On the concept of changing signature lines

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The problem with beliefs are that they are emotional. Anytime you deal with emotions, someone is going to offended.

As I have tried to explain, and Greg hit on it a little, my signature is something I believe. It is not and was not written as an attack. However, since some disagree with it, they want perceive it as an attack and present it the same way in an attempt to stifle or remove it.

Unless a signature is blatantly obscene or a blatant attack, everything should be left as is.
 
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Skye said:
A conflicting religious signature would be a positive statement from a Wiccan, a Buddhist, a Muslim, Scientologist, a Christian. They can live side by side with a little common courtesy.
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Hmmm,

If I change my signature to "Radical Muslims are da bomb" would that be considered offensive?

Any problems with this? "Jesus saves, passes to Moses, shoots...SCORES!"

or this? "When religion ruled the world they called it the Dark Ages"
 
Mudder said:
Hmmm,

If I change my signature to "Radical Muslims are da bomb" would that be considered offensive?

Any problems with this? "Jesus saves, passes to Moses, shoots...SCORES!"

or this? "When religion ruled the world they called it the Dark Ages"
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How about

"Some believe gods created man in their image,
Others believe man created gods in their image."
 
Over the last few hours I've received dozens of PMs.

About half say, "If you ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."
The other half say, "If you don't ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."

This is really not fun.
 
Jeff , you have my deepest sympathy . This whole debate is just dumb . I hate to say it because I love my signature but you might as well get rid of ALL signatures before you loose your mind . Once again stupidity will force everyone to loose .
 
jeff said:
Over the last few hours I've received dozens of PMs.

About half say, "If you ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."
The other half say, "If you don't ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."

This is really not fun.
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One of the few times I don't envy you Jeff.

I am on the camp of "I hope you don't ban religion" but won't threaten to leave.

If and when the (unfortunate) time comes, I will just leave w/o saying anything. :biggrin::redface:
 
ldb2000 said:
Jeff , you have my deepest sympathy . This whole debate is just dumb . I hate to say it because I love my signature but you might as well get rid of ALL signatures before you loose your mind . Once again stupidity will force everyone to loose .
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Sad part is...if Jeff does that, then they (whoever they are) wins once again.

I am not the combatant type but sometimes you have to draw the line and take a stand for what is "right" or "better" for the majority. Note that it may be against what I believe.
 
Jeff, I for one could care less about baning or not baning, how would it be if all signatures were just that, your name,city,state and if you have a PEN site a link. No funny sayings, no religious, nothing but what
i said above.
jeff said:
Over the last few hours I've received dozens of PMs.

About half say, "If you ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."
The other half say, "If you don't ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."

This is really not fun.
Click to expand...
 
jeff said:
Over the last few hours I've received dozens of PMs.

About half say, "If you ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."
The other half say, "If you don't ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."
Click to expand...

I'm glad I'm not a site owner; I don't handle ultimatums well.

I wouldn't give anyone the choice of whether or not they leave.
This is not their site, it is not a democracy, and your decisions aren't
up for debate.
 
Dario , at this point it don't matter who wins , this "well if I can't have it my way , I'm leaving" attitude is absolutely ridiculous . This is a penturning forum and this kind of childish behavior has no place here . Jeff , whatever you decide will be fine with me and maybe we can get back to what we came here for ....PENTURNING .
 
All or nothing. Anything in between is left open for interpretation or manipulation.


Next in line is avatars.
 
How would just Name, City, State and a link to a PEN web-site be left open to interpretation or manipulation?
cozee said:
All or nothing. Anything in between is left open for interpretation or manipulation.


Next in line is avatars.
Click to expand...
 
Unfortunately Roy there are some people that are offended by us putting links to our websites because they say that we are marketing that way.

Please note that I am not offended by anything except maybe that PINK UNIFORM that I saw.:eek::eek::eek::eek::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
 
All of you have way too much time on your hands, or it must be too cold in your shops to do any turning.

I found this site a few months ago, and it seems I would spend a couple of hours at a time looking and learning. Then I went away for a while, as it seemed each time I logged on there was a gang bang going on bashing someone.

Here I am again, and there is all sorts of stuff at the top when I hit "New Posts" not even related to pen turning.

One of Mrplace's tag lines is 100% on the money - more wars caused in the name of religion, no matter what your religious preference (or not) may be. Christians against Jews, Jews against Muslims, Muslims against non-Muslims, all religions against pagans, and you could fill a book. However, this has gone beyond a simple tag line, but really a lot of people wanting to roll up their sleeves and fight someone within the anonymity of the Internet.

I consider myself a fairly religious person; I do, however, have more faults than good qualities, but I work on it. One thing I have found out over the years is, generally speaking of course, if someone has their mind made up one way or the other you're not going to convince them otherwise unless there is some kind of epiphany (good or bad) that could sway their decision.

On one hand, you have the liberal atheists who want to shout it out how everyone else is wrong and force their way of thinking on you (remember the late Madeline Murray O'Hair from Austin), to other atheists who really don't give a crap what you think as long as you leave them alone. On the other side of the equation, you have have aggressive members of other religions doing the same, but at the other end of the spectrum you have other members of <insert religious preference here> who also don't give a crap as long as you leave them alone.

I visit this site because I want to learn more about my craft, ooh and ahh over your pictures of pens and say "how did he/she do that" and generally become a better woodworker in my precious free time. If I wanted to engage in a religious debate, or go bash someone in a faceless public forum I will spend my time at those sites as appropriate.

I do care about Mrplace's pen turning contributions, as I want to see what others can create; I really don't care to see an endless and pointless waste of time plowing through to see if a post is pen-turning or dogpile related on something that has been debated over and over before recorded history.

As a Christian, I do care Mrplace is an announced atheist, but there is not much I can do about it except lead my life as an example. If, when he is on the other side of the dirt and comes to the conclusion he was wrong, there is not much he will be able to do about it at that time. If, when I am on the other side of the dirt and I am wrong I'll never know - except I will have departed knowing I led my life to the fullest and, hopefully, was a good example to most of those I touched (like others, I do have regrets).

On a lighter note, since I am also an avowed capitalist, is there anything wrong with my current tagline?

Regards,

Michael in the Houston suburbs
 
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Hell than just name rank and serial #. In other words signature only : Name unless your name is Dante or Jesus.
rjwolfe3 said:
Unfortunately Roy there are some people that are offended by us putting links to our websites because they say that we are marketing that way.

Please note that I am not offended by anything except maybe that PINK UNIFORM that I saw.:eek::eek::eek::eek::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
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jeff said:
Over the last few hours I've received dozens of PMs.

About half say, "If you ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."
The other half say, "If you don't ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."

This is really not fun.
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I say keep them.

It's like a guy with too many beers in him. The true self comes out.

If someone's going to put something stupid in their sig, they're only giving you an insight into who they are. If we like it or not, it's better to know.

Besides, as was said before:

off.jpg


If you can't stand to see it, TURN THE SIGNATURE OPTION OFF!

It's not fair to hand Jeff an ultimatum if you have a perfect solution you're not utilizing!
 
All of this reminds me of a Hank Williams song "Mind your own Business" We would be alot better of if we went by this...........This issue has evolved into something silly...
 
Signatures

Bye the Lord Thundering Jesus, I'm amazed with all the so called discussion back and forth, having been in the merchant navy for many years and traveled all over the world. And coming to settle in Canada, it is amazing that the people on this side of the pound are bickering about a signature that might or moght not have religious overtones. Take a step back people and reflect upon this, only in a free democracy are you allowed to question this and broadcast it. In some of the countries I have been you would and will be prosecuted or worse.
And yes many a person and peoples have undergone terror and hardship and persecution in the name of religion and that is a fact. My thought on this is: loosen up be greatful and thankful for what you have and where you live as well in America as Canada at least you have these freedoms to disagree and don't get hurt for it. So I hope that everyone in this group will be tolerant of their peers and refrain from further sniping at each other.
Just my thoughts.
Helgi
 
Have been following this debate, and the previous debate in the poll thread (for the record: yes I voted, took the "I don't care one way or the other" option).

This debate is not only going on on this forum, it is also going on in Australia after the British Humanist Association's advertising campaign on London buses motivated the Atheist Foundation in Australia to try and do the same thing.
However they were knocked back by the owners of the public transport system; reason: "It might offend people". Heaven forbid!
 
Gagler said:
On a lighter note, since I am also an avowed capitalist, is there anything wrong with my current tagline?

Regards,

Michael in the Houston suburbs
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Actually, Michael, yes there is something wrong with your signature line, at least on my monitor at 1280 x 1024! You are allowed 5 lines of text including spaces. Yours is 7!:biggrin:
 
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As a Baptist Minister of Education I have felt like I should post something on this thread. And...now that I have...I feel better!
 
jeff said:
Over the last few hours I've received dozens of PMs.

About half say, "If you ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."
The other half say, "If you don't ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."

This is really not fun.
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I'm sorry to hear this caused you so much grief Jeff.

Perhaps you should have heeded the politicians' saying: "Never ask a question to which you don't already know the answer".

FWIW, I would suggest leaving things as they are, those that don't want to see religious signatures can switch signatures off. To those that want to leave over such a trivial issue I would say, sleep on it - usually things are much brighter in the morning.
 
jeff said:
Over the last few hours I've received dozens of PMs.

About half say, "If you ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."
The other half say, "If you don't ban religious signatures, I'm leaving."

This is really not fun.
Click to expand...

Jeff,

To me, the answer is "If you don't like my decision and choose to leave, we will miss you."
 
rjwolfe3 said:
Unfortunately Roy there are some people that are offended by us putting links to our websites because they say that we are marketing that way.

Please note that I am not offended by anything except maybe that PINK UNIFORM that I saw.:eek::eek::eek::eek::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
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Hey, I resemble that remark!!!! :redface:
 
Well, I guess it's my turn to step up to the plate. In an effort to avoid rambling, I'll get right to my points:

1. In my opinion, the AUP ("Discussions of politics and religion are not allowed") seems to be incongruent with the policy of allowing Biblical quotes in signature lines. My feeling is that signature lines are often used to make religious statements (and sometimes political, for example: "Annoy a liberal, get a job!"). There seems to be little difference between making a religious statement in a signature line and making a post about religion.

If we're going to allow Biblical quotes in signature lines, then why not allow discussions of a religious nature?


2. I feel that certain members use signature line Biblical quotes as a form of religious bullying. For example, I've seen signature lines with the Biblical quotes in a larger, bold font .... which I interpret to be almost the same as posting in all uppercase letters. "QUIT YELLING!"


3. I understand perfectly well what mrplace is stating. While I have a different view of religion than he does, I happen to agree with the points that he has presented. I thought he did an excellent job of articulating his position.


4. I object to certain members who insist on making asinine comments in their posts that have nothing to do with politics but find a way to weasel in negative comments about political beliefs ..... for example, making derogatory remarks about our President's ethnicity.

In short, we should expect others in IAP to treat us as we treat them ... with respect and dignity.
 
Whatever we beleive or not in a religon, when your nuckel hit the chuck or your thum just go too far on the bandsaw, we all make the same prayer..... well at least we all have religious word coming out of our mouth !!!!
So we are not that different :)
 
arioux said:
Whatever we beleive or not in a religon, when your nuckel hit the chuck or your thum just go too far on the bandsaw, we all make the same prayer..... well at least we all have religious word coming out of our mouth !!!!
So we are not that different :)
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Hmmm, I may be guilty of that once in a while. I do know for the most part though, that I release obscenities that can get you arrested in some states :rolleyes: Sometimes I think I make up new words without thought
 
Jeff, I personally am not going to leave regardless of your decision. I would encourage the others, on all sides, to be tolerant and to stick around regardless of the outcome.

I did not start this debate, and only responded because I felt the topic was being skewed in one direction, and that because some choose to keep their belief, or lack of belief, to their self, a decision would be made thinking that those who where posting represented the majority.

I felt I should post to voice a position that was not being considered. I did not do it with the intention of starting a flame war, or to specifically attack any belief. I am only wanting equality for all involved, and the same consideration provided to myself and others who do not share in religious beliefs, the same opportunity and consideration as those who have a religious belief.

I have presented my position and will not post any further in this thread. I am sure there are some who will continue to rail against me, instead of against my position. I will continue to answer the emails and PM's being sent. If you would like to continue this discussion, feel free to email or PM me.

Ralph
 
For your consideration.

If you are religious and feel you need to let us all know why not just put "I'm a Christian" or "I'm Jewish", "Methodist", "Wiccan", "Atheist" or whatever your religious preference is. In that way you are stating your beliefs in a way that might be an acceptable compromise?
 
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If you will recall, I started this thread with the question, where do we stop. I know I have no control over a thread once started. But I have not seen much discussion on that topic after the first few posts.
 
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