Is durg addiction a disease

[bitshird]

Funerals aren't for the dead anyway... mostly they are for the living. I don't see a right or wrong in whether you attend the funeral... as many have said, grieving is a personal/private thing... I have passed on attending many funerals, some of whom were close relatives... I wasn't upset about how they died or anything like that, but had other reasons for not attending... as long as you say your goodbye's and attain closure, being at the service will be immaterial.

Chuck hit it square on Funerals are for the living, so they can grieve in a group, I think it goes back as far as Cromangin or Neanderthals, we have this thing about seeking solace in groups, whether they are family or groups of friends or people we barley know but meet at things like Funerals. I don't do well at funerals, and normally don't go to them, I find the feigned emotion unsettling. I can grieve just as much sitting in my little area I have a comfortable rock bench in amongst three huge Oak trees in the back of my field.
As far as addiction being a disease, My dad tried to quit drinking for many years, but he didn't make it. I still pray for him though, he's been dead for 27 years. and I didn't attend his funeral but I have visited his grave, I think what ever is left of him still resides in me I hope. Like Ernie, I've done a lot of drugs. and fought off a serious addiction, and every once in a while I can feel that warmth in me after nearly 40 years of not using it. Addiction is a bummer!! but it can be beat, but you really can't beat a true friend no matter what.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

Thanks for the compliment Ernie, but actually it was made by Linda my wife. She is the Social Worker and I am her best client.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

Thanks for the compliment Ernie, but actually it was made by Linda my wife. She is the Social Worker and I am her best client.

Thanks Ernie. LoL Darling, you are definitely the one I love

 

[bbuis]

So what you are saying it is a choice for someone to have a herditary trait (disease)? I for one know that addiction is not always a choice. I have made some very bad decisions in my life and may have decided to try some things that I should have never tired. But at the same time things that you guys can do once in a blue moon like drink a beer become an every day thing for me. I know from my own experience in life this is a disease that is not always a choice. Yes I chose to pick up a beer, I chose to smoke a joint, I chose to eat a pill. I did not chose to get addicted to things that most people don't get addicted to. That in itself is where the disease is.
If you consider schizophrenia a disease then why not addiction? You can't help either one. I know people that have tried meth one time and never tried it again. On the other hand I know people that tried it that first time then stayed up for 2 weeks trying it more and more because their bodies react that way. This is not a debate it was a simple question. YES it is a disease.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

Anger can be a part of the grieving process.

Anger IS a part of the grieving process. Actually it is the second stage of grieving right after stage one - Denial.
It is followed by Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. People tend to cycle through these stages - revisiting one or two before getting through to acceptance and don't just go through them in a "straight line" as it would appear to be presented in training or education manuals at times.

Linda

 

[IPD_Mrs]

You are wrong...first...smokers pay a higher price for health insurance than you do.

You are incorrect - At the company I work there is no differentiation between the cost of health care for smokers or non-smokers, so this is NOT always the case.

Obesity is a problem but even more serious in my opinion is lack of fitness, I would have a lot more confidence in the health of an obese person who is fit than an more healthy built person who is not fit.

We have had more clients die due to obesity in the past 3 years than illnesses related to smoking or those "being less fit." Still believe this?

But that being said....in the 1940's people walked more, worked harder, ate less, were a lot fitter and a lot thinner than today but suffered more heart attacks and had a shorter adult life span ( expected life span at turning 21) by about 13 years than in 2003 or so.

And our medical care/system has had 70 years of improvement. A LOT has happened during that time. MUCH of that improvement has been things that have extended the human life span (medications, procedures etc) and have nothing to do with how the particular person takes care of themself or doesn't especially with regards to heart health. (Stroke is another area where we have made major advances in care - there is a 3 hour window within which if you get treatment you have a considerable chance at surviving without the maladies that probably would have doomed you to death or life as a vegetable 70 years ago.)

LINDA

 

[EBorraga]

Thanks Ernie. LoL Darling, you are definitely the one I love

Well Linda, now I must come visit when I go to Chuck's house. I'll force him to tell me how to get there. I'll be coming up the weekend of the August 21st. Gonna do some turning and hopefully have lunch or breakfast with Johnnycnc on my way up.

 

[PenMan1]

You are wrong...first...smokers pay a higher price for health insurance than you do. even though the total lifetime medical costs for smokers is lower than that of non-smokers. How can that be? Easy, half of the healthcare cost for typical people occur in the last six months of their life, the exceptions are those who die suddenly at a younger age....more smokers die suddenly at a younger age and avoid those costs.

No, I'm not wrong. Most, if not all group insurance is just that GROUP coverage. "Group" insurance, specifically employee group insurance makes up nearly 80 percent of the health insurance market. This means that every individual in the group pays the same price for the same health care coverage. So, if you work for an employer who provides group insurance, the premiums are determined by the number of smokers in your group. Many employers, most in the South, no longer employ smokers because it drives the cost of employee benefits.

I know this because for the past 20 years, a big portion of my job as General Manager has been negotiating with providers for group insurance for my company. The more smokers in the group, the higher the group cost.

A group like Microsoft pays less than 1/3 the cost for health insurance as Bush Beer (comparable sized companies). This is simply because workers at Microsoft don't smoke and Budweiser employees, for the most part do.

I know this because I have been there and negotiated this.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

Well Linda, now I must come visit when I go to Chuck's house. I'll force him to tell me how to get there. I'll be coming up the weekend of the August 21st. Gonna do some turning and hopefully have lunch or breakfast with Johnnycnc on my way up.

Best to call first - that is the last weekend of our vacation and I don't know for sure when we are going to be getting back in from Illinois (visiting family - both those still with us and some ancestrial graves)

Chuck can certainly give you directions we see him from time to time and knows where our shop is (not sure if he knows where we live or not) but if you pm us we'll give you the phone number etc). If you get the pleasure of meeting Johnnycnc you will have a blast - we just had a visit with him this past weekend and it was a joy - he's a great guy!

Linda

 

[ROOKIETURNER]

Also, what about the bible thing of the first guy without sins throw the first stone. I think refusing to attend the funeral of a friend is a big, big stone.

I think that it unwise to quote scripture to make a point. You have to be very careful when doing so. The Bible is not something that you use to prove YOUR point.

Context is key. Context anchors a text and tells you what the author was trying to convey. The story is of a woman who was caught in the act of adultery. She, and not the man also caught in the act, was brought before Christ to be condemned. Christ was brought this woman, with a crowd holding stones. The Crowd was full of religious leaders. Christ wrote something on the ground and then told the crowd that the one that was without sin cast the first stone. He was saying that the one who is perfect should start the condemnation. No one was without sin, therefore no one could condemn the woman.

Here we have someone who chose not to go to a funeral. He did not stand up and say to the family that he deserved to die. He did not say that he was any better. He did not condemn the man, he just chose not to support him, by going to his funeral. No one said that they are better than anyone, we are just saying that drug addiction is not a disease.

Even if drug addiction is genetic, we have the power to choose to indulge the defect or not. What is next? Pedophilia? Do we say that the men who prey on little children have a disease that is out of their control? We should excuse their behavior, treat them and move on? No we should stand up and say right is right and wrong is wrong, own up to your mistakes and choices.

In any case you have to look at the logical end to the argument in order to assess whether or not it is solid. Saying that drug addiction is a disease leads us down a slippery slope.

We cannot say that because a book calls it a disease it is. How many medical books written a hundred, or fifty, heck even 10 years ago have mistaken conclusions? Let's let logical rule the day and not emotion. It feels good to not have to point the finger at someone and say you are at fault. We have a whole judicial system that loves to prey on "the devil made me do it" mentality.

 

[chris63]

drug use

as a funeral director I see this situation all to often. doesnt matter really how you believe , the service you did not attend was for the family that was left to cope with this.. He was not there , but the family could have used your support, this doesnt mean you agree or understand.. but that you have a heart.. It could be someone in your immediate family someday..

 

[ROOKIETURNER]

Come on...are you saying that he doesn't have a heart? That is going way too far. How dare you judge him in this way. Just because you disagree with his action, gives you no right to say he has no heart.

Come to the table with something a little more substantial and less emotional.

 

[glycerine]

Let me ask this question. Where do you draw the line between "hereditary/genetic trait" and "monkey see, monkey do"? I do alot of things that my parents do or did because I grew up watching them do it. Is that hereditary? I'm originally from the south and use the word "ya'll". Is that hereditary? I say "please" and "thank you", is that hereditary? I do drugs, is that hereditary? It seems to me that it always the "bad/negative" habits that are blamed on genetics. (And those are just examples, I'm not saying that I actually do drugs or say "ya'll")
Scientists/Doctors have ALOT of THEORIES that quickly become "truths" or fact. It's like an astronomer that looks at a star and says "hey, that star is a billion years old"... really, I mean REALLY. Were you around a billion years ago to see that star being created/formed/born? Heck no, it's unprovable, but yet it has become a fact.
Just like this discussion will always be OPINIONS from many different people. There's no way to "prove" anything, so there's no right or wrong answer on this one.

 

[DCBluesman]

What do you believe, Is it a disease or just a self inflicted addiction?

Jack

Why is it so difficult for folks to simply answer the question and defend their position, if they so desire, without generating an argument or an attack? This forum is going to hell over these constant rants and ravings.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

Why is it so difficult for folks to simply answer the question and defend their position, if they so desire, without generating an argument or an attack? This forum is going to hell over these constant rants and ravings.

Just think of what a better place this would be if all the energy put into threads like this was put towards positive endevours such as YouthMinister and Curtis are doing for Cody.

Stuff like this belong in an elocution forum not a pen turning forum.

Mike

 

[bitshird]

Why is it so difficult for folks to simply answer the question and defend their position, if they so desire, without generating an argument or an attack? This forum is going to hell over these constant rants and ravings.

Lou for some people it;s easier to attach, bitch and moan than simply answer a question wit a simple explanation, .
I've known military men from all services except Coast /Guard that have had a monkey on their back so it happens there, ( i just don't know any one in the coast guard)
I've known several Dr.s that make House look like a clean cut guy. But it's easier to give a false impression of your own worthiness to judge if you make others look weak or bad, just like it's easier to make your artistry look good to the untrained eye, by running down another artists work, (sadly it's a human thing that true FAMILY'S) don't engage in remember when the IAP was a Family???

 

[Smitty37]

For some people

Anger IS a part of the grieving process. Actually it is the second stage of grieving right after stage one - Denial.
It is followed by Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. People tend to cycle through these stages - revisiting one or two before getting through to acceptance and don't just go through them in a "straight line" as it would appear to be presented in training or education manuals at times.

Linda

Anger is part of the grieving process for some people in some situations. I grieve the loss of my dog, but I have never felt anger because of that loss...just not the kind of thing I get angry about....must be in my genes.

 

[Smitty37]

I've skipped immediate family

as a funeral director I see this situation all to often. doesnt matter really how you believe , the service you did not attend was for the family that was left to cope with this.. He was not there , but the family could have used your support, this doesnt mean you agree or understand.. but that you have a heart.. It could be someone in your immediate family someday..

I said before, I don't attend very many funerals....I was at my Dad's, and my Mom's. I had 6 brothers and sisters...all deceased now, Three of the funerals I did not attend. Not because I don't have a heart...I had 4 brothers and three of my four sisters-in-law are still living. I love all of them very much, stay in touch with all of them and visit them when I get a chance...I will not attend their funerals when they pass on and they know that.

While they live there in nothing within my power that I won't do for them and they all know that too.

 

[Craftdiggity]

Wow, two arguments within one thread. This is my kind of thread.

As to the disease versus choice issue, I am a former user of drugs as are my two brothers. My habit ran into the thousands of dollars per week range and looking back, I don't know how I survived. When the time came for me to lay it down, I made the choice and never looked back. It was not easy and I struggled, but never touched any of that stuff again. My brothers were more or less the same, but on a smaller scale. I think they might have fallen off the wagon a time or two, but we are all clean now. For me it has been 15 years. I also quit smoking 6 years ago.

Point blank, I do not believe that addiction is a disease. Irrespective of how far along one is in his drug/alcohol habit, a choice is made every time a drink is taken, a line snorted, etc. It is this choice that separates the two. I feel that calling it a disease takes the personal responsibility out of the equation and makes the user feel like it is not their own fault.

As for whether or not you should have gone to the funeral, that is a personal decision. I don't like to go to funerals at all. My reason has nothing to do with how the person lived their life, but rather more to do with the fact that I think funerals are a waste of time and money. It sounds like you would have gone to the funeral had your friend lived his life differently. For that reason you should have gone anyway. You don't have to approve of his lifestyle, but you can still grieve his death with his family.

 

[Mickey]

My father was an alcoholic for many many years following WWII. He was always the first to say it was not a disease but that it was a curable addiction. He managed to shake the addiction several years before he died and made many efforts to right some of the wrong he had done. I agree with what others are saying about it being a choice. The one positive of his alcoholism is that us five kids have been all our lives teetotalers.

 

[nava1uni]

Sorry about the death of your friend. I hope that the family and rest of the friends can support one another during this difficult period. Hope you will feel comfortable about your choice. I have many opinions, being an RN, about disease and drug addiction, but won't comment here. I find that lately to state an opinion, even a fact, only elicits anger to the point of badgering and bad feelings. Much more then I remember from past years.

 

[glycerine]

Why is it so difficult for folks to simply answer the question and defend their position, if they so desire, without generating an argument or an attack? This forum is going to hell over these constant rants and ravings.

Well that's where it all starts. That's the basis of "debate" (or arguing, depending on how you look at it). But most people are curious and want to understand why someone feels a certain way and asks a question, then the other person answers, again, defending their position, and it goes on an on... Until the thread gets locked or deleted!