The "Other" Snake Skin - CRACKED!!!!!

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Griz,

As you have noted, snakewood is a beautiful pen.

My recollection was it was tricky to turn-you will have NO problem with your skew skills, but at that time, I had a heck of a time-but ultimately got the second blank to work (paid $10 each, then). When it cracked (several weeks later), I was really crushed-my masterpiece destroyed by nature-dirty pool.

Hope you find a good answer-I would really like to have a snakewood pen of my own, it is gorgeous and gets LOTS of comments!!

Best of luck!!!
 
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Well boys and girls... It CRACKED!

[:D]

I knew it would. Too many people talking about it not to. [;)] Right on the bottom portion of the cap near the center band. Since I decided to keep it for myself, I am not too worried about it. I think that when I get some time, I will strip the parts off of the cap and fix it. I should be able to make it invisible.

Looking at the pen closely, there is only the one crack. Snakewood though when looked at extremely close has a very whispy grain. Loose in some spots. Imagine dry bambo, or celery. I noticed when I was turning it that it was very similiar to Ebony as far as the heat characteristics causing fine fissures. Especially when sanding the blank flush to the tubes. More open grain than ebony though.

Anyway, I will let you all know how the repair and refinish goes. I have too many other pens to turn right now to mess with it for a few days.

If nothing else, I got a great front page photo for my website out of it...Since I took the photo before it cracked [:)].

Cheers,

Fangar
 
Bummer to hear about that! At least it doesn't sound like it will be too much of a pain to fix though. Perhaps its a good thing you can't get to it right away, just in case it decides to "open up" a little more, it will be less likely to do so in the future, after you fix it.
 
I made a snakewood pen a year ago and still haven't had it crack. Maybe I was lucky. One thing I did was drill the hole out slowly and also added a little bit of water to the hole to keep the drill bit cool. I also took breaks while drilling to let the drill bit cool down. Other than that, I turned it at a low speed and it still exists in good shape.

Mike
 
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Griz,

Have you turned snakewood successfully? Have you considered having it stabilized?

I only turned one pen, years ago before stabilizing had entered penmaking, when it cracked I was really crushed-haven't turned it since. BUT, would like to make a pen that looks like that if it were stabilized.
Click to expand...

Ed,
Not to hijack your question to Griz, but Rich K. on the Yahoo forum wrote a post on his attempts to have snakewood stabilized. His results were unsuccessful as I remember. Perhaps Rich will see this thread and comment.
 
I am thinking (after a conversation with Tony) that after drilling it slow and cool and turning softly, I may just relieve the tubes a bit so that the parts do not press fit in place, but have a nice slide fit that needs a drop of CA to lock in place...
I figure that by not press fitting the parts I will eliminate any excessive pressure on the inside of the blank that might cause it to crack...
Talking to Tony can be a good thing...
 
Please DO hijack my question-I would love to find a way to make snakeskin survive. ANY experience is gratefully accepted.
 
There were some post on yahoo penturners group maybe a year and a half ago about snakewood and someone said they boil it first and that helps. Tried a search there but no luck.
 
Tom, please keep us informed of your progress!

James, I'm sorry to hear about the crack - if it will make you feel any better, you can send the pen to me and I'll take GOOD care of it 'till you have time to fix the crack. I'll E-mail you my address.
 
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Please DO hijack my question-I would love to find a way to make snakeskin survive. ANY experience is gratefully accepted.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it has been suggested before, but if the wood could be turned down below the bushings, couldn't it then be cast in clear PR, just like the snake skin pens? [?][?]
 
Originally posted by timdaleiden
[br I don't know if it has been suggested before, but if the wood could be turned down below the bushings, couldn't it then be cast in clear PR, just like the snake skin pens? [?][?]
Click to expand...

IMHO, that would just eliminate the reason for making the pen out of the wood in the first place...
 
I have one that I want to tackle as well. Has anyone drilled, let set for a few weeks, tubed and glued, set for a few weeks, turned to near final dimensions, let set for a few weeks then finish off? Would that help?

I do think the idea of reaming out the tubes a little before press fitting might be a great idea based on some cracks I created on a couple of olypmia kits recently.
 
Here is El Grande Streamline I did in snakewood. It has been around for over a year and has not cracked. It is tubless on the body and a tube in the cap. I think leaving as much meat on the pen helps, I also think leaving a tube out may help. That is just speculation, as my tubeless ones have not cracked. Also, they have not left the office and under the same temp all day. I still think it is just a crap shoot using this wood. That being said, a split snakewood pen is sure alot prettier than many other wood pens that have no cracks. [:p]
I think the cracking should not deter someone from trying to make at least one snakewood pen. Then you can form your own opinion about this gorgous unfriendly wood.



2005719155617_DSC00902.jpg
<br />
 
Okay Anthony, you said in your post to leave "as much meat on the pen helps." I just put one of my snakewood blanks in meat. How long should I leave the snakewood in the meat? Does it matter the kind of meat? I used a nice, juicey filet mignon.[:)]
Mike
 
Snake meat is good. I've had rattler before when my uncle used to take me out to the southern Idaho lava flows to hunt them.

Anthony, with as many issues snakewood seems to have with cracking it seems like a risky pen to do tubeless. How do you accomplish yours? Do you use a tap set and cut the threads in the wood? If so, where did you get the tap or is it a standard size?
 
Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Griz,

Have you turned snakewood successfully? Have you considered having it stabilized?

I only turned one pen, years ago before stabilizing had entered penmaking, when it cracked I was really crushed-haven't turned it since. BUT, would like to make a pen that looks like that if it were stabilized.
Click to expand...

Ed,
Not to hijack your question to Griz, but Rich K. on the Yahoo forum wrote a post on his attempts to have snakewood stabilized. His results were unsuccessful as I remember. Perhaps Rich will see this thread and comment.
Click to expand...

I had sent some Snakewood to Steve White of River Ridge Products. Steve had let me know although the wood went through the whole process he did not see any gain in weight, i.e. there is no resin that permeated into the wood. Ergo, Snakewood cannot be stabilized. The three pens I made from it all cracked within weeks.
 
Originally posted by Old Griz
<br />
Originally posted by timdaleiden
[br I don't know if it has been suggested before, but if the wood could be turned down below the bushings, couldn't it then be cast in clear PR, just like the snake skin pens? [?][?]
Click to expand...

IMHO, that would just eliminate the reason for making the pen out of the wood in the first place...
Click to expand...

Griz, what am I missing?
Tim's suggestion makes perfect sense.
Especialy since you turn so many stabilized pens from BB.
Granted it would not be the same as a stabilized blank but it would be more like wood than a wood blank impregnated with plastic and dye.
(In my never humble but may be missing something opinion)
 
Originally posted by cteaglesc
<br />
Originally posted by Old Griz
<br />
Originally posted by timdaleiden
[br I don't know if it has been suggested before, but if the wood could be turned down below the bushings, couldn't it then be cast in clear PR, just like the snake skin pens? [?][?]
Click to expand...

IMHO, that would just eliminate the reason for making the pen out of the wood in the first place...
Click to expand...

Griz, what am I missing?
Tim's suggestion makes perfect sense.
Especialy since you turn so many stabilized pens from BB.
Granted it would not be the same as a stabilized blank but it would be more like wood than a wood blank impregnated with plastic and dye.
(In my never humble but may be missing something opinion)
Click to expand...

Or if you use another plastic...like CA glue???

Sometimes after following some of these threads, I just walk away scratching my head. It is OK to encase wood in CA plastic, polyurethane, lacquers, but not okay to have the wood stabilized professionally, and whatever you do...don't encase wood in PR plastic...I just don't get where some of these opinions come from. It is just odd the way some people rationalize their behaviors and beliefs. If any wood is not properly sealed in some way, it will eventually crack. I thought I made a valid suggestion...oh well, back to the drawing board.
 
Not sure if you can tell from the photos, but my pen has quite a nice thick CA finish. The crack is all the way through the CA and into the wood. Only on the cap, and now in two places. I will likely still try the repair. If I fail, then I will keep the body in snakewood as it has yet to crack and add another contrasting wood for the top. I feel a "Frakenpen" coming on!

Good ideas added by all. Thanks

James
 
Originally posted by timdaleiden
<br />
Originally posted by cteaglesc
<br />
Originally posted by Old Griz
<br />
Originally posted by timdaleiden
[br I don't know if it has been suggested before, but if the wood could be turned down below the bushings, couldn't it then be cast in clear PR, just like the snake skin pens? [?][?]
Click to expand...

IMHO, that would just eliminate the reason for making the pen out of the wood in the first place...
Click to expand...

Griz, what am I missing?
Tim's suggestion makes perfect sense.
Especialy since you turn so many stabilized pens from BB.
Granted it would not be the same as a stabilized blank but it would be more like wood than a wood blank impregnated with plastic and dye.
(In my never humble but may be missing something opinion)
Click to expand...

Or if you use another plastic...like CA glue???

Sometimes after following some of these threads, I just walk away scratching my head. It is OK to encase wood in CA plastic, polyurethane, lacquers, but not okay to have the wood stabilized professionally, and whatever you do...don't encase wood in PR plastic...I just don't get where some of these opinions come from. It is just odd the way some people rationalize their behaviors and beliefs. If any wood is not properly sealed in some way, it will eventually crack. I thought I made a valid suggestion...oh well, back to the drawing board.
Click to expand...

From what I have read,it is next to impossible to commercially stabilize snakewood.Your suggestion Tim unless I misunderstood your post was to turn the pen completely and under-size it at or near the bushings.Cast both halves in resin,This would not be the same as wrapping a veneer around a tube and then casting in resin.
I was talking to Lou last night and mentioned this idea before I read your post.
If I read your post correctly your suggestion is to use the resin as a finish and not the main body of the pen.
I am in agreement with you on this one.
I use a lot of CA on my pens, especially on multiple glue ups.U have even considered having my lams stabilized, but I use a mixture of different adhesives on each pen.Yellow glue serves a purpose but so does CA.
One thing I have noticed in CA finished(sealed) pens is there is not the same "wood" feel.
That is not good or bad,in todays world with man made materials so prevalent many are accustomed to that feeling.There are those that want a wood pen to feel like a wood pen with a warmer feeling.
In the case of the snakewood pen if the appearance is relished and one possible remedy to save it from cracking is to cast it in resin then I am with you.I may even try it on some other things I am contemplating.I would cast a finished pen in resin to aid in finishing to get an appearance I want and live with the feel.
It is like someone who likes the look of a tiles floor but doesn't want cold feet.
Vinyl is an alternative much like your suggestion to cast in resin to prohibit the cracking of the wood.
 
Actually Eagle, I don't turn that many stabilized blanks for pens... I do use stabilized stopper blanks a lot... virtually all my blanks are natural wood..the crew from Grizfest can attest to that ... I had a few professionally done, but they absolutley needed it...
Virtually every freebie I got from BillB was desert ironwood...
 
Sometimes after following some of these threads, I just walk away scratching my head. It is OK to encase wood in CA plastic, polyurethane, lacquers, but not okay to have the wood stabilized professionally, and whatever you do...don't encase wood in PR plastic...I just don't get where some of these opinions come from. It is just odd the way some people rationalize their behaviors and beliefs. If any wood is not properly sealed in some way, it will eventually crack. I thought I made a valid suggestion...oh well, back to the drawing board.
Click to expand...
First of all I said that was <b>my opinion</b> as far as casting the blank in PR.
<b>I did not say you were wrong.. </b>
I just stated my opinion as you stated your... I rationalize my behaivior and beliefs because it was <b>MY OPINION</b>, no where did I state that you did not a right to your opinion or optional way of doing that type of wood. I never said you did not have a valid option... but from what I am reading here only your opinions count... look at my thread again it starts <b><b>IMHO</b>.. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION</b>...
 
Originally posted by Old Griz
First of all I said that was <b>my opinion</b> as far as casting the blank in PR.
<b>I did not say you were wrong.. </b>
I just stated my opinion as you stated your... I rationalize my behaivior and beliefs because it was <b>MY OPINION</b>, no where did I state that you did not a right to your opinion or optional way of doing that type of wood. I never said you did not have a valid option... but from what I am reading here only your opinions count... look at my thread again it starts <b><b>IMHO</b>.. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION</b>...
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to start a fight. I guess some of these subtle distinctions seem odd to me. We all finish our pens with a "thin to thick" layer of plastic. Even friction polish leaves a thin layer of Shellac, or Lacquer. That means they have a plastic material over the wood. The only nonplastic finishes are waxes, and they must be rewaxed frequently, or if handled enough, skin oils replace the waxes. Again, I wasn't trying to start a fight; I just don't understand where some of these objections come from, including the ones about professionally stabilized wood.
 
Originally posted by timdaleiden
<br />
Originally posted by Old Griz
First of all I said that was <b>my opinion</b> as far as casting the blank in PR.
<b>I did not say you were wrong.. </b>
I just stated my opinion as you stated your... I rationalize my behaivior and beliefs because it was <b>MY OPINION</b>, no where did I state that you did not a right to your opinion or optional way of doing that type of wood. I never said you did not have a valid option... but from what I am reading here only your opinions count... look at my thread again it starts <b><b>IMHO</b>.. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION</b>...
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to start a fight. I guess some of these subtle distinctions seem odd to me. We all finish our pens with a "thin to thick" layer of plastic. Even friction polish leaves a thin layer of Shellac, or Lacquer. That means they have a plastic material over the wood. The only nonplastic finishes are waxes, and they must be rewaxed frequently, or if handled enough, skin oils replace the waxes. Again, I wasn't trying to start a fight; I just don't understand where some of these objections come from, including the ones about professionally stabilized wood.
Click to expand...

I too am not trying to start a "fight" but I will note that when I have turned a commercially stabilized" "wood" that which comes off the blank has the properies and smell of plastic rather than wood.Smell and "shavings"
There are somethings I turn that cannot be turned unless they are stabilized in some way.Cloth, newspapers, string, rope etc.
These items were not meant to be "turned" in their natural state.That is what makes them unique, or to use another wphrase an attempt to make a "spectaular pen"You know something diffferent and innovative"?
Another thing I have noted is a stabilized item does not have the feel of natural wood in my opinion.(not humble and didn't intend it to be)Once a pen is finished in CA is also has that property and it is entirely different than a pen finished with lacquer or shelac,
 
Weighing in, in a slightly different vein.

My first corncobs were still "textured" after applying several coats of CA. It was suggested on this forum, I believe, that they be "smooth" to the touch, i. e. ADD more CA. That did give a preferable tactile sensation to the pen-but it did NOT feel like a corncob.

I certainly agree that the beauty of snakeskin (wood) is worth some compromises. If I have to choose between cracking and fortifying with plastic, I would choose the latter. One excellent justification being, the customer who buys the pen knows what he is getting when I sell it to him. He will not be disappointed by the condition of the pen changing (cracking). So, if it is stabilized and does not feel like wood-SO BE IT.

Actually, Griz, you put great time and effort into making your pens differ from "natural" wood. They have a customer-pleasing sheen and smoothness that is truly "unnatural", but very desirable. We all marvel at your numerous techniques and their results. Approach this issue with an open-mind and I believe you may decide there is some merit to trying the PR approach. I would, however, recommend trying it on a cheap blank of oak first. (Disappointment comes in many sizes, lets start with SMALL if it doesn't work).

Come September, if no one has tried it, Dawn & I will. If it works, I'll be selling some of the most beautiful pens available anywhere. And, if I know it won't crack, we are once again approaching that illusive $200 pen.

NO OFFENSE MEANT TO ANYONE, HOPE THIS IS WORDED WELL ENOUGH TO REFLECT MY RESPECT FOR EACH OF YOU!!!
 
Ed, thanks for the kind words....
I tend to agree that the customer wants the pen to have a high gloss glassy look that is definately not a natural woody feel or look .. and since we need to please the customer that is what we do... and your right, I do take a good amount of time on my finish to accomplish exactly that...
My personal pens have a more natural look, not as deep a finish, but still smooth and glossy...

As I think about encasing the snakewood in a PR shell, I do see one problem that may or may not occur... you will need to turn the blank down past the bushing to be able to get enough PR on the blank to seal it.. now you will also need to have sanded the snakewood to get a real smooth finish before putting in PR otherwise the sanding marks will be exagerated by the magnifying effect of the PR...
Here comes the rub... since there is not a whole lot of meat left on the blank in a Jr Gent/Baron style pen, you may be getting to a point where cracking is a whole lot more likely to happen because of the thinness of the blank at that point... Now I am not saying this technique will not work and I would love to see if someone can get it too work... in fact the more I think about it, the more I see the merit in the concept, especially since the amount of PR would be not much thicker than a heavy CA finish...
I don't do any casting and doubt I will in the near future... I really look forward to seeing the results of your experiments Ed, but instead of something like oak, I think you might want to experiment on a wood known to crack over time.. all you would need to do is one tube and just let it lay around...
 
Thanks Griz,
I had considered the "thinness" and will work diligently with a micrometer before this experiment is attempted.

This is, however, consistent with some other things we want to try with PR casting, so it should be fun.

Good point about the wood known to crack. Just happened to be turning bottle stoppers (thanks, Griz, Dawn bought a bunch of mechanisms for me to turn after seeing your postings,GRRRRrrrrrr! They didn't sell when I tried before, but........GRRRRrrrrr) out of ebony, so the stick is out and I can start the process with that.
 
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Just happened to be turning bottle stoppers (thanks, Griz, Dawn bought a bunch of mechanisms for me to turn after seeing your postings,GRRRRrrrrrr! They didn't sell when I tried before, but........GRRRRrrrrr) out of ebony, so the stick is out and I can start the process with that.
Click to expand...

And your problem here is... [}:)][:eek:)]
Hey have fun with them and try making some cabochons from left over pen material.. wood, acrylic, whatever gives a nice contrast...
 
Griz,

That's the glass connection. There will be "something" on top, as soon as the kiln is finished. (The suspense killing you?????[}:)][}:)][}:)]maybe not!)
 
I picked up a new set of punches today and got the Baron apart without further damage. I put the snakewood cap back on the lathe. I think it is going to be more trouble than it is worth. There are cracks devoloping everywhere on the cap. Not on the body though. I think I will make the cap out fo a contrasting wood. Not sure what yet.

James
 
Fangar,

This is undoubtedly one of the best pen I've seen. My wife and I feel so sorry that it cracked. [V]

Thanks to you...my wife is now asking me to make her one made of highly figured snakewood. I am hunting now on eBay [:D]
 
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Originally posted by Dario
<br />Fangar,

This is undoubtedly one of the best pen I've seen. My wife and I feel so sorry that it cracked. [V]

Thanks to you...my wife is now asking me to make her one made of highly figured snakewood. I am hunting now on eBay [:D]
Click to expand...

Dario,

Thanks. I would highly recommend Arizona Silhouette too. Really awesome blanks.

James
 
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