Vick signs with eagles

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OKLAHOMAN

OKLAHOMAN

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Shocked! Knew that he would sign with some team but never thought it would be a team like Philly.. Hope they go 0-16. Just my opinion as much as I have always rooted agianst Dallas I have a new worst team.
 
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I too am a little surprised by it. I knew it would be a very well established team like the Patriots or Steelers. So the Eagles makes sense. Makes even more since because Cobb is injured and McNabb is always getting hurt. It's a very low risk, very high reward situation.

I still don't know why people are so agaist him. If you are up to date on the story I think you would sympothize with him and hopefully the change is real. It helps that he has Tony Dungee on his side. I have a TON of respect for him!

It will be interesting no doubt. You can't argue he's a game changer!
 
Zack, lets just agree to disagree on this. BTW I'm up to date on the story and I also respect Dungee but don't have to agree with him.
 
Eagles make perfect sense. Remember they are the ones that started with TO.
Maybe they should sign a few Bengals players, then again they would have to pay their bail.

All jokes aside. What he did was wrong. He did time (not enough) but he should be allowed to have a life after prison, just not for millions as a pro athlete that children can idolize.

I am really surprised that the NFL re-instated him. I thought the new president was supposed to be hardcore.
 
I'd like to put him up against his own weight in my dogs and see how he likes getting chewed on. I've got 2 males and a female that together weigh about 260 Oh wait that would be cruel, (to the dogs) Nah ignorant fools like him are the reason I have them!
 
Don't forget that ex Browns player may soon be playing again. Of course people don't seem to be as angry with him as Vick. I mean after all he just killed a human being while drunk and then spent a month in jail.:eek: I mean Vick did much, much worse things then that.:biggrin::tongue:
 
MLKWoodWorking said:
Eagles make perfect sense. Remember they are the ones that started with TO.
Maybe they should sign a few Bengals players, then again they would have to pay their bail.

All jokes aside. What he did was wrong. He did time (not enough) but he should be allowed to have a life after prison, just not for millions as a pro athlete that children can idolize.

I am really surprised that the NFL re-instated him. I thought the new president was supposed to be hardcore.
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I think people are just jealous about the dollar amount. He broke the law and did the time. He has the right to make a living. How about you? Have you gone over the speed limit? Law breaker. Do you deserve to make what you do? That's different? Well you get the idea. And if your child idolizes him, you have some catching up to do as a parent. And he is on a very very very short lease. One screw up and he's going to be done for life. I'm sure he won't even be allowed to look at the fans wrong.

I know I'm on the short end of the stick on this one but oh well. I'm not even a fan of him, but you have to look at it with more prospective than "I like dogs, and I love my dogs, and anyone who does that doesn't deserve anything good, and his sentence wasn't long enough, and I love my dog."
 
rjwolfe3 said:
Don't forget that ex Browns player may soon be playing again. Of course people don't seem to be as angry with him as Vick. I mean after all he just killed a human being while drunk and then spent a month in jail.:eek: I mean Vick did much, much worse things then that.:biggrin::tongue:
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Agreed. The difference is pre-meditation and the time it lasted. The accident was just that, as wrong and illegal as it was. That's the difference. But I agree. Dog.......Person......Dog.......Person?
 
Wheaties said:
I think people are just jealous about the dollar amount. He broke the law and did the time. He has the right to make a living.
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Yes he did the time and yes he has a right to make a living. Garbage men and burger flippers are in demand.

But a right to play in the NFL?????

If a teacher is convicted of a felony, the teacher loses their license. Even after 'doing the time' they can not go back to teaching.

Their are many other instances where convicted felons may NOT work. Sure they can still earn a living, just at some other job.
 
I agree that a 30 day sentence was crazy but Vick's was permeated he just didn't got to a bar once and come home and accidentally started a dog fighting "business" and while drunk decided to electrocute, drown and kill some that didn't meet his "business" standards, and no I don't believe a dog life is worth more than a humans but Vick's intent was to do what he did and that's the difference that I see. I will not post on this again......



[quote=rjwolfe3;889280]Don't forget that ex Browns player may soon be playing again. Of course people don't seem to be as angry with him as Vick. I mean after all he just killed a human being while drunk and then spent a month in jail.:eek: I mean Vick did much, much worse things then that.:biggrin::tongue:[/quote]
 
mrcook4570 said:
Yes he did the time and yes he has a right to make a living. Garbage men and burger flippers are in demand.

But a right to play in the NFL?????

If a teacher is convicted of a felony, the teacher loses their license. Even after 'doing the time' they can not go back to teaching.

Their are many other instances where convicted felons may NOT work. Sure they can still earn a living, just at some other job.
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True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason), but are not refused from every job. But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly? That's the difference. How rare are you skills. Sorry, but that's the facts. Again, I think people are just jealous. Myself included.
 
Wheaties said:
True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason), but are not refused from every job. But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly? That's the difference. How rare are you skills. Sorry, but that's the facts. Again, I think people are just jealous. Myself included.
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I have my own opinion on whether or not Vick should play...but I will keep that to myself right now. The above quote baffles me. I'm not sure if it is meant as a provocative joke or a serious statement. To be honest I am a little afraid to find out.

I am a die hard football fan, have been for as long as I can remember. But I think, i mean KNOW that they are way overpaid for what they do. As a society it appals me to think that we hold these athletes to such a high degree and pay them more in ONE year than most folks in this country will earn in a lifetime. Maybe it is because as stated above we view teachers as "a dime a dozen" Maybe if we viewed them with a little more respect and encouraged our children to excell in learning instead of running a 4.2 40 we wouldn't have incidents like this topic in the first place.

BTW I am not jeleous, I am frustrated, disgusted and especially dissapointed.
 
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I had no doubts he would play in the NFL again. We have become a nation of Idol Worshipers. Most times the wrong idols but current events indicate maybe people are beginning to get tired of it.
If you oppose his hiring vote against it with your wallet or purse. Stop watching NFL games, send your thoughts to sponsors, don't attend games. The bottom line is a strong vote.
 
Wheaties said:
True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason), but are not refused from every job. But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly? That's the difference. How rare are you skills. Sorry, but that's the facts. Again, I think people are just jealous. Myself included.
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Unfortunately that is part of the problem. Regardless of what he is able to do while carrying a piece of leather, he, like teachers, has the ability to influence the moral compass of a generation of young people. Yet he is put on the pedestal of celebrity worship while a teacher is regarded as dime a dozen.

I don't follow football and I have no problem with anyone earning their market value regardless of the field that they are in. The only reason I commented on this thread is because of the dismay I feel at America's fascination with celebrities.

Excessive wealth has a tendency to amplify a persons character and there are far to many examples of celebrities who fall short in this regard.
 
Wheaties said:
. . . . teachers and the like are a dime a dozen . . .
But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly?
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" . . . teachers and the like are a dime a dozen . . . " how insulting to America's educators.

So a pro athlete can run a 4.2 40 . . . my wife just stayed up until 2:30 this morning writing lesson plans . . . and she left for school at 6 this morning to face 21 first graders. Let's see a pro athlete do that.
 
Wheaties said:
True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason), but are not refused from every job. But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly? That's the difference. How rare are you skills. Sorry, but that's the facts. Again, I think people are just jealous. Myself included.
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So, if OJ had done what he did, in is prime he would have been allowed to continue playing football? After all, he wasn't convicted criminally, only civilly.
 
Guys we've been through this before. The fact is that this is America and once people have paid their debt to society it is their right as an American to pursue whatever avenue of life they choose. Some choose crime over and over again, while others choose other routes.

The simple fact is that being a football player is a JOB just like being a garbage man or a teacher or whatever other profession that has been mentioned here.

Michael Vick has just as much right as every other American has in trying to get paid for what his God given talents are.
 
Wheaties said:
True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen.../quote]

It's attitudes like this that keeps teachers from earning what they truly deserve. I was a public school teacher and LOML still is. Even after 11 years of teaching the same math subjects she puts in 60 - 80 hours/week. And I did the same. Any teacher who does otherwise doesn't do the students or subject justice. Additionally, what other profession(s) has to take an 8 to 12 hour battery of tests to be certified? I can tell you that answer... lawyers, doctors and CPAs jsut to name a few... and they all make sallaries comensurate to that certification. Just not teachers. Why? Because legislators have the same attitude toward teachers that you displayed. Yes, there are bad teachers. I worked with my share. But the good ones would stay if we paid them.

Okay, back to the subject at hand. It doesn't surprise me that Philly picked up Vick. Am I happy about it? No, but everyone deserves a second chance... even Stallworth. Notice I didn't say third or fourth chance.:wink:
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alamocdc said:
Wheaties said:
True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen.../quote]

It's attitudes like this that keeps teachers from earning what they truly deserve. I was a public school teacher and LOML still is. Even after 11 years of teaching the same math subjects she puts in 60 - 80 hours/week. And I did the same. Any teacher who does otherwise doesn't do the students or subject justice. Additionally, what other profession(s) has to take an 8 to 12 hour battery of tests to be certified? I can tell you that answer... lawyers, doctors and CPAs jsut to name a few... and they all make sallaries comensurate to that certification. Just not teachers. Why? Because legislators have the same attitude toward teachers that you displayed. Yes, there are bad teachers. I worked with my share. But the good ones would stay if we paid them.

Okay, back to the subject at hand. It doesn't surprise me that Philly picked up Vick. Am I happy about it? No, but everyone deserves a second chance... even Stallworth. Notice I didn't say third or fourth chance.:wink:
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Ok... I'm sorry if I gave the wrong idea about teachers trying to make a point. I agree that they are FAR more important to society and our kids than ANY athlete. But what I meant was that there are many more teachers in the pond than athletes. That same holds true for police, firefighters, etc. I'm not saying its right that athletes make what they do. I don't think it is. All I was trying to say is that is how America works, like it or not.
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Wheaties said:
True, but teachers and the like are a dime a dozen and felons may have a harder time getting a job (and certain jobs not at all for good reason), but are not refused from every job. But how many people can run a 4.2 40 and make some of the best athletes in the world look silly? That's the difference. How rare are you skills. Sorry, but that's the facts. Again, I think people are just jealous. Myself included.
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Theodore has a PhD in mathematics and was arguably the brightest mind of his time. He was the youngest professor ever at UC-Berkeley (which is one of the top ranked academic institutions in the country). He is smarter than 99.999% of the people in the world. He has the ability to solve the most difficult problems . He can make the other top minds look like idiots. If he wanted a job at NASA, should he be considered? His last name is Kaczynski.

Martina can change a diaper, tie shoes, care for minor scrapes and bruises, prepare bottles, and interact with young children faster and better than anyone else in the world. She is the absolute best in the business. She was convicted of running a child pornography website. She did her time and now seeks employment at a daycare center.

BillyBob is 6'5" 275lbs, can run the 40 in 4.5, can easily bench press 405, is ambidextrous, can place 10 shots inside a quarter at 25 paces with a 45acp with either hand, has a faster reaction time than anyone else in the world, is a security expert, and is cool under pressure. He is the best in the business. He seeks employment as a bodyguard for the President. He has a gambling habit and is $3.75 million in debt. Can he get the job?
 
mrcook4570 said:
Theodore has a PhD in mathematics and was arguably the brightest mind of his time. He was the youngest professor ever at UC-Berkeley (which is one of the top ranked academic institutions in the country). He is smarter than 99.999% of the people in the world. He has the ability to solve the most difficult problems . He can make the other top minds look like idiots. If he wanted a job at NASA, should he be considered? His last name is Kaczynski.

Martina can change a diaper, tie shoes, care for minor scrapes and bruises, prepare bottles, and interact with young children faster and better than anyone else in the world. She is the absolute best in the business. She was convicted of running a child pornography website. She did her time and now seeks employment at a daycare center.

BillyBob is 6'5" 275lbs, can run the 40 in 4.5, can easily bench press 405, is ambidextrous, can place 10 shots inside a quarter at 25 paces with a 45acp with either hand, has a faster reaction time than anyone else in the world, is a security expert, and is cool under pressure. He is the best in the business. He seeks employment as a bodyguard for the President. He has a gambling habit and is $3.75 million in debt. Can he get the job?
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Don't quite get your point by making up unreal situations. If the system were cut and dry, we wouldn't need it.
 
I guess I don't understand this business of allowing our children to use any athlete (or any celebrity) as a role model. Maybe its because my kids aren't into sports. They probably couldn't even name a football player and I watch it often. I am careful about what I put in front of them. For instance, they know who Britney Spears is because they hear her on the radio but I would never allow them to watch a video of her because of how she acts. I personally am not offended by the "Britney Spears" of our world but I would rather my daughter not grow up like her. I do try to surround my kids with positive role models. I just wish other parents would too then we wouldn't have to worry about Michael Vick as a role model.

As a dog lover, I personally hate Vick. But he did his time and should be left alone now. As a non drinker I really hate Stallworth and think he should be in prison for a long time. He knew what he was doing when he decided to drink and drive. That was no accident. People that drink and drive, plan to drink and drive. They don't come to their senses after an car crash and wonder how their blood alcohol content got that high. They choose to drink and then they choose to drive. At the prison I work at, there are a lot of people who did the exact same thing that Stallworth did and they are serving at a minimum of 10 years.

Can someone explain to me why people are more upset with Vick then with Stallworth?

BTW I think teachers are underpaid and are very valuable to society as a whole even though they are some bad apples. But that is the same as any profession.
 
They play football. I played at the collegiate level and the NFL is not the place of high ethical standards that people are painting it out to be. I played with a man just elected to the NFL Hall of Fame, considered the best ever at his position, and I remember him coming back into town after having millions in his pocket and getting caught stealing money out of the tip jar at a bar. He was a thug. There are lots of thugs, with violent backgrounds, raised in situations that are unthinkable. They are who they are. The NFL is a great entertaining sport, and to hold it to the level of a teacher who has a responsibility to teach children may be taking it a bit far. He hits people for a living, that is the type of aggressive behavior that people watch the game for. It is entertainment, that is all, this saying he is not fit to entertain is rather silly when you look at the makeup of the individuals who play this sport today and in the past. I know many great players personally who play in the NFL, most of whom are great people. I also know many who's past and crimes make Vick's seem rather tame in comparison. The commisioner knows that if he held too high a standard, people would stop watching this non-violent game.
 
okay how's this.

The best, most decorated police officer in the country sets up an illegal enterprise and participates in it. He gets caught, tried and convicted of the crime. Should he be allowed to go back to being a cop once he serves his time?

One of the most ruthless and well paid Defense attorney's in the country? Should he be allowed to go back to his job?

How about the CEO of a Fortune 100 company (that isn't taking government handouts),who's business ethics are why he puts so much money in the pockets of his shareholders ?

Fact is there are quite a few professions where it's one strike and you are out. I've long said that Professional athlete SHOULD be one of them for ANY felony.

I'm so tired of hearing about XXX of the Carolina Panthers getting busted for Cocaine, and he's back on the team after serving 5 days in jail. This is one of the reasons I don't follow pro sports, they don't play the game to the best of their abilities for the love of the game.......

I'll also point out that a person who does things like this to animals, has a much higher chance of doing horrible things to people later. Nearly every sociopath started out with torturing animals.
 
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Vick is scum on many levels. Running an extensive and unlawful interstate dogfighting ring that operated over a period of five years, lying about knowledge of the dogfighting, killing animals because they did not perform; the list goes on.

It is for these reasons that Vick should be banished from the NFL. It is clear to me that he does not meet the requirements of the opening sentence in the NFL Personal Conduct Policy (http://www.nflplayers.com/images/fck/NFL Personal Conduct Policy 2008.pdf).

The NFL should have taken the high road and banished him from the game. Instead they (again) show that all they are really interested in is $$$. Vick will draw attendance, so he will be allowed to play, contrary to their own policy.
 
Blind_Squirrel said:
Vick is scum on many levels. Running an extensive and unlawful interstate dogfighting ring that operated over a period of five years, lying about knowledge of the dogfighting, killing animals because they did not perform; the list goes on.

It is for these reasons that Vick should be banished from the NFL. It is clear to me that he does not meet the requirements of the opening sentence in the NFL Personal Conduct Policy (http://www.nflplayers.com/images/fck/NFL Personal Conduct Policy 2008.pdf).

The NFL should have taken the high road and banished him from the game. Instead they (again) show that all they are really interested in is $$$. Vick will draw attendance, so he will be allowed to play, contrary to their own policy.
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Technically, he is not re-instated yet. Goodell said that he will know his fate by week 6. So it's still up in the air. Granted, he will probably be re-instated.
 
I think the group is forgetting one thing: You don't have to be LICENSED per se to play in the NFL. It is an entertainment field (think Robert Downy, Jr, Guns and Roses, Johnny Cash in his earlier years, Aerosmith, Tu-Pac, etc). There are no fitness boards nor background checks as there are for lawyers, doctors, police, teachers, etc. He entered a career that did not REQUIRE him to be of the highest ethical standard and when he EMBARRASSED Arthur Blank and the NFL, they kicked him out. Pete Rose was banned for gambling on baseball. Why? Because they felt such can lead to players throwing games and impacting the sport. What possible effect on football could fighting dogs cause? Most, if not all, of the pro-sports figures are those who went to college not for the education but to play a game. They end up bringing their "posse" of thugs along with them like ticks on a dog. Even if the owners, trainers, coaches, etc can make a dent the posse gets them riled up and they act stupid anyway. (think Big Play Ray of the Ravens, Pacman, TO, etc, etc, etc). And as to felons, if we banned them from pro sports, we wouldn't have baseball, basketball, football, boxing or hockey(I'm not saying that's a bad thing). However, our dollars paid for the entertainment directs the various commissioners in their zeal to institute controls. If no one watches Philly in protest, they'll cut him as the dollar always controls. No entertainer hits rehab until their drug habit impacts the fans thereby directly impacting the $$$.

As a side note, I do not agree that dog fighting leads to sociopathic behavior in this instance. I think he was a sociopath long before he started the BAD NEWZ KENNEL - look at his brother...you can't get away from your raising. The boy threw away his own career because he just couldn't act right (I actually thought he was better than Mike talent-wise).
 
Improving your lot in life is a far cry from introspective analysis and conscientious change from the deficiencies one finds therein. A lot of people come from nothing to something. It is different to take a "bad" person who makes immature and overly emotional decisions based on their own insecurities and make them change into a "good" person who thoughtfully makes their choices. Very few in life truly change who they formed to be during their formative years (process is too painful). I have met some but most backslide because it wasn't real change. Everyone in prison finds the Lord. Very few remember him for long once released. I don't have the answer (wish I did) but I have the observations.
 
Jason, you brought up a good point. Do we say that movie actors and actresses shouldn't star in anymore movies after they commit crimes? They are bigger role models then sports players are. Most kids could name their favorite actor/actress/musician quicker then they could a sports player. Where is the outrage over them? They check in and out of rehab more days then I work in a year. I honestly think that if it had been "insert famous actor here" that was busted fighting dogs then people wouldn't even notice and probably nominate that person for an Oscar the following year.

My point is where is the equality? Why are we holding Michael Vick to a higher standard of decency then every other celebrity at there? If Michael Vick shouldn't play football because of what he did off field then neither should any of the rest of them that have prior felonies. (And that's just the ones that got convicted.) Following that same line of thinking, every time a movie actor or a musician get arrested for a felony then they shouldn't be allowed to play in any more movies or have any more concerts. Wow, I think this world would be a much more boring place if we followed that line of thinking.

But for some reason this only applies to Vick and I have to ask why? What makes him any different then the rest of the scum that pollute our TV's on any given night?
 
No one can know the heart of another person, and although I have questions as to how genuine Vicks transformation really is (would he have made these changes without getting caught?), how about I just say the following:

I wish Michael Vick success in an amount that is relative to how much he is truly repentant for his actions and equal to the good works he performs in the future.

that should cover it...

.
 
rjwolfe3 said:
Jason, you brought up a good point. Do we say that movie actors and actresses shouldn't star in anymore movies after they commit crimes? They are bigger role models then sports players are. Most kids could name their favorite actor/actress/musician quicker then they could a sports player. Where is the outrage over them? They check in and out of rehab more days then I work in a year. I honestly think that if it had been "insert famous actor here" that was busted fighting dogs then people wouldn't even notice and probably nominate that person for an Oscar the following year.

My point is where is the equality? Why are we holding Michael Vick to a higher standard of decency then every other celebrity at there? If Michael Vick shouldn't play football because of what he did off field then neither should any of the rest of them that have prior felonies. (And that's just the ones that got convicted.) Following that same line of thinking, every time a movie actor or a musician get arrested for a felony then they shouldn't be allowed to play in any more movies or have any more concerts. Wow, I think this world would be a much more boring place if we followed that line of thinking.

But for some reason this only applies to Vick and I have to ask why? What makes him any different then the rest of the scum that pollute our TV's on any given night?
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Answer - Yes. When convicted of a felony, they should be unable to make the kind of money that often leads them to decision they made. Actors, Musicians, Athletes, Everyone. If you can't be responsible making $1mil a year, then you shouldnt be making it.
 
I am not a football fan, and I am not current on this story. I do know what you are talking about because I heard it on the news this morning that he was signed with the Eagles. I am even more aware of how Professional Athletics are willing to overlook some of the most horrendous behavior to have players. Have a multi million dollar career regardless of what he has done is not matter of right or no right. that is a decision made by the owners and managers of the teams. That they woudl make the decison to ahve a part fo there team reveals a condition of our society. In short it will be tolerated. the truth is his behavior is not "To much" for our society. Children will admire him beause it is demonstrated that they should by there parents. IT will be demonstrated in that the Eagles will not suffer for this decison, in fact hey will very likely be rewarded with higher ticket sales. many will go to a game just to scream at the guy.
It is also true that teachers are not more important than athletes to our society. or we would be sighning great teachers to multi million dollar contracts. For the large part we will never even know who the great teachers are. it will never make the news when a teacher has preformed at far above average skill levels. And can you imagine a teacher of any caliber ever being a teacher again after having been arrested and spending two years on prison for any crime?
The Physical Universe does not lie, and the truth is a dog fighter will be paid millions and teachers will be ignored. Our society is not perfect and it is not Vick's fault. He has his problems, but it is our society that has the more serious illnesses. if one time, just one time, it cost a team to sign someone like this. it would never happen again.
 
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On Vick, if you don't like it, don't watch. It's as simple as that.

I'm glad that no one has beaten me down over the last 20+ years over some of the mistakes that I made when I was young. To read some of these posts, I guess I'm lucky that I wasn't hauled out back and shot for the protection of all mankind. To make the point a little finer, I did some bad things when I was a teenager and young adult, but I didn't get the memo that I wasn't able to overcome my upbringing. To say that "you can't get away from your raising" is, in my personal experience, false.
 
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