Skye
Member
I thought that was what a Pen Wizard did!
Pontification: When does something stop being "handmade"?
- Thread starter GouletPens
- Start date
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I thought that was what a Pen Wizard did!
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wdcav1952
Activities Manager Emeritus
Can we start the "how many angels can dance of the head of a pen" debate now? It makes about as much sense as this topic IMHO. :frown:
BTW, the angels cannot be Southern Baptist Angels. :biggrin:
BTW, the angels cannot be Southern Baptist Angels. :biggrin:
M
Mudder
Guest
nava1uni
Member
I have actually found this discussion interesting. I also make handmade leather products. I cut the hides, hand tool them, hand sew them, dye and finish them. I use rivets, buckles, snaps and tool all made out of metal by someone else, but I consider these items to be hand made. In much the same way that I consider the pens and other items I design and make to be hand made. As several others have stated it is what you and the customer, if they exist in your world, decide whether it is handmade or not.
wolftat
Product Reviews Manager
Don't take anything posted here personal, it wasn't meant that way and it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. We can call anything anything, and it is okay with me. There are way more important things in life than what we choose to call something. I may choose to call my pens "chicken toes" from now on just for the sake of a name.
I'm stealing that name, Neil! Chicken Toe Baron in spalted maple - has a ring to it, don't you think?
nwcatman
Member
i have "made" some of these knives too. when the people ask if i made em or not i say no, i put em together from a kit. and w/out fail i get "so you made em". and i say no, i assembled em. and then i get "so you made em". think next time i will just say i found em.
VisExp
Member
I think the vision of the creator is the most important thing. I get a lot of satisfaction from visualizing the final product and then working back wards to see how I can bring that vision into reality using the tools and materials at my disposal.
As far as what those tools are I don't really care much. Whether it is a router bit following a template, a scroll saw blade following a cut line on a pattern or a CNC router.
All diamonds have a flaw of some sorts. The closer to flawless a diamond is, the higher its value. Perhaps that is the same with hand made? While a laser engraved scrimshaw can easily approach flawless, doing so with a scratch awl is less likely, and so a higher value could be given to the artist who is able to craft a flawless design using a scratch awl. However this still does not take away the final vision which ultimately will set the value.
To many degrees we all use an automated process in making our pens. Isn't a set of bushings mounted on a mandrel just a very crude form of a CNC router?
As far as what those tools are I don't really care much. Whether it is a router bit following a template, a scroll saw blade following a cut line on a pattern or a CNC router.
All diamonds have a flaw of some sorts. The closer to flawless a diamond is, the higher its value. Perhaps that is the same with hand made? While a laser engraved scrimshaw can easily approach flawless, doing so with a scratch awl is less likely, and so a higher value could be given to the artist who is able to craft a flawless design using a scratch awl. However this still does not take away the final vision which ultimately will set the value.
To many degrees we all use an automated process in making our pens. Isn't a set of bushings mounted on a mandrel just a very crude form of a CNC router?
Daniel
Member
Here is another angle on the subject that includes nothing about how much of your hands you used in making it. But it might apply. In the past three weeks or so I have been trading e-mails with a fella back east. He had seen my web site and liked my pens. He wanted something "Special" for Christmas gifts but was really having a hard time sorting his way through my web site. He did say he wanted a gel rollerball in a slim but not to slim of a pen. he wanted one Gold and One silver. He liked the Statesaman and Gent pens but thought they might be to big. He needed something that could be carried wrote like a rollerball and was not the average ordinary pen.
well for any of us that is pretty easy so I pointed him at the jr's. spend considerable time explaining the difference in Rollerballs and Gel ink. the pluses and minuses of a genuine rollerball and the issue of the cap etc. In short he was able to take a week or so and look again at my site with a fresh knowledge of what he was looking for.
when he got back to me he was much more certain of what he wanted. the Jr. Gent in 10k and Ti Gold but he also mentioned he wanted a Gold Pen in Amboyna Burl, and Silver pen in Blackwood. I quickly caught the problem in his selection and corrected it for him. I not only insured that he would get his Gold and Silver pen. I upgraded it at no extra cost to a Ti Gold Jr. Gent, and a Rhodium Jr. Gent.
I have one extremely happy customer that has a very clear since that I am hands on. He has mentioned it more than once. I have found in many things I have done that just hearing your customer does more than anything to keep them a customer. I once looked at a yard for a woman who was getting it landscaped. she walked me around and described to me everything she was having done (I was just going to build her a deck, she had another contractor doing the landscaping) a few weeks later when I was starting the deck I noticed she did not really look all that happy. the landscaper was there with all his tractors and what not. I walked into her back yard, took a second or two to look around and turned to her with real surprise in my voice and said "This is not what you wanted' She sort of sighed and said I know but this and that and the other things was this long list of excuses the contractor had for it being done the way it had been. I talked to her about what she wanted for about 5 minutes describing how I had expected it to look and how it could have been done that way etc. She shocked half the life out of me when she looked at me and said "Can you still do that" and I said yes. she turned to her landscaper right there and then and fired him. I had just landed a $26,000 side job. to this day that lady will not let anyone but me touch her house, yard or fences. she also has the Butterfly garden she had dreamed of her entire life.
well for any of us that is pretty easy so I pointed him at the jr's. spend considerable time explaining the difference in Rollerballs and Gel ink. the pluses and minuses of a genuine rollerball and the issue of the cap etc. In short he was able to take a week or so and look again at my site with a fresh knowledge of what he was looking for.
when he got back to me he was much more certain of what he wanted. the Jr. Gent in 10k and Ti Gold but he also mentioned he wanted a Gold Pen in Amboyna Burl, and Silver pen in Blackwood. I quickly caught the problem in his selection and corrected it for him. I not only insured that he would get his Gold and Silver pen. I upgraded it at no extra cost to a Ti Gold Jr. Gent, and a Rhodium Jr. Gent.
I have one extremely happy customer that has a very clear since that I am hands on. He has mentioned it more than once. I have found in many things I have done that just hearing your customer does more than anything to keep them a customer. I once looked at a yard for a woman who was getting it landscaped. she walked me around and described to me everything she was having done (I was just going to build her a deck, she had another contractor doing the landscaping) a few weeks later when I was starting the deck I noticed she did not really look all that happy. the landscaper was there with all his tractors and what not. I walked into her back yard, took a second or two to look around and turned to her with real surprise in my voice and said "This is not what you wanted' She sort of sighed and said I know but this and that and the other things was this long list of excuses the contractor had for it being done the way it had been. I talked to her about what she wanted for about 5 minutes describing how I had expected it to look and how it could have been done that way etc. She shocked half the life out of me when she looked at me and said "Can you still do that" and I said yes. she turned to her landscaper right there and then and fired him. I had just landed a $26,000 side job. to this day that lady will not let anyone but me touch her house, yard or fences. she also has the Butterfly garden she had dreamed of her entire life.
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wolftat
Product Reviews Manager
I knew I should have copyrighted that name.:biggrin:I'm stealing that name, Neil! Chicken Toe Baron in spalted maple - has a ring to it, don't you think?