What do you pay yourself an hour?

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Hippie3180

Hippie3180

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So, I'm taking a good look at my pricing, my cog, my consumables, my labor for making blanks as well as for making pens etc. I'm wondering what is the average for what you pay yourself per hour of labor? I'm keeping in mind that I've only been making fountains for a year in August, so not the skill level of a more experienced maker, but I'm wondering what most of you are paying yourselves in terms of an hourly wage?

Also, do you charge s&h or only charge the shipping rate that just went up in terms of USPS? We ship small USPS flat rate within the US, and charge $10. Shipping has gone from $8.41 to $8.71 so this leaves $1.29 for ink, paper, tape, tissue etc.
 
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I'm a bit anxious to see the replies to this one. I've been making pens, etc for a while now. I believe I'm a pretty good maker. And although I haven't done an analysis recently, when I did I figured minimum wage was a good place to start. and, yes, I know I'll get a bit of flack for that one. In Michigan (I'm in central lower Michigan) the minimum wage is $10.33/hr. And when I'm pricing pens, that is all the market will bear, which is the ultimate deciding factor. Some markets may support a higher rate, but I haven't experienced it here.
Gotta go now. My grandson came in and we need to play.
 
I pay myself $25/hr and the shop $5/hr for consumables, tools, electricity, etc.

I'll make adjustments here and there for the market, but it's not worth it for me to do it for much less.
 
Ted iin Michigan said:
I'm a bit anxious to see the replies to this one. I've been making pens, etc for a while now. I believe I'm a pretty good maker. And although I haven't done an analysis recently, when I did I figured minimum wage was a good place to start. and, yes, I know I'll get a bit of flack for that one. In Michigan (I'm in central lower Michigan) the minimum wage is $10.33/hr. And when I'm pricing pens, that is all the market will bear, which is the ultimate deciding factor. Some markets may support a higher rate, but I haven't experienced it here.
Gotta go now. My grandson came in and we need to play.
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Our minimum wage here is $7.25 if I were going to do that I might as well work fast food which often pays more than minimum. I was thinking for my skill level currently I felt like $20 was fair, more in line with what derekd pays himself. Currently, I sell them at the going rate (and I use that term loosely) of $175 for a handcrafted (no clip, rings, or finials.) I've been doing this because I felt that was fair since as a newby I may be slower than a more experienced turner. I also turn on a wood lathe not a metal lathe. I've figured my expenses in terms of pen making materials into this and there is some meat on the bone, but this doesn't factor my labor for blank making (just blank material cost.)
 
jalbert said:
$50 or so, but it really depends on the pen. If it entails more engraving or other skilled work then I'll charge closer to $50
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Yes, but your are in a different skill level than myself, but aspirations. 😀
 
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well.... wage per hour hour is a spot to start, I like Derek's idea for per hour rates. Don't under value yourself. I use a variable rate (blank, pen parts/COGS etc) along with fixed rate of a per hour when I start a quote. I typically quote everything for the pen along with a description in writing for someone to have them acknowledge before I start work. I don't really do craft shows, just orders so I'm lucky that I can usually wait for that confirmation before spending any cash for components or blanks.

I'll also say that I'm not brave enough to do custom fountain pens like you've been doing. The photos of your work are gorgeous.

I would say that your COGS will drive things as well. sit and go through everything you put into or onto a pen when you make it including some set aside for replacement tooling. I've just made things easier on myself and said that I'm going to charge a flat rate for a "shop fee" that covers the consumables and other COGS items. When I price a pen for someone who's looking for one (not family pricing...) then I use COGS shop fee as a small profit center and double it as part of the cost of the pen. If I remember correctly, you cast a lot of your own blanks and I would for sure track that as a straight fee too. You need to continue to buy resin, casting supplies and all that type of stuff.

For shipping I've typically been charging $10 because that's the rate for USPS priority box. ($10.20 actually) Shipping just increased so I'll bump my rate a commensurate amount when I see what it is. I've found the quote of $X for the pen and $10 USPS Priority Mail Shipping seems to go over better than $Y dollars ($Y = $X+$10) for the pen and free shipping. That's counter to true ecommerce experiences in most markets but that seems to help things.

I also have a minimum rate for any pen too, doesn't matter what it is. A pricing model doesn't work in my mind for some pens where the components are very inexpensive so I just use the minimum.

I know I've not outlined exactly what numbers I'm using. Somewhat on purpose because I don't know if I have that exactly nailed for my pricing or not.... I'd say I really don't actually. Discount family orders pays parts, free labor. Kids - no cost if they're making the pen at my shop (mine included and they have expensive taste), I have a good friend who I should just call a "patron and she has bulk ongoing pricing because I always have 2-3 pens on order for her to give out to her friends and clients. Her pricing is (pen components+shop fee+blank cost)x2. She orders nice stuff but is usually easily made so my $$ is usually good. Everyone else is usually the "patron" model but the multiplier is higher depending on the components and effort involve.

My difficulty is that I make a fair amount of stuff that isn't pens and I don't feel like I've got that pricing figured out whatsoever. I'd love to hear/see what others do.

Sorry this was so long

I just read some of your responses after I hit submit so adding a quick PS. If during a project I say to myself "I'm not charging enough for this BS" the rate goes up at least 30% for whoever the next person is and I don't care what my loose pricing model tells me... Cutting boards, gotta love em and hate em
 
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I pay myself -$125/week. Mostly I pay ExoticBlanks.com or MoreBeer.com +$125/week. My wife keeps telling me I need to register as a business so I can sell some of my pens, but that sounds like work and pen turning is a hobby. So, for now anyway, I'm going to just keep spending my weekly allowance on pen and beer stuff. As someone on the site has said many times before, I'm going to have the biggest pen collection in the poorhouse.

Dave

PS If that tagline belongs to you, please let me know so that I can give you proper credit whenever I comment about it. I think it is just a fantastic tagline!
 
Maybe you've said elsewhere, but are you doing this as your main source of income, a side hustle, a mildly profitable hobby, a hobby that only just pays for the next project, or what? I'd certainly be thinking differently of how to pay myself in each of those situations.

Regardless, I think a minimum of $15-$20 per hour should be a starting point. If you are creating a product someone is willing to buy, your time is worth at least that. It took me two full years making a couple pens each week before I was consistently making pens I was happy enough with to sell. That alone justifies $15/hour for my time.
 
$20 per half hour or so + $10/unit for shop. But my time is based on what the effort on the pen /should/ take, assuming no mistakes so in reality a lot lower than that.
 
RunnerVince said:
Maybe you've said elsewhere, but are you doing this as your main source of income, a side hustle, a mildly profitable hobby, a hobby that only just pays for the next project, or what? I'd certainly be thinking differently of how to pay myself in each of those situations.

Regardless, I think a minimum of $15-$20 per hour should be a starting point. If you are creating a product someone is willing to buy, your time is worth at least that. It took me two full years making a couple pens each week before I was consistently making pens I was happy enough with to sell. That alone justifies $15/hour for my time.
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For me this is a type of side hustle/main income. I'm not interested in grinding out pens like a robot…I still want to enjoy the process, but I am needing to bring in some income. I sell enough currently that pen supplies tools don't come from my personal money, however as we all know pen making isn't a inexpensive endeavor so I'm not raking it in either considering I've not been in business even a year. We're fortunate to have one full time dependable income for living expenses.
 
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RunnerVince said:
Also, I've seen some of the things you've posted, and you are certainly not overcharging. If your local market can take it, I'd give yourself a raise.
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Thank you, I'm just wanting to be in the ballpark with others with my experience. As artists/craftspeople I think it's hard to know what is fair or within being realistic to charge.
 
Personally, I've found that trying to use an hourly rate doesn't work for me. I still work a full time job and my business is more of a side hustle. For me keeping track of time is a nightmare. Some evenings I get 15 or 30 min in my shop, some days 6 hours. So I've come to use a profit margin to help offset an hourly rate. I still charge for the kit & blank, but then I add the margin on top. Works for me
 
RDHals said:
Personally, I've found that trying to use an hourly rate doesn't work for me. I still work a full time job and my business is more of a side hustle. For me keeping track of time is a nightmare. Some evenings I get 15 or 30 min in my shop, some days 6 hours. So I've come to use a profit margin to help offset an hourly rate. I still charge for the kit & blank, but then I add the margin on top. Works for me
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I find it challenging to keep up with time as well, because, for example it's been pretty hot in the garage some days triple digits which means I work in spurts with lots of breaks. I have found that getting in the habit of using my phone's stopwatch is helpful, as it will keep a running total of time as long as you remember to start and stop it. I've been using that method to get an idea of time spent making pens and nib holders.
 
I am pretty much with Dave on this one. I live in a very small rural fishing community on the west shoreline of Copano Bay in South Texas, about 300 population. Not really much of a client base. I try to make enough occasionally to pay for my pen supplies. Mostly what I do not donate to fundraisers my wife takes over giving them away. She is very supportive of this hobby vortex. I am totally in the Clint Eastwood school of thought. Stay busy and "keep th old man out"! Just saying……… Smokey😎
 
Don't know where I posted, maybe another forum, but that question was posed to a demonstrator at our defunct woodturning club. He said he figured a dollar a minute; $60 per hour for a turning piece.
 
I think there is much good information here.

My only comment to you is that your wild flower blanks are truly unique and I believe that they also take you a bit more effort to finish, right?
I think you should get a premium for that. So, if you are charging $175 for a standard alumilite blank pen, then ask at least $195 for the wild flower blank pens. Who else are they going to buy that unique pen from?

Just my 2 cents.

Disclaimer: I do not sell my pens (yet anyway), so I'm in the "biggest pen collection in the poorhouse" with Dave (@egnald)
 
My finished product business does not just make pens - we do a lot of small scenery work, built ins, custom furniture, etc. so when I'm quoting a job, I figure labor at $50/hr for most projects if there's no travel involved. When it comes to pens and other turnings, I always look at cost and time plus expendables, skill, and material quality/rarity. Figured woods, anything with a COA, rare materials, etc all get a premium added to them.
 
d_bondi said:
I think there is much good information here.

My only comment to you is that your wild flower blanks are truly unique and I believe that they also take you a bit more effort to finish, right?
I think you should get a premium for that. So, if you are charging $175 for a standard alumilite blank pen, then ask at least $195 for the wild flower blank pens. Who else are they going to buy that unique pen from?

Just my 2 cents.

Disclaimer: I do not sell my pens (yet anyway), so I'm in the "biggest pen collection in the poorhouse" with Dave (@egnald)
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The flower pens are one of the reasons I'm looking into this. I do get more for those pens, but I think I'm going to have to ask even a bit more. They are very time consuming and it's a grind to crank several out, also usually one or two fail out of several. I'm on a hiatus from them for now.
 
KateHarrow said:
My finished product business does not just make pens - we do a lot of small scenery work, built ins, custom furniture, etc. so when I'm quoting a job, I figure labor at $50/hr for most projects if there's no travel involved. When it comes to pens and other turnings, I always look at cost and time plus expendables, skill, and material quality/rarity. Figured woods, anything with a COA, rare materials, etc all get a premium added to them.
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I think that is totally plausible to consider materials as well how workable they are, rarity, etc.

I feel a bit if imposter syndrome to think I could get $50 an hour and still be in with what the market allows. I mean I know there are pens that run way above what I ask, but those are folks who make clips, rings, engrave and perhaps have impeccable internal polishing skills etc.
 
Hippie3180 said:
So, I'm taking a good look at my pricing, my cog, my consumables, my labor for making blanks as well as for making pens etc. I'm wondering what is the average for what you pay yourself per hour of labor? I'm keeping in mind that I've only been making fountains for a year in August, so not the skill level of a more experienced maker, but I'm wondering what most of you are paying yourselves in terms of an hourly wage?

Also, do you charge s&h or only charge the shipping rate that just went up in terms of USPS? We ship small USPS flat rate within the US, and charge $10. Shipping has gone from $8.41 to $8.71 so this leaves $1.29 for ink, paper, tape, tissue etc.
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Now this is not going to be what you asked but I have mentioned this is my thoughts on this subject for a long time. I started out in the scrollsaw world and making wood items and doing the craft show circuit back when it was worth the effort. But that is a subject for another time. But this questioned always got asked there too and I had the same reactions. I say you are looking at it the wrong way. Yes many here will give you enough formulas to make your head spin and I take them all with a grain of salt. Why you ask. Good question and here is why location location location!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you are going to sell your product, you can not compete with me or anyone else here. You are you and your work is not the same as anyone else here. Your quality can be different. The kits you use can be different. Your finish technique can be different. Your blank material can be different. Weather you buy someone elses blanks that are already turned and finished for you like the one person here that sells his blanks where you snap kit parts on and you call that pen making. That is not pen making at all. But with all said you have to ask yourself. The pen you are selling falls into a certain catagory unless you are doing way above one of a kind type kitless pens. Also if you are creating a one of a kind blank that does not fall into a basic catagory. By basic catagory I am talking type of kits. Sierra cigars. rollerball and fountain pen kits. Anywhere you go weather on web sites, on Etsy, Ebay or other outlets, at craft shows and so on they all fall into a certain price range and that is what you base your prices on. Throw out the idiots that sell their pens for peanuts to just make sales. they are not even in the conversation. You see this on ebays and etsy. So I never price my pens because it took so much longer than the last one because the finish did not go well or something else. So per/hr does not work. Sierra sells for around $50. Unless you did some special blank you may get more but that is all about your ability.

Not sure if I am getting my point across but I say take a look around and see what a comparible kit is going for and go from there. Add or subtract a few $$. Forget the per/hr stuff. Again unless you are making custom one of a kind pens then pick a salary but again where are you selling it and what kind of market comes into play to see if you can justify that type of pen making. Shipping is something you can not control so that is an add-on. Do not include that in your price of the pen. Goodluck. Again just my opinion and I have been doing this for over 40 years.
 
jttheclockman said:
Now this is not going to be what you asked but I have mentioned this is my thoughts on this subject for a long time. I started out in the scrollsaw world and making wood items and doing the craft show circuit back when it was worth the effort. But that is a subject for another time. But this questioned always got asked there too and I had the same reactions. I say you are looking at it the wrong way. Yes many here will give you enough formulas to make your head spin and I take them all with a grain of salt. Why you ask. Good question and here is why location location location!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you are going to sell your product, you can not compete with me or anyone else here. You are you and your work is not the same as anyone else here. Your quality can be different. The kits you use can be different. Your finish technique can be different. Your blank material can be different. Weather you buy someone elses blanks that are already turned and finished for you like the one person here that sells his blanks where you snap kit parts on and you call that pen making. That is not pen making at all. But with all said you have to ask yourself. The pen you are selling falls into a certain catagory unless you are doing way above one of a kind type kitless pens. Also if you are creating a one of a kind blank that does not fall into a basic catagory. By basic catagory I am talking type of kits. Sierra cigars. rollerball and fountain pen kits. Anywhere you go weather on web sites, on Etsy, Ebay or other outlets, at craft shows and so on they all fall into a certain price range and that is what you base your prices on. Throw out the idiots that sell their pens for peanuts to just make sales. they are not even in the conversation. You see this on ebays and etsy. So I never price my pens because it took so much longer than the last one because the finish did not go well or something else. So per/hr does not work. Sierra sells for around $50. Unless you did some special blank you may get more but that is all about your ability.

Not sure if I am getting my point across but I say take a look around and see what a comparible kit is going for and go from there. Add or subtract a few $$. Forget the per/hr stuff. Again unless you are making custom one of a kind pens then pick a salary but again where are you selling it and what kind of market comes into play to see if you can justify that type of pen making. Shipping is something you can not control so that is an add-on. Do not include that in your price of the pen. Goodluck. Again just my opinion and I have been doing this for over 40 years.
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This does make sense and basically that's what I have been doing, looking at the market around me and putting myself right in there, but I'm curious if there's a better way. I mean in the end I want to be sure I'm making a profit.

I guess in the end you can only price yourself within what the market, unless you have something very special, unusual, high end.
 
I agree with JohnT concerning Location Location Location. Having lived in Japan and knowing a couple of people who sell there, particularly Tokyo, an artistically finished pen will command $500 to $1000, but here in the Memphis TN area of N. Mississippi, the same pen will be hard to sell for more than $150 to $200. Not enough people to draw from, and different customers.

That said, another aspect is in accordance to Jalbert and Kate - superb artistic ability raises the price above the price of good looking pens. I don't have the artistic skills but will admit that I hit one once in a while. Those that stand out get a price not based on an hour but on a very good artistic creation. I will not sell one of these at that same price as a general run of the mill pen even though the run of the mill pens are precisely fitted and finished as are all that I make. Take those exceptional ones and charge by the artistic value bestowed upon them, even if it is by accident - like mine are.
 
Hippie3180 said:
So, I'm taking a good look at my pricing, my cog, my consumables, my labor for making blanks as well as for making pens etc. I'm wondering what is the average for what you pay yourself per hour of labor? I'm keeping in mind that I've only been making fountains for a year in August, so not the skill level of a more experienced maker, but I'm wondering what most of you are paying yourselves in terms of an hourly wage?

Also, do you charge s&h or only charge the shipping rate that just went up in terms of USPS? We ship small USPS flat rate within the US, and charge $10. Shipping has gone from $8.41 to $8.71 so this leaves $1.29 for ink, paper, tape, tissue etc.
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I've decided to approach all this in a different way. For cutting boards and bowls I'll charge $28 a board foot (before cutting away). That means if I start off with a bowl blank that if 9" x 9" x 4", that is going to be 2.25 bdft. That'll cost $63.00. So much simpler for me to do it that way. I will charge a little more if the wood species is exceptional or rare. I know I'll never sell anything if I pay myself what I believe I'm worth an hour. I do this all on the side. I'm a full-time preacher. If I'm not doing work for the church I spend time with my wife. If none of those are an option, I'd just read or watch a movie or something. So, it's time I'm not getting paid anyway. So, instead of watching TV. I'll go to the shop and make some things I enjoy. This way my hobby has not become a JOB where I lose interest in my hobby.

I'm also keen on a few passages of the Bible about paying fairly but even more so, charging properly. I'd rather be on the low end of what I charge rather the high side where I feel I'm cheating someone. I know there is fine line in all of this, and I may adjust pricing along the way. Oh... I just charge the shipping cost (plus box if I have to buy a box for the item)... but I won't stretch that cost for "handling." For me, it would be unethical.

Having said all that... I don't have a problem with others doing what they do or what they charge. You have to do what you see as morally correct. Also, I will say, that if I'm at a show or festival and I am really lower in price than others... I'll feel bad about it... I don't want to take their business either. And yes, I've said this a thousand times... I'm a horrible businessman. That's why I do what I do for a living... Preach/Research/Counsel.
 
I know that time studies are a pain, but necessary. You don't need to track very one you make but enough to know about how long each process takes. I tracked a dozen or more pens and a few batches, enough to be comfortable pricing the pens I make based on this. As I get faster, better and more efficient the rate naturally increases.
I consider my market to be the USA. My locality is of no consideration. I include shipping in the final price as I think it is what people expect.
I don't think taxes have been mentioned. This also needs to be considered.
I have chosen not to make three piece pens. That part of the market is over saturated.
I have chosen to concentrate on developing a unique style and keeping high standards of quality.
I make them in small numbers because i found very little time savings working in batches.
I know of one maker that concentrates on embedded floral pens and they look to be top quality.
(If you want to know more DM me)
 
A load of information here that would be most valuable. Somewhere, sometime, it was suggested for free wood to figure what it would cost if bought and still figure that into the cost and selling price.
 
PreacherJon said:
I've decided to approach all this in a different way. For cutting boards and bowls I'll charge $28 a board foot (before cutting away). That means if I start off with a bowl blank that if 9" x 9" x 4", that is going to be 2.25 bdft. That'll cost $63.00. So much simpler for me to do it that way. I will charge a little more if the wood species is exceptional or rare. I know I'll never sell anything if I pay myself what I believe I'm worth an hour. I do this all on the side. I'm a full-time preacher. If I'm not doing work for the church I spend time with my wife. If none of those are an option, I'd just read or watch a movie or something. So, it's time I'm not getting paid anyway. So, instead of watching TV. I'll go to the shop and make some things I enjoy. This way my hobby has not become a JOB where I lose interest in my hobby.

I'm also keen on a few passages of the Bible about paying fairly but even more so, charging properly. I'd rather be on the low end of what I charge rather the high side where I feel I'm cheating someone. I know there is fine line in all of this, and I may adjust pricing along the way. Oh... I just charge the shipping cost (plus box if I have to buy a box for the item)... but I won't stretch that cost for "handling." For me, it would be unethical.

Having said all that... I don't have a problem with others doing what they do or what they charge. You have to do what you see as morally correct. Also, I will say, that if I'm at a show or festival and I am really lower in price than others... I'll feel bad about it... I don't want to take their business either. And yes, I've said this a thousand times... I'm a horrible businessman. That's why I do what I do for a living... Preach/Research/Counsel.
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I make and sell a good number of cutting boards, also. Just sold one this morning!

The above hourly rate applies whether we're taking boards or pens. What I didn't mention above is materials costs. Those are tossed into the mix, also. Since I do pens & boards in batches, I've done the time studies @PatrickR spoke of above and use that to figure how much time I have in, whether an item was a custom order or part of a larger batch.

For me, it simplifies things, guarantees I make at least some money, and helps set market expectations. People on Etsy who are basically giving away their product for cost are hurting the market for the rest of us, unfortunately.
 
derekdd said:
I make and sell a good number of cutting boards, also. Just sold one this morning!

The above hourly rate applies whether we're taking boards or pens. What I didn't mention above is materials costs. Those are tossed into the mix, also. Since I do pens & boards in batches, I've done the time studies @PatrickR spoke of above and use that to figure how much time I have in, whether an item was a custom order or part of a larger batch.

For me, it simplifies things, guarantees I make at least some money, and helps set market expectations. People on Etsy who are basically giving away their product for cost are hurting the market for the rest of us, unfortunately.
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That is exactly why I have an independent website. I think Etsy is kind of counterintuitive, if someone is searching for fountain pens…all the competition comes up along with yours + those that under price hurt the market. Many underprice because they either don't do the market research, don't do studies of the time it takes to make a pen, undervalue their work, or they think they'll make up for it in volume, either way it undermines the market value for others. This equates to a disaster for the market and value of any product.
 
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I see underpricing everywhere. I've talked to a lot of potential customers who have a budget of approximately $200. My pens don't start that low. Some are willing to budge and some not, but I don't.
For materials I mark them up 33% to cover ordering , handling etc. I picked that number as it was the standard in my former trade.
 
Hippie3180 said:
So, I'm taking a good look at my pricing, my cog, my consumables, my labor for making blanks as well as for making pens etc. I'm wondering what is the average for what you pay yourself per hour of labor? I'm keeping in mind that I've only been making fountains for a year in August, so not the skill level of a more experienced maker, but I'm wondering what most of you are paying yourselves in terms of an hourly wage?

Also, do you charge s&h or only charge the shipping rate that just went up in terms of USPS? We ship small USPS flat rate within the US, and charge $10. Shipping has gone from $8.41 to $8.71 so this leaves $1.29 for ink, paper, tape, tissue etc.
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I typically charge by the pen , a basic Slim line pen depending on the blank, I charge 20 to 25 dollars. If it is a more extotic or specialty blank ie historical or unique I adjust my price accordingly. I also turn kitchen utensils, pizza cutter, veg peelers and ice cream scoops. I charge anywhere from 20 for the peelers to 45 for the pizza cutter.
Cheers Bob McCabe
PS I am in Canada so I operate in Canadian dollars lol 😆
 
Hippie3180 said:
That is exactly why I have an independent website. I think Etsy is kind of counterintuitive, if someone is searching for fountain pens…all the competition comes up along with yours + those that under price hurt the market. Many underprice because they either don't do the market research, don't do studies of the time it takes to make a pen, undervalue their work, or they think they'll make up for it in volume, either way it undermines the market value for others. This equates to a disaster for the market and value of any product.
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Etsy is a nice option if you have zero interest/ability with the business side as they do it all for you. However, the cost of that is pretty steep. I certainly understand why so many go this route though.

They also do not care if you sell anything and will, in fact send a potential customer to your competition as they only care if they make a sale, not if you make one.

That approach has always rubbed me the wrong way. I have an undergrad degree in biz and have run businesses before, so the accounting, marketing, etc., doesn't bother me that much. Just part of the deal.

I recently bought a fountain pen from @Aces-High with Flatiron Woodturning while visiting Etsy, so it definitely works.
 
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derekdd said:
Etsy is a nice option if you have zero interest/ability with the business side as they do it all for you. However, the cost of that is pretty steep. I certainly understand why so many go this route though.

They also do not care if you sell anything and will, in fact send a potential customer to your competition as they only care if they make a sale, not if you make one.

That approach has always rubbed me the wrong way. I have an undergrad degree in biz and have run businesses before, so the accounting, marketing, etc., doesn't bother me that much. Just part of the deal.

I recently bought a fountain pen from @Aces-High with Flatiron Woodturning while visiting Etsy, so it definitely works.
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so I work for a pretty large company and the ethics of purchasing items from fellow employees who may or may not be at various levels of management from each other gets brought up from time to time. I know I have a couple people who would buy something immediately if they knew they could go on Etsy and buy it because then it's a "public purchase". Hilariously enough I've held off on setting up a store because I know one of the people would really like a pen but I'm going to gift him one because, well, I just will. I don't report underneath his ladder but will still tell him a retail price in case he needs it for his peace of mind. His retail price will just be whatever our limit for gifts is set at though.
 
I pay myself the same rate I pay myself when reading a book - nothing. I want to do it, I find it fun, and the few sales I make tend to pay just for materials... I mostly give my pens away, so it's just a hobby. If I sell an item, it's meant to pay for supplies and an add-on based on what the market can stomach...but it's just for fun for me, not a business.

Cost is per item, and essentially just gauged based on market conditions...side hustles are mostly for enjoyment.

Imagine if we had to pay market hourly rate for everything people make....Italian Sunday sauce would cost a fortune! (But it'd be worth it!) :)
 
I have no idea what I pay myself. I just report the gross sales to the IRS every year. When I vend, I donate 50% of gross sale (minus vending expenses) to St Jude Children's Hospital. At the end of the year I keep about $1500 to start the next year with. Any amount above that goes to other charities before Dec 31. Come tax time itemize my expenses(booth fees, supplies, etc), travel, and contributions, and take it down to my tax accountant and let her figure out the mess. Well worth the $350 or so, which is also a business expense.
 
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