My 9x20 experience

[Rich L]

Bluwolf - good idea. That will work - just adding an additional clamped holder but probably makes no difference. Also get's you a narrower cutter which should also be better for you. This kind of holder needs to be solidly clamped in the dovetail tool holder as you are extended a bit more and cutoff typically requires more cutting force. Just don't be cutting any nickel alloys or if you do, please report!

Cheers,
Rich

 

[bluwolf]

Rich, I was hoping a couple of you guys would double check me on this idea. I agree, there's a bit more side overhang. But it seemed the lesser of the evils and a fairly good compromise. Certainly better than $300 worth of stuff that wasn't going to work out of the box.

Gil, look at it this way. You can return the other stuff, buy a few inserts for this parting setup and still have over $200 to put towards other stuff.

Mike

 

[Rich L]

This is great - collaborative discussion and suggestions. narrowing down to a solution that I (we) hope will work.

Gil, sorry you may be dealing with a return problem but it's likely the best outcome. If you want to reset the whole issue I'd suggest getting an AXA quick-change holder that will accept a narrower inset and consequently a lesser blade height. I don't know what your nominal tool height over the compound is but - I hate to say it - measure first. Even though the lathe apparently handles an AXA size toolpost there are other dimensions that clearly got in your way. I wish I knew more about your particular lathe; thus better advice at the outset. I have two lathes that employ AXA posts and tool height is certainly different. I think all the toolholder dimensions published for the #71 would have probably predicted this problem ; 15/16 tool height in the holder.

I've been in your boat. I have made this same mistake more than once!

Mike's (Bluwolf) idea is great especially if your quick-change toolpost does not index around. You just slap in the holder he mentioned and you're already lined up. If you have an indexing one (like the Dorian Quadra) then I'd suggest you get an independent holder for the narrower blades. My Dorian cross reference part number is QITP25N. Tool height may still be too much.

There are also indexable cutoff holders with a square shank that will give you around 1.250 cutoff capability and you wouldn't need another holder but I don't know if the shank size gets less than .500 inch. (e.g. Iscar 2300835) If you have trouble with tool height with this option, then, well, maybe I shouldn't say ...

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Gilrock]

Well I don't know if I can return it or not. I didn't save any packaging. I can't even remember if it came in a box...it might have just been taped up in bubble wrap. Some responses indicated you didn't know what type of lathe or tool post I have...I know I mentioned it in one thread or another but it's a Jet 9x20 and I installed the Phase II QCTP. To be honest I thought everything I bought related to this tool holder were all compatible items and I thought I could adjust them to any height. I never knew I needed to measure anything because I never noticed there was a bottom limit.

The compound slide sticks out about 1/8" too far from being even with the side of the QCTP. On Steve Bedair's lathe modification pages he mentions milling the top surface of his topslide to be able to get the QCTP lower so his 1/2 tooling could reach center. These aren't the exact same parts but in this photo of his you can see how the slide sticks out just beyond the QCTP. I think he decided to mill the top surface so that he could keep the tool holder above the surface to allow rotation.

 

[bluwolf]

The invoice or whatever it was, said it was for AXA to CXA. CXA is for something like a 15" swing lathe. BUT, That just means the tool holder will fit your post. It doesn't take into consideration adjustment height because different lathes have different clearances.

If you got it from Enco there's no reason you shouldn't be able to return it. If it came in bubble wrap, send it back in bubble wrap

It's up to you, but you seem to be forcing a bad situation. You shouldn't have to modify the crap out of it, to make it fit. Worst case scenario, sell it on ebay and cut your losses. But I still think you can return it. Just my .02.

Mike

 

[rherrell]

According to the diagram in the Enco catalog the #71 tool holder you're getting is 1/8" TALLER than the #7, how on earth is that going to help? I have the #7, the exact same one as you and it works fine on my lathe and it's only an 8" swing. I think the problem you're having is because of the 4 bolt plate you installed, it might be higher than the one you took off.

Let me know if you want some pics of mine.

Also, I agree with Bruce, try NOT to part off steel, cut it long and face it. The only things I part off are brass, alum. and soft stuff like Delrin.

 

[IPD_Mr]

Rick that four bolt plate is the same thing that I put on mine and it is the same thickness as the two bolt on that you take off.

 

[Gilrock]

According to the diagram in the Enco catalog the #71 tool holder you're getting is 1/8" TALLER than the #7, how on earth is that going to help?

I just wanted a holder to house the blades that take carbide inserts. I called Enco and what I bought is what they recommended to me.

Right now I have no other way to cut steel.

 

[Rich L]

Gil,

I hope you get this sorted out as, in my opinion, ENCO sold you what they had and not what you needed. I actually talked to them about the holders and inserts you were after and that became the basis for one of my earlier posts in the middle of all this. When you do get it all sorted and get a little metal parting/cutting experience under your belt you should not hesitate to part off small diameters of steel. Make it sharp and take it easy! It's real hard to make a unclampable profiled part in steel (or any other material) without parting off when you're done. You may not make profiled pen parts in steel but you may make some tooling in steel and you'll need the part-off capability.

I'll be happy to talk to you about this.

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Gilrock]

OK Enco didn't give me any problems with returning the items.

By the way I didn't let this all get me down...I made several tooling items this weekend to help me with making kitless pens. I had previously made a tap holder out of delrin where I had installed an off the shelf tap holder but it didn't seem to be holding my tap on the centerline so I machined an aluminum sleeve to hold my 9mm tap securely and it fits inside the same 3/4" hole in the Delrin part I had made. I also made an adapter to hold a section with 9mm x 0.75 threads. You can see in that photo what I was talking about with not being able to get a good surface on the angle of the piece but functionally it doesn't matter. I then made a mandrel to hold my pen body for shaping and polishing. For the threads on the mandrel since I haven't got a good bit for threading on the metal lathe nor have I developed those skills I decided to make another Delrin die holder like my previous one except this one needed a larger diameter center hole to fit the middle section of the mandrel.

I learned a new skill with that die holder. I actually ran the lathe and tightened my grip on the die holder to cut a thread or two and then released pressure and let it spin on the shaft mounted in the tailstock. Then I could power off the lathe and reverse the direction and power it back on to back it back out. I did half the threads manually and then the other half with the lathe running for assistance and it was at least 3 times faster to run the lathe. Don't think I would try that with threading acrylic though.

These adapters helped a ton because before I was trying to re-chuck parts in the collet chuck and trying to shape the body on one side then flip it around and shape the other half...I was never getting it lined up well.

I thought I had a decent polish on this body until I saw the photos...I plan to make a mandrel for the cap and finish this pen.

 

[rherrell]

Rick that four bolt plate is the same thing that I put on mine and it is the same thickness as the two bolt on that you take off.

Then I don't get it. I have the exact same Phase II set-up on my 8" lathe and don't have a problem, why is there a problem with a 9" lathe?

 

[Gilrock]

Rick that four bolt plate is the same thing that I put on mine and it is the same thickness as the two bolt on that you take off.

Then I don't get it. I have the exact same Phase II set-up on my 8" lathe and don't have a problem, why is there a problem with a 9" lathe?

Well "why is there a problem" is the million dollar question isn't it? Every time on these forums that someone is having issues with something whether it be a lathe, a CA finish, or a casting material there's always someone that is using the exact same thing and never had a problem.

So what 8" lathe do you have and what parting blades are you buying for your #7 holder? I don't think you can just say it works fine on an 8" lathe from another manufacturer and expect exact performance on a 9" lathe. I've seen an 8" South Bend lathe I was drooling over...I'm betting it would have a more solid setup than the compound slide I'm dealing with. To be honest I'm ready to design a one piece mount to hold the QCTP and only use the compound slide when it's actually needed.

 

[Gilrock]

Ha...Rick I just looked at your threads and YOU were the one that bought that South Bend lathe. You really had me interested in buying that model. OK it's settled...when my old house sells I'm buying that lathe alone with a mill. :biggrin:

 

[rherrell]

I use the P2N blade, it's 1/2" tall and .0781" thick. The measurement from the TOP of my compound to the lathe centerline is 15/16", this is the critical measurement when fitting the correct QCTP.


By the way, the new 8" SB is really nice.:biggrin: