Whadaya think?? Scrimshaw

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Is laser engraving a version of "scrimshaw"

  • Of course it is, no further explanation needed

    Votes: 8 12.1%

  • Call it "automated" scrimshaw (or your suggestion)

    Votes: 11 16.7%

  • It's laser engraving, tell them that and lose the sale. (you'll to to heaven!)

    Votes: 41 62.1%

  • My suggestion is listed below and it's MUCH better than your choices, Ed!!!

    Votes: 6 9.1%
  • Total voters
    66
  • Poll closed .
I think we're quibbling. There's nothing wrong with answering the question 'is that scrimshaw?' with 'No, that's engraving. Pretty nice looking, isn't it?" Just as long as you don't try and sell it for scrimshaw prices there shouldn't be an issue. And that's not the kind of behavior I would expect from you.
 
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How about this.
At the grocery store if they don't want to market it as "imitation crab" they'll change the spelling on the label to "Krab".
Thus, "Skrimshaw"
 
Boy, the debate of art. You can't win, what is art, or how it is made, just an impossible debate. What you can do is have integrity and tell the customer exactly how it was made. A laser will never catch the value that the human hand can. The laser can not catch the imperfections, and no matter how good a carver you are, there are imperfections in your work, just ask the carver, he'll show you even if you don't see it. So, I would allow it to be called laser scrimshaw, not hand made scrimshaw. Remember, if the laser dies, or the user of the laser, the software lives on and thus can be duplicated to absolute perfection. When the human carver dies, there is no duplications possible, only re-interpretations from another carver. And then..no matter how many hours you slave over the computer to make the laser do it's work, it's never as many hours as it takes a carver...once the laser is keyed in, it's production time. The carver, just one day at a time. There's so much that can be said. Laser has it's place in the art world, it's just a different place. Tell the customer, it is laser scrimshaw, don't mislead them, but stand behind the pen at the same time.
 
Methinks this quodlibetic is mildly amusing. However, to quote my friend, Tharg, "Moop eep og!" Which, being interpreted, means roughly, "Whilst you expostulate this flummery, your brontosaurus steak is getting cold."

Engraving.
 
OKLAHOMAN said:
As some of you know I had Ken Engrave an antler pen I called "Trail of Tears" and last night I posted another antler Emperor I said was a scrimshawed feather. To set the record straight the pen last night IS SCRIMSHAW done by a very well know scrimshaw artist Jessie Ghere Feather and the person who bought the engraved pen knows it was engraved and whoever buys the scrimshaw pen will know who did the scrimshaw. But I do agree with Lou that any type of scratching be it by machine or hand tool could be called scrimshaw.
From the Websters New World Dictionary:
scrim-shaw: 1. carving done on shells, bone, ivory, etc 2. an article or articles so made.
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Using this definition from Websters then Laser Engraving is not scrimshaw. I say this because if you look up the definition of "carving" (I looked on Wiki) it says carving is done with handheld tools (can be power tools). Since the laser is not handheld it is not carving and therefore not scrimshaw. Now, if you want to hold that laser in your hand and do it then maybe we can reconsider:).
 
Ed,
I think I'm going to start using the phrase scrimshaw nouveau. I like the ring of it, I like the coupling of something historic like scrimshaw with the word nouveau which by definition means "new and different, often fashionably so."

Also I have another little home craft business called Nouveau Lithics which is about flint knapping anachronistic stone tools. I mean things like a folding pocket knife with a stone blade, fiberglass hunting arrows with stone points, a filet knife with a stone blade and corian handle.

The phrase fits my self-visualized, self-effaced demeanour pretty good; an oxymoron hiding within an enigma. ......waiting for the defeaning silence to build.....
 
Gerry,

By now you should know there will be no reaction, unless you write in American.

Try again:

Maybe, "Yeah, Scrimshaw Noveau" sounds good to me!!!

That will start a discussion (argument).
 
scrimshaw nouveau

ed4copies said:
there will be no reaction, unless you write in American.
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Write in American?! Me? OK, I'll try.

I agree with you, I think scrimshaw nouveau is a great phrase to use to describe laser engraved scrimshaw style pens.
 
Ed, I'm going to ask you a question. You've seen the Compucarve machines that Sears has I'm sure, is a piece that comes out of that machine a carving? No human hand was used to go from flat wood to finished piece. I say it's a carving and that what you have done to the pen is either carving or scrimshaw if the material being carved fits the definition. the method of the carving is not an issue. 100 years ago, rotary tools weren't even thought of and yet they are one of the more common tools used in scrimshawing today.

technology changes with time and all art forms change along with the technology.
 
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I like Ken's term of simulated schrimshaw or the aforementioned laser scrimshaw. It stills uses the term scrimshaw but also provides the information that it is not hand carved.
 
Thinking more about this, I would simply tell a customer "yes, it is scrimshaw, but not traditional hand carved"

Think about it guys. You can get carved pieces, and inlaid pieces and dovetailed pieces. But when someone says its hand-carved, hand-inlaid or hand-cut dovetails then you undetstand that the price is going up. If they don't say this, then you assume it's machined. Does it mean less quality? no. but less time consuming and thereforeless expensive.
 
Russianwolf said:
But when someone says its hand-carved, hand-inlaid or hand-cut dovetails then you undetstand that the price is going up. If they don't say this, then you assume it's machined. Does it mean less quality? no. but less time consuming and thereforeless expensive.
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Unless it's a pen. Then a mass produced MontBlanc is $495 and a nicer handcrafted pen is $100. :confused:
 
DCBluesman said:
Unless it's a pen. Then a mass produced MontBlanc is $495 and a nicer handcrafted pen is $100. :confused:
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depends on the hand-crafter.... how much do some of the Gisi sell for? or a Namiki?

Mont Blancs sell for those prices not because they are better, but because they have history.

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention. How many on this site have done a Celtic Knot pen? I think only 1 that I've seen has been a true celtic knot as on the segmented pens one circle is continuous around the pen, a true celtic knot doesn't have a continuous segment. The only one that I'vve seen that was a true celtic knot was a carved knot.
 
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Ed I would have to say that admitting the work is laser engraving instead of scrimshaw would be the same as saying the pen is plastic instead of alternate ivory. Sometimes in order to make a sale, you will tell the customer only part of the facts. Too much information is dangerous to business sometimes. Modern Scrimshaw does sound lke what it is..sort of.
 
"It's done in a scrimshaw style by an extremely talented laser-engraving artist."

I've seen $5 a line laser work..... then there are artists.
 
I think that telling people it is engraved is the best way. Making new language could be problematic because you would have to tell everyone what the definition of the word is and I think that would take a lot of time and the sale wouldn't happen anyway.
 
This can be simplified by simply calling something "Laser engraved scrimshaw" or "Hand engraved scrimshaw". I don't think anyone can argue the idea that regardless, it falls under the heading of scrimshaw.

What's being asked about it the manner in how it's accomplished. If neglecting to call out the fact that it's laser engraved didn't strike us as somehow wrong, there wouldn't even be a question in your mind about it. Being that there is, it's probably there for a reason.

Lable it "Laser engraved scrimshaw" or "Hand engraved scrimshaw", simple as that.
 
I'd call it 'Lasered Scrimshaw'.......as using a laser is a form of carving, even though it's an automated endeavor (once everything is setup). You'll probably only get 'THAT' question when the carving is on 'bone' or 'antler'.
 
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