Thanks Mudder

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GaryMGg

GaryMGg

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Since you closed down t-p-w-u and I don't have your email addy, this is one place I think you'll see this.
I want to thank you for the work you did while that forum was up and active. I know it's lots of work and it was a fun other place to hang out. I, for one, will miss it.
I simply want to show my appreciation for your efforts.
Regards,
Gary
 
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What ?? I just made my secound post there the other day.
I hope it wasn't my fault. [V] I was about to have a thing for the PR Princess. [:D]
 
Originally posted by GaryMGg
<br />Since you closed down t-p-w-u and I don't have your email addy, this is one place I think you'll see this.
I want to thank you for the work you did while that forum was up and active. I know it's lots of work and it was a fun other place to hang out. I, for one, will miss it.
I simply want to show my appreciation for your efforts.
Regards,
Gary
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I'll second that
 
Yeah,

If Anthony would have been there, Cav & I could have corrected HIS mistakes and avoided our big BLOWUPS!!![:0][:0][:0][:0]

(Yes, this IS a JOKE for those who are NOT sure!)
 
I just got in from the road and saw this. I for one will definitely miss Scott's site. I have no idea what caused the closing of the site. I will even forgo the opportunity to blame it on Anthony and/or Ed.
 
Anthony,

PR Princess isn't a member here, but she says you taught her everything she knows!! (except spelling!!)[:0][:0][:0][;)][;)]

She also wishes "Mudder" all the best!! You have no idea how many special creations she has made that were meant to "bring spice to TPWUs"!!
 
I agree with all above. I will miss the site. Thank you Scott for the effort and I'm sorry it didn't work out for you, and us. I was throughly enjoying myself.
 
Originally posted by GaryMGg
<br />Since you closed down t-p-w-u and I don't have your email addy, this is one place I think you'll see this.
I want to thank you for the work you did while that forum was up and active. I know it's lots of work and it was a fun other place to hang out. I, for one, will miss it.
I simply want to show my appreciation for your efforts.
Regards,
Gary
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Ditto.

I am sorry for not being active there...but the 6 other forums I visit keep me busy enough.

Re: Eagle, not here but he just posted another amazing pen made from a blank only Eagle can make (that I know).
 
Originally posted by GaryMGg
<br />I saw those. Simply amazing craftsmanship. When we see that, we see inside the mind of a genius! [;)]

Gary
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Funny but when ever I hear "mind of a genius" all I can think of is some kind of Rube Goldberg machine.
 
Thank you everyone for the words of support.


I started the site because I thought that a different stlye of management and administration philosophy could succeed.

It failed; and full responsibility for it's failure rests with me, and me alone. The last 100 days has taught me many valuable lessons. I've made quite a few new friends, lost a couple of old friends, and have seen irreparable harm come to another friendship. The promise that I made to myself was that if it did not work as I had envisioned I would shut it down before any harm could be done to the penturning community in general. I'm quite sure that Jeff could verify this statement as I told him this via email when I first started my site.


The IAP was the first penturning site that I discovered when I began turning pens and this will always be a special place for me. As with all communities there will be some that you like and find that you get along quite well with, and there will be others that you dislike and find yourself arguing with but that happens in all communities. We should all remember why we come here and try not to make it; or take it personally.

At first I had thought of asking Jeff to delete my account or to change my name to something that would not be as recognizable but I realized that it would not change anything. Instead I have decided to handle it a different way.

I will not run.
I will not hide.
And I'm not going to go away, so you're stuck with me [:p]


I never wanted the business on my site to spill over into other sites and I tried to keep the business of other sites out of mine. I hope that this thread will remain positive.

My only intent for posting in this thread is to thank those who have wished me well and to hopefully bring closure to this event. Now it is time for me to refocus my efforts on penmaking and to help the community wherever I can.


Thank you,

Scott Hettel
 
Scott, never joined your site but did frequent it because I "knew" so many of the members. I don't know what caused you to close it down but my point is, I'm glad we're stuck with you!
 
Scott,

I didn't post a lot on your site, but I was a regular visitor. I wouldn't call it a failure. There was a good exchange of ideas, good company and some great looking pens.

I thought you did a great job running it and I will miss it.

jeff
 
Just curious...

Was Scott's site better in some way or just "different" ?? I can understand the appeal of somewhere new and different, but was there some fundamental difference between there and here? jeffj12 said "There was a good exchange of ideas, good company and some great looking pens." and isn't that exactly what we have here?

We're always trying to improve this place, and if there is some good that can come out of Scott's site closing down, let's find it and apply it here.
 
Jeff, Scotts sight was very much like this one, just a little different atmosphere. Kind of like a bunch of good buddies who are also co workers. At work they enjoy themselves have a good time, exchange ideas, swap tall tales etc. You get the picture. After work some of them gather for a few drinks, things loosen up a little jokes flow more freely and conversation tends to take a different direction. Scotts sight was kind of like the IAP after the second scotch. The posters seemed more willing to loosen their neck ties and joke around with the smaller group. I would imagine it was much like the early days of the IAP. Thanks to you both.
 
I think Phil got it pretty much correct. There seemed to be an atmosphere of foolishness, for lack of a better term, that existed there. Topics almost always got hijacked by goofy remarks aimed at one person or another, usually Ed and Cav, but it was all in fun and I believe everyone knew that. It was fun and enjoyable while it lasted and I miss it.
 
Originally posted by jeff
<br />Just curious...
Was Scott's site better in some way or just "different" ??...
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Other than the fun mentioned above, the one thing I found at TPWU that's lacking everywhere else I visit is the <b>serious criticism</b> of a piece of work.
SOYP! and SYS are fine for admiration but there's no critical feedback -- it's not that it isn't permitted, more like it's just socially impermissible.

I can understand a lot of people not wanting a stranger to say anything bad about their work, but having a place where IF it's asked for it'll be received is valuable, imho.

Before I was involved here as a pen maker, there was a thread regarding a forum for critiquing other's work when asked.
In my mind, so long as people say what they think without malice it would be a valuable discussion arena. IF I'm going to grow my skills to where I want to go, it'll require that someone is willing to say, "In my opinion, here's what's wrong with this piece of work: ..."

My $.02,
Gary
 
Gary,
Unfortunately, this is a horse that has been flogged repeatedly and ground into the dust. Anyone posting in SOYP can ask for a critique of their work. It's then up to those viewing the work to actually provide some constructive feedback. But, critiquing a pen from a photo is not easy, in fact it is extremely difficult, even from the best of photos. If the photo isn't first rate, how can anyone critique it?
 
Gary,

In a forum this size (IAP), that's dangerous. Thin-skins can be punctured and you don't know it until AFTER it happens.

FWIW
 
I went to that site to see the latest works from Eagle, since he isn't here anymore. That is also why I went to TPS, until he was banned from that site as well.
 
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />...In a forum this size (IAP), that's dangerous. Thin-skins can be punctured and you don't know it until AFTER it happens....
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Yep, that's a sentence I edited out of my preview 'cause it seemed to me to be redundant. I originally thought to write: having a place where IF it's asked for it'll be received is valuable, imho. However, some folks are thin-skinned and that could be problematic.

I know it's been flogged but it's the ONE THING that I really see missing in an online forum. That's why I thought it should be a place where negative comments are only made when a poster requests it.

I guess I'll keep hounding y'all in private for serious criticism. I've got a ways to go before I feel like I'm running with pen making rather than crawling and walking. [;)]
 
Jeff, there is nothing wrong with this site. I love it here. When Scott's site was was first introduced to us, I was one of the first to agree with you when you jokingly asked 'why would anyone want to leave here?' However, IAP could be a victim of it's own success. With so many members it is all too easy to say something that will accidently upset someone somewhere. I know as I've done it a few times.
After my last mistake, which was a bit like going into a bikers club and shouting that you hate bikes, which although I believed in, in hindsight I should have kept quiet.
To let things cool down, I took a break from this site. But I still wanted to talk shop so later joined Scott's site, albeit for one post.

I guess when a club has so many members you have to cater for the majority. Lots has been said about Eagle, good and bad. The fact remains, that he does two things better than most of us here. First his work has inspired more people than will admit and second, he tells it like it is. He is often his own worst enemy though and rises to the bait too easily. I hope he finds a place to show his work.
If I find out where he is, I'll still watch his work unfold.

Perhaps if people settled their differences ' off air' like Eagle and I did, then there would be less fighting.

The only thing about this site that doesn't do it any favours is that all topics are open to the public. Casual discussion, I think should be veiwable to members only.

Just my t'pence worth[:D]
 
Originally posted by jeff
<br />Just curious...Was Scott's site better in some way or just "different" ?? ....... let's find it and apply it here.
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Being a newbie to both sites, perhaps I can give a different perspective.

I visit these sites mainly to learn techniques and have the more experienced turned evaluate my work and tell me where I can improve or that I'm on track.

Here, as an example, I posted about a pen I made asking for design comments and had 278 views with 9 comments, three of which were mine. On the other forum I would have had 15 views and about the same number of replies, with the majority being honest critiques like... "nice pen but the colors clash" or "not a popular shape", etc.

I'm not basing everything on the above example, but in my eyes the above "stats" tell me that the majority of turners here don't have the time to mess with the new kids on the block, or that it's wasting their time or beneath them answering the "same old questions" over and over again.

I think this has a lot do do with this being an older forum with many members being friends for years, and just like in real life, it's easier to group with those you know than venture out and meet new folks.

The only way to change that if for everyone to think back to the day they posted their first pen or asked their first basic question and remember how thankful they were when they got answers to their questions.

'Course I could be wrong! [:D]

George
 
George, I fully understand and appreciate what you are saying. However, as has been mentioned above, many others might not take as kindly to those types of criticisms. Yes, there are those of us who openly ask for such remarks, but nost others do not. And providing such when not asked is begging trouble. Unfortunately, even when asked for it can be damaging. JMO
 
Jeff, The one thing I really liked was that it showed new posts like this site, but you could click on an icon and be taken to the actual new posts instead of scrolling down until you found the new comments. Other than that, most times, I really saw no reason why I should visit one more site. -Oh, and the ability to ignore a user was sweet and something I wish every forum site had.

Nothing against Scott, because the site was set up nice. However, the content seemed to be all the same and in my honest opinion, it seemed like that site was created just so that he could allow a certain friend to post once again. I know I am probably wrong, but that is the vibe I got from my visits there.
 
Originally posted by alamocdc
<br />George, I fully understand and appreciate what you are saying. However, as has been mentioned above, many others might not take as kindly to those types of criticisms. Yes, there are those of us who openly ask for such remarks, but nost others do not. And providing such when not asked is begging trouble. Unfortunately, even when asked for it can be damaging. JMO
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The way I see it, we are all over 21 (or close to it), fairly intelligent (or close to it) and if one chooses to post a photo or idea and <b>ASKS</b> for comments "good or bad", then that individual should be prepared for what he <b>ASKS</b> for. I have never bought into this "thinned skin" argument because it's ALWAYS ones choice to post a question or not.

If I post a photo where there is a gap between the blank and mating pen part or you can see 150 grit sand marks around the blank then I should fully expect someone to say... "It ain't supposed to be like that, here's how to avoid that blunder next time!"

And THIS problem, over time, turns members away from giving honest, frank, to-the-point comments and is replaced with "that's a nice pen"... when it's really not and the newbie thinks he's getting the hang of it, when he's not!

I've been told that I'm too abrubt at times, maybe so.[:)]

George
 
Originally posted by gerryr
<br />Gary,
Unfortunately, this is a horse that has been flogged repeatedly and ground into the dust. Anyone posting in SOYP can ask for a critique of their work. It's then up to those viewing the work to actually provide some constructive feedback. But, critiquing a pen from a photo is not easy, in fact it is extremely difficult, even from the best of photos. If the photo isn't first rate, how can anyone critique it?
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Jerry, With all due respect, I don't think that's entirely correct. As I eluded to in my previous post, one asking for honest feed back STILL isn't likely to get honest answers here because everyone has been "detuned" over time with their replies and the "politically correct" response is now just "nice pen". Maybe too many fire fights erupted over time due to some thin skinned folks having their feelings hurt... who knows.

I can only speak for myself, but if I ever post a pen photo with the writing tip sticking out the wrong end or a gold clip on a black titanium body, I'd sure appreciate someone telling me not to assemble another pen without my bifocals!

George
 
Originally posted by alamocdc
<br />George, we're singin' the same song, pal. Which is why I comment on few pens in SOYP of late.[;)]
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Me too. I am not snobbing anyone but unless I see a title (or person [;)]) that intrigues me, I hardly view any SOYP post anymore...I ran out of "politically correct" things to say!

Same reason I got a generic welcome to all members [:D].
 
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