Gary Max
Member
The funny is while some folks make noise others make and SELL pens-----it's really funny if you think about it.
These are about as good as I can do at this time
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dubdrvrkev
Member
Good stuff Lou. I don't think most of us are tool snobs, so it doesn't matter if you used a sharpened screw driver and a rasp to make them, good craftsmanship is just that!
I still use my HF set quite a bit. Works fine for the most part, and I'm not ruining an $80 gouge on the grinder.
I still use my HF set quite a bit. Works fine for the most part, and I'm not ruining an $80 gouge on the grinder.
Daniel
Member
For everyone that has decided I am a "Tool Snob".
Every pen I have ever made, and Sold. has been on a harbor freight lathe, drilled with a Post Tool Drill press and until recently cut with a craftsman band saw. my drill bits are from harbor freight. and all but one of my turning tools are cheapies from Post tool. for those that don't know Post tool was the freight outlet tool store before Harbor Freight.
My post said you cannot make a quality product with inferior materials, including tools. It has been interesting to just how many and for how long, others would ride the assumption that I thought "Cheap tools" are inferior tools.
the quote in context of the conversation was intended to point out that I expect better preformance from higher priced tools. Bushings in my opinion are extravegantly priced and I expect extravegant quality and performance.
Your free to twist it any way you wish. there are always those that will just follow.
Ever try to ride a pack horse for pleasure. you can't get them to go anywhere. they don't know what to do when they don't have a horses butt in front of them to follow.
the original question was just what should we expect for our money when it comes to quality of bushings.
I also compaired the cost of bushings to other small precision machined parts that can be found.
one being alignment pins which are made to ten thousandths of an inch in accuracy. at McMaster Carr they can be purchased in steel for
$10.23 per Pack of 50, these are 1/4 dia. 1-1/2 inch long pins. this is slightly more than 20 cents per piece.
I also mentioned that bushings are priced about the same as a low grade bearing. at Mcmaster Carr they have bearings priced as low as $5.22
Far more comparable to the bushings we use, are the Sleeve Bearings with a 1/4 inch i.d. they are 92 cents each made out of bronze. bronze by the way is a much more expensive material than steel.
now non of the above would make a replacment for pen bushings. but it does show what like priceing is when you get out of the circle of pen kit suppliers. I would compare the quality of a bushing to that of a standard nut from home depot as far as tolerances in machining and material are concerned. they can be bought for a few cents.$3.07 per pack of 100.
Every pen I have ever made, and Sold. has been on a harbor freight lathe, drilled with a Post Tool Drill press and until recently cut with a craftsman band saw. my drill bits are from harbor freight. and all but one of my turning tools are cheapies from Post tool. for those that don't know Post tool was the freight outlet tool store before Harbor Freight.
My post said you cannot make a quality product with inferior materials, including tools. It has been interesting to just how many and for how long, others would ride the assumption that I thought "Cheap tools" are inferior tools.
the quote in context of the conversation was intended to point out that I expect better preformance from higher priced tools. Bushings in my opinion are extravegantly priced and I expect extravegant quality and performance.
Your free to twist it any way you wish. there are always those that will just follow.
Ever try to ride a pack horse for pleasure. you can't get them to go anywhere. they don't know what to do when they don't have a horses butt in front of them to follow.
the original question was just what should we expect for our money when it comes to quality of bushings.
I also compaired the cost of bushings to other small precision machined parts that can be found.
one being alignment pins which are made to ten thousandths of an inch in accuracy. at McMaster Carr they can be purchased in steel for
$10.23 per Pack of 50, these are 1/4 dia. 1-1/2 inch long pins. this is slightly more than 20 cents per piece.
I also mentioned that bushings are priced about the same as a low grade bearing. at Mcmaster Carr they have bearings priced as low as $5.22
Far more comparable to the bushings we use, are the Sleeve Bearings with a 1/4 inch i.d. they are 92 cents each made out of bronze. bronze by the way is a much more expensive material than steel.
now non of the above would make a replacment for pen bushings. but it does show what like priceing is when you get out of the circle of pen kit suppliers. I would compare the quality of a bushing to that of a standard nut from home depot as far as tolerances in machining and material are concerned. they can be bought for a few cents.$3.07 per pack of 100.
wayneis
Member
Hmmm, I thought that I had read all the posts but I must be mistaken because I don't remember seeing Daniels name refered to anywhere. Your little joke at the end may have been funny if you had spelled your punch line correctly.
Wayne
Wayne
Daniel
Member
It's my quote that's getting pasted all over this thread.
dubdrvrkev
Member
Daniel I hope you don't think my post was directed at you. I never saw the post that was quoted in the start of the thread. I was using the term "tool snob" in a general sense, no way directed at anyone particular. Just for the record, I said that most of us aren't tool snobs.
I'm sorry if you thought that was directed at you.
I'm sorry if you thought that was directed at you.
Daniel
Member
Kevin,
and everyone else. I do not take most of the comments as directed at me. In fact it was fairly apparent to me that most of those that replied to this thread had no idea what quote was involved. Until this page linked it directly to my comment.
I feel I have been miss quoted for personal reasons. other than one jab at that person. my post is intended to correct the thinking that I said cheap tools are inferior. a 92 cent alignment pen is far cheaper than pen bushings and is far higher quality.
i apologize for the jab as it was uncalled for and could be taken as an insult to everyone that has posted to this thread. not my intention.
and everyone else. I do not take most of the comments as directed at me. In fact it was fairly apparent to me that most of those that replied to this thread had no idea what quote was involved. Until this page linked it directly to my comment.
I feel I have been miss quoted for personal reasons. other than one jab at that person. my post is intended to correct the thinking that I said cheap tools are inferior. a 92 cent alignment pen is far cheaper than pen bushings and is far higher quality.
i apologize for the jab as it was uncalled for and could be taken as an insult to everyone that has posted to this thread. not my intention.
wayneis
Member
Daniel I see that you ran spell check. Nice going.
As far as bushings go, yes it would be nice to always get perfect tolerances and low cost BUT there is a huge difference that you are ignoring. Where as the Companies that make nuts and the parts that you mention make and sell millions the kit suppliers sell a few thousand, if they are lucky. That makes a big difference. I also imagine that it would be nice to test every bushing and kit that comes in the door but I can also see where time and money and the fact the we the turners are always yelling to hurry up and get us the stuff must make it very difficult for them. In the past I have bought from all three Companies that make and sell pen kits and every one has at one time or another had a problem that I have encountered, in every case where I have found a problem that Company has made good at no cost to me. I've had both CSUSA and Berea send me new bushings and I've had PSI send me new tubes but the point is they take steps to get what we want, get to us as fast as they can and if there is a problem they so far have fixed it as fast as possible.
I'm done, it was not my intention to hyjack Lou's thread so thats the last word from me.
Wayne
As far as bushings go, yes it would be nice to always get perfect tolerances and low cost BUT there is a huge difference that you are ignoring. Where as the Companies that make nuts and the parts that you mention make and sell millions the kit suppliers sell a few thousand, if they are lucky. That makes a big difference. I also imagine that it would be nice to test every bushing and kit that comes in the door but I can also see where time and money and the fact the we the turners are always yelling to hurry up and get us the stuff must make it very difficult for them. In the past I have bought from all three Companies that make and sell pen kits and every one has at one time or another had a problem that I have encountered, in every case where I have found a problem that Company has made good at no cost to me. I've had both CSUSA and Berea send me new bushings and I've had PSI send me new tubes but the point is they take steps to get what we want, get to us as fast as they can and if there is a problem they so far have fixed it as fast as possible.
I'm done, it was not my intention to hyjack Lou's thread so thats the last word from me.
Wayne
Paul in OKC
Member
I agree here. My first bunch of pens were turned on an 8" Delta drill press!! I made a thing to hold the end of the mandrel and attached it to the table, layed the thing on its side and used a piece of angle iron clamped to the table for a tool rest. First tool was a file ground to sort of a one sided skew[
]
Randy_
Member
Mikey
Member
Geez, all this conversation over two crappy looking pens.
J/K[][] They look really nice and I can't wait to make the two that I am getting. Regarding the quote thing, One can make a decent product out of inferior tools, but it is 200% harder and the likelyhood for mistakes is 200% higher. Also, as said, cheap isn't a good measure when it comes to quality. HF has it's bombs and golden eggs. (my HF drill bits keep walking in one of the sizes I need/use[!] ) WTH is this arguement happening anyway?
BTW, anyone know who may sell individual blanks of the "Ancient Wood"? I know you can buy a $50 pack, but it may be a bit more than I need.
J/K[
][] They look really nice and I can't wait to make the two that I am getting. Regarding the quote thing, One can make a decent product out of inferior tools, but it is 200% harder and the likelyhood for mistakes is 200% higher. Also, as said, cheap isn't a good measure when it comes to quality. HF has it's bombs and golden eggs. (my HF drill bits keep walking in one of the sizes I need/use[!] ) WTH is this arguement happening anyway?BTW, anyone know who may sell individual blanks of the "Ancient Wood"? I know you can buy a $50 pack, but it may be a bit more than I need.
Well, Mikey, someone has to provoke folks once in awhile in order to make sure that no one has lapsed, unnoticed, into a coma. I figured it might as well be me. [8D]
wayneis
Member
Mikey any idiot can figure out what the initials that you are and how you mean them and I for one DO NOT apprieciate your language. We have kids that frequent our site and also a Pastor and I doubt that they like it either, I also believe that it is against one of the few rules that we have.
Wayne
Wayne
fritzmccorkle
Member
gee Lou. i wish i'd known you needed better tools. i'd have gotten you some sorby for your birthday. oh well....i guess next year.
alamocdc
Member
Fritz, it's not nice to tease Lou like that. []
]angboy
Member
Gosh Fritz, that would have been a nice b'day present, probably better than anything else he may have gotten around that time...
But since you missed his b'day, keep saving your money- for my next birthday!
Mikey
Member
You are right Wayne. I apologize and have changed the post. FWIW, the H stands for "Heck" now.
Still wonder why nobody seems to be offended at the 3 pages of arguements that are going on because of quoting out of context and reading something between the lines that just isn't there.[?]
Still wonder why nobody seems to be offended at the 3 pages of arguements that are going on because of quoting out of context and reading something between the lines that just isn't there.[?]
fritzmccorkle
Member
will do ang. i think you already have some sorby so i may have to go oneway or supernova on you though.
penhead
Local Chapter Leader
Did you say Oneway []
Ya know I just had a birthday but you could get a head start on the next one [][}]
]Ya know I just had a birthday but you could get a head start on the next one [
][}]
M
Mudder
Guest
Originally posted by penhead
<br />Did you say Oneway [
Ya know I just had a birthday but you could get a head start on the next one [
HEY!
Don't forget my birthday's in July!
wayneis
Member
Sorby, hmm that sounds like a good southern Bourbon.
Wayne
Wayne
Spike
Member
gee wiz, you guys stop your bickering. Your like a bunch of old ladies. JK[].
the pens are the most important thing here. great job.
].the pens are the most important thing here. great job.
fritzmccorkle
Member
ok, i'll see how you guys do on my birthday and then maybe you'll make my sorby/oneway/nova list. hahaha[]
]
wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Fritz, you may be lucky to get sorbet on your birthday! []
]fritzmccorkle
Member
are you saying i havn't been good? gee, i can get this treatment at home. hahahah[]
]angboy
Member
Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />Fritz, you may be lucky to get sorbet on your birthday! [
Hey William, you're a poet- did ya know it? [
]For everyone- if the tools/materials are being a handicap in any way, just think what stu"pen"dous pens Lou could make with all these nice tools that he should now be getting for his next birthday!
wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Thanks Angela. I was concentrating on spelling sorbet correctly and didn't even notice my iambic inclinations.
[8D]
[8D]
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