Quick Vent

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
ed4copies said:
Use of material - Composition and originality.

Over all looks – We want the most beautiful pens.

But, since we are saying the blank is secondary and not part of the judging, how will we decide on a "beautiful" pen? Is this really meant to say the design of the pen is beautiful--since we anticipate mostly kitless---the "lines" of the pen are pleasing??

Words have meaning----but that meaning is open to interpretation. If you are an "Unpopular member" or "pain in the a$$", you may be well advised to try to know the interpretation BEFORE you enter to avoid being kicked out.

Kind of interesting when viewed from another perspective, isn't it?

FWIW,
Ed
Click to expand...

You are talking about something different than what I am talking about.

The issue I am speaking about is where an entrant should place himself, and what factors should he consider when making that decision. That decision is, or should be, based upon the entrants self assessment of his own skills. The quality of the kit he uses, the complexity of the blank he uses, does not play into the decision. What he feels capable of doing with the kit, the blank, does go into the decision.

Unless I misunderstood you and Jonathon Ed S, believes and advocates that the use of one of Toni's blanks is an indicator of the entrants advanced skill. I do not believe that is the case.

If someone enters a pistol match with an $1100.00 Kimber doesn't make that person an advanced shooter. It is what he can do with the gun that determines his skill level. Same thing here.

You have cited the judging criteria of the contest, not the determination of skill level by the entrant. Judging criteria is a different conversation then the determination of skill level. Overall appearance of the pen does play a factor when it comes to judging the completed pens. The entrant would want to have a nice looking blank with good form, fit and finish.

As to what contest that pen should be judged in needs to be decided by an entrant's self assessment of his ability to obtain the form, fit and finish required to compete at the level he strives for. Once that is decided, then he plans his pen and decides what to materials to use.

Simply put, using an awesome blank does not make one and advanced pen turner.
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
The issue I am speaking about is where an entrant should place himself, and what factors should he consider when making that decision. That decision is, or should be, based upon the entrants self assessment of his own skills. The quality of the kit he uses, the complexity of the blank he uses, does not play into the decision. What he feels capable of doing with the kit, the blank, does go into the decision.


That is how you see it.

Ed (and I) see it as "where does the pen I plan to make, or the picture I want to take, fit".
 
Unless I misunderstood you and Jonathon Ed S, believes and advocates that the use of one of Toni's blanks is an indicator of the entrants advanced skill. I do not believe that is the case.


Yes, you did misunderstand. Ed considers Toni's blanks an indicator of HER skills and is trying to find a way to display those skills within the rules of the IAP contests. It is well known that she is NOT a turner, and he was unclear whether he could turn the pen for her.
 
Short of creating a 'creative blanks' contest - which we do have the prizes to create - I think it's a can of worms and against the spirit of the turning contests to let a non-turning blank maker win on the merits of her blank, without having turned it at all...not in general, just for Pen Turning contests....

If we want to make a new contest, with 'artistic blank' as the parameters, then that's a different story.
 
I'm not proposing that we SHOULD, merely trying to clarify if that was our intent.

Seems the origin of this thread was that edstreet has lots of questions---so far, I believe many of them are still unanswered or answered in the negative. That's fine, but the questions suddenly don't look so "annoying" in nature---at least not to me.

Had he made entries, it appears they would be greeted with rejection, anyhow. So, why should he make the effort to enter, if he will just be disqualified??
 
Last edited:
ed4copies said:
.

Ed (and I) see it as "where does the pen I plan to make, or the picture I want to take, fit".
Click to expand...

Their are a lot of contests in the BASH of different shapes and sizes. Think of them as squares, rectangles & circles. It sounds like Ed (and you) are wanting to make a specific pen (or take a specific picture) that happens to be a triangle. Unfortunately there may not be a contest for a triangle. Yet he (or you) want to put that triangle into a square or try to change the shape if the square.

I had 2 pens that I started last month with the intent of entering them in different contests. Guess what, my ideas (and partially completed pens) don't fit the rules of the contest. Definitely bummed, but the rules are what they are and so I am trying to make something that now works within the rules.
 
Unlike your approach, we see no need to make the pen if it will not qualify. So, yes we might make triangles, but until you define your shape, it is unclear whether it is a circle or a square---you are only showing us one side, in that view, it is a line. The questions being asked are defining that line from the another perspective, clarifying what shape it was meant to be.
 
ed4copies said:
Then, continuing that logic, there is no contest that Toni could enter, since she is NOT a penmaker. (That makes sense to me---Just want to confirm BEFORE I talk with Ed).

Yet, her blanks CAN be subject matter for Ed to enter a photo contest, as long as he does not have any identifying text in the picture. (Which does NOT make sense to me, since everyone here knows Toni's roses---but I yield to the chairman's right to make a decision).
Click to expand...

We are not prohibiting Toni from entering any pen making contest. She can enter any pen making contest she feels comfortable entering. If she doesn't turn pens she probably doesn't want to enter a pen turning contest.

Now things are getting muddy. We have been talking about Advanced and Intermediate Pen Contests. Ed S. has stated to Jonathon that Toni's blanks belong in the Advanced class. If that is the case he is talking about a pen contest because there is he Advanced Photography contest.

Can Ed S. make a pen with one of Toni's blanks for Toni to enter into a pen making contest? Of course not. The person making the entry into a pen making contest has to be the one to have made the pen..

Can Ed S. make a pen with one of Toni's blanks and use that pen as the subject of a Pen Marketing Photo Contest? Of course he can. Many of the pens entered in the photo contests are made with blanks that the entrant obtained elsewhere.

Can Ed S. put logos, identifying features in the photo to make it recognizable as one of his photos? No.

Is everyone going to know that the photo he submits is of Toni's pen and be pretty sure that Ed S. took the photo? Probably, but there is nothing we can do about that. He just needs to make sure that he follows the rules like everyone else.
 
THANK YOU!!! I believe that answers the questions, which were asked to clarify the rules. I appreciate your (collective) help.
 
Final confirmation of one "yes" answer, since, so far all his plans do not qualify:
EdS CAN make a pen from one of Toni's blanks and enter it in the intermediate contest, as Ed's submission, or he could choose to put it in the advanced contest, as his submission. This is correct, right?
 
ed4copies said:
Final confirmation of one "yes" answer, since, so far all his plans do not qualify:
EdS CAN make a pen from one of Toni's blanks and enter it in the intermediate contest, as Ed's submission, or he could choose to put it in the advanced contest, as his submission. This is correct, right?
Click to expand...
I don't see any problem with EdS entering any contest with a pen made from one of Toni's blanks. If he in not allowed todo so, then no one could use any purchased blank because they did not make the blank.
 
We have casting contests now where you have to make the blank. The only addition wouLd be kitless from the blank you cast.
 
Sorry, I disagree about the kitless Mike.

Not all made blanks are cast in resin. There are a half dozen different versions of metal ones that I can think of off the top of my head alone...not to mention PC, non veneer shell, glass and who knows what else....
 
Last edited:
True I was only focused on the casting aspect I over looked the pc factor as well as the others. Im sure that After this year is over there will be some changes that will help define that. Tell Ed I need black ebonite.
 
ed4copies said:
Final confirmation of one "yes" answer, since, so far all his plans do not qualify:
EdS CAN make a pen from one of Toni's blanks and enter it in the intermediate contest, as Ed's submission, or he could choose to put it in the advanced contest, as his submission. This is correct, right?
Click to expand...

I would say yes.
 
why couldn't he enter any of them?

He couldn't be given credit for the merits of the blank, however, except as it pertains to the look of the finished product - so if it's a kit pen with a Toni blank, he'd likely get creamed, unless he's altering it in some way - but that's his decision.

Andrew
 
ed4copies said:
Final confirmation of one "yes" answer, since, so far all his plans do not qualify: EdS CAN make a pen from one of Toni's blanks and enter it in the intermediate contest, as Ed's submission, or he could choose to put it in the advanced contest, as his submission. This is correct, right?
Click to expand...

Yes

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
Monty said:
I don't see any problem with EdS entering any contest with a pen made from one of Toni's blanks. If he in not allowed todo so, then no one could use any purchased blank because they did not make the blank.
Click to expand...

There is no problem with EdS entering any contest with one of Tonis blanks What he wants to do is turn a pen with one of Tonis blanks and have Toni enter it in a pen contest.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
It's amazing how much fun and life one person can suck out of contest with "innocent" comments. I'm just glad he's not haunting my contest.

Ed
 
parklandturner said:
It's amazing how much fun and life one person can suck out of contest with "innocent" comments. I'm just glad he's not haunting my contest.

Ed
Click to expand...

I wouldn't make that public, or *SOMEONE* may stop trolling your contests for participants and start trolling other contests for trolls FOR your contest...:biggrin:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom