choice" in their provider/counselor. This is a total disaster. More people are in the emergency rooms and jails (temporarily) that are being sent home because there isn't any help or the help isn't working because providers are more interested in profits than care. More effort needs to be spent on real help for people with mental problems. Both this kid and the one from Virginia Tech, should have received more help than they did. They fell through the cracks.
 
Originally posted by DocStram
<br />I think the really interesting thing about this thread is that it has not been shut down by the mods.
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Trust me, Doc, it is being watched VERY CAREFULLY by me! At first I was going to remove it since it is a political issue and politics are not tolerated at all on this site. I decided to let it ride for a few hours to see what transpired and what direction it took. I think the politics have stayed out of it for the most part and as long as it stays that way, the thread will continue to stay open.
 
Originally posted by fuzzydog
<br />one fact that I found was that there have been more
people killed with bow and arrow than with guns.
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I recall this article, it was in the Colonial Times 27 Oct 1748.

I had kept the my copy because it had a flier for Buckskins and Racoon hats at the Trading Post[:D][:D]
 
Jim,
I am glad that you took my comment for what it was, just my opinion. You are absolutely right, we do live in two different worlds and, like myself, you realize that different is not wrong; its just different.
 
Originally posted by gerryr
<br />Has anyone stopped to consider why the US has the highest rate of gun crimes like this of any developed nation? People with serious psychological problems like the kid in Omaha and the the Virginia Tech shooter can too easily purchaseguns.
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My only problem with this statement is the guns are not USUALLY purchased. Guns are left accessible by uncaring, unthinking family and or friends.

My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims in their time of sorrow.
 
Originally posted by Ozzy
<br />Jim,
I am glad that you took my comment for what it was, just my opinion. You are absolutely right, we do live in two different worlds and, like myself, you realize that different is not wrong; its just different.
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[:)] Yes, and I do appreciate that you and I can have this discussion and still be very civil and open minded, Thank You...[;)]
 
Originally posted by gketell
<br />....I guarantee that if I had a pistol or a rifle and someone came near me shooting at others, that person and only that person would be short lived.....
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I have read several pages of this thread and this particular post worries me the most mainly because it's by someone who THINKS they are adequately prepared for any situation and prepared to take deadly action to right the wrongs of the world.

Greg, don't get too offended but you and people like you scare the heck out of me and I am a gun owner. using your statement above let's run through a scenario.

You are out Christmas shopping with your wife at the local mall. You just step outside of Sears on the second level and hear gun shots.

You see people running in every direction, ducking for cover all over then notice the shots are coming from the first level.

You peer over the balcony and there he is... a 17 year old punk crouched down beside the escalator shooting at a couple of kids near the entrance to JC Pennys.

Taking matters into your own hands, you decide to do the right thing before this low life can kill anyone else, so you pull out your trusty sidearm which you have been fully trained on and which contains the proper loads for mall shooting, make sure no innocent bystanders are in the line of fire and you shoot the scumbag. Being an expert marksman, you drop the sucker with one well placed shot!

<b>WELL DONE.... YOU HAVE SAVED THE DAY! If there were more people like you around, things like this wouldn't be happening.</b> But wait... those poor young kids near the entrance to JC Pennys that the punk was shooting at have guns! OH my gosh, and they are still shooting all over the place. They finally have enough and decide to kill themselves and do.

But what about the scumbag you killed? Oh yeah, he wasn't really 17, he just looked young. Actually he was an off duty police officer who had seen what was happening and was trying to control the situation... before you came along and botched things up!

Is this an over dramitization? Could it happen? I think it could just as easily happen as not and my point to all this is that regardless of how much you THINK you know about firearms, you are no more prepared than anyone else in the above situation! The only dfference in the above scenario is that instead of 9 people dead, there are now 10... and THAT scares me, my nephew is a young rookie cop!
 
The biggest problem seems to be there is very little parental control over a large portion of this country . The states have taken most of it away...when i was a kid I was taught that if I did wrong there would be a very strong punishment when I got home...not abuse...but a lesson not to do it again nowadays sending your child to bed without dinner is considered neglect or child endangerment and giving yor child a spanking is considered abuse , well then I have been abused and endangered several times but I learned my lesson and to this day I have not killed a mall full of people .
It's time to change the way we do things...teach your children respect and honor and this problem will be alot less of a problem
 
No offense taken.


In any argument about any thing people can always come up with a scenario that is impossible.

Let's take another situation. The shooter is coming at you and your family shooting people as he comes and you are stuck in a corner of the building with no where to go. Should you just stand there saying your final prayers?

No one is ever mentally prepared for situations like those. Not even the trained cops.

It boils down to understanding the situation before acting. As does everything you do in life. If you act before you know, you are a fool and probably worse. Would I do the right thing in the situation you propose? I hope to never find out. Would you do the right thing in the situation I propose? I hope you never have to find out!!

GK
 
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