Political Discussions?

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Should political discussions be allowed at penturners.org?

  • YES - In the Casual Conversation forum

    Votes: 18 10.3%

  • YES - In a separate opt-in forum

    Votes: 50 28.6%

  • NO

    Votes: 107 61.1%
  • Total voters
    175
  • Poll closed .
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I voted no. I have seen threads wander down those paths and people start to say their opinions then insult anyone who disagrees with them. Many years ago I went to a regional student convention for christian schools. We were strictly forbidden from talking about religion because the topic usually gets heated and nobody is willing to change their mind.
I do pay attention to politics. I'm not a citizen so I can't vote. I do not discuss politics at work because like religion people have strong opinions. I don't see how the conversation would stay civil.
 
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I voted no, I've already seen one good friend here stop coming because their were political opinions creeping into the discussions. I can only see this as devisive in the long run.
 
nava1uni said:
" However, they can also be divisive and distracting unless everyone involved can bring to the discussion a tolerance for other opinions, and personal respect for the people with different ideas."

Only if this statement can be honored and without anger at the difference of opinions.
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History is rife with evidence that it can't happen.
.. even BEFORE online forums.
 
I vote no. I've been around here quite awhile. I love this place as a penturning place. I understand the other (non penmaking)forums help us develop a sense of community and espri de corp but, I don't see your comment below happening regarding politics. Let's keep politics (and religion) where they belong. I have strong feeling and convistions about both but there are other places I can share those feelings and convictions. But, I'm just one vote.
Do a good turn daily!
Don


jeff said:
...unless everyone involved can bring to the discussion a tolerance for other opinions, and personal respect for the people with different ideas.
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I voted no. Even in an opt in forum, we are all people. Not only do people have differing opinions on such things as politics (and religion), many tend to be very passionate about those opinions (right, wrong or indifferent). That said, a topic of converstion could not help but lead to name calling, or someone getting his or her panties in a bunch over something someone else wrote.

I see no good coming from it what so ever. Me, I have thick skin and while a snide comment might **** me off, I'd get over it. It's already happened on this forum a number of times (though not recently). Others do not seem to have that ability. Call me what ever you like, but note that I feel free to consider the source, if you get my drift. I'm sorry guys, I just don't see the benefit. But that's me.
 
philipf said:
Don't we have enough hate and discontent going on all over the place without contaminating this site? I bailed out of WOW for the political leftist views that would not be quiet. I do not want to bail out of IAP! Philip, Retired Admiral
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A sincere "Thank-you" for your career!!
 
Unfortunately, politics is seeping into our hobby through legislation, and probably will be getting more involved with the concern over deforestation and forest preservation. Not that I suspect any of our input would alter this situation BUT, it is going to become a political football which will to some extent impact our pen turning, so I vote yes.
 
I think if you do it, and Opt-in format wherein the default is opted-out works best.
Too many individuals have shown they're incapable of having a reasoned discussion about things
(anything: politics, economics, religion, finishing :rolleyes:, et al.) when they disagree with the posted thought.

I'd add that with an Opt-in participation requirement those who don't want it are unaffected.
 
I too am against the political discussions. While I have no problems discussing politics in person and remaining friends with those I disagree with. I have found it is much more difficult doing that on a board. In person if you make a statement that is misunderstood you can recognize and correct the error much sooner. Online by the time you find it out it is usually too late to clarify.

If you must have a political discussion forum make sure it is one that is easily blocked as I for one will be avoiding it like the plague. Also do not allow any references or links to the subforum in any other forum.


I prefer the current misconceptions I have that the people on this site are as intelligent as me and do not want them changed by a political discussion:biggrin:
 
Wow...an opt in forum where people who getted pissed at others when disagreements get hot,.. and will suddenly jump to another forum and shake (virtual) hands and all will be well and best of friends again...well, untill they both go back to the opt in forum where they can flame each other till asbestos jackets melt...sure that'll work...besides i think republicans should pay more for a pen than democrats anyway...

I vote no..if you are keeping count.
 
penhead said:
Wow...an opt in forum where people who getted pissed at others when disagreements get hot,.. and will suddenly jump to another forum and shake (virtual) hands and all will be well and best of friends again...well, untill they both go back to the opt in forum where they can flame each other till asbestos jackets melt...sure that'll work...besides i think republicans should pay more for a pen than democrats anyway...

I vote no..if you are keeping count.
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Now, see, our first area of AGREEMENT!!!

I too believe both Republicans and Democrats should PAY for my pens!!!!!!
 
I am beginning to agree with not having a political forum but I am puzzled by all of the "pen turning only" comments I am seeing. If that were the case, then what would be the point of the casual forum. I joined this forum for more then just information, I joined for friendships and networking. If I wanted just pen turning information I could have read books and watched videos!
 
rjwolfe3 said:
I am beginning to agree with not having a political forum but I am puzzled by all of the "pen turning only" comments I am seeing. If that were the case, then what would be the point of the casual forum. I joined this forum for more then just information, I joined for friendships and networking. If I wanted just pen turning information I could have read books and watched videos!
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Exactly..it's always a puzzlement to me when people chime in on casual conversation posts asking what it has to do with pen turning.

The Headline of the casual conversation forum says:

Casual Conversation Off-topic, general chat

I've also noticed it only happens on posts where people disagree, not on posts where people are bragging on themselves/friends/family or prayer requests or anything else. It's like people are ok having the casual conversation forum as long as everyone agrees and plays nice, but life just isn't like that.
 
A couple of years ago I sold my business and the most important thing I tried to teach the man that bought it is you NEVER discuss politics or religion with your customers as that is the quickest way to loose them. Many people have strong feelings one way or another and with a group this large there is going to be some some hard feelings if we open it up to this type of discussion. I would prefer that everyone stay friends and leave politics out of it so I have to vote NO!!
 
I voted "No" for the following reasons:

a. Past history of IAP clearly demonstrates that we fail miserably when trying to separate "politics" from "religion". For many Americans, politics is a religion . . and . . . our religion has become political. The two have become intertwined in our daily lives.

b. As Lou stated earlier, the "I" in IAP stands for International. Our political discussions will most certainly be focused on politics in the US.

c. The IAP Mission Statement reads as follows:
"The goal of the IAP is to give pen makers a place to enhance their skills, share experiences, and promote the art of pen making."

In my opinion, having a forum on politics, even if it is an "opt in" feature, will only serve to divide us . . . heavily moderated or not. Consider our past history in IAP. Look at how political comments in posts have had a negative effect already . . . and driven members away (including me).

And, finally . . . efforts would be better served by putting energy into the advancement of penmaking. Having a forum on politics will likely consume negative energy that can be better spent in a positive manner on the fulfillment of IAP's Mission Statement.

Just my thoughts . . .
 
I voted NO. It is too easy for people to forget how to be civil, and I have seen good life long friends not speak to each other for years over a discussion of politics and/or religion. I still think it owuld be best to leave things just the way they are. It has worked pretty well so far, and I have been blessed with some good friends on the IAP and I know I have a few well, lets just say not so good friends.

The IAP has responded well to peoples needs and has been very generous in helping someone who truly needs help. I think that if political or religious threads were allowed it would cool somes desire to help someone else who may differ with their viewpoint.

If it ain't broke, it don't nedd fixing!!
 
I can't make the decision for you, Jeff, but one would have to simply answer this question: Would such a forum enhance or detract from this wonderful website?
Upon reading all the comment here this morning, it seems the way is clear.
 
jleiwig said:
I've also noticed it only happens on posts where people disagree, not on posts where people are bragging on themselves/friends/family or prayer requests or anything else. It's like people are ok having the casual conversation forum as long as everyone agrees and plays nice, but life just isn't like that.
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I think that's precisely the point. People aren't likely to start flaming each other and calling names in a post about Aunt May's pumpkin pie. A post about the health care legislation, however, is very obviously going to lead to exactly such posts. So what is gained from having a forum to post such topics? It looks like more than a majority who have posted to this thread think that nothing is gained from it, and I agree.
 
jkeithrussell said:
I think that's precisely the point. People aren't likely to start flaming each other and calling names in a post about Aunt May's pumpkin pie. A post about the health care legislation, however, is very obviously going to lead to exactly such posts. So what is gained from having a forum to post such topics? It looks like more than a majority who have posted to this thread think that nothing is gained from it, and I agree.
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Taken completely out of context, but I was referring to the people who are asking "What does it have to do with penturning?" about Jeff's request for feedback on politics.

It's the same people who make the same "What does it have to do with penturning?" comments in other volatile threads, but yet they don't do it in any other type of threads as I mentioned above.

I mean if I went into any thread about asking for prayers for a loved one and asked "What does it have to do with penturning?", I'd be labeled a heretic and flamed to dust for being insensitive and mean.

It just ticks me off. If your going to make that type of comment in one type of post, either don't make it at all, or make it in ALL posts in the casual conversation forum.....that's all I'm saying....regardless of it being a political post in nature or any other type of post in this forum. :rolleyes:
 
You also have to remember that there is a LOT of misinformation out there from all sides. Is this really the place that we want to try to educate people on that (especially when some, maybe not those here, will refuse to believe it regardless).
 
It seems like it is just a babysitting service to not have that forum. People need to learn how not to click on a subject that may be bothersome to them for example. I dont do cigar pens yet so I generally do not follow those threads I may look at the pics or read a tutorial but I dont respond because it is of no interest to me now. I find if you keep people from subjects that they may have feeling about you are censoring them but it is a websight and I will go with the webmasters choice. Those that vote no should "opt out" let those that have thicker skin that want to discuss things do so.
My political and religious views are indeed mine and just because you dont agree that is fine we can agree to disagree!! Sure I agree topics get heated so what you dont like it "opt out" seems pretty simple. It is a little like asking who wants pumpkin pie who wants apple oh well the apple is wanted more so no pumpkin pie. Unless it is a moderation hardship I think it should be allowed, it would be a place for responsible adults who can debate in a friendly mannor..Dunno just my .02
 
snyiper said:
My political and religious views are indeed mine and just because you dont agree that is fine we can agree to disagree!! Sure I agree topics get heated so what you dont like it "opt out" seems pretty simple. It is a little like asking who wants pumpkin pie who wants apple oh well the apple is wanted more so no pumpkin pie. Unless it is a moderation hardship I think it should be allowed, it would be a place for responsible adults who can debate in a friendly mannor..Dunno just my .02
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I think a more accurate analogy would be that you're a dinner guest at
the Pumpkin Pie Factory and someone brings apple pie and has a food fight.

Perhaps it would be easier to re-phrase the question:
"Should we change the essential nature of Penturner.org to allow
political discussions?"

Political discussions already pollute other threads and discussion can
become heated.. and that's now, while they're not even allowed. I can
only imagine what it will be like if the forums open up. I can't believe that
these discussions will limit themselves to certain threads.

I guess the "Opt-Out" button will read "Delete Membership"
 
I fear that animosty born in the political forum(s) might spill over into the rest of them, regardless of content.

For example, Let's say that a heated debate between diametrically opposed left and right wing loons erupts in the approved forum. It degenerates into a name calling and value slamming circus, polarizes the participants and poisons people's perceptions of one-another (how 'bout that alliteration?). The topic of discussion might well remain in the approved fora however the ill feelings will be carried forth by some (no, not everyone is able to rise above base human nature) and will colour future opinions, recommendations of vendors, etc., etc.

Yes, people who don't want to participate can simply avoid the circus, but we cannot all avoid the envenomed atmosphere that WILL result.

This place is politics and religion free. I say let's keep it that way.

Cheers!

Gary
 
I thank you all for the votes and your comments.

I think you've provided plenty of data for us to chew on.

Don't hold your breath waiting for political discussions to ensue. :wink:
 
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