New titanium pen updates

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Status
Not open for further replies.
I had mentioned in an earlier post entry that those little holes that were drilled in the barrel of the pen were off kilter. The reason was that the cutter was not exactly on the centerline of the part. I'm not sure if you can see it, but the Y axis (front to back axis) isn't powered. I just have the tiny handwheel for position. I put on that dial indicator last night so that I could find the precise centerline. I put something very precise like a dowel pin in the chuck and touch a tool to one side of it. I zero the indicator and move the tool to the other side of the dowel pin. I read the dimension and divide by 2. I handwheel back to that calculated dimension, and that is the exact centerline of the part.
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
This is definitely a tough pen to make. Hopefully the final product will have been worth the effort. The really tough part will be the trap door. I'll save that for last. Unfortunately, (fortunately?) I only get to work on it about a day or two per week since I'm always trying to keep ahead of orders.
 
Nicely done Bruce, and thanks for the update! Have you thought about recessing the top of the clip into the pen body, thus obviating the need for two screws?
 
Jim, I have the recess done with a ball endmill so the edges of the recess are rounded and don't catch on a pocket. When I recut the slots and the clip properly, it should look like a smooth carved out section that totally surrounds the clip. I haven't yet checked into keying it any more than it is. I don't have any more depth available, as the wall is so thin there, so I'll try the two screws first, and if that doesn't seem to work, I'll look further into other things to try to key it better.
 
I appreciate you giving us a "blow-by-blow" of the process and progress on this pen, Bruce. I've never had much of an idea of just how a CNC system works. The things you can do with this equipment are inspiring!
 
That's the beauty of CNC Bill, you make a part and see how "wrong" it is and dial it in. Little things like deflection of cutters or differences in programming don't really show up until a part is cut. The good news is that stuff is perfectly repeatable. If I program the changes correctly, changing this little part by 5 thousandths of an inch and scooting that part fifteen thousandths will actually make a difference and the part will get better each time I make it.
 
That plexiglass tailstock looks stout. Definitely nothing a mouse would chew on! Keep the pics coming, this is fun living vicariously through your CNC machine!
 
I turned the back portion of the pen. It was a long part, so I chucked the bar so that it was short and stiff, and I drilled the inner holes. I then used the tailstock and turned the outside shape. I left the stalk attached so the milling machine would have something to grip on while the grooves were milled.

20053275954_side-2-in-lathe.jpg
<br />
 
The front part has a ball endmill slot on the inside that drives the ball inside the helical groove on the brass part. After snapping off a cutter by the part moving in the milling machine. I decided that I better make a fixture to keep it from moving again. Here's the plastic fixture that held the part while the small slot was made.

200532751552_mill-fixture.jpg
<br />
 
Here's a picture of the completed pen next to a couple other pens I did. The aluminum pen is based on the Euro, so that gives some sense of proportion. The new pen just kinda seemed too small. It's funny because I worked so hard to get the size down, but I wasn't thrilled with it.

200532752055_3-pens.jpg
<br />
 
When the pen was assembled, there were a couple issues that still needed attention. I had the two parts press together with an undercut relief and matching bump on the other part. It worked OK, but it was extremely hard to get the dimension just right where the part could be pressed in then have it stay, yet the part also had to rotate freely. I've come up with a wire clip that may fix the issue. It would sit in a slot, and would be slightly squared, where corners would stick out past flush a little. They should be able to be deformed while the other part is pressed on then spring outward to hold the two parts together, yet let them rotate.

Another big issue is that there was too much friction for the mechanism to work well. I tried sanding down the brass tube, but that didn't have enough effect. I need to have a lower helix angle on the spiral on the brass part that moves the point out. It will take more rotation to get the point out, but will have more mechanical advantage that way. I need to prototype a new brass piece to see if that works. It might be necessary to go to acetal or some other slippery plastic for that part.

The other thing to fix is the size. It definitely needs to be around 3/4" longer. I looked at just stretching the existing pen, and that would work, but while I am redoing the whole pen, I might as well design it for an El Grande or a nice gold nib, which would be easier to come by. I am open for suggestions there.
 
Looks like I get to be first for this round. Thank you for sharing this adventure, Bruce. I LOVE this pen. It is aesthetically pleasing, beautifully finished, well conceived and designed. You may prefer that extra half-inch or so in length, but I think the overall dimensions are consistent and will provide great balance in a medium-sized hand. I applaud you for a wonderful piece.
 
It will look a lot nicer once it's properly finished, but I did like the shape. Going with a larger nib means the opening at the front is bigger, and everything else scales up a little as well. I drew some different iterations on the computer, and it goes from .58" diameter and 4.84" long (with nib out on this pen) to around .67" diameter x 5.60 long if it were simply scaled up to use an altered El Grande nib. (The plastic on the nib would be machined down to .37" diameter.) That's approaching pretty wide for the pen body. I don't care for it to be as wide as a magic marker or cigar pen. I can slim that slightly to .62" diameter and still somewhat keep "the look." Ideally, I would use a nib that had an M8 thread instead of the M6.5 or M10, and that could get the original proportions back, which do look seem to look better to me.

I could also take the original, and stretch the overall length around .50" and get a reasonable look. Still somewhat short, but not in the "wow, that looks wrong catagory." I'm really torn on what to do there because that nib is a very small one that Rich got from Germany, and they're not sold here. Ideally a medium sized one between those two sizes would be best.
 
Looking real good Bruce!!! Really appreciate you taking us through the steps you take---helps to appreciate all the work and thought you put into everything you do!!!!
 
The next things I have to do are prove out those concepts of the proper floating click, and the mechanism working smoothly. I can do new prototyping on the parts I have, and what I learn can be applied to any newly scaled version I do.

In theory, I should be able to simply scale the code I have for milling a new sized clip and the matching slot in the pen body. That was a lot of work!
 
FYI, Bruce. The Gentleman and Statesman pens are approximately .62" on the nib-end barrel. They're considered huge by most people's standards.
 
That's good information to have Lou. That data jives with me rejecting the scaled up .67" diameter as looking too wide. The problem I have is that I can scale up the nib and can slim down the body a lot more, but it starts looking like a starving big mouthed bass. It just doesn't look the same. That's where a medium nib might help.
 
Here's a screen shot of the different options. The bottom pen is the current size. The one above that is the same pen, but just adding .50" to the length. The one above that uses an El Grande nib and everything is simply scaled up to fit. The top one is the same, but in a slightly slimmed down version. It's the one I'm leaning toward. It could be slimmed slightly more in the front to more closely match the proportions of the original if the nib was a medium size.

200532762354_penscreenshot.gif
<br />
 
Bruce --- Sounds like you need to go fishing to me.
We are going to work on getting our boat out this week.
You know what brought this on------starving big mouthed bass--LOL
I my not know anything about making your pens but I do live near a lake.
3 miles to water from our house and the small mouth are getting ready.
 
I think I agree with you, Bruce, that the top one is the best option of the four. It's lines are quite visually pleasing and the size is not absolutely overwhelming.

I agree with Lou's earlier note about big pens being a bit problematic for a lot of people. I find that there are a lot of people that don't even like the cigar size because it's too big for them -- and it's under 0.5" at the nib end. On the other hand, there are a good number of folks (it seems to be larger men and women with arthritis) who really appreciate the cigar size and larger pens.
 
Thanks for the opinion Bill. It's good for me to have other people let me know what they think. A struggle with it by myself in front of the computer screen for hours at a time. I guess something I can do is print them to scale and cut them out of cardboard to get a quick handfeel check. It does neck down as much or more than a lot of the fat pens, so it doesn't feel quite so overwhelming. I wasn't sure how the helical grooves might feel, but once they're rounded down a bit like in the picture, the pen is actually quite comfortable.
 
Bruce, I think that with many people when they look at some of our larger pens they automaticly think that, wow that a big hunker. When I get that responce I have the person write with one (Gent or Statesman) and many times after writing with it they end up liking the pen. I think that when making a large pen the important thing is the weight and keeping it down. You may want to consider making it in two sizes like the Gentleman's and Statesman's kits.

Wayne
 
One other thing, for me personally I like writing with the full size Gent or Statesman and I am not a large person. (5' 10" 165lbs.) I carry a gentlemans pen on me at all times, one reason is because its a darn good sales tool and also because I like writing with it.

Wayne
 
Yes, that's an interesting thought Wayne. I can keep the code for the version I have, (or maybe the one with the stretched backside), and just copy the code and revise it for a second version with the larger nib. That way, all the work I've done on this one won't be wasted. I should probably at least finish this version out with working complete parts before going to a larger version. There is something about a larger pen that makes it command attention.
 
"floating click" ahhhh the floating click. Something most mfgs don't seem to understand!
Its a "high end" type of thing I guess. I think if you just add length to the current pen it would
be perfect! I understand though wanting to design to parts that are more available.
 
I just drew up the click on the computer. I think it should work OK and won't be too hard to make. It will be tough to remachine the parts I have now because of workholding issues, but making the click geometry on a new one won't be too bad.

Jeff, I agree that the current pen strecthed out a little would be a nice look. I agonized for weeks trying to find a way to get things that tight to be able to make everything work. It would be a shame to scale up just because the parts are easier to find. I just might need to check harder into finding those small nibs.
 
Bruce, I agree with Jeff about stretching out the original design... I think it would have a sleeker more streamlined look and be more saleable...
And having a larger version would be viable also from a sales standpoint... but I think it would look better with a smaller mouth... unlike me.. who has a big mouth... LOL..
Look at how many of us market not only Barons and Jr Gents, but full size Gents and Statesman pens as well... some people just like a big pen..
 
Thanks for the feedback Tom. That sounds like it might be the best option. I don't want to lose the sleek look, which is half the battle for a high end pen. Nibs like those are out there somewhere.
 
I tried the lower helix angle, and that looks like it will work to make the mechanism move. I went from 170 degrees of wrap of the ball bearing slot to 300 degrees, and this made the difference. I'll also buy a reamer to smooth out any internal drilling marks, which should help too. I also tried the wire click mechanism, where the two halves click together yet can still rotate freely. I'll need to get a special internal cutting tool for the lathe to properly cut the slot on the inside diameter of the one piece, but it looks like the theory will work OK. I have some slight "grunchiness" between the two parts when rotating them. Titanium galls a lot by nature, so I'm thinking I might put a super thin ring of acetal between the mating parts to help smooth out the feel. I added some special very thick grease made for high vacuum, and this helped the feel some, but it's still not where it needs to be for a high end pen. Another thing I noticed is that if the interface between the parts gets cocked to the side, it jams up the mechanism, making it harder to twist. A longer interface section and better machining of the slot for the wire click mechanism should help to avoid that. I should have been working on wedding rings tonight, but I wanted to know if those changes would work. If this is a typical work week, it will be around Thursday before I get to work on the pen again.
 
I completed the longer pen with the exception of the trap door, which will require some more thought and made the stand shown. It was nice and solid and worked well.
2005491172_penstand1.jpg
<br />

I am now considering making a capped version of the same pen to speed things up to a saleable version. There has been some interest by a magazine to do some pictures. My question is about the clip. Some people didn't think it flowed with the design so much. Specifically, some people didn't care for the screws. Does it make sense to market the pen only with the desk base and without a clip? That doesn't seem to be very common. If the cap screwed on, it wouldn't be necessary to recess the clip into the body, but if it stayed, does it look better recessed? I didn't ever plan for this to have a cap, much less one that posts. How much of a big deal would that be if the cap doesn't post. I'll be trying to make the cap use the helices on the inner body as the threads, so there would be no visible threads.

Gimme feedback! [:)]
 
I don't think the clip detracts. Without a clip, it's either a desk or a briefcase pen. Since I like to have a fountain pen in my pocket. A capped version would be great as well, but if you lengthen the body I don't think I'd want it to post.
 
Thanks for the feedback Lou. That's my feeling on the clip too. I kinda like the way it helps orient the pen. Being a metal pen, people would probably tend to use it unposted whether it could be or not. I was toying with the idea of doing an inlay of olivewood on the inner forward part of the pen (there must be a name for that thingie) but the wood would get pretty thin, so I'll probably go with titanium there. I will probably do the plug at the end where the trap door goes in olivewood to match the pen stand.

How about thoughts on marketing; do all pens get the pen stand or is it an add on option? It really looks nice standing on a desk.
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
I really like the stand Bruce---looks great!!! I think the clip is good---Guess I wonder if there's anyway to make the screws look a little more decorative though---I know Tim had some thoughts on that too---but, maybe it's not realistic?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom