When did Chrome plating become high end???

[alphageek]

Wow I use an example and you post this, have you read any of my posts in this thread? I have never said chrome is bad. I have not said rhodium is better but there is a difference , a Ford Fusion for most of us is a better choice financially than a Maserati,Bently,Lamborghini but if only:bananen_smilies068::bananen_smilies051:
Chrome has it's place and Rhodium also has its place

Once again where did I say one plating was a better plating. Different yes, have different uses yes, on a pen there is no difference in plating only in perceived value. I would guess if I told you a chrome plated Emperor was rhodium most would not know the difference , they both would last,stay bright and give good service, the only difference is once again perceived value.

Oh, I've read ALL your posts... And I never said anything about better plating, nor did I say you did.

I just pointed out an alternative viewpoint to your side that "chrome has its place" and "perceived value". You seem stuck on that view and refuse to see that chrome can be high end. So it goes back to if you are so convinced that chrome is the low end and that it has less perceived value, why did you bother to ask? You appear to have your bias firmly in place. That would make your posting of this thread more about bashing chrome than understanding it.

As for your example of an Emperor... If most wouldn't know the difference (your words), are you TRULY convinced that chrome would reduce the perceived value? Maybe for you it would... I can guarantee you that for some it wouldn't matter. Put a chrome Emperor out with the right material on the body and the words chrome OR rhodium may never have to be said - focus on the details, the beauty and the craftsmanship and the BODY of the pen and the pen still sells- because its an Emperor with a great body, not because it was or was not chrome.

Now, I have a feeling that you snorted,laughed, or something similar during your reading of the last paragraph Roy...And if so - no skin of my back. Unlike Street, I don't feel I have to be right. You may be right... Maybe it matters... But either way its better to LISTEN when you ask questions than hammer your opinion at those you ask questions of!

 

[alphageek]

when I make a high end on, I prefer rhodium over chrome. This is my opinion. I prefer not to do any chrome unless it is a Sierra or something. I notice a difference. I believe, that rhodium does not scratch either. This is another plus for me. I hope I answered the question Roy, I wouldn't spend over $10 on anything chrome if I didn't have to and I would spend an extra couple of dollars to get rhodium. I understand people don't have the same opinions as me.

Jon... (the bolding above is mine)... You sell a pen at almost 3x the above... and from your website: "Manufactured in Taiwan, and made exclusively, for Signature Pen Supply, the Jr. George II is made with the highest quality materials. The Antique Silver plating is unpolished Thick Chrome. "

I'm confused by this.. if chrome is so bad and only good for < $10 or Sierra styled pens... Why then do you market a more expensive pen made from chrome? And why bash chrome here if you claim "the highest quality materials?"

I'm not trying to bash you as a vendor here.. Remember I'm on the side that chrome has its share of premium places (motorcycles, etc).. but trying to understand why some vendors want to bash chrome. I understand Roys view on chrome as he is marketing Rhodium... But I don't understand yours?

 

[SteveJ]

Roy

I didn't check any of the choices in the poll since checking was to agree.

I would answer no to each of the statements.
I do not consider chrome to be top of the line
I would not buy a component set such as the Emperor in Chrome and call it top of the line.
I would not pay over $35 for a chrome component set (Kit) - but then I've never paid over $35 for ANY component set.

But I do like the durability of chrome!

 

[edstreet]

Jon... (the bolding above is mine)... You sell a pen at almost 3x the above... and from your website: "Manufactured in Taiwan, and made exclusively, for Signature Pen Supply, the Jr. George II is made with the highest quality materials. The Antique Silver plating is unpolished Thick Chrome. " I'm confused by this.. if chrome is so bad and only good for < $10 or Sierra styled pens... Why then do you market a more expensive pen made from chrome? And why bash chrome here if you claim "the highest quality materials?" I'm not trying to bash you as a vendor here.. Remember I'm on the side that chrome has its share of premium places (motorcycles, etc).. but trying to understand why some vendors want to bash chrome. I understand Roys view on chrome as he is marketing Rhodium... But I don't understand yours?

Fail.


Said pen is not chrome plated. It's In a new class by itself. Properties is much higher than your standard chrome plate job and then additional work is applied, I.e. Tooling work and chemical work.

 

[alphageek]

Fail.

Said pen is not chrome plated. It's In a new class by itself. Properties is much higher than your standard chrome plate job and then additional work is applied, I.e. Tooling work and chemical work.

Fail yourself - that question was not to YOU or ANYONE other than Jon... it was specifically to Jon as it was his comments. Neither his post NOR his website have the word plated on it. The question was about "chrome". Unless you are Jons laywer, marketing director or mother - there is no reason for you to reply for him on this.

 

[edstreet]

Fail yourself - that question was not to YOU or ANYONE other than Jon... it was specifically to Jon as it was his comments. Neither his post NOR his website have the word plated on it. The question was about "chrome". Unless you are Jons laywer, marketing director or mother - there is no reason for you to reply for him on this.

And who appointed you topic police? It is a public area on the forum therefor everyone is free to reply no? No need to be so defensive for me pointing out your simple logic failure. After all you freely do these same things yourself. You are after all just a casual user just like everyone else.

 

[alphageek]

Roy. I guess the technical answer is when a salesperson is selling snake oil the low quality ingredients is "high quality". In the grand scheme it may not technically be "high grade" but in the lower limited arena of market starvation and gluttony it suddenly becomes "high grade". Marketing ploys and sales tactics makes all the difference in the world in that realm. If said merchant is only peddling chrome then that will be "high grade". As with physics and math we learn limits, min max on the scope of relevance for the equation given.

Said pen is not chrome plated. It's In a new class by itself. Properties is much higher than your standard chrome plate job and then additional work is applied, I.e. Tooling work and chemical work.

And who appointed you topic police? It is a public area on the forum therefor everyone is free to reply no? No need to be so defensive for me pointing out your simple logic failure. After all you freely do these same things yourself. You are after all just a casual user just like everyone else.

You want to talk logic fail... You call chrome and their sellers "snake Oil" and then later chrome is a new class by itself.

I think you're the snake oil here. As for topic police, your right that anyone can respond to anything.. But my question was to Jon about his comments.. Feel free to reply with anything you wish, but it has zero relevance to my question to him since you're not him.

 

[liljohn1368]

MAN!!!

 

[alphageek]

MAN!!!

 

[edstreet]

You want to talk logic fail... You call chrome and their sellers "snake Oil" and then later chrome is a new class by itself. I think you're the snake oil here. As for topic police, your right that anyone can respond to anything.. But my question was to Jon about his comments.. Feel free to reply with anything you wish, but it has zero relevance to my question to him since you're not him.

Sorry fail logic again. I never said chrome was snake oil nor did I call anyone a pizza. I did however compare the ingedients in snake oil to be falsely represented as higher value. As for antique silver yes it is chromium applied stupidly thick then Milled down and acid etched. Not quite your standard thin chrome plate polished job. Also worth note is the antique job is unpolished.

Chrome is a durable option and lower cost than rhodium. Some may see the difference but 25% + of the male population may not see it due to visual genetic disorders. I,e. Color blind.

I would like to urge you to stop being argumentative and please provide useful info to the topic at hand and help the community as a whole. There are a ton of misinformation out there about these two ingredients and we need all he good players on board with this. Please.

 

[alphageek]

I would like to urge you to stop being argumentative and please provide useful info to the topic at hand and help the community as a whole. There are a ton of misinformation out there about these two ingredients and we need all he good players on board with this. Please.

ROFL!!!! Oh my GOD!!! I just about peed myself. That coming from YOU has to be the funniest post on IAP in years!!! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Now on that high ... I think I'll go back to ignoring you for a while... Its better for my health!

 

[TurtleTom]

I love chrome, real chrome. It's extremely hard and durable. But now I'm leery of chrome since they invented that high-end plastic that is indistinguishable from chrome.

 

[mark james]

You want to talk logic fail... You call chrome and their sellers "snake Oil" and then later chrome is a new class by itself. I think you're the snake oil here. As for topic police, your right that anyone can respond to anything.. But my question was to Jon about his comments.. Feel free to reply with anything you wish, but it has zero relevance to my question to him since you're not him.

Sorry fail logic again. I never said chrome was snake oil nor did I call anyone a pizza. I did however compare the ingedients in snake oil to be falsely represented as higher value. As for antique silver yes it is chromium applied stupidly thick then Milled down and acid etched. Not quite your standard thin chrome plate polished job. Also worth note is the antique job is unpolished.

Chrome is a durable option and lower cost than rhodium. Some may see the difference but 25% + of the male population may not see it due to visual genetic disorders. I,e. Color blind.

I would like to urge you to stop being argumentative and please provide useful info to the topic at hand and help the community as a whole. There are a ton of misinformation out there about these two ingredients and we need all he good players on board with this. Please.

Your data is a bit off, National Institutes of Health indicates closer to 8%(I'm only commenting to color blindness... I have no opinion on other matters; but I like chrome perfectly fine ).

https://nei.nih.gov/health/color_blindness/facts_about

 

[edstreet]

The % does vary and I'm not sure which one is correct. Have heard 3, 8 and 25. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[skiprat]

I have several numbers of platters I will be calling this upcoming week and posting results here. A la Sterling silver thread.

If I remember correctly, your Google nonsense thread on Sterling went **** up and probably even proved you wrong ...... again...:wink: I didn't bother reading till the end.

Are The Platters still going???

 

[skiprat]

Roy, for me, a plating that is more durable than the next is high end.
So if Chrome last longer than Gold or Silver plate then it wins.

Every chromed kit I have made is still going strong ( that I know of ) but i have several other plated kits that are really showing their age.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Folks, this will be the last post on this thread by me, the folks that want to argue keep posting , I've needed a good laugh lately and this has provided me with it.
We have had over 50 post on this tread and only 5 pertained to the question asked, the others all were about Chrome vs Rhodium and even me being biased toward rhodium and the poll was biased.
As I have said many, many times chrome is a GOOD plating, I only asked if you thought it was a high end plating and in my original post I was not comparing Chrome t any other plating,that was done by another vendor and two others, NOT ME.
As was pointed out Harley has lots of chrome and Harley is thought of as high end. So I will bow down to you and agree on a Harley chrome is high end and high priced, wonder what the price of a Big Boy would cost if it was plated in a Jewelry grade plating:wink:
Fords high end car would be completely different than Maserati's high end so I can see where some would have chrome pens in their high end category and from all the large quantity of votes the poll had (all 6 of them)nothing was accomplished, so a big thanks the the good folks that have taken this completely off track for their own agenda.

 

[JimB]

Roy - the low voting in the poll could be due to the wording. For example, I don't agree with any of the statements in the poll so there is no way for me to vote. Perhaps I have misunderstood the poll.

For me, I don't market any plating as high end or low end or anything else. I sell the entire pen and answer questions about the materials and the plating and allow the customer to determine if it is what they want. They can decide for themselves if it is high end or not. I should point out that although I do pens in most platings I don't sell what many people on here consider high end. I only do ball points, no FP, no RB's.

I hope I have answered your questions even if I didn't vote in the poll.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Roy, I urge you to repost this poll in a new thread, so we can let this one die...

It's as you say - nothing much of value in these six pages...but it certainly is a good topic to discuss!

 

[alphageek]

Folks, this will be the last post on this thread by me, the folks that want to argue keep posting , I've needed a good laugh lately and this has provided me with it.
We have had over 50 post on this tread and only 5 pertained to the question asked, the others all were about Chrome vs Rhodium and even me being biased toward rhodium and the poll was biased.
As I have said many, many times chrome is a GOOD plating, I only asked if you thought it was a high end plating and in my original post I was not comparing Chrome t any other plating,that was done by another vendor and two others, NOT ME.
As was pointed out Harley has lots of chrome and Harley is thought of as high end. So I will bow down to you and agree on a Harley chrome is high end and high priced, wonder what the price of a Big Boy would cost if it was plated in a Jewelry grade plating:wink:
Fords high end car would be completely different than Maserati's high end so I can see where some would have chrome pens in their high end category and from all the large quantity of votes the poll had (all 6 of them)nothing was accomplished, so a big thanks the the good folks that have taken this completely off track for their own agenda.

Well.. I have to say Roy that you have your blinders on here still.. You said you weren't going to post, but I'm going to reply to a few of your comments anyway (since not posting doesn't mean you won't be reading.)

1) You said 5 posts.. I count more than double that.. I count 9 distinct people who told you about chrome not counting any that you mention.
2) You claim you weren't comparing chrome to other platings, but your initial post DOES talk about rhodium and black ti. And you have a known track record for comparing rhodium to chrome (given that nearly every rhodium pen on your site says in RED "not chrome")
3) Of course you feel that nothing was accomplished when you put this as research, but your final statement in your first post was "Don't get me wrong, I see nothing wrong with chrome plating on lower end components but not on what is considered top of the line."

As for folks taking it off for their own agenda, we're all sorry about that and will let this go back to YOUR agenda now (which the best I can tell is to bash chrome). I also find it very interesting that you posted this thread the same day that one of your competitors announced a new high end pen in their line up that happens to be in chrome and gold.

 

[jttheclockman]

Wow some things never change!!!! I guess they never will!!!


Roy, I know you asked a question via a poll but I thought i would answer somewhat in this manner. I am one of those people that can see the difference of rhodium and chrome when side by side in my hand. I do not know the process that goes into any plating that goes on a kit and nor do I care. That info does absolutely nothing for me and is trivial in my selling of pens. I do hope that manufacturers of kits sell their kits according to the cost of platings and the process that it takes to apply. In other words a chrome kit should be cheaper if the plating requires less material or less steps to apply. But we are at their mercy when it comes to this. We as layman do not know that side of kit making.

So to me a highend kit has to have the style and look that shouts HIGHEND and you automatically associate a good plating no matter what it is. Plating is a small part in my eyes to what is highend. I think adding that special blank makes the entire pen even more highend. Are kits overpriced and are we being gouged??? Absolutely and that is indisputable But those vendors are just like everyone else and exploit the market and charge what it can bear. We as consumers make the final choices. But as pen makers we are guilty as well in the whole scheme of selling We pass on these costs in the the final product plus add what we think is a fair price and sometimes a whole unfair pricing system but that is for another thread.

So in a round about answer to your question is chrome a highend plating, my answer is it could be but does not have to be. I think one factor that plays against chrome is its wide use as opposed to say Rhodium. It has to be cheaper to produce and use for it is used so widely. It has been proven to be a very durable finish. But as with all finishes the behind the scenes things such as how it is applied, thickness and other ingredients added are factors. Are all chromes the same and i am sure that answer is no.


Just to throw it out there where does stainless steel rank in this discussion???

 

[Smitty37]

Wow some things never change!!!! I guess they never will!!!


Roy, I know you asked a question via a poll but I thought i would answer somewhat in this manner. I am one of those people that can see the difference of rhodium and chrome when side by side in my hand. I do not know the process that goes into any plating that goes on a kit and nor do I care. That info does absolutely nothing for me and is trivial in my selling of pens. I do hope that manufacturers of kits sell their kits according to the cost of platings and the process that it takes to apply. In other words a chrome kit should be cheaper if the plating requires less material or less steps to apply. But we are at their mercy when it comes to this. We as layman do not know that side of kit making.

So to me a highend kit has to have the style and look that shouts HIGHEND and you automatically associate a good plating no matter what it is. Plating is a small part in my eyes to what is highend. I think adding that special blank makes the entire pen even more highend. Are kits overpriced and are we being gouged??? Absolutely and that is indisputable But those vendors are just like everyone else and exploit the market and charge what it can bear. We as consumers make the final choices. But as pen makers we are guilty as well in the whole scheme of selling We pass on these costs in the the final product plus add what we think is a fair price and sometimes a whole unfair pricing system but that is for another thread.

So in a round about answer to your question is chrome a highend plating, my answer is it could be but does not have to be. I think one factor that plays against chrome is its wide use as opposed to say Rhodium. It has to be cheaper to produce and use for it is used so widely. It has been proven to be a very durable finish. But as with all finishes the behind the scenes things such as how it is applied, thickness and other ingredients added are factors. Are all chromes the same and i am sure that answer is no.


Just to throw it out there where does stainless steel rank in this discussion???

I can see the difference side by side in my hand too, but not when either is alone without the other to compare to.

Rhodium (and hence Rhodium plating solutions) are far more expensive than chrome. From what I've read it seems to me that as well as being much costlier Rhodium is more difficult and much less forgiving than chrome when plating other than the "flash plating" done by jewelers.

I don't associate stainless steel with high end myself but I suppose it could be if done right.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Is this poll a Yes or No? If I check a block am I saying yes? If so how do I say no? I understand what you are trying to learn Roy but I don't think you worded the poll right to get the answer. While I might want to say I think Chrome can be high end - I might not be willing to pay over $35 for one but I can't do both.

Sure you can, this is multiple choice, it just will show you think it's high end but you would not be willing to pay for it:biggrin:

 

[Smitty37]

Is this poll a Yes or No? If I check a block am I saying yes? If so how do I say no? I understand what you are trying to learn Roy but I don't think you worded the poll right to get the answer. While I might want to say I think Chrome can be high end - I might not be willing to pay over $35 for one but I can't do both.

Sure you can, this is multiple choice, it just will show you think it's high end but you would not be willing to pay for it:biggrin:

Actually Roy, if I check that I think it is high end I can't check that I won't pay $35.00 for it. I can only select that I would. Additionally unless I agree with at least one of the statements I can't vote at all.

Assume that I do not think Chrome is high end (no check on #1) That I would not call an Emperor in Chrome high end (no check #2)
That I make pens costing more than $50.00 (no Check #3) That I would not Pay more than $35 for a Chrome Pen Kit (no Check #4) and hence since my vote will not be accepted unless I check at least one - I can't vote. So you can only get votes from people who agree with at least one of the statements.

So you will get a skewed vote.

 

[Skie_M]

Wow .... Ok, I think we need to get the girls in here with their micrometers and you guys can drop your pants and finally get this over with ....


Or ... we can talk about chrome and metal plating in general! (I prefer the latter...)


I always tell my customers that the plating on the pen is less than 5%. I really don't care if it's 1% or half a percent, it's still less than 5% either way.

The only things the plating does for me is to change the appearance of the pen kit. Does one look more luxurious than another? sure ....

Are some plated finishes more durable than others? sure ....

Am I going to charge a premium price for one finish over another? Only if I have to pay more for it ....

Do I believe that chrome is a high-end finish? It's shiny, like polished silver, is very scratch resistant, and non-tarnishing .... yup, that'll do.

Do I believe that 18kt rose gold is a high-end finish? It's shiny, cuz it's gold, is not very scratch resistant because it's a soft metal, but it is non-tarnishing ... nope, it's got to last.

So .... platinum, rhodium, chrome, white gold (platinum based), Ti/N gold ... all qualify as high end for me, though I'm not 100% sure on Ti/N gold being non-tarnishing.

The rest are too soft to hold up to punishment or can tarnish over time ... or are just far too common a material (base metals such as steel, aluminum, brass, bronze, copper).


Also ... I only recently started out turning pens this year, so selling a pen over the 50 dollar mark is a huge thing for me. The pens that I have sold are almost all Antique Brass with Rose Gold accents or 24kt gold plated. I have sold only ONE chrome plated pen.

Would I pay a premium price for chrome, though? No. I'ld pay a premium for jewelry-grade metal plating because I know the metal is just more costly, but I don't think Rhodium really should fit that category. It's just as hard or harder than chrome, just and bright and shiny, and just as corrosion resistant, but it's just a replacement for silver because silver will tarnish MUCH too fast and won't take the punishment of everyday use.


That having been said, I still got a Rhodium plated Jr Gent FP kit to put my Abalone blanks on. It'll be my first pen that could sell for over 100 dollars. I'm not sure I could sell it for as much as I'm planning to if it were chrome .... its a little too common for that.

 

[Smitty37]

Wow .... Ok, I think we need to get the girls in here with their micrometers and you guys can drop your pants and finally get this over with ....The discussion is mainly regarding the tendency of high end kit makers who formerly did not consider chrome to be a high end finish and did not offer it on their high end kits who now do so.


Or ... we can talk about chrome and metal plating in general! (I prefer the latter...)The OP did not ask about metal plating in general'


I always tell my customers that the plating on the pen is less than 5%. I really don't care if it's 1% or half a percent, it's still less than 5% either way. What you tell your customers is your concern

The only things the plating does for me is to change the appearance of the pen kit. Does one look more luxurious than another? sure .... I would think it would also change the look of the pen but that being said one may well look more luxurious than another but you could get an endless debate as to which.

Are some plated finishes more durable than others? sure .... A completely accurate statement.

Am I going to charge a premium price for one finish over another? Only if I have to pay more for it ....You will pay different prices for different finishes

Do I believe that chrome is a high-end finish? It's shiny, like polished silver, is very scratch resistant, and non-tarnishing .... yup, that'll do. That answers one of the OP"s questions.

Do I believe that 18kt rose gold is a high-end finish? It's shiny, cuz it's gold, is not very scratch resistant because it's a soft metal, but it is non-tarnishing ... nope, it's got to last. Nobody cares what you think of Rose gold. It has the same wear characteristics as as most other 14K gold.

So .... platinum, rhodium, chrome, white gold (platinum based), Ti/N gold ... all qualify as high end for me, though I'm not 100% sure on Ti/N gold being non-tarnishing. I have never heard of platinum based white gold. White gold originally was a gold/nickel alloy but now nickel has often been replaced due to allergic reactions to it. Palladium is often used but the wear characteristics of white gold are similar to any other 14K (white gold is often a little over 14K) gold. Gold Tn is a ceramic and will not tarnish and generally will not corrode at typical temperatures.

The rest are too soft to hold up to punishment or can tarnish over time ... or are just far too common a material (base metals such as steel, aluminum, brass, bronze, copper).


Also ... I only recently started out turning pens this year, so selling a pen over the 50 dollar mark is a huge thing for me. The pens that I have sold are almost all Antique Brass with Rose Gold accents or 24kt gold plated. I have sold only ONE chrome plated pen. I wish you every success in selling your kits regardless of what they are and welcome you to the world of pen turners.

Would I pay a premium price for chrome, though? No. I'ld pay a premium for jewelry-grade metal plating because I know the metal is just more costly, but I don't think Rhodium really should fit that category. It's just as hard or harder than chrome, just and bright and shiny, and just as corrosion resistant, but it's just a replacement for silver because silver will tarnish MUCH too fast and won't take the punishment of everyday use. Rhodium in jewelry is used more often as a replacement for platinum than silver. It is brighter than platinum and is often used as a flash plate to make platinum (which has a slight grayish tint) rings and ear rings look brighter in the store. This flash coating wears off very quickly.

That having been said, I still got a Rhodium plated Jr Gent FP kit to put my Abalone blanks on. It'll be my first pen that could sell for over 100 dollars. I'm not sure I could sell it for as much as I'm planning to if it were chrome .... its a little too common for that.

Whether you will get more for the Rhodium depends on the venue in which you are selling. To most consumers a $50 pen is expensive regardless of what it is made of and a $100 pen is unheard of. Most people buy pens at WalMart Staples or Office Max not at their local jewelry shop.

 

[edstreet]

blah blah blah blah blah

Smitty, this is for you.

 

[Smitty37]

blah blah blah blah blah

Smitty, this is for you.

Why thank you ED it is really so nice of you to think of me. However I was not aware that you were speaking for the IAP community and you will need to show me some proof that you do. Are you a monitor? No I don't believe you are. Are you otherwise connected with IAP management? No I don't believe you are. If you are one of those things, kindly tell us exactly what your job title is, that you feel you can claim to speak for the IAP community. I believe that as usual you are just talking. BTW you misspelled Smitty37 it is one word not two.And if you are going to claim a quote as being mine do not put your words in it.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Ok, I'm now completely certain that the back-and-forth that's occurring in this thread has no chance of stopping. I'm going to close this thread, and ask Roy to repost if he so desires.

Hopefully we can act like adults if and when he does??

Andrew
assistant moderator