Some pens using thread wrapped blanks
- Thread starter Ted Sachs
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jttheclockman
Member
Not to be negative but Ted is not the first to do this . I saw weaved patterns on a sierra pen about 5 or 6 years ago. Like I had mentioned before that is what got me interested in the idea. I dabbled a little but did not dedicate the time needed to learn tying to begin with. There are also many people that make pens using thread but no weaving patterns, They use them in place of doing a segmented blank. Here is an example.
Now the dedication to doing what Ted is showing us is extreme. Not at all easy to do on such a small tube. I marvel at his work. I will continue to enjoy every minute of it as long as he continues to show us mere mortals.
alphageek
Former Moderator
I'm not sure why Roy introduced the topic of someone copying Teds designs (nor do I understand the need to highlight it all by bright red posting).... but I have to say that in my opinion Ted makes the perfect IAP member and am glad to see him here. He is showing something that is beautiful, he is sharing significant tips about how its done. I don't know that I've seen it here, but I know that on Facebook he has even shared the public domain plans that he has used for these pens (admitting that even his stuff stands on others shoulders).
I don't think he is afraid of copying - and I'm GLAD for that. I know that there is some people here who want to keep some designs/processes unique to themselves and they have the right to do that. But I'm glad that many, many more post their ideas to share and let people try their own twist (pun intended) on things.
We need to share with the next generation, otherwise every amazing thing we do here will die with the maker. In some ways, I wish the old ways of apprentices would return to keep the arts/woodworking more alive!
I don't think he is afraid of copying - and I'm GLAD for that. I know that there is some people here who want to keep some designs/processes unique to themselves and they have the right to do that. But I'm glad that many, many more post their ideas to share and let people try their own twist (pun intended) on things.
We need to share with the next generation, otherwise every amazing thing we do here will die with the maker. In some ways, I wish the old ways of apprentices would return to keep the arts/woodworking more alive!
Ted Sachs
Member
Many years ago I started out as an apprentice under an Englishman working to be a cabinet maker. I worked my way up slowly until I finally made shop foreman. In that process one of my duties was to teach those under me the different facets of cabinet making. That mindset has forever been engrained in to my thought process. I don't believe in keeping things like that a secret. I will help anyone that has the desire to learn anything I know. I did it as a cabinet maker and I did that in the oil field. I consider it selfish to know how to do something and not want to share it with someone wanting to learn how to do it. Will this less to less sales for me? I doubt it with this. This process takes a lot of dedication and even more patience. It takes a certain person willing top spend the hours I spend wrapping these tubes. I work on these pretty much all day every day. It took a lot of trial and error to find out how to make rod wrapping work on pen making because a lot of it doesn't directly transfer over to the other and most patterns have to be altered to work on pens. My canvas is a lot smaller than the rod maker had with a fishing rod. I'm not trying to tout my own horn here, but only give a piece of the picture of what this is that I'm doing. I welcome others to get in to this genre of pen making. It's only when you have many people doing it that it grows in what can be done. There are a lot more people wanting this type of blank than I imagined and a lot less doing it that I would have thought. I never expected to be pretty much the only one. I never posted my stuff here until now because I just knew there were others doing it and doing it on a much better scale than I.
I apologize for the long post and the rant, but I don't understand the thought process of not sharing how to do something others want to learn. If I could make videos I'd have made one by now. I've been deemed disabled by the doctors and the line of work I was forced out of its no longer an option. Disability pays do little that the wife and I had to move in with our daughter and her husband so that I am close to the VA hospital. DOing the wrapping had been a blessing in that I can no longer do a bunch of pens every day like I could turning wood. That was something I couldn't do on my budget. Thread is relatively cheap and the process is long so now a pen a week it's doing good. There are a bunch of easy patterns I'll be doing just too sell that I've figured a way to do and still make a solar our two an hour on. I'll still play with the"theme" type of pen like the Dragon pen and a couple of other ideas I want to explore and I'll offer those blanks as a custom order at a substantially hight price.
jttheclockman
Member
Last 2 posts is what it is all about. Ted your work will stand alone here. It will be a huge pleasure to watch you continue to dazzle us. A pen medium that is not readily used and to do it with such exactness. I do know first hand this is not an easy thing to do so I appreciate it even more so. Continue success here and thanks for sharing.
The discussion about sharing ideas and new blanks has been discussed many times here. I have voiced my opinion on this many times and I truely believe that there is so much more out there to this hobby. I have said this time and time again and I do it to try to motivate people to try new things and not be afraid of failures.
Along comes a perfect example of these thoughts. There is more out there. Thanks again Ted.
Happy turning.
The discussion about sharing ideas and new blanks has been discussed many times here. I have voiced my opinion on this many times and I truely believe that there is so much more out there to this hobby. I have said this time and time again and I do it to try to motivate people to try new things and not be afraid of failures.
Along comes a perfect example of these thoughts. There is more out there. Thanks again Ted.
Happy turning.
Ted Sachs
Member
It would appear that it is I that should be thanking y'all. I'm getting kits sent to me by a couple of people now so I can experiment with new kits. As I have said, I am on disability and in that, I can't go out and buy every kit out there to try the ideas in my head. Like I just said to one of the donors, I can't believe the generosity of this group. I am beside myself and only hope I can do them all justice. I have so many patterns floating around that I want to see done. There are new patterns that I find everyday that when I see it the first thing that pops in my head is "Hey, that would look awesome on........" I found a pattern that has a Phoenix rising from the ashes, one that has a Navajo blanket look to it if the colors had been changed, and another with the Thunderbird flying that would look great on the Southwest pen. There are some really elegant looking patterns that would look good on some of the high end pens, or what I call high end pens, and with the right color combination with just a edging of either chrome, metallic black, or gold to tie the blank in to the finish of the pen. Now I have to get back to work. Just starting a red metallic Dragon pen. This one ought to slay y'all.
tjseagrove
Member
But how many years before the quality of the wraps that are presented can be duplicated? This has a strong artistic quality that will be difficult the match.
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tbroye
Member
PSI and others will have copies out by the first of the year. Those are a work of art. Wrapping a Fishing Pole is hard enough but a pen tube and then casting is a whole different level. There is a program being written as we post about this, or some kid in Asia is sitting in his hut working on it.
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Ted Sachs
Member
I'm using mostly PSI pens for my "Theme" pens.
They are what get my cobwebs turning. Check out the thread I started just a minute ago on Patterns for future pens I want to do.
OKLAHOMAN
Member
You can't copy quality
Ted and Dean, my post was not meant to say anything but what it said that Ted's work is so far out there that anyone that tries to copy it will not get to the quality Ted has. Ted has no thoughts of being the only one that makes these and as we have talked I know he would answer any questions as to how. My post was simply to let him know that some will try but fall way short of his quality for now.
My highlighting it in red was only to show to the entire IAP membership that read the post that there are and will always be those that would rather as said by you Dean, stand on others shoulders than think for themselves.
Ted, your showing and sharing is to be commended, but as I said in my original post that Dean referenced I just don't see in the near future anyone meeting your quality sir.
Ted and Dean, my post was not meant to say anything but what it said that Ted's work is so far out there that anyone that tries to copy it will not get to the quality Ted has. Ted has no thoughts of being the only one that makes these and as we have talked I know he would answer any questions as to how. My post was simply to let him know that some will try but fall way short of his quality for now.
My highlighting it in red was only to show to the entire IAP membership that read the post that there are and will always be those that would rather as said by you Dean, stand on others shoulders than think for themselves.
Ted, your showing and sharing is to be commended, but as I said in my original post that Dean referenced I just don't see in the near future anyone meeting your quality sir.
Skie_M
Member
Simple brainstorm...
Oh, and I also advocate sharing ... how else would we be able to sit miles apart from each other and STILL help advance each other's art, as though we were sitting next to you?
Use a nylon rod or PVC pipe rather than a wooden dowel for your backer rod. If it's long enough that it gets too floppy, you can run a steel rod inside it as a backbone to keep it straight. CA doesn't readily stick to nylon or PVC, and epoxy also has issues with nylon. In this way, you could line up several pen tubes (perhaps spaced a half inch apart on the rod) and wrap a multitude all at once. Apply your color seal and a few layers of rod building epoxy or whatever you wish to seal with ...
Cut the blanks apart and trim back to the brass tubes ... then send them off for casting or sell them as is to someone who wants to do the casting themselves ... or cast them and sell them like that. Don't cut the backing rod, just slide them all off the nylon rod at once!
This technique would work with any kit pen style that uses short tubes of ANY size, you just need the properly sized nylon rod to use as a backer.
This technique would also work best with any static pattern ... especially if the pattern's signature matches the gap between brass tubes perfectly.
Have you thought about stickers on top of your thread art, sealed in place? It would make a pattern like the confederate flag an easy piece. Decals would work as well.
Oh, and I also advocate sharing ... how else would we be able to sit miles apart from each other and STILL help advance each other's art, as though we were sitting next to you?
Use a nylon rod or PVC pipe rather than a wooden dowel for your backer rod. If it's long enough that it gets too floppy, you can run a steel rod inside it as a backbone to keep it straight. CA doesn't readily stick to nylon or PVC, and epoxy also has issues with nylon. In this way, you could line up several pen tubes (perhaps spaced a half inch apart on the rod) and wrap a multitude all at once. Apply your color seal and a few layers of rod building epoxy or whatever you wish to seal with ...
Cut the blanks apart and trim back to the brass tubes ... then send them off for casting or sell them as is to someone who wants to do the casting themselves ... or cast them and sell them like that. Don't cut the backing rod, just slide them all off the nylon rod at once!
This technique would work with any kit pen style that uses short tubes of ANY size, you just need the properly sized nylon rod to use as a backer.
This technique would also work best with any static pattern ... especially if the pattern's signature matches the gap between brass tubes perfectly.
Have you thought about stickers on top of your thread art, sealed in place? It would make a pattern like the confederate flag an easy piece. Decals would work as well.
Ted Sachs
Member
I understand what you are saying and might have to give some of it a try. As for the stickers or decals, I can't see doing that. The whole thing about the wrapping is being able to, while not duplicate, create something that when you look at it, you know what I'm portraying. Your example, for example, about the Confederate Flag. It just so happens, I found a pattern that if I wrap it using the right colors you will immediately say that's the battle flag. It won't be it exactly, but it will sure bring that to mind. For me, my wrapping has to stand on its own for the most part. When I do a themed pen like the dragon pen, I want you to look at it and see his scales running down his body. I'm not so sure about the sticker or decal aspect. At least, not right now. I do thank you for the advice though. I will give it more thought, but that was my immediate impression.
jttheclockman
Member
I agree 10000% do not ever add stickers. This is an art in itself that needs to stand alone. The patterns themselves tell the story. PSI would never be able to duplicate this medium even if they tried. No worries there.
Now Ted I am sure you know of these sites because of your past doings with rods. But these are the ones I belong to and joined back in 2009 when I became interested. There is a site dedicated to weave patterns and you can see many examples of the patterns in the galleries. This is where I saw the pen but for the life of me I can not find it again. I may have saved the photo on my old computer and never brought it over. I searched for the owner but was never able to find out who did it. Maybe of interest to you or others. Billy40 is the main owner and is the best of the best in thread wraping. He holds classes and I was to attend one back in the day but was never able to make it.
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Now Ted I am sure you know of these sites because of your past doings with rods. But these are the ones I belong to and joined back in 2009 when I became interested. There is a site dedicated to weave patterns and you can see many examples of the patterns in the galleries. This is where I saw the pen but for the life of me I can not find it again. I may have saved the photo on my old computer and never brought it over. I searched for the owner but was never able to find out who did it. Maybe of interest to you or others. Billy40 is the main owner and is the best of the best in thread wraping. He holds classes and I was to attend one back in the day but was never able to make it.
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Rod Building Forum - SurfTalk
