Quick question regarding glueing blanks

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TLowe2

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Does anyone use mineral spirits or acetone to clean the inside of their wood blanks before gluing the brass tubes in? I am about to glue up a handful of expensive woods for more fancy pen kits and figured I'd check if there were any input on this. I could also use compressed air. I always sand my brass tubes and use epoxy and have minimal issues but figured going the extra mile would be worth it when each one is so spendy.

Thanks!
 
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Although I have cleaned the inside of some blanks, I do it very rarely, with the emphasis on very, and then only on very oily woods such as cocobolo. I do however use denatured alcohol to clean the tubes after I sand them but before applying epoxy. When I do, quite often there is some kind of dark residue left behind on the paper towel.

Dave
 
If using epoxy, no need to clean the blank. Once a blank is turned there is no more stress on tube spinning in blank. Now it can not hurt to blow any dust out of it from drilling the holes. that is always a good practice because you want adhesive to adhere to solid material and not the dust. I always do that with any type blanks, acrylic and wood and metals.
 
IF one is concerned about expensive blanks, cleaning and wiping with acetone on the inside won't hurt, but the overall best is adhesive is epoxy. There is one other that will grab as effective as epoxy but it has a bit of learning curve and that is polyurethane / gorilla poly expanding glue.

Poly glue will expand and fill in ANY holes or spots between the tube and blank anywhere. The problem is that the tube needs to be taped in, but allow an opening for the glue to expand outward. Let it set over night. The purpose of taping the tube holes is that the expanding poly will sometimes "push" the tube out slowly before it sets. Also, if there are holes or spaces on segments, the poly can expand through.

There are a few that hate poly and say that it is unnecessary, but to each his own. Poly works 100% inside between the tube and blank and if you ever had poly on your hand, you know how hard it is to get off. It works that hard in every space inside too.

That said, I use epoxy on 90% of my blanks, but do use Poly on a few that I am concerned for their integrity when turning.
 
leehljp said:
IF one is concerned about expensive blanks, cleaning and wiping with acetone on the inside won't hurt, but the overall best is adhesive is epoxy. There is one other that will grab as effective as epoxy but it has a bit of learning curve and that is polyurethane / gorilla poly expanding glue.

Poly glue will expand and fill in ANY holes or spots between the tube and blank anywhere. The problem is that the tube needs to be taped in, but allow an opening for the glue to expand outward. Let it set over night. The purpose of taping the tube holes is that the expanding poly will sometimes "push" the tube out slowly before it sets. Also, if there are holes or spaces on segments, the poly can expand through.

There are a few that hate poly and say that it is unnecessary, but to each his own. Poly works 100% inside between the tube and blank and if you ever had poly on your hand, you know how hard it is to get off. It works that hard in every space inside too.

That said, I use epoxy on 90% of my blanks, but do use Poly on a few that I am concerned for their integrity when turning.
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The Gorrilla Glue Non-Expanding glue is a good alternative to the expanding style foam. I've tested it on a number of blanks and so far, no issues. My preference remains epoxy, but liking the results from the non-expanding polyurethane glue so far.

As for cleaning a blank - I clean all of them with denatured alcohol inside and out before I glue or finish. It's a simple quick step than can only help, so why not. I soak a cotton swab on a wood stick (from Harbor Freight) and clean inside the tubes then outside quickly and let dry for 5 minutes. I especially clean 3D printed items (filament printing, not resin) with DNA before attempting to cast or glue them, as suggested by some folks here, as the printing process seems to leave some sort of residue on the exterior of the plastic that interferes with the glue process.
 
I have only found cleaning the blank internally with Thinners was necessary with very oily wood , specifically Lignum Vitae . Then again that's the only wood I've found , so far , that had so much oil in it the hole had to be reamed 0.1mm larger than the tube as it closed down after drilling, repeatedly!!!

This is with wood that I know is at least 80 years old ( my grandfathers old crown bowling ball donated the wood ) . The oil content is STILL incredible .
 
I have never treated or wiped the inside of the hole on any type of wood blank with anything. I used to use the Gorilla expanding glue and never had a problem with it, but recently started using the Gorilla clear and am happy with that so far.

NJturner said:
liking the results from the non-expanding polyurethane glue so far.
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Are you also using the stuff labeled Gorilla Clear? If it keeps working as well for me as it has so far, I don't see any need to use multiple types depending on the blank material.
 
sorcerertd said:
I have never treated or wiped the inside of the hole on any type of wood blank with anything. I used to use the Gorilla expanding glue and never had a problem with it, but recently started using the Gorilla clear and am happy with that so far.


Are you also using the stuff labeled Gorilla Clear? If it keeps working as well for me as it has so far, I don't see any need to use multiple types depending on the blank material.
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Yes - Gorilla Glue Clear. I am pretty impressed with it so far as well. Seems to work with resins, wood, and metal all equally well. I wet stuff with water before gluing to add the moisture it needs for curing which I'm not sure of consistency with resins or metals which shed the water, but so far no issues. I prefer epoxy for setting tubes, but been using the Gorilla glue a bit more, but it seems to have a very short shelf life. I've grabbed the bottle to use after a bit and it was hardened in the bottle way quicker than I thought it should have.
 
NJturner said:
Yes - Gorilla Glue Clear. I am pretty impressed with it so far as well. Seems to work with resins, wood, and metal all equally well. I wet stuff with water before gluing to add the moisture it needs for curing which I'm not sure of consistency with resins or metals which shed the water, but so far no issues. I prefer epoxy for setting tubes, but been using the Gorilla glue a bit more, but it seems to have a very short shelf life. I've grabbed the bottle to use after a bit and it was hardened in the bottle way quicker than I thought it should have.
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Gorilla Glue Clear is non-expanding, but it does not do what the "expanding" glue does.

While I am not convinced that GG Clear is as strong as epoxy. That said, "Expanding" GG (polyurethane) does something that non-expanding can't do - fill in air pockets between the tube and blank. If you haven't turned down a blown out blank and see the areas that had full (or did NOT have) adhesive contact between the tube and blank, you might be surprised at the areas that do not have full contact over the entirety of the blank/tube area. This is where polyurethane shines it expands into ALL pockets of air. JohnT says he has a foolproof method of getting epoxy in so that there are little or no air pockets. He is far more dexterous than I am, so I can't argue with his method. So I make up my lack of skill - with expanding poly on occasion when I need 100% fill on a delicate blank/tube. Even if there are pockets of air when using epoxy, the epoxy creates enough structural strength in and of itself that it makes up for any air pockets in most cases. Then there are the few times with delicate blanks, that one does now want to take ANY chances. For me, It is these times that I use poly.

I don't think poly has the structural strength of epoxy in and of itself, but the holding power over the total area between two spots (or the total area of the inside of a blank and outside of the tube) and everywhere in-between the two - are unequaled.

I don't remember ever having a blow out with epoxy but did several with CA.

One of these days, I am going to make three blanks and tubes with CA Medium, three with Epoxy, and three with GG Poly (expanding), then turn then blanks down to the glues/adhesives to see the air pockets. They are there!
 
leehljp said:
Gorilla Glue Clear is non-expanding, but it does not do what the "expanding" glue does.

While I am not convinced that GG Clear is as strong as epoxy. That said, "Expanding" GG (polyurethane) does something that non-expanding can't do - fill in air pockets between the tube and blank. If you haven't turned down a blown out blank and see the areas that had full (or did NOT have) adhesive contact between the tube and blank, you might be surprised at the areas that do not have full contact over the entirety of the blank/tube area. This is where polyurethane shines it expands into ALL pockets of air. JohnT says he has a foolproof method of getting epoxy in so that there are little or no air pockets. He is far more dexterous than I am, so I can't argue with his method. So I make up my lack of skill - with expanding poly on occasion when I need 100% fill on a delicate blank/tube. Even if there are pockets of air when using epoxy, the epoxy creates enough structural strength in and of itself that it makes up for any air pockets in most cases. Then there are the few times with delicate blanks, that one does now want to take ANY chances. For me, It is these times that I use poly.

I don't think poly has the structural strength of epoxy in and of itself, but the holding power over the total area between two spots (or the total area of the inside of a blank and outside of the tube) and everywhere in-between the two - are unequaled.

I don't remember ever having a blow out with epoxy but did several with CA.

One of these days, I am going to make three blanks and tubes with CA Medium, three with Epoxy, and three with GG Poly (expanding), then turn then blanks down to the glues/adhesives to see the air pockets. They are there!
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Hi Hank - Great response and reasons for your thoughts. I think the one thing that is the most important in any of these discussions as you point out are the user variables. The much-used saying 'your mileage may vary' is also true with gluing, as well as pretty much everything else we do when creating a piece. Depending on how well you prepare surfaces, how you apply the glue and quantities you use, methods for introducing the surfaces to be glued to each other, and how much stress you put on things once they are glued (and dried) during the act of turning them are all user introduced variables that we all deal with. I try and standardize my process for things, but nothing, especially me, is perfectly consistent and odd things often happen. I learn from my mistakes more than I do my successes, so the efforts are not totally wasted!

Kevin
 
Hank

interesting experiment to try . I can vouch for there being some air spaces even with epoxy and I am fairly thorough in my application method .

One tube that chipped away at the end I turned back to the tube and found a few air pockets. Not as many as I found with CA though .

Polyurethane works well for the reasons you state but I got fed up with the mess on my hands and also when tested in a different application I found it sheared easier than epoxy which was a pain. It's also worth noting that as it expands it can "expel the tubes" in some situations so tape over tube ends to hold them in the blank maybe advisable.

What ever works for you , as they say ! That's the great thing about advice you can learn from others experiences and views.
 
I, personally, use alcohol… any alcohol will do except Gin. Gin is gross. Jokes aside, I use DNA or isopropyl on all blanks. I also use a two part epoxy. CA doesn't cut it for me.

In the long run, you do you. What works for you, may not work for another.

Yes, 2 part epoxy takes longer to cure, but a clean blank and clean scuffed tube will give you far better success rate of a tube not coming loose in the future.
 
howsitwork said:
Hank

interesting experiment to try . I can vouch for there being some air spaces even with epoxy and I am fairly thorough in my application method .

One tube that chipped away at the end I turned back to the tube and found a few air pockets. Not as many as I found with CA though .

Polyurethane works well for the reasons you state but I got fed up with the mess on my hands and also when tested in a different application I found it sheared easier than epoxy which was a pain. It's also worth noting that as it expands it can "expel the tubes" in some situations so tape over tube ends to hold them in the blank maybe advisable.

What ever works for you , as they say ! That's the great thing about advice you can learn from others experiences and views.
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Yes, of course it does shear easier, but 1. with 100% contact due to the expansion and 2. a bit more flexibility/resilency and 3. strong hold (in the sense that it doesn't let go of hands OR the tube and blank) - shearing as in when turning it with the skew or scraper - is not a real factor in a tube/blank situation.

And I agree with you, it can expel the tubes. I thought I had mentioned it earlier, but if one knows the potential problems, one can avert it. I do not use poly often but in some, I do.

www.penturners.org

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.
www.penturners.org
I did not use poly on this one because I was not aware of poly glue back then (and they didn't have it in Japan at that time when I lived there.) But for a couple of similar segments later, I did. Poly holds equally 360° and when there is little integrity strength in blank itself, like the one above, poly works!
 
leehljp said:
Yes, of course it does shear easier, but 1. with 100% contact due to the expansion and 2. a bit more flexibility/resilency and 3. strong hold (in the sense that it doesn't let go of hands OR the tube and blank) - shearing as in when turning it with the skew or scraper - is not a real factor in a tube/blank situation.

And I agree with you, it can expel the tubes. I thought I had mentioned it earlier, but if one knows the potential problems, one can avert it. I do not use poly often but in some, I do.

www.penturners.org

Imported Photo from leehljp

Imported Photo from leehljp. Please edit title and description.
www.penturners.org
I did not use poly on this one because I was not aware of poly glue back then (and they didn't have it in Japan at that time when I lived there.) But for a couple of similar segments later, I did. Poly holds equally 360° and when there is little integrity strength in blank itself, like the one above, poly works!
Click to expand...
Oneother thing I forgot to mention, but you do allude to it somewhere previously, is polyurethane as it expands can displace laminated joints and will find any microscopic holes to extrude through ! As I found to my surprise returning to a blank left overnight to see " warts and all " cos that's what the little cream extrusions looked like. When turned it looked OK butIknew the faults were there ( which is kind of worse if you know what I mean ).

It certainly has its uses but , is not my own personal favourite choice in the tube securing stakes.

I do greatly admire that pen though. Those EVEN fine lines take a lot of careful preparation to achieve, well done
 
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