Which World we are living in ....?

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I need a license to carry just so any wackos who think they have free reign will have another think comin'. Sheeez

GK
 
While the world has defintely changed, I remember 2 events in my life from about 25-26 years ago.... 1. Being in Israel for about a 3 month period I noticed that the Israelis worked very hard to be hospitable, polite and just generally nice. The second was at a major gun show in L.A. County. I had to take my (then) 1 year-old son becuase my wife was working that day. Again, everyone was polite, nice, and made plenty of room for the stroller.

My point... an armed society can definitely be a safe polite society. It might be simplistic, but it works for me.
 
I used to have relatives in Omaha, and had been to that mall a number of times in the past. It's a great town, and considered one of the safest among cities its size. Yet it just goes to show that these loony-toons can pop up anywhere.

My thoughts are with the people there.
 
Originally posted by jcollazo
<br />While the world has defintely changed, I remember 2 events in my life from about 25-26 years ago.... 1. Being in Israel for about a 3 month period I noticed that the Israelis worked very hard to be hospitable, polite and just generally nice. The second was at a major gun show in L.A. County. I had to take my (then) 1 year-old son becuase my wife was working that day. Again, everyone was polite, nice, and made plenty of room for the stroller.

My point... an armed society can definitely be a safe polite society. It might be simplistic, but it works for me.
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So, since the US seems to be getting more unsafe, we should all be better armed?
 
Gerry,you can bet that I am and I mean no harm to anyone,but I have the right to defend myself and will do so if I have to.
 
Has anyone stopped to consider why the US has the highest rate of gun crimes like this of any developed nation? People with serious psychological problems like the kid in Omaha and the the Virginia Tech shooter can too easily purchase guns.
 
That is one veiw, Gerry. Another is because the wackos know that if they go out with their gun there will very likely be no one around with a gun to stop them so why shouldn't they. If 1 in 10 of us all had/carried guns (and yes, rigorous tests before being given the license to carry is a good thing) then I bet this would stop.

"I'm going to go shoot up the town! Oh wait, they can/will shoot back. Maybe not."

What you are seeing is exactly what happens when "only the crooks have guns". And in every country on earth, the crooks have guns.

GK
 
The kid in Omaha apparently stole the gun from his father in law if I have the relation correct.

The real problem is WE are too STUPID to realize that he have to stop teaching our kids that there is no right or wrong. Now in baseball games they do not want to keep score (we cannot have losers) Kids need to be taught that they do loose at times and they DO need to be held for their actions. When we do not make out children right their wrongs, they learn there is no recourse for what they do. Combine that with a huge dose of "conditioning" from violent movies, shooting video games and other improper exposure, are we to be surprised by this??!!
dunno.gif
 
gketell, this was a disturbed, troubled kid that had gone from one foster home to another. he took the gun from where he was staying. He wasn't a criminal before.
He left a suicide note behind, so was intent on ending up dead. I don't think he worrying about who was going to kill him.
By having more people with guns, more guns get into the wrong hands, more bullets get into the wrong people. Do the math.

Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people.
 
"People with guns kill people"....okay, but "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". On exactly WHAT level of insanity does denying people the right to self-defense make ANY kind of sense???
 
Originally posted by gketell
<br />What you are seeing is exactly what happens when "only the crooks have guns". And in every country on earth, the crooks have guns.

GK
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I'm with Gerry on this one. "What you are seeing" is exactly what happens when guns are too easily accessible and readily available. Cliches like "Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people" are just that ... simplistic, trite expressions that are overused.
 
Handguns are not legal in Canada and they don't have nearly the gun violence that the US has. Why does anyone outside of law enforcement need a 9mm Glock or a Bushmaster? The problem is that there are just way too many people who think they're John Wayne. Suppose some number of people at the mall in Omaha had been armed and decided they would take care of the shooter. How many more people would have died because of indiscriminate shooting at someone they "thought" was the shooter? Talk to law enforcement officers and they will tell you that it's far too easy to buy or steal guns.
 
I see nothing wrong with gun ownership, I don't currently own one, have had my FAC and been an instructor. What is needed is gun laws.... let me rephase that, sensible gun laws.

Being locked up, away from ammo, reasonable waiting times for purchase.

The NRA are a huge lobby and fight any attempt at enacting laws that will provide a level of safety.
Illegal purchase of guns happen all the time as does the fact that many legal guns fall into the wrong hands, be it children or through theft.

Some places have more requirements for riding a bike than for carrying a lethal weapon.
That's insane.

I believe people should be able to protect themselves, but without some measure of gun control people are at risk, they are not safer.
 
gerryr,
Hand guns are not illegal in Canada, they are controlled weapons.
An FAC (Firearms Acquisition Certificate) is required for anyone to own or use a firearm, a special licence is required for purchasing a controlled firearm.

None of this should be a big deal for lawful hunters or target shooters.

That said, our government created a monster with the gun registry.
We're talking idiots that shouldn't be allowed to own guns themselves or any kind of decision making.
 
Earlier this year a young man with a history of mental problems attacked a passerby near my brother's place in Seattle. The young man beat the passerby to the ground. On his back, the passerby pulled his registered handgun and shot (killed) his assailant. On one hand I applaud the victim for taking care of the problem right there and then. But, I'm also sincerely sorry for the assailant. Here was a man (early twenties) with these problems and family and authorities, who knew about these problems, could not help him.

I would rather see money spent on people with real mental health issues (like Omaha and VA Tech) then on run of the mill druggies who create their own problem and don't use the 1,001 susbstance abuse programs available.[:(!]

I'm just venting. The world has gotten stranger and there are no easy answers.
 
Perhaps the media is part of the problem. You see the kids suicide note..now I'm gonna be famous. And he's right, we gave him what he wanted even though he took from us what wasn't his to take.

There's a million ways to argue the situation of the shooting story, why it happens, how it could have been stopped. Only thing that's ever going to stop it is if the entire planet of people are all individually locked into a cell by themselves. There is no guaranteed way to identify someone that is going to go off the deep end. Take away guns, they'll use knives, make bombs or whatever else. Blame society, Blame the parents...we don't know all his situation or what his parents were like. We only know the parts the media wants to feed us.
 
I never leave the house without a gun. I have worked myself to death getting this old and I ain't going to have some 19 year old putting a end to my life----I still have plenty of wood that needs to be worked.
Plus if you folks keep giving up your rights what will you have left??
And if we are ever attacked but any outside power---head for my house we will make a stand here.
"I could do this all day long"--Larry The Cable Guy
 
Originally posted by Gary Max
<br />I never leave the house without a gun. I have worked myself to death getting this old and I ain't going to have some 19 year old putting a end to my life----I still have plenty of wood that needs to be worked.
Plus if you folks keep giving up your rights what will you have left??
And if we are ever attacked but any outside power---head for my house we will make a stand here.
"I could do this all day long"--Larry The Cable Guy
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..... and I ALWAYS leave my house WITHOUT a gun. It's guys with guns that worry me ... even the ones who misinterpret "militia" for "individual".
 
What about ----The right to Bare Arms.
Folks need to be careful about giving up our rights----Heck I saw a parking lot last week that had No Smoking signs---how stupid is that-----and No I don't smoke but the sign --still makes me mad----This is a free Country.
I can do this all day long "Larry The Cable Guy"
 
OK, Gary ... time to lighten this up with a little humor! Even though the gun issue is something we don't agree upon, at least we share a passion for penturning! Right? [:D]

2007127144349_Arm%20Bears.jpg
 
Originally posted by gerryr
<br />Handguns are not legal in Canada and they don't have nearly the gun violence that the US has.
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True to some extent. Unfortunately there is a great traffic of incoming handguns being smuggled in from the USA. Sad to say, that we are mimicking our US neighbour with the escalating gun violence.

Personally I'd prefer if someone smuggled in a nice pen kit instead of a Glock.[:D] May peace and common sense prevail.

-Peter-[:)]
 
I have long resisted any type of gun registration etc. I remember doing a debate in
high school over this issue and one fact that I found was that there have been more
people killed with bow and arrow than with guns. I can't quote the source so please
don't ask. But the Nazi party managed to get mandatory gun registration in place before they took over, it made it easy to go from door to door to collect weapons of
resistance members.
I think that alot of the problem is with todays tv and video games, we have steralized the gore of death to the point that it has no concequence to our young people. I have heard players make comments like "look at this cool blood spray". I could not help but think that kid should have been in Vietnam, he'd have a different attitude.
Gun registration is not the solution, responsibility for ones action is. or at least it's a good first step.
 
Doc, I know that is in jest but you get me wrong. I don't believe there is any reason for a lay person to own either of those weapons or any "fully automatic" weapon. But a rifle and a pistol for personal protection, everyone should have one AND BE TRAINED in their proper use.

I guarantee that if I had a pistol or a rifle and someone came near me shooting at others, that person and only that person would be short lived. I have been raised with weapons my entire life and trained since I was 9 to always know what is down range of the target before shooting and to only shoot when I know I can hit the target. When I was 15 I put 5 rounds into a space less than an inch long by 1/4 inch high at 50 yards with my Sears and Robuck, open-site .22 rifle. in the military I did equally as well with M16s and pistols.

And, if you are carrying for personal protection, you choose your ammo to match. You don't want high power, deep penetrating rounds. You want something that will travel to your target and stop there. One of the best is something called Glazer Safety Slugs which are bullets that are plastic encased bird shot. Flies like a bullet, hits like a shot gun blast. And if you miss, it will not penetrate two layers of drywall nor will it ricochet so your chances of hitting someone else by mistake are nearly nil. But it WILL stop the assailant even when it isn't a lethal shot. It puts the body into shock. There have been cases where a "love handle" hit stopped the bad guy.

If the mall guards had been properly trained and tested (psychological as well skill) and were armed appropriately that shooting would not have gone on as long as it did.

GK
(who, btw, owns no guns at this time and is not a member of NRA because I think they are "over the top" on many issues)
 
Originally posted by wood-of-1kind
<br />
Originally posted by Gary Max
<br />Hey what about that cash crop of drugs that comes in from Canada every year?????
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I didn't know that ripe, delicious Mcintosh apples were lethal[:eek:)][;)]

-Peter-[:)]
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Peter,
Didn't you know that apple seeds contain a cyanide compound?[:eek:)] Fortunately, the hard shell of the seed prevents it from being released unless you crush or chew them. Even then, you would have to chew the seeds from a large number of apples at one time before they would do any harm. Seems the human body can detoxify small quantities of the cyanide compound so that there is no cumulative effect.[:D]

BTW, there are other fruits and vegetables that contain poisons.
EDIT: http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/apples.asp

Paul in AR
 
last time I was really fired up and did the research the FBI had a great crime statistics database online. I just checked the most recent crime stats and what a change. Used to be the you were more likely to be beaten to death with a 2x4 but the percentages have sure changed.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/index.html
 
I think there is no single or simple solution. I have listened to many points of view on Guns, Gun Control. Etc.

What I know is that guns don't care who pulls the trigger and guns do not have the ability to think or reason. The One with that control is the one holding it, but given that I don't trust any one with a gun unless they are in law.

There are many thoughts and misconceptions about gun control in Canada, yes we have a National murder rate of about 1.7 per 100,000 on average (Toronto a city slightly larer than Chicago has a 1.7per 100,000, Montreal is 1.6 per 100,000) but look at Indianapolis in 2006, it was 13.5 per 100,000...so yes there are problems, but if we can't trust human beings with guns then we need to control humans until they get it right, but will humans ever get it right?!?![:)] of course not.

I worked as a geologist in the 80's in the arctic in isolation on the barrens for 5-6 months a year...I owned a 357 mag and a 12 gauge shot gun for protection (polar bears etc), I went through a great deal to get a fire arms acquisition permit to buy these weapons, and, I hated every second I had to carry one, but would I work with out one in that enviornment, NEVER..

Common sense is not equally common to all, to me common sense says that gun laws that were written in 1700's need to be revisited and made real for real times, and not be hidden behind some belief that they are cast in stone for all eternity...so as long as Canada stays relatively Gun less compared to the US then I am glad to remain a Canadian and live in this enviornment
 
Originally posted by Glass Scratcher
<br />last time I was really fired up and did the research the FBI had a great crime statistics database online. I just checked the most recent crime stats and what a change. Used to be the you were more likely to be beaten to death with a 2x4 but the percentages have sure changed.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/index.html
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Speaking about being beaten with a 2x4 ..... did I ever tell you about the time (way back in the 60s) my 10th grade wood shop teacher paddled me with a 2x4? He used to wear one of those old long shop coats. If I remember correctly, he was teaching us how to build birdhouses. While he was demonstrating the correct way of holding a hammer ..... I carefully lifted up the end of his shop coat and nailed it to the workbench. As he tried to walk away .... well, you get the picture. He then slid off the shop coat and told me to bend over. He had a 2x4 in his hand. I was about 5 feet away from a bandsaw. I remember him saying .... "You're going to need a bigger landing space. Move away from the bandsaw." And then he let it rip.
I took my medicine like a man and learned a lesson about respect. [:0]

Incidentally, my mom and dad never heard this story. If my dad had ever found out what I had done ... I would have eaten a 2x4. [:p]
 
As an assistant instructor at a technical school, I don’t think corporal punishment should ever have been halted in schools, especially junior high school and high school, if a few more of these whacked out crack heads had had their rear ends lit up, perhaps we could have a kinder more polite society, rather than add new laws regarding gun control, lets just enforce the existing ones VIGORUSLY.
If we are going to control any thing, lets try and control politicians; they’re far more dangerous than guns
 
Ken that has to be the best post I have read in this tread yet. I tried selling "Education Boards" at a show once. You would not believe the negative responce that brought.
 
In britain handgun ownership was banned after the Dunblane Massacre, where a legally held firearm was used to kill many young children, rifle and shotgun owners have to go through STRINGENT checks to obtain a licence to own a firearm and ANY type of court conviction could cost the firearm owner that licence. The licence has to be renewed every 3 years and the licence is issued by the police.

However if someone has an identifiable requirement and has passed all the checks then that licence will most probably be granted.

Most people REQUIRING firearms/shotguns have them.

Yes we do have gun crime in this country but this is mostly carried out using illegal firearms and commited by young men who have been raised in a gang culture of rap music where gun crime and killing is cool ( and where did this originate from, Thanks you America).

To those who state that their gun will only be removed from their Cold dead hands.It probably wil be, unless some form of gun control is brought in.

Just an outsiders point of view after 24 years of picking up the pieces of violent incidents in every shape and form
 
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Originally posted by Jim in Oakville
I worked as a geologist in the 80's in the arctic in isolation on the barrens for 5-6 months a year...I owned a 357 mag and a 12 gauge shot gun for protection (polar bears etc), I went through a great deal to get a fire arms acquisition permit to buy these weapons, and, I hated every second I had to carry one, but would I work with out one in that enviornment, NEVER..
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You would not work in an environment unarmed because of wild animals (I would not either) but you are willing to walk around in a society full of armed criminals that think even less of you and your rights than a wild animal? I don't see the logic.

I live twelve miles from the Lubby's(it's not Lubby's anymore)in Killeen, Tx, that was shot up by a jerk. It was bad enough to see it on the news but I know people that were there. The main thing that sticks out in my mind is that one of the women owned a pistol but followed the law and left it in her truck. Because she obeyed the law, she got to watch this loser kill her parents.

I was not going to comment on this topic because its a no win situation. All of the anti-gun people think they are right and all of the pro-gun think that they are right and neither will ever change the others minds. Education is the key to everything, I was raised understanding the rules of gun safety and I am doing the same with my kids. I use my gun to hunt for food, I do not hunt for sport, but I can promise you that if someone was to break into my house and I had to defend my wife and kids, the intuder's life of crime would come to a screeching halt.
 
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