Interest in Direct Buy - Imperials/Lotus

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I would like to get in on this as well if it's not too late! I'd like 1 each of the FP's. Would also need the bushings and a couple sets of tubes.

Thanks!
Dave
 
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I just checked the spreadsheet -
I would like a set of bushings and the tubes needed for my order please
My order showed 3 of each pen.
I will need to drop mine down to 2 of each...I hope this does not mess things up
If it does please let me know.
My total order should be
2 Lotus Rollerball
2 Lotus Fountain
2 Imperial Rollerball
2 Imperial Fountains
1 set of bushings
Appropriate amount of tubes.
Thank you
Kevin
 
Looking over some of the other orders - I noticed the tubes being ordered are extra's?
If I would like enough to have one set per kit = 2 RB 2 Fnt and 2 RB and 2 FNT = 8 pens all together.
Plus the set of bushings
Thank you
Kevin
 
Andy,

I would like 3 of each of the RB kits in adddition to the FP kits already on the spread sheet. I would also like 5 sets of extra tubes and 2 sets of bushings for the Lotus and 5 sets of extra tubes and 2 sets of bushings for the Imperial.


Thanks
Mike
 
Pen kit count is correct in the spreadsheet. I will need 1 set of bushings, and 2 extra sets of tubes for each the lotus and the Imperial. Thanks.
 
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Is it to late to get in for 2 Imperial 22K Roller Ball and 2 imperial 22K Fountains with 6 extra tube sets and bushings ???
Thanks;


bob
 
I wish that there would be a source to procure more of these kits in the near future as my budget allows. A big hit on my small monthly budget. I guess it would be different if this was a business cost and not a hobby.
 
gallianp said:
I wish that there would be a source to procure more of these kits in the near future as my budget allows. A big hit on my small monthly budget. I guess it would be different if this was a business cost and not a hobby.
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Paul:
This is my goal, too! BUT, first, I have to prove that there is enough interest to support these sets!

Group Buy information is coming VERY SOON!!!!
 
Andy,

Since the Imperial and the Lotus use the same bushings, I will only need two sets.

Is there any chance we can get Emperors as well?

Thanks
Mike
 
brez said:
Andy,

Since the Imperial and the Lotus use the same bushings, I will only need two sets.

Is there any chance we can get Emperors as well?

Thanks
Mike
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Sorry Mike.
This Group Buy will only be open to the Lotus and Imperial.
IF this Group Buy goes well and without TOO much hassel. I do plan to see if there is Emperor and Jr Emperor interest in the near future. "A journey of a million miles begins with a single step". This buy is my "first step". Thank you for your interest and patience.
 
I am stepping down as manager of this group buy

I offer my apology, (along with my notes and contacts, in the hopes that some other brave soul will take up this task) for withdrawing as manager of this proposed group buy.

I have had a couple of issues surface that make me a bit uncomfortable in going forward with this group buy. I am not withdrawing because of a lack of interest by the membership; there is PLENTY of interest, not only in these sets, but others as well.

I have express shipping and insurance issues that as YET are unresolved (after a hard month of working on this project). I feel that it is far better to withdraw NOW and keep my good name and the name of the IAP in tact, rather than jeopardize both by failing at this task. As a caring human being, and a good citizen of pen making, there is NOTHING that I would rather do than to help advance the IAP and pen making. As a businessman, it is impossible for me to find any "upside" for continuing. In my mind, there is a far greater chance of "hitting it out of bounds rather than hitting it down the middle." Sometimes the smarter play is to "lay up". This must be a WIN-WIN situation for everyone involved to continue my efforts.

My worst nightmare is that an "unimportant, small box in a huge container, on a massive ship, crossing half the world" gets lost, leaving me no recourse other than to go into my life's savings to reimburse my friends for trying to "do a good turn".

Without something MORE than a "maybe" from someone half way around the world, that I don't know personally, I AM NOT WILLING TO PUT OUR HARD EARNED DOLLARS AT RISK. I would certainly do this if I had a higher degree of confidence in a timely delivery, BUT, without some kind of warranty, I find the risk just too great, for me AND the good people of the IAP. The bottom line is that I am unwilling to gamble my family's future, my good name and YOUR MONEY, for the sake of a few pen kits.

Thank you for all your support, encouragement and enthusiasm for this endeavor. I pray for your understanding in my stepping away from this project. Anyone who chooses to "pick up this ball and run with it" has my blessings and I'll freely publish all my work, notes, contacts, pertaining to this project.

If you have negative things to say about my efforts, or me feel free to air them, either in public or in a private message. The only way I could feel worse that I do now, would be to have squandered your hard earned money!

Respectfully submitted.
 
Andy
I admire you for being smart enough to see a potential problem on the horizon and being honorable enough to step up and say so. I am certain that you have more information than any of us and if you are not comfortable with this venture, then I support your decision to back away 100%. Common sense now is a hell of a lot better than the potential of disappointment later.
Thank you for what you have done,
Bob
 
It seems that the primary beneficiary of this group buy would be the vendor, Dayacom.

Perhaps they would like to step forward and offer the IAP a guarantee of delivery. The money could be put in escrow, to be given to Dayacom when the products arrive safely at the designated member's location.

So, step up, Dayacom, there is about a $10,000 deal here for the taking.
 
ed4copies said:
It seems that the primary beneficiary of this group buy would be the vendor, Dayacom.

Perhaps they would like to step forward and offer the IAP a guarantee of delivery. The money could be put in escrow, to be given to Dayacom when the products arrive safely at the designated member's location.

So, step up, Dayacom, there is about a $10,000 deal here for the taking.
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They may be Goliath,and weild a huge swoard, but the way I see it, David has over 9,000 rocks in the pouch...AND home field advantage.

Stranger things have happened!
 
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omb76 said:
Ed, you should start stocking these on Exotics... that would solve the problem! :biggrin:
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That MAY happen, someday. But I run the same risk---shipping from Taiwan or China has it's pitfalls. THEY are accustomed to doing it, THEY should assume the risk.

We'll see.
 
Have you talked to them about assurances. I ask this because they have started advertising this discount in other turner magazines. They put it out there as a chance for the smaller people to get hold of their highend kits. The big thing is to have some sort of means over here to have these delivered after they hit the port. Some companies will do all the paper work over there because they are familar with the US rules and port securities. I am sure this would be one of those companies because they deal with us here. Too bad for I looked forward to these kits. Thanks for trying.
 
Hey, totally understandable. Don't sweat it. I doubt very seriously if anyone complains. It's tough enough doing a regular group buy.
Thanks for all the effort you put in just trying to get this off the ground!
Brian
 
Thank you very much for attempting to put this together. Very few are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to run a GB.
 
Monty said:
Thank you very much for attempting to put this together. Very few are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to run a GB.
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jttheclockman said:
Have you talked to them about assurances. I ask this because they have started advertising this discount in other turner magazines. They put it out there as a chance for the smaller people to get hold of their highend kits. The big thing is to have some sort of means over here to have these delivered after they hit the port. Some companies will do all the paper work over there because they are familar with the US rules and port securities. I am sure this would be one of those companies because they deal with us here. Too bad for I looked forward to these kits. Thanks for trying.
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John:
I am as small a person as people get. My last name is LITTLE, for goodness sakes!

The best my efforts could prove (my mandrin and cantenese verbal skills are admittedly poor) is that Dayacom doesn't make SQUAT, but merely an office, a fax machine, and one Hell of a web designer!

As far as I can decipher, Dayacom is totally at the mercy of some OTHER nameless production facility (wouldn't it be funny if this factory turned out to be resling (sp))!

I'm old school, I NEED more information. You are welcome to all my notes, contacts, if you want to pursue this.
 
PenMan1 said:
Monty said:
Thank you very much for attempting to put this together. Very few are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to run a GB.
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jttheclockman said:
Have you talked to them about assurances. I ask this because they have started advertising this discount in other turner magazines. They put it out there as a chance for the smaller people to get hold of their highend kits. The big thing is to have some sort of means over here to have these delivered after they hit the port. Some companies will do all the paper work over there because they are familar with the US rules and port securities. I am sure this would be one of those companies because they deal with us here. Too bad for I looked forward to these kits. Thanks for trying.
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John:
I am as small a person as people get. My last name is LITTLE, for goodness sakes!

The best my efforts could prove (my mandrin and cantenese verbal skills are admittedly poor) is that Dayacom doesn't make SQUAT, but merely an office, a fax machine, and one Hell of a web designer!

As far as I can decipher, Dayacom is totally at the mercy of some OTHER nameless production facility (wouldn't it be funny if this factory turned out to be resling (sp))!

I'm old school, I NEED more information. You are welcome to all my notes, contacts, if you want to pursue this.
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My problem is I can not afford to handle the money aspect in my paypal account. Too much for taxes. You did your best. We will have to wait to see if another company picks up their line of highend kits again. Until then there is always the Cambridge line. To me that is as highend as we can get right now. :)
 
Andy,
I understand and support your decision 100%!
Thank you for taking the time and effort into this project.
Takes a true man to work so hard for so many days and still be able to see the potential pit fall problems ahead.
My hat is off to you for all you done!
 
Clarification from DAYACOM

Hello to everyone,
I am the assistant of DAYACOM President Angus Lee and also his son, I just graduated from U of O and here to help my father's poor English explanation. I wrote this post in order to clarify some misunderstanding to DAYACOM and let everyone knows what we really do.

Thanks to one of the anonymous user of IAP, my father realized the situation and asks me to explain everything for him.

DAYACOM is a manufacture Company since 1987 until today, we designed and took lots of money to make new developed pen kits and project kits. Our main business is to Importers and wholesalers ONLY, we can not sell few parts to each end user.

We hope that there is someone or company could represent all of you to collect all of your orders and place your orders to Dayacom, so that Dayacom could arrange your orders into production and make shipment to your representative after 5-6 weeks.

There are already several customers from USA, Canada, Korea and Germany used our website to online orders and settled payment through PayPal from our website:
www.dayacom.com.tw.

Dear end users please help and recommend your representative to contact with Dayacom, and place all of your orders to Dayacom through the representative, we will do our very best to arrange it into production and make shipment as soon as possible.

I apologize for the misunderstanding, and hope someday there will be new representative that can support our business and provide pen kits to you all.

Best Regards,

Chien-Wei Lee
Assistant to the President of DAYACOM
 
It is a pleasure to have an opportunity to communicate with Dayacom through you. Perhaps you can answer a question that has bothered me.

Why does it take WEEKS to deliver an order for 30, 50 or even 100 pens? Most certainly you are not manufacturing that small a "run" on demand. So, I can only surmise that is the time in transit. Which provides a great opportunity for "lost goods".

Also, since you have been manufacturing since 1987, you should be financially able to produce the product using YOUR funds. Then, when the product arrives, funds could be released to you. (A bank letter of credit could be arranged to secure your position, if need be).

I thank you in advance for your reply and I thank both you and your father for taking an interest in this small (by Dayacom standards) project. I think you will find there is great potential here for a fine, long term relationship.
 
ed4copies said:
It is a pleasure to have an opportunity to communicate with Dayacom through you. Perhaps you can answer a question that has bothered me.

Why does it take WEEKS to deliver an order for 30, 50 or even 100 pens? Most certainly you are not manufacturing that small a "run" on demand. So, I can only surmise that is the time in transit. Which provides a great opportunity for "lost goods".

Also, since you have been manufacturing since 1987, you should be financially able to produce the product using YOUR funds. Then, when the product arrives, funds could be released to you. (A bank letter of credit could be arranged to secure your position, if need be).

I thank you in advance for your reply and I thank both you and your father for taking an interest in this small (by Dayacom standards) project. I think you will find there is great potential here for a fine, long term relationship.
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A while ago, Timberbits posted about the pen making process. Since you did'nt comment on it i assume you missed it. He visited Dyacom and they outsource their production. They probably work on the Dell model (just in time) wich imply a minimum inventory in sock.

Here is Tiberbits post, very interesting

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=65677
 
Thanks Alfred!!
Actually, I was aware of that thread, but I am hoping to let the gentleman from Dayacom give us more information, since he is obviously better informed than I on his situation.
 
Clarification-2 from Dayacom

Hello to everyone again:
Dayacom has been sold high end pen kit in USA through one of our main Importers for many years, but they didn't want to carry on our high end penkits since financial crisis in USA and we understood their difficulty and situation on running high end pen kit.

Dayacom was forced to adjust our business running to start to retail our high end pen kits on our website to each end user, that's why we made an option for 30pcs and 50pcs. But if group buy from IAP would be more hundreds pieces, then it needs more time to arrange it into production, might be 45-60 days after receipt orders from group buy. Large orders need more time to arrange it into production.

Re EMS Speed post is Express mail service from official post office. It is registered and express airparcel. Our experience is about 5-6 working days buyers can receive our ariparcel from the date we sent it.

The following companies have been ordered from our Website and payment through PayPal:

Disclosure of private info is against the Acceptable Use Policy and Privacy Policy of Penturners.org. Information removed by moderator.

And there are many others in other countries…

We apologize to public above our new customers with their name, email address and other information in USA and Canada. We hope they can understand our position in order to clarify our Dayacom brand, reputation and top quality. Hope all of IAP members can understand our efforts to provide with good quality pen kits to each woodturner and hope to find a representative or company can help us to collect all of your group buy, Dayacom will do our very best to serve every member from IAP.

Best Regards,

Chien-Wei Lee
Assistant to President of Dayacom
 
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Hello Mr Lee

I am glad you found your way over to our site and if you read through this post you will quickly see there is a real interest in your product. The idea of a group buy such as this is to take advantage of quantity discounts. Let us face it your prices for some of your higher end kits are very expensive. This is one reason that sales are down especially with the economy not doing so well here. I am not quite sure why you charge so much more for certain kits and maybe it is because of the materials used but that is your decisions. Our quest is to try to take advantage of the discount prices but the thing we keep running into is the variety of platings and kits. Not everyone wants the same platings and kits. At this time you do not offer a combination quantity buy. Most companies here will offer this.

What I mean is if I ordered a certain kit in a gold plating and someone else ordered a few in platinum, combined they will count as 2 kits no matter the plating. This is something I am sure would help sales too.

With that all said here is the biggest concern we have as members here and as having a representative take charge of this group buy. One of your customers Ed Brown made this statement and it sums up what we consider to be the major stumbling block with us pulling the trigger on your products and turning this into a good sales partnership.



ed4copies said:
It seems that the primary beneficiary of this group buy would be the vendor, Dayacom.

Perhaps they would like to step forward and offer the IAP a guarantee of delivery. The money could be put in escrow, to be given to Dayacom when the products arrive safely at the designated member's location.

So, step up, Dayacom, there is about a $10,000 deal here for the taking.
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I can echo the concerns because right now I have 2 orders of other various items from China that are lost. They were shipped on Nov.24 2010. The people who sent them have no idea as to their whereabouts. So I am at a lost. Now the money value does not come close to this but you can see the concern. This is our hard earned money here and dealing with people we do not know half way around the world with no assurance as to seeing a product is a concern and hope you understand this. We want to do business and as a pen turning group you are talking to a huge audience here. We are the ones purchasing your kits. It is unfortunate that our carriers here have discontinued your products so we need to find another avenue and this seems to be or at least we are trying to make it to be the way.


Hope you see our concerns and offer a solution. Thanks again for taking the time to join and to see if we can work things out. The person who tried to arrange this group buy has put alot of time and effort into this. I hope his efforts are not for naught. Have a great day.
 
As I said in the other posting about this - obviously Dayacom doesn't have a privacy policy. Seems to be a pretty bad business practice to publish this kind of information about your customers.

Michael
 
Mr. Lee:
In the U.S., if you go to a restaurant and order a meal, you are not expected to pay before the restaurant buys the food to prepare the meal. The diner pays after the meal has been eaten. This arrangement is good for the hungry person, not so good for the restaurant.

The current arrangement with Dayacom is equalivent to the customer paying the restauranteur before the food has even been bought.

Perhaps if the IAP could give Dayacom an order, backed with a letter of credit, then Dayacom could put the IAP on the production schedule. Then simply, when production has been completed and notification of shipment sent, the IAP could release the funds at that time.

If we could obtain such an agreement, I am sure that we could substantially improve Dayacom's high end pen sales.

In this past effort, we were ready to buy 200 high end sets, AND considering another order the same size or bigger on Emperors and Jr Emperors.

If some arrangement could be reached Dayacom would enjoy a consistent partner for the high end kits.

Respectfully submitted.
 
One potential solution, that would need the "blessing" of the group buy co-ordinator as well as Jeff and the membership:

Exotic blanks could act as the "clearing house" for the orders. There are four styles involved, we would purchase 50 of each from Dayacom, with payment from the members in advance, at the 30 price (the volume the IAP has been able to produce.)

I would do this, if Dayacom is willing to guarantee delivery in some mutually-acceptable manner. Or if Dayacom is willing to accept payment when the pens arrive at Exotic Blanks.

To date, as Mr Lee says above (somewhat interesting privacy policy, but I have nothing to hide, happily) I have purchased small orders from Dayacom. I can afford to lose a few hundred dollars, if the shipment never arrives.

As a "business transaction" there is not enough margin to entice me to risk losing one shipment. So, if you can find a way to make this work, Mr. Lee, you could have a new customer in Exotic Blanks (further information has been PM'd to you---I would prefer our business be discussed privately--that is traditional in the USA).

As I asked before, which U of O did you attend? If you have been in the USA for four years, studying business, these things should have been part of your curriculum.

Thanks for your consideration.

Ed Brown
www.ExoticBlanks.com
 
Ed:
This makes more sense than anything we have posted here recently! I have it, first hand, that the largest U.S. Dayacom distrubitors are their words "not interested in stocking these products in any quantities". Additionally, they would have NO problems with a vendor that specialized in ONLY the high Dayacom products.

Secondly, I think that our group buy query proved that there IS enough interest among IAP members to make stocking a few of these sets a feasible proposition.

Third, The structure of the IAP by its very nature would make an IAP purchase a bad decision for the sites owners and managers.

So, it seems to me that a Dayacom and Exotic Blanks partnership is our only REAL alternative. GOOD LUCK IN OBTAINING EXPIDITING DELIVERY AND A WORKABLE RELATIONSHIP WITH DAYACOM.

This is almost a "save the whales" venture to me. WITHOUT a SERIOUS North American Distributor, the Dayacom high ends are destined for extinction. In my mind, this would be a shame, as Dayacom producers already have the tooling in place to make the products and pen makers love the products because of the ease of building and the beauty of the finished product.

And Mr. Lee, since I never saw your "new member introduction", I wish you a belated WELCOME TO THE BEST PEN MAKING FORUM IN THE WORLD!
 
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Any News

A couple of folks sort of indicated they were going to try to talk with DAYACOM and maybe work something up with respect to buying from them...have any of these conversations panned out ... or even taken place yet?
 
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Dayacom

Smitty37 said:
A couple of folks sort of indicated they were going to try to talk with DAYACOM and maybe work something up with respect to buying from them...have any of these conversations panned out ... or even taken place yet?
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I exchanged 7 emails with the folks from Dayacom with no inference that I was speaking for the IAP, but as a private business person. I was actually evaluating the potential for becoming a U.S. distributor for their high end pens. According to them, they do not have anyone here any longer that handles their entire line.

The main concerns that I presented to them was
- the fact that at any order level, we are required to pay for everything up front prior to the order being placed
- the concern about the shipping insurance and/or lack of guarantee of delivery.

Their response was
- that is the way they do business - period. They do not want to hear anything about 1/2 up front or upon shipment or placing the money in a third party escrow account for performance distribution. Nor do they care about the fact that they have their money/profit before the order is even placed. They take their cut then send in the order. Delivery time is in the hands of the manufacturer.

- they would not address the concern about shipping time nor insurance. The order ships directly from the manufacturer. They said if there is a problem, they would help but they stopped short of any commitments. A lost or damaged order could realistically take months to get corrected, as would any shortages that may occur.

I also spoke with one of the folks overseas who distributes their product line and was told that Dayacom is very difficult to deal with. I also went down to the CSUSA office and was told pretty much the same thing from them which influenced them to curtail their involvement with Dayacom. Basically it is their way or no way, which they are entitled to do as they feel best, but it seems to limit the pool of folks willing to take the risks involved with being a product line distributor.

They accept absolutely no risk and seemingly very little responsibility. It is all on the shoulders of the buyer. Regardless of the length of the relationship, if the buyer has paid all costs up front, it is simply a buy-sell accomodation. In view of this, I backed away.

Regards,
Bob
 
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