Shipping COST???

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GPDMTR25

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OK shipping Rant…..What's up these days with company shipping rates? I went to Bear tooth woods to purchase three pen kits, shipping was almost 7.00. I went to HUT products to purchase 10 dome pen clips, shipping 7.99….I was on another site to purchase 25.00 worth of small storage containers, shipping 11.99..YES 11.99!!. What ever happened to first class 2.20….Even if a company uses Priority Mail then the most it should be for these items is 4.80. What's up with the extra amount….Handling?? But isn't that what an Internet site is suppose to do, sell things. Isn't that their job to mail it so why the handling price. Needless to say I didn't purchase any of the above items. I'll wait for free shipping, or at least reasonable shipping from another site.

I'm I going crazy. What to you all think about these shipping rates?:confused:
 
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As a seller, both wholesale and retail, I do charge a small handling fee. It is based on the order, rather than adding the estimated cost to each piece. The handling fee covers things like bubble wrap, mailing labels, tape, etc. I could increase my prices, but I feel that the handling charge should be based on the order rather than the cost of the merchandise.
 
I am giving a comment on something that I know "used to be" but not certain now.

My hometown is near Memphis, TN and I watched the birth of FedEx and into what it is today. Several times when back home, I needed to send a small package and even mail to Japan as fast as possible. It was an arm and a leg almost 15 years ago. Seems like $15 to $25 if I remember correctly. But at the same time I was receiving items here in Japan at a considerably cheaper rate through FedEx than the smaller items that I wanted to send.

When I began to explore this, I found out was that volume plus competition, instead of universal set rates. Where there was competition, the price was cheaper. AS to USPS, my small home town PO refused to do certain priority mail packaging to Japan. Either regular air mail package or go to another post office in another town.

Then there are the small companies that refuse to send regular mail because of it being untrackable. Never mind being insured, as a claim usually takes weeks to be recovered. The lost package often ended in a lost customer. Then there are the few costumers who will claim they did not get something that they in fact did, but since it was untraceable, customer service from the company reshipped and lost money.

If I were in business, I would NOT ship unless it was traceable, trackable and insured. My local (neighborhood) post office here in Toyota several times has refused to let me send a package to the States in normal Air Mail. I was required to send it in a trackable form. I think that is wrong, but sometimes you can't argue and get away with it!
 
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GPDMTR25 said:
OK shipping Rant…..What's up these days with company shipping rates? I went to Bear tooth woods to purchase three pen kits, shipping was almost 7.00. I went to HUT products to purchase 10 dome pen clips, shipping 7.99….I was on another site to purchase 25.00 worth of small storage containers, shipping 11.99..YES 11.99!!. What ever happened to first class 2.20….Even if a company uses Priority Mail then the most it should be for these items is 4.80. What's up with the extra amount….Handling?? But isn't that what an Internet site is suppose to do, sell things. Isn't that their job to mail it so why the handling price. Needless to say I didn't purchase any of the above items. I'll wait for free shipping, or at least reasonable shipping from another site.

I'm I going crazy. What to you all think about these shipping rates?:confused:
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Before venting your spleen on vendors, two of three by name, did you take the time to email the vendor and ask if alternative shipping was available? If not, I would suggest you do so before making such a post.
 
You obviously have never been on the other side of mail order. Here is the deal.

Once you place your order someone has to pull it off of the internet shopping cart. Depending on the software all of your order has to be typed into an accounting software. Then someone has to pull your order while another person verifies and packs that order. From there your order will go into one of several different shipping programs based on the type of shipping you requested. If they are lucky and you as a customer request priority mail and the business does not have to pay for the box, but of course you want $2.20 first class so now there is that added expense to ship to you. There is tape, bubble wrap and peanuts as well. If the company has efficent employees, the process will take 15 minutes once you place your order. At minumum wage there is a couple of bucks, but wait we have to throw in a little thing called bennifits as well as the businesses portion of SS collections.

Now if you don't want to pay for that service, you just jump in your car and drive right over to the company and pick it up. What, you bought from the place with the best price and they do not have a walk-in option because they operate out of an industrial park because retail space is so expensive and they want to be competative?

If you have not figure it out by this point let me help you, $7.00 shipping is a pretty damn good deal.

Now my vent is over.
 
I can see this from both sides. I know there is handling to be done.. and there's the
tape, the boxes, envelopes, etc. I don't expect to pay just what they pay the post
office. I ship my molds by flat rate even though it might be a little bit less via parcel
post or first class, but then I'd have to go buy the boxes too. Maybe the big companies
have their mail picked up for them, but for me it means packing up and going to the
post office. I don't charge for that stuff, but I could. And it doesn't surprise me or
bother me when other companies do. I understand it.

But I was going to buy some silicone fluid yesterday and it was $9.45 shipping for a
pint bottle that cost $18. And this was a bottle that would go in a box that they were
already shipping to me. I had to pass on it.

I could have called them to ask, but that would mean delaying the rest of my order
for another day .. or sending it by itself later on (which would be a separate box and
the same shipping price) Sometimes it rolls our way .. and sometimes not.
 
GPDMTR25 said:
OK shipping Rant…..What's up these days with company shipping rates? I went to Bear tooth woods to purchase three pen kits, shipping was almost 7.00. I went to HUT products to purchase 10 dome pen clips, shipping 7.99….I was on another site to purchase 25.00 worth of small storage containers, shipping 11.99..YES 11.99!!. What ever happened to first class 2.20….Even if a company uses Priority Mail then the most it should be for these items is 4.80. What's up with the extra amount….Handling?? But isn't that what an Internet site is suppose to do, sell things. Isn't that their job to mail it so why the handling price. Needless to say I didn't purchase any of the above items. I'll wait for free shipping, or at least reasonable shipping from another site.

I'm I going crazy. What to you all think about these shipping rates?:confused:
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It's not their job to mail things. Their job is to sell things. They could charge you actual price for shipping.

Do you have any idea what a cardboard box costs? A 12x12x12 cardboard box costs around .60 each wholesale, and that's only if you buy in lots of 1000 at a time, plus tape, plus peanuts or bubble wrap, plus the shipping labels, plus the printer and computer wear and tear to print out the label so on and so forth. That doesn't even include value added time.

Your choice is either to order some place that you can pick up or order enough quantity that $7.00 seems insignificant.
 
wdcav1952 said:
Before venting your spleen on vendors, two of three by name, did you take the time to email the vendor and ask if alternative shipping was available? If not, I would suggest you do so before making such a post.
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I dont agree with this. He posted facts. Why should he go out of his way? The vendor lost the sale because the CUSTOMER was not satisifed with the service. Pure and simple.
Tom
 
When a company puts up a website to sell items to be shipped they are in business to ship as well as sell items. They know they are going to have the expense of packing items to ship and I feel that they should factor that into their pricing and just charge what the shipping actually costs. I find the best way to deal with companies charging high shipping and handling costs is just don't do business with them. Instead of just complaining on here do like I do and let them know you would like to do business with them but will not because of their handling charges. It has never done any good but it makes me feel better to let them know how I feel. There are many good companies out there to deal with that will not gouge you on shipping. One of my favorites is Wood-N-Whimsies because if they can get your order in a flat rate envelope thats all you pay for.
 
GPDMTR25 said:
OK shipping Rant…..What's up these days with company shipping rates? I went to Bear tooth woods to purchase three pen kits, shipping was almost 7.00. I went to HUT products to purchase 10 dome pen clips, shipping 7.99….I was on another site to purchase 25.00 worth of small storage containers, shipping 11.99..YES 11.99!!. What ever happened to first class 2.20….Even if a company uses Priority Mail then the most it should be for these items is 4.80.

I'm I going crazy. What to you all think about these shipping rates?:confused:
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I pay for delivery from CSUSA to Europe about 100 $ per delivery. IF I buy 20 kits, it is reasonable. For 1 or 2 kits - not so much.
It must be quite good to be able te get any kit you want for few $.
 
To be honest, the shipping is worth the savings to me. I have a PSI dealer about 1 mile from my house and a Woodcraft just a few miles farther. I could buy from them to avoid shipping costs, but I've found that their prices are MUCH higher for the same kits even without shipping. I guess the local vendors have to pay shipping to get the items in their store, eh? Add the facility costs and it gets way up there.

I still support my local vendors by buying hardwoods and tools. I don't want them disappearing.

Online vendors do a decent job, some are great.
 
If you buy just a few items each time you order instead of buying larger quantities you are just cheating yourself. Most of the time the first item you buy absorbs all of the related packing and handling costs. The shipping on everything else on an order is based on the added weight of the items ordered.
 
GPDMTR25 said:
OK shipping Rant…..What's up these days with company shipping rates? I went to Bear tooth woods to purchase three pen kits, shipping was almost 7.00. I went to HUT products to purchase 10 dome pen clips, shipping 7.99….I was on another site to purchase 25.00 worth of small storage containers, shipping 11.99..YES 11.99!!. What ever happened to first class 2.20….Even if a company uses Priority Mail then the most it should be for these items is 4.80. What's up with the extra amount….Handling?? But isn't that what an Internet site is suppose to do, sell things. Isn't that their job to mail it so why the handling price. Needless to say I didn't purchase any of the above items. I'll wait for free shipping, or at least reasonable shipping from another site.

I'm I going crazy. What to you all think about these shipping rates?:confused:
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It doesn't sound like you have ever worked from the business side of things. All of the time and effort it takes to pull, pack, label, and ship is significant. They can either a) make a profit or b)go out of business. I guarantee you Ernie is not making money off of the shipping.

Yes, it is part of their "job" to mail it, obviously. Do you do part of your job for free? :-\

TomW said:
I dont agree with this. He posted facts. Why should he go out of his way? The vendor lost the sale because the CUSTOMER was not satisifed with the service. Pure and simple.
Tom
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The customer was not satisfied with the price, not the service. Two different things. Good service often comes at a higher price.

Granted, I am sure that some establishments aim to make some money off the shipping. If it is disclosed, however, there is no shame in that. A business has to turn a profit. Shipping costs are not going to get any cheaper. Your alternative is to drive somewhere and buy in person (also not cheap =))

Many places, like Bear Tooth, have a minimum shipping rate, so if you had bought 50 pen kits, it probably still would have been 7.00 to ship. I would bet if you asked Ernie about an alternative with a shipment that small and light, he might be able to accommodate you.
 
Tuba707 said:
The customer was not satisfied with the price, not the service. Two different things. Good service often comes at a higher price.
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No, the customer was dissatisfied with the service. Hiding the shipping/handling until late in the transaction is poor service....

Can you enlighten me about a place where "good service comes at a higher price"? There are lots of places (especially here at IAP) where the best service comes with good prices.

Tom
 
TomW said:
No, the customer was dissatisfied with the service. Hiding the shipping/handling until late in the transaction is poor service....

Can you enlighten me about a place where "good service comes at a higher price"? There are lots of places (especially here at IAP) where the best service comes with good prices.

Tom
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He didn't order or even interact with them, so I don't believe that it counts as service. There was no transaction or communication between potential customer and the companies.

If you go to Wal-Mart, walk around and look at some items, then decide the prices are higher than you want to pay and leave, would you consider that poor customer service on Wal-Marts part?

Shipping cannot be accurately determined until the items have been through the checkout process - hence shipping charges always occuring later in the process. This is normal and necessary.

As far as good service and higher prices, it happens all around. I know of several local landscapers that are very cheap but do a poor job. I know of a few others that are quite expensive and do an excellent job and will come back as many times as necessary to get things "just right" for the customer. High price does not necessarily equal better service, but great service always comes at a higher cost, or the business will not be profitable.

The IAP has some great vendors who have good service at a good price, you are right. But they are still making money, so its a good price for them too. I never said all good service is expensive =) We are fortunate enough here to get both, but that isn't often the case across the board. I think there are just a lot of variables that you are not considering. I promise that if you ever go into business for yourself, your perspective will change a bit! =)
 
traderdon55 said:
I find the best way to deal with companies charging high shipping and handling costs is just don't do business with them. Instead of just complaining on here do like I do and let them know you would like to do business with them but will not because of their handling charges. It has never done any good but it makes me feel better to let them know how I feel.
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Well, this doesn't seem like it accomplishes much.. :confused:
 
traderdon55 said:
I feel that they should factor that into their pricing and just charge what the shipping actually costs.
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So instead of an order total of $19.95 plus $7.00 shipping, you would be the type to pay $30.00 and free shipping.

The main problem is customers and business look at the cost of shipping in two different ways. One thinks of what UPS or USPS collect and the other thinks of the total cost including overhead. You cannot factor in shipping to the cost of the product because not every order is the same. If one order is $20 and another order is 10 items at $20 and you figure shipping costs into the product price who do you think gets the short end of the stick?
 
This topic forces you to think like a business owner.

FUN, isn't it???

No matter WHAT you do, there IS a downside.

BTW, those who think it should be EXACT, ACTUAL cost--- that software costs money, too and takes a more sophisticated website to support it, which costs money. Where should those costs be allocated? Into the product or into the shipping?

This is a SERIOUS question, Dawn and I have kicked it around for several months, we lose a TON on shipping, but don't like ANY of the alternatives.
 
It is real simple Ed. Even if they lived 30min from you and they drove to pick up the order it would cost more than the shipping you charge. Then add to that how much the Kringle would cost because you CAN'T go to Racine without stopping for a Kringle!!!!

Dawn you can also add a service charge for the privlidge of being waited on by you. If Ed waits on them they get a discount! :eek:
 
Perhaps what you need is perspective...try getting ANYTHING shipped across a border, and see how much you'll be paying then...One certainly is more careful about impulse purchases when it'll cost 20 dollars to get a small package shipped! :)

I'm a bit concerned about the negative publicity you're heaping on our vendors, when all they're doing is charging the posted price for shipping. If you wanted a different option, you should have contacted them in advance to discuss it rather than publicly complaining about it after the fact.

Ernie at Beartooth uses a computer program that estimates the cost of shipping. It could be that your order wouldn't have been charged that rate. We don't know, because you didn't contact him...

I'd bet that if you contacted the suppliers directly with your small order and concerns about shipping, and were reasonable and polite, you'd get a lot better response than if you just complain after the fact. (or without ordering, in this case)...

Just my opinion...

Andrew
 
ed4copies said:
This is a SERIOUS question, Dawn and I have kicked it around for several months, we lose a TON on shipping, but don't like ANY of the alternatives.
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What?? You're not willing to deliver each and every package personally without charging extra. Boy, some customer service you have:tongue::wink::biggrin:
 
Tuba707 said:
If you go to Wal-Mart, walk around and look at some items, then decide the prices are higher than you want to pay and leave, would you consider that poor customer service on Wal-Marts part?
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To make the analogy correct, you would need to select an item based on price, go to the checkout, and then have a handling or processing fee applied.

The price of goods should include the cost to the business of selling the goods. All businesses have costs, and all businesses have to figure out a selling price that takes all costs into account. You can choose to charge more for the product, or to use add-on charges like handling fees. You make your choice, and the customer gets to make his choice -- whether to pay it or go elsewhere.

I don't think you can fault those vendors for charging the fees. You just decide whether to pay them or not, and that's the end of the story.
 
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The Walmart analogy does not account for the time you spent or the expense of getting there, if it takes an hour to go and buy locally, that is an hour I have lost from my productivity. Then there is the mileage factor to consider. In some cases it is cheaper to order online and pay shipping than drive to the local source.
 
Guy got shot in Wal_Mart's parking lot last week (really). Do we factor this into the calculation? I did, I didn't stop there, that day.
 
MLKWoodWorking said:
So instead of an order total of $19.95 plus $7.00 shipping, you would be the type to pay $30.00 and free shipping.

The main problem is customers and business look at the cost of shipping in two different ways. One thinks of what UPS or USPS collect and the other thinks of the total cost including overhead. You cannot factor in shipping to the cost of the product because not every order is the same. If one order is $20 and another order is 10 items at $20 and you figure shipping costs into the product price who do you think gets the short end of the stick?
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No where did I say I wanted shipping included in the price, I just said I felt the overhead of labor and shipping supplies should be factored into the price and we should only be charged actual shipping costs. I realize it is cheaper to pack 10 of an item instead of 1 and in that case many places offer a cheaper price when you buy larger quanities. Not everyone agrees and I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion. The original post asked what we thought and I just gave my opinion.A lot of people don't mind the handling charges or a lot of companies would be out of business. I just choose not to pay them. The companies have the right to charge them or not,just as we have the right to buy from them and pay their charges or not buy from them. Thats the nice thing about this great country we live in, we all have the right to state our own opinion and make our own choices!
 
jkeithrussell said:
To make the analogy correct, you would need to select an item based on price, go to the checkout, and then have a handling or processing fee applied.

The price of goods should include the cost to the business of selling the goods. All businesses have costs, and all businesses have to figure out a selling price that takes all costs into account. You can choose to charge more for the product, or to use add-on charges like handling fees. You make your choice, and the customer gets to make his choice -- whether to pay it or go elsewhere.

I don't think you can fault those vendors for charging the fees. You just decide whether to pay them or not, and that's the end of the story.
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So every analogy breaks down at some point, I understand that =) It wasn't meant to be equivalent on every variable. The point was that, with no interaction OR transaction, you cannot claim "poor customer service", or any type of customer service for that matter.
 
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3 panache kits from Rockler were going to cost me nearly $40 to send to Ireland. What were they going to do, paddle over? Luckily a friend on the site is helping me out
 
Tuba707 said:
It doesn't sound like you have ever worked from the business side of things......[/quote]
My turn.....:biggrin:

So what does THAT have to do with anything? Do I need to know how to milk a cow before buying a gallon of milk from the local Braums?

I think some of the examples in several posts above are kinda stretching things a bit just to make a point.

Padding shipping and handling fees are just another source of revenue and some outfits do indeed charge too much and it has NOTHING to do with what it actually costs them to ship an item.

You don't see companies charging for part of their website costs at checkout do you? You don't see them charging for part of their electric bill do you, or their water bill or their cost of advertising, etc? Of course not, these are "cost of doing business".... JUST LIKE shipping products out the door.

When companies sell things they include these costs in their pricing structure much as we do when we sell a pen. We don't just charge for the kit and blank, we figure in the costs mentioned above and if shipping is a huge expense, it shoud be factored in as well.

Ed, you mentioned you lose a ton on shipping but you don't mention that you make ten tons on sales so at the end of the day when all the dust settles, you are money ahead and that's what it is all about... making money! It really doesn't matter where each nickel comes from or how much a roll of tape costs.

I think many people have learned from ebay, sell an item cheap then charge $25 S/H!
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As a seller, I personally do not believe in charging any more than actual shipping. My shipping policy states that my cart will charge for Small Flat Rate Shipping and that if I can ship for less, I will refund the difference. Takes just a few seconds extra when printing the shipping label through Paypal to look at what the shipping cost. After the label is printed, I click on refund and refund the difference. Done.

As for shipping supplies and other related shipping costs...that is part of the cost of doing business in my opinion. It is already figured into the cost of my blanks.
 
Texatdurango said:
Tuba707 said:
It doesn't sound like you have ever worked from the business side of things......[/quote]
My turn.....:biggrin:

So what does THAT have to do with anything? Do I need to know how to milk a cow before buying a gallon of milk from the local Braums?

I think some of the examples in several posts above are kinda stretching things a bit just to make a point.

Padding shipping and handling fees are just another source of revenue and some outfits do indeed charge too much and it has NOTHING to do with what it actually costs them to ship an item.

You don't see companies charging for part of their website costs at checkout do you? You don't see them charging for part of their electric bill do you, or their water bill or their cost of advertising, etc? Of course not, these are "cost of doing business".... JUST LIKE shipping products out the door.

When companies sell things they include these costs in their pricing structure much as we do when we sell a pen. We don't just charge for the kit and blank, we figure in the costs mentioned above and if shipping is a huge expense, it shoud be factored in as well.
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It has to do with the perspective of the poster. I was not being inflammatory with that comment. A business-owner or business-minded individual will think about this issue from a different perspective.

Yes, we are charged for those things, they are just not itemized like shipping. And ironically, some people would rather have low unit prices and higher shipping, and some people like a higher unit price and free shipping. Its the same thing in two different packages.

How do you factor shipping into everyone's orders when they are all different quantities, different items, and shipped to different places?
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So what does THAT have to do with anything? Do I need to know how to milk a cow before buying a gallon of milk from the local Braums?

No, but you would have a much better idea WHY that gallon costs $3, if you did run a dairy farm!!

And yes, we DO make a profit at exotics. That was the plan and so far it is on target---somewhat. At each stage, we also evaluate where the profit is being "eaten" by our inefficiencies (we are NOT a government agency, willing and able to just raise taxes). Then we try to improve. Make sense now??
 
MesquiteMan said:
As a seller, I personally do not believe in charging any more than actual shipping. My shipping policy states that my cart will charge for Small Flat Rate Shipping and that if I can ship for less, I will refund the difference. Takes just a few seconds extra when printing the shipping label through Paypal to look at what the shipping cost. After the label is printed, I click on refund and refund the difference. Done.

As for shipping supplies and other related shipping costs...that is part of the cost of doing business in my opinion. It is already figured into the cost of my blanks .
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And I think many outfits have it factored into their prices as well, but they have just figured out a way to squeeze a little extra out of their customers. What's the phrase..... "whatever the traffic will bare?" :eek:
 
Texatdurango said:
And I think many outfits have it factored into their prices as well, but they have just figured out a way to squeeze a little extra out of their customers. What's the phrase..... "whatever the traffic will bare?" :eek:
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How do you factor shipping into everyone's orders when they are all different quantities, different items, and shipped to different places?
 
I went and did an order on Beartooth, the shipping is the same if you order one pen or 12. $6 and change is the flat rate amount for US orders. Hut ships UPS, and UPS picks up the orders at their place of business. Their UPS charges are more than reasonable.

Easiest solution is to order in quantity, spread the base cost of shipping over several items. If you are running a business, you need to run it like a business. If I ordered 2 or 3 of an item at a time my costs would skyrocket. I try to order in multiples of 50 at a time. Shipping for one is $6.95, shipping for 50 or even a 500 is $6.95, good business practices tell me to order as much as I can instead of just what I need this week.
 
ed4copies said:

No, but you would have a much better idea WHY that gallon costs $3, if you did run a dairy farm!!
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We pay $3.97(milk) here in TO, but it's all the same. We get dinged with higher shipping costs from USA 'vendors' cause we're Canucks. Guess we deserve it because of our 'different' accent$$$$.:wink::biggrin:
 
I'm curious about something.........

When I did my federal taxes last year I entered my pen sales in one area, cost of supplies in another, tool depreciation in another and misc expenses like postage, envelopes. office supplies, etc. in another area.

I wonder where folks put the money they gain from shipping and handling fees, profit or expense or... is it a gray area that's possibly just forgotten? :eek:
 
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Texatdurango said:
I'm curious about something.........

When I did my federal taxes last year I entered my pen sales in one area, cost of supplies in another, tool depreciation in another and misc expenses like postage, envelopes. office supplies, etc. in another area.

I wonder where folks put the money they gain from shipping and handling fees, profit or expense or... is it a gray area that's possibly just forgotten? :eek:
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Any balance beyond actual physical shipping costs (box, packing supplies,shipping) should go under sales.

Employee compensation and driving to drop off packages (if applicable) would then be expenses.

That is what should happen. It is entirely possible that some businesses (illegally) pad their actual income by listing the full s&h as an expense.
 
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