Vick signs with eagles

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Being from Atlanta, and watching Vick as a star for his "tenure" here in Atlanta, I can tell you right now, I am glad he signed with anyone who plays against the Falcons. We endured seasons where Vick was a super star and saved the Falcons from losing a few games more than they should, but hey, when you are a Falcons fan, you know that kind of pain. One person cannot play in the NFL and win games by himself.

He is all for himself, and quite frankly, never was part of the team here. He is not very bright, and as one woman interviewed at the ESPN Zone from Philly stated "the offensive scheme up there is one of the most complex in the NFL, and it will take years for someone to come in and learn the scheme". Vick is not bright enough to get the team concept, so if you think he is going to thrive in Philly, I would point out that Atlanta had to "dumb" down the scheme here for him.

Amazing athlete, and has talent, and now has a history that is not very nice by normal standards....Just right for the NFL. There never will be a football league or baseball or name your sport here, (other than NASCAR), that will have responsible, real people throughout. You have some nice people in sports, but most of them are folks who couldnt cut the college scene, and certainly wont in real life given they are spoiled rotten, and treated like celebrities. Too much money, and no real standards as a human being, and that is the real NFL. Quite frankly, if you can keep them all in one place, and have them hammering on themselves all the time, so much the better.
 
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Rojo22 said:
There never will be a football league or baseball or name your sport here, (other than NASCAR), that will have responsible, real people throughout.
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Really? Nascar? I think their latest and greatest has a meth problem. Just saying, ALL sports have their problems. As do each one of us.
 
rjwolfe3 said:
Don't forget that ex Browns player may soon be playing again. Of course people don't seem to be as angry with him as Vick. I mean after all he just killed a human being while drunk and then spent a month in jail.:eek: I mean Vick did much, much worse things then that.:biggrin::tongue:
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Stallworth isn't going to be playing or getting paid this year. I don't expect the Browns to keep him after that.
 
Wheaties said:
Really? Nascar? I think their latest and greatest has a meth problem. Just saying, ALL sports have their problems. As do each one of us.
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Their latest & greatest has had to sell his Nascar equipment because nobody wanted to sponser him. He's done in Nascar - as he should be.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjwolfe3
Don't forget that ex Browns player may soon be playing again. Of course people don't seem to be as angry with him as Vick. I mean after all he just killed a human being while drunk and then spent a month in jail.:eek: I mean Vick did much, much worse things then that.:biggrin::tongue:

Stallworth isn't going to be playing or getting paid this year. I don't expect the Browns to keep him after that.
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That's why I said ex. But he has asked for permission to come back and probably will get it and will be playing for someone. My point is: why is there no backlash against Stallworth? What makes his situation any different then Vick's? Stallworth murdered someone while driving drunk. Vick beat up and killed some dogs. Our ancestors did worse then that raising animals. Please understand that I think what Vick did was horrible but it not on the same level as taking someone else's life.
 
Wheaties said:
Yeah.... I'm sure that will work just as well as the gas protests worked. Good luck to you if you hop on that bandwagon.
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:confused::confused: Gas protest don't work because if you boycott one company, they just sell to someone else (another country). It's a commodity and as long as there is a demand for it, there will be a buyer somewhere.

boycotts of sponsors to effect something like this can and have worked in the past. Remember that by signing him, the Eagles/NFL have associated him with all their sponsors. Many of the Sponsors will not be happy with the decisions and if they hear from their consumers enough, they will pull their money out of the deal.

Remember, Many sponsors dropped their associations with Phelps over a picture, not a conviction.
 
Russianwolf said:
:confused::confused: Gas protest don't work because if you boycott one company, they just sell to someone else (another country). It's a commodity and as long as there is a demand for it, there will be a buyer somewhere.

boycotts of sponsors to effect something like this can and have worked in the past. Remember that by signing him, the Eagles/NFL have associated him with all their sponsors. Many of the Sponsors will not be happy with the decisions and if they hear from their consumers enough, they will pull their money out of the deal.

Remember, Many sponsors dropped their associations with Phelps over a picture, not a conviction.
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Ok, but I still think it will have the same effectiveness. When coaches, players, owners, GM's, and the commissioner are ok with it. I think the juggernaut that is the NFL will be fine.
 
Hhhmmm... yep, I missed it. But I don't know that I'd call him NASCAR's latest and greatest. Many other drivers are better.

Just did a little research. His own mother outted him! Dude! That has to suck. And after two failed tests in a year, he'll lilkely not find a sponsor.
 
Jeremy Mayfield was never the latest and greatest in Nascar. Most the time he was lucky to be in the top 20. He wasn't signed to a team when all this went down, he had to start up his own team. But yes he had to sell off all of his equipment for the problems.

Nascar has one of the strongest drug policies in sports. He's not the first to have a lifetime ban from "all sponsored Nascar" events. Which include more than the top 3 series seen on tv. There are basically no places he can go to race now.

James
 
Phunky_2003 said:
Jeremy Mayfield was never the latest and greatest in Nascar. Most the time he was lucky to be in the top 20. He wasn't signed to a team when all this went down, he had to start up his own team. But yes he had to sell off all of his equipment for the problems.

Nascar has one of the strongest drug policies in sports. He's not the first to have a lifetime ban from "all sponsored Nascar" events. Which include more than the top 3 series seen on tv. There are basically no places he can go to race now.

James
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Sorry. I meant the latest and greatest situation that nascar had to deal with. After re-reading my post I see where the confusion lies because I don't know anyone who thinks he's good.
 
Zach

I should clarify also. He may not have been to the expectations of others. Running in the top 35 of Nascar clears you quite a chunk of change from sponors and winnings. And he did make it to the top level of racing.

But I will say I do know of 3 other drivers who have lifetime bans from drugs and/or performance inhancing drugs in Nascar. They also suspended drivers and docked points for bringing negative spotlights on the sport. One driver a few years back suspended 6 races docked 100 point for dui( and he didn't hit anybody, just pulled over).

They are far better at "policing" their sport than any other. Thats just the point I was trying to make.

James
 
jkeithrussell said:
On Vick, if you don't like it, don't watch. It's as simple as that.

I'm glad that no one has beaten me down over the last 20+ years over some of the mistakes that I made when I was young. To read some of these posts, I guess I'm lucky that I wasn't hauled out back and shot for the protection of all mankind. To make the point a little finer, I did some bad things when I was a teenager and young adult, but I didn't get the memo that I wasn't able to overcome my upbringing. To say that "you can't get away from your raising" is, in my personal experience, false.
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I couldn't agree more with you! I did more than my fair share of "brain meltdown decisions" while younger. And learned quite a bit from it. How your raised or where your raised has no bearing on you as a man and the decisions you make in your life. Something that really gets me is when someone says........... awwwww well he gets that honest, look at how he was raised. Dont make excuses!
 
I kind of like "Vick's" prospective being applied to him . . .

When he can no longer perform at the level expected of him, HANG & BURN him as he did the dogs . . .

I like dogs, have never been lied to by a dog, have never been robbed or cheated by a dog.

Only people are capable of outright cruelty . . . If he were anybody else, like Joe Smuck everyone would be saying he deserves life in prison . . .

For some I'm sure he's a hero, thats OK the world needs more losers . . .

Steve
 
I apologize to anyone who took offense to my statement of "you can't get away from your raising". I don't include youthful indiscretions nor do I include rebellious activities. We all go through "learning experiences" and nary a one of us walks this planet without something we regret (myself specifically included). However, my comment stands as a generalization. If your parents, family, friends, neighborhood, etc. teach you killing is ok or slinging crack is the only way to make a living or that cheating is the only way to win, you learn what you are taught. My comment directly applied to the ghetto manner in which Vick and his thug posse and thug brother were "TAUGHT" to act and view the world (there are also many things that went on behind the scenes here in Atlanta that the general public never heard of - as is the case with most professional athletes). I agree that there are no excuses but to ignore that a certain segment of society is being taught to look at the world from a totally different perspective doesn't take into consideration the reality of the situation and belies any effort to correct same before it gets to the point of someone getting killed. The mentality is that they are above the law (or forgotten by it) because they do that which is banned and have not been stopped up to the point of when they are. Then it is society's fault or a racial thing or lack of understanding or Mommy didn't love me enough or whatever. Very few who go knee deep into the thicket can come back totally. Also remember the details: He tested positive for Herpes in college under the name "Ron Mexico"; he got into trouble going through the airport with a faked bttomed water bottle (typically used for smuggling drugs); It wasn't just dog fighting - A major reason his posse turned on him was the drugs found, etc, etc.
The kids brought up in such who are ACTIVE in the lifestyle during their formative years (as opposed to those brought up around it but never become gangbangers themselves) have their whole way of looking at things changed. To reverse the effects, you have to break them back down to almost the level they were when their manner of analysis was deformed. To anyone here who grew up with depravity drilled into you, who actually participated in various major felonies (killing, raping, etc) and who made it out to correct the way in which you view society and make decisions, I applaud you. To ANYONE offended by my comment, I am sorry.
 
Yeah..with a team valued at over a billion dollars and 237 million in revenue last year alone they will really care if people stop drinking snapple because of michael vick? His total contract is an 8th of a percent of their total value. If one of the sponsors drops the Eagles, three more will beg to take their place. The NFL is the richest professional sports league in the country. You need to think of it as a business decision and nothing else. Everyone agrees what he did is horrible, but he's paid his pennance according to our system, and he will pay his pennance when his judgement day comes.

Someone mentioned Johnny Cash. He killed a man and is one of the most famous singers of all time. I don't hear anyone badmouthing him.

I will not judge Vick because it's not my job. I'm not perfect, so who am I to judge him?
 
Jason -- I certainly did not take offense at what you said. I doubt you could offend me in a personal way if you tried. I don't agree with you (at least not entirely), but I do enjoy discussing it, and I know you have good reasons for your opinions. I take it for granted that people are posting on threads like these to exchange ideas, and not to get in a fuss. It doesn't hurt my feelings at all to read a contrary point of view.
 
jleiwig said:
Yeah..with a team valued at over a billion dollars and 237 million in revenue last year alone they will really care if people stop drinking snapple because of michael vick? His total contract is an 8th of a percent of their total value. If one of the sponsors drops the Eagles, three more will beg to take their place. The NFL is the richest professional sports league in the country. You need to think of it as a business decision and nothing else. Everyone agrees what he did is horrible, but he's paid his pennance according to our system, and he will pay his pennance when his judgement day comes.

Someone mentioned Johnny Cash. He killed a man and is one of the most famous singers of all time. I don't hear anyone badmouthing him.

I will not judge Vick because it's not my job. I'm not perfect, so who am I to judge him?
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Good post.
 
JKeithRussell: GOOD! No offense was intended.

Now, who did Johnny Cash kill? I know he sang a song about it but I only know about him getting caught with pills crossing the border from Mexico???
 
I took the Johnny Cash reference as metaphorical, but I may have missed something. Cash was rumored to have killed a man, because of the lyrics, but I don't know that it is anything other than a myth.
 
jleiwig said:
Yeah..with a team valued at over a billion dollars and 237 million in revenue last year alone they will really care if people stop drinking snapple because of michael vick? His total contract is an 8th of a percent of their total value. If one of the sponsors drops the Eagles, three more will beg to take their place. The NFL is the richest professional sports league in the country. You need to think of it as a business decision and nothing else. Everyone agrees what he did is horrible, but he's paid his pennance according to our system, and he will pay his pennance when his judgement day comes.

Someone mentioned Johnny Cash. He killed a man and is one of the most famous singers of all time. I don't hear anyone badmouthing him.

I will not judge Vick because it's not my job. I'm not perfect, so who am I to judge him?
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Will the Eagles care at first? Maybe not, but Snapple will. They are being associated with Vick through their sponsorship of the team. This is a concern for their Public Relations Team as well as it is for The Eagles PR people.

Sponsoring a team is advertising, you advertise to increase sales, but when an advertisement starts decreasing sales what do you do? You stop the advertisement. Now, If I'm the CEO of Y and I see X drop a sponsorship because they are being boycotted and losing sales, Am I going to "beg to take their place" and pick up that sponsorship and risk decreasing my sales? I think not.

The Sponsors pay Millions to the teams/nfl for the advertisement, that's millions of decreased revenue to the teams/nfl when they start dropping the sponsorships. Will they care?

Think of it as a business decision? I think I just did.
 
jkeithrussell said:
I took the Johnny Cash reference as metaphorical, but I may have missed something. Cash was rumored to have killed a man, because of the lyrics, but I don't know that it is anything other than a myth.
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It is a myth...I thought I had deleted it from my post. LOL..oops..I was thinking of Dwayne Chapman....AKA Dog the bounty hunter.

It still gets the point across though that they are just humans doing a job.
 
Russianwolf said:
Think of it as a business decision? I think I just did.
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Not really...or you would realize that advertising in the NFL is the most cuthroat of all advertising. How much does a 30 second ad during the all star game or world series go for? How about the Stanley Cup? Pennies on the dollar compared to the NFL. The NFL is the Mecca of sports advertising dollars.

Budweiser isn't even the official sponsor of the NFL, Coors is, but who has more superbowl commercials at around 3 million for 30 seconds?


As a sponsor you get the privelege to use the teams logos, not the other way around. Do you see snapple billboards at the eagles stadium? No, but you could see "Snapple, the officially licensed drink of the Philadelphia Eagles"

Pepsi spent over 1 billion dollars for their NFL contract. Do you think they are going to renig on that kind of money because of little Michael Vick?

Like I said..the Eagles could care less if Snapple or any other company stopped being a sponsor. Ok Snapple..don't be a sponsor...Monster or Rock Star or any of the other 30 billion energy drink manufacturers will take your place in a heartbeat. Other companies will beg at the chance to be a sponsor of an NFL team. The NFL even has it's own toilet paper sponsorship agreement with Proctor & Gamble. Trust me..this will be non-blip on the radar of any major sponsor.

Sponsors only acount for 3.3% of all sports revenue across all sports. Endorsements only .5%....so not a big deal at all.
 
Plus the question assumes that the sponsors will actually drop. I doubt they will. The Vick drama will add viewers and people buying tickets to the games. That's more people to see the advertising. Vick is drama, and drama draws crowds. That's a big part of the reason why the Eagles signed him. I know people are angry about what he did, as they should be. But, you have to keep it in context. In a weird example, think about Michael Jackson. He made untold mountains of money after he was accused (credibly, in my opinion) of being a child molester, dangled his child off a balcony, etc. Why didn't the world rise up in righteous indignation and boycott Michael Jackson? Because people love drama. And advertisers love people.
 
Okay - I've sat back a little bit and waited until I could clarify my thoughts a little better. And the question I have is: "Whats the big problem?"

I mean, if you believe in our justice system, then Vick served his time and should be allowed to return to life as a contributing member of society right? If you believe in any sort of religion, then I'm sure you believe in forgivness right? So I ask again, what is the big problem?

Sure dog fighting is deplorable, but so are so many other things - like human rights violations. I don't condone what Vick did, and punishment should fit the crime - the question now is, was Vick's punishment adequate for the crime committed. If so, then we as a society need to respect that decision. Sure there will be people who aren't happy with the punishment (members of PETA probably think he should have got more time, people who dog fight probably think he got too much) - but by and large I'm sure most people feel the punishment fit the crime.

With regards to the NFL and his signing with the Eagles - You're free to stop watching the NFL and the Eagles at any time - you're free to stop buying products from their sponsors, but again, because most people will accept that the punishment fit the crime, this boycot of the NFL won't make a lick of difference. Its ironic that folks will condem Vick for dog fighting and boycott the NFL and Eagles, but will order more pen kits from China.

Further, someone mentioned the "Right to play in the NFL" - everyone has that right to some degree. I mean, it is our physical limitations and talent that prevent us from playing. Where the gray line is drawn is can women play in the NFL? Technically the NFL can't discriminate based on gender, but there hasn't been a woman play in the NFL that I know of. So why does Vick get the right to play in the NFL - because there is nothing prohibiting him from doing so. I suppose the prosecutors could have put it in their plea agreements, or the NFL could have enacted policy prohibiting players from playing if they have a felony on their record - but they haven't and I suspect won't. If you make the argument that he shouldn't play in the NFL because he will be a role model for kids - then I would argue that the parents of said kids should teach their children what the difference between a good role model and a bad role model is.

Finally - and someone hit on this earlier in the thread - the crime involved dogs. It wasn't like he was making people fight or gambling on said people fight. Why is it okay to bash on Vick and call for him to be "Hung & Burn as he did the dogs" - yet less outrage is expressed against folks like Ted Kennedy (remember Mary Jo Kopechne?) or James Brown (Weapons & Drugs). Why is there such disparity between crimes committed against people (including children) versus crimes committed against animals?
 
I think all of us need to take another look at ourselves and refocus OUR priorities. At the time I'm writing this there are 775 views and 64 posts in this thread while there is another thread that has 75 views and only 1 post on a subject that in my mind at least is a lot more deserving of attention than whether Vick should or shouldn't be allowed to play in the NFL. What's that subject? The return of the remains of Captain Scott Speicher.
 
My point about NASCAR was that it polices itself. You screw up, they make sure you either pay for it, or you are gone. Can someone also give me an example of a sporting event that has a prayer or invocation where all faiths stand and pray together before the event starts without the ACLU protesting? For all the bad press NASCAR gets for being a "redneck" sport, they certainly get a lot of things right.

You want to see thugs getting paid millions of bucks to beat up on each other, the NFL is certainly the place for "second", "third", "fourth".....chances....because its a business decision for the NFL. Says a ton through actions about how you run your business by letting these thugs earn millions of bucks, and influence your kids......
 
Wheaties said:
True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason),
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Zach, Part of the problems with our society is that our children are more apt to mimic a Professional athlete than they are someone that actually is, or should be a role model like a teacher.
In some country's educators are still held in the highest esteem UNFORTUNATELY this isn't one of them, and we wonder why our nation is falling behind on every educational level.


jkeithrussell said:
I took the Johnny Cash reference as metaphorical, but I may have missed something. Cash was rumored to have killed a man, because of the lyrics, but I don't know that it is anything other than a myth.
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James, I think they were referring to his drug use.
 
"Commissioner Roger Goodell and the Philadelphia Eagles have granted
Michael Vick a second chance, and the ASPCA expects Mr. Vick to express
remorse for his actions, as well as display more compassion and sound judgment
this time around than he did during his previous tenure with the NFL. We hope
that Mr. Vick uses his stature for the betterment of the community and the
advancement of the issue of animal cruelty."

--Ed Sayres, President and CEO
of The ASPCA (The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals )
 
Peta has been one of the most vocal groups against Vick's being allowed to play again in the NFL. Many fail to remember that PETA was busted for killing dogs and dumping them in dumpsters. Can you spell Hippocrate without the letters PETA. He was an jerk and did some really dumb and stupid things. But he did not kill a person, rape a lady or molest a child. That puts him a step above the NFL player who was drunk and killed a person. It puts him a step above Mike Tyson. And it puts him a step above Michael Jackson. Flawed, but not the scum of the Earth.

He was a jerk, he did something really stupid. He should pay a major price for his stupid, senseless act. I say about a hundred million dollars. Maybe a year in jail. Maybe have everyone he knows assume is he is a jerk. Be publicly humiliated and cause his entire family untold embarrassment. Oh, he has done that all ready.

Truth is that he is not that great of a NFL quarterback and the NFL and game will soon leave him behind. Never been that big of a fan of his and will not become one in the future.
 
jfoh, that is what I said, he is not that great a quarterback anyway. However, he will be an imprvement over Mcnab.
 
No Way

DocStram said:
" . . . teachers and the like are a dime a dozen . . . " how insulting to America's educators.

So a pro athlete can run a 4.2 40 . . . my wife just stayed up until 2:30 this morning writing lesson plans . . . and she left for school at 6 this morning to face 21 first graders. Let's see a pro athlete do that.
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You could not even pay me to face a bunch of first graders. It takes a lot more (excuess the expression) BALLs to keep them in check let alone their attention spans.:cool::cool:
 
Jgrden said:
jfoh, that is what I said, he is not that great a quarterback anyway. However, he will be an imprvement over Mcnab.
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Vick cannot read a defense. He wants to run on his own, and be his own player. At least Mcnabb can run down maybe 2 or 3 options before he takes off, but Vick is not disciplined enough to make the other players a critical part of the offense. He does not protect the football, and just as many good plays are followed up by fumbles. We had enough of him in Atlanta, without all the other junk he did here. Good luck with him, but he is a selfish ball hog, who could care less about following an offensive scheme.
 
jimbob91577 said:
Okay - I've sat back a little bit and waited until I could clarify my thoughts a little better. And the question I have is: "Whats the big problem?"

I mean, if you believe in our justice system, then Vick served his time and should be allowed to return to life as a contributing member of society right? If you believe in any sort of religion, then I'm sure you believe in forgivness right? So I ask again, what is the big problem?
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Jim, I am not at all trying to "Pick" on your thoughts. But this one did catch my eye. This has nothign to do with Vick, btu is a thought I have had many times.
At one time I thought as your comments suggests here. Pay for your crime and that is what is expected of you. But the truth is this is not longer true in our society. It is becoming more and more of a trend that once you have committed a crime, there is never a complete "having payed for it" Society ahs decided that at least certain crimes now brand you forever a greater threat than the average person. It has now become acceptable to punish people for things that society thinks they may do rather than only for what they have done. Likewise it is now acceptable to punish people for crimes others have committed that are simular to what they have done. Is a person that has Robbed a bank any more likely to do it again, Even after having been caught, convicted and punished? Are they more likely than anyone else that has just as much opportunity to commit that crime?
Should we require that an annual photo and finger prints be filed for every citizen in case they do commit a crime? That is in fact what is required of anyone that has ever committed a Felony. The fact is that many crimes are never completely atonable in our society.

Society has decided that it is proper to not overlook past transgressions. So in application to situations like Vick. Should he be considered absolved of past behavior? Never.
 
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I watched the 60 Minute interview with him and I do not believe he understands to moral transgressions he committed. He just does not show remorse. I don't believe him.
 
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