Round or square carbide tools?

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JamesB

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I'm thinking hard about making the jump to a carbide tool with the round or square inserts. What's the difference between round and square bars as far as handling and use? Is one easier than the other? What about the inserts? I think I would dig the square's corners into everything.

Then again, I want a new filter for my aquarium. Filter or carbide...Choices, choices :confused:
 
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I would think the perfectly square inserts would dig in as you say. I also think a round bar on a carbide too would be very hard to use without catching. I have a very narrow square bar on the tool I have (it's much narrower than the insert here's a pic) and I have to be very aware not to use the cutter beyond where my bar is sitting on the tool rest as this makes the tool have a tendency to want to twist and catch. I'm interested in hearing from more experienced users.
 
I tried the round one first when I got my woodchuck tool. I fiddled around for a few minutes and went to the square-ish one. I threw the round cutter away and will stick with the square-ish. It just feels very natural for me - very easy to use.
 
I have the round and the square.I purchased them from a member here.
wood-of-one-kind. I hardly ever use the square one.The round is much better and doesn't dig in unless you make it do so.(just my opinion)
Good luck!
 
The R-2 insert is probably your best option. You have the corners so you can be agressive and quicly knock a blank round. Then you have a slightly curved edge to do your finish turning and should have no problem avoiding hitting the corners in the blank. As you get better and more comfortable you can go with an R-4 which still has a very slight curve to the insert. The squares are great for tenons though.
 
SCR0LL3R said:
I would think the perfectly square inserts would dig in as you say. I also think a round bar on a carbide too would be very hard to use without catching. I have a very narrow square bar on the tool I have (it's much narrower than the insert here's a pic) and I have to be very aware not to use the cutter beyond where my bar is sitting on the tool rest as this makes the tool have a tendency to want to twist and catch. I'm interested in hearing from more experienced users.
Click to expand...

So you don't angle the carbide cutter like a regular chisel? I need to google some vids of these things in action.
 
I have two I made, one a 6 radius and one a 2 radius square insert.

I finds the 6 works best (for me) on plastics and the 2 on wood. The 2 needs more care on plastics as it is more aggressive in the cutting. With care either leaves a finish I can start sanding at 600. (They both work well on aluminum. they R 2 giving a bit of a heavier cut and making curves more easily)

I made both with round shafts (1/2 inch round bar), they move very freely over my (also homemade) round bar tool rests and allow me to use the cutters in a wide variety of different angles with no effort. They're really simple, fast, and cheap to make, I don't know why it costs so much to buy them.

But, I'm new to turning so I may not be the best reference.
 
JamesB said:
SCR0LL3R said:
I would think the perfectly square inserts would dig in as you say. I also think a round bar on a carbide too would be very hard to use without catching. I have a very narrow square bar on the tool I have (it's much narrower than the insert here's a pic) and I have to be very aware not to use the cutter beyond where my bar is sitting on the tool rest as this makes the tool have a tendency to want to twist and catch. I'm interested in hearing from more experienced users.
Click to expand...

So you don't angle the carbide cutter like a regular chisel? I need to google some vids of these things in action.
Click to expand...

I don't usually angle them and if it happens by accident, it often catches. I tried using it at an angle on purpose and it seemed to work ok but not as well as when used flat. Again, I'm not very experienced so take my words with a grain of salt.

I don't use my carbide much except on Tru-Stone because it is rather slow at taking material off and I also feel much more confident and comfortable with a gouge.

Now, after reading a few tool threads, I am finding myself wanting to try several new tools... another dent in my wallet. :smile:
 
I have the Easy Wood Carbide tools and I predominately use the round bit. You might find it interesting that they call the square tip the "roughing" tool and the round tip the "finishing" tool. I find you end up cutting differently with the different style tips. With the square tip you tend to cut more with the side of the bit than the front edge. The front edge is going to be so wide that you will be digging in a lot of material at once if you push straight in. A round bit has less contact area so I find there is less chance of catching. Lets say you were turning a segmented blank with a piece of aluminum embedded....you do not want the aluminum to catch on the full length of a square bit. The round bit will feel so much better to you in that situation. I replaced my square bit that had radius corners with a perfectly square bit when I needed to start making tenons.

So to be honest I think you will end up wanting both depending on the situation.
 
Do you plan on buying or making your own? If you have a fellow turner or turners close by who would be willing to let you try some different options, you may get a better feel for what you want. I made my own using round bar, but I use the radiused square cutters. Works great in my opinion, but I've never used any other carbide tool, so I have nothing to compare to. I do like the fact that since it is round, I can easily angle the cutter if needed to use it more like a skew...
 
I prefer a square bar, just for support, I did make a couple of tools for Keith Long out of Hex Stock, and uses an 11 mm insert, I also made a tool out of 3/4 O1 and tapered the last 4 inches and milled a flat that aligns the insert at a 30 degree negative rake, I love this tool, but they are a pain to make with the different set ups. and realigning my Tail Stock, it's great for hollowing even going pretty deep it doesn't catch. I looked at the new Hunter tool those inserts are incredible, but at 23.00 each they should be, (Notice the forward leaning rake of the insert and the dished top.
If you use one of these you'd better pay attention, they will cut unbelievably fast, and catch even faster. but the tool has a nice wide 5/8ths body, so it's going to have some weight to back up the nice footprint.
 
I have a Woodchuck with the square inserts and use it just like a skew. That may not be how it was designed to be used, but it works very well for me.

At the local woodworking show, I used an Easy Wood small round cutter the same way. It was the only tool that CSUSA wanted visitors to their booth to use.
 
I use both a round and a square, not a radiused one. Square for roughing and tennons mainly, its a bit dull, round for the last few passes, shearing cut. Gives a great finish from the tool. I might make a r2 or r4 tool soon, too. Personaly I would buy cutters and make my own, even with woodcrafts overpriced EWT cutters, 2 tools for less than 40 bucks works for me!
 
I just had some bars made to make my own tools. My father is a machinist and so it only cost me about $2 to make 2 of them :) . Along with the cost savings, I also wanted to make them slightly different from what I have seen in similar tools available commercially.

So yesterday I called Ken Ferrel and talked to him for a few minutes about the types of cutters and their behavior. I ordered an r2 an r4 and an 18mm round cutter from him. The prices for the round cutters seems to be about the same everywhere and at least with Ken's, I can be quite confident that I am getting quality inserts and as a bonus, all three can be sourced from one place. Thank you Ken for sharing your experience. I hope to get them soon so I can start playing with them.
 
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