IAP Classifieds, Marketing, Advertising

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As a member who also sells to others, I've become a bit concerned. I enjoy the IAP greatly, and I certainly don't want to abuse the priviliges of membership. I have, however, done some of the things that are now forbidden - such as test marketing (but I won't anymore).

I also respond when people ask where they can buy what I sell, I complment pens made from similar materials, and I have a weblink to my sales page in my signature. Those things show up outside the classifieds section. Should I stop?

My post count is not extremely high, as I usually only post when I feel I have something worthwhile to say, and I limit my ad posting to when I have something new to sell. I conduct the vast majority of my sales through my website so that traffic doesn't clutter up the IAP forums.

In other words, I'm trying to be a good IAP citizen. I'm just not sure where the boundaries lie. I'd like to make the Most Valued Vendors list someday, but more than that I want to be an upstanding member of this group I respect highly.

Jeff, if the acceptable practices are changing, can you provide some guidance to help us avoid inadvertently breaking the rules?

Thanks,
Eric
 
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I agree with alot of what I am seeing. Maybe we should cut down on the the "extra" post everyone is talking about.


When a thread reaches 10 pages it get real hard to follow it. But if it just lists the items, questions pertaining to the item and orders, that will make it easier. All the PM sent, paypal address, WOW this looks great, ect ect... post can be limited to Private messages. I too am guilty of this and to tell you the truth its probably because I am too lazy to click on another button and type it in. I know I will cut down on this.



Edited to add
As to all the compliments of the items purchased, naturally all the good comments will be posted. But, posting something negative toward another members sale items could raise problems. Last thing we need is more negative/flame threads.
 
Just one guy's opinion, of course... Thinking that PMs or emails should be used to let a "vendor" know you received (or did not receive) an order, or to make an order in the first place. No problem for the sellers to use the proper place(s) in the forums to advertise what they have, and to update availability as items are sold out. One of the valuable things about the forums for me is to find out where I can get things I want or need, and if the source is a member here, so much the better. If we police ourselves to keep these things in their proper places in the forums, then nobody can be upset, as they don't even have to enter those areas if they are not in the market for something.

It has been my experience that no forum is any better than the members' own willingness to keep within the framework of the rules.
 
Here is my 2 cents even though I normaly try to stear clear of these post, but seeing how I am a big part of this issue I will offer my take on this. One problem I see with cutting down with all the post about "got it" and things of that nature is "emails get lost". It is nice as a seller to let folks know in two places (PM and Post) whats going on. I will also add a couple other comments as I am part of this quote "problem". When the MVV area was started I also got my website up and going (thanks to an awesome member). So I bacially just posted a list of what I had and their respective prices and a referance to my website. I then stopped posting in the classified sections and just let folks buy off the site or from the one listing in MVV. And of course would respond to other posts of "do you know where I can get this" or "try Nolan". I did this to try and simplify the saleing and also not tax the IAP forum as much. Plus I could spend more time in the other forums and not be tied to my listings in the classified. Well soon I started seeing alot of post for stuff for sale that I sell and they were alot more expensive than I sell them for. I hate to see this and have even talked privately to members about it. How do I offer my products without flooding the forum with sales post? How do other members inform the new folks of a fair price for blanks without poluting another members post? We have new members here all the time and I know when I started out I had no idea the price of blanks or who to get them from. I sell products and strive to be know for only the highest quality blanks available and stuff you cant get anywhere else. At the same time I also want to offer the best possible price on the standard stuff. I also would really like to know if somebody is selling something of the same quality cheaper than me, that way I dont need to carry something that I cant offer at the best price. The finding, milling and selling of burl for me has become as big a passion as turning is and selling them allows me to continue doing it.
 
I think the classifieds, is pretty good as it stands, I would like to make sure that the adds are updated daily, I also think that a member linking to an add when answering a question regarding where can I find XXX is OK.
I think some of the quibbling over one member charging this and I'm charging this is a disservice to the entire community, especially in a non commercial forum such as Casual Conversation.
And the pouting of another members add should be a matter for censure, with the polluting member not allowed to use the classifieds for selling their goods.
 
Originally posted by bitshird

I think some of the quibbling over one member charging this and I'm charging this is a disservice to the entire community,
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Couldnt agree more and I think what ever is done should keep this in mind. I dont think there is an easy solution to this, but providing a service to the membership should be the ultimate goal.
 
FWIW, i dont mind people advertising and replying to orders bought or sold, but i would like to see the signatures of some people cut down by half, there is half a page of total crap in some of them and i find this distracting to say the least.
thank you.
 
Even from doing Bulk buy I always think about just how long a thread gets. over a dozen pages in a lot of cases. I have often wanted the entire thing to move to PM but do not really see an organized way to do that unless an offer was simply locked after ti was made. then people have to PM you to get in.
As for for profit sellers. Think of this as well. We have suppliers right here that actually interact with the members of the group. they are not only familiar with what we want but what we want to do with it. If not I have seen many times they will take the time to find out what the use will be and will go out of there way to get suitable materials tools or what have you. That is pretty custom service and what sort of value can you put on that. IF so and so sells something and somebody pasts questions about it I see no problem in them being able to make the sale. It has to work both ways, You can't expect suppliers to stay around and bend over backwards to meet the need and then put them down for trying to stay in business. I was around before all the bulk buys and interaction with the suppliers. And I would not want to go back to that.
 
On the group buys, since I did just organize one, I can say that I would NOT want to have to send out 50+ emails everytime I needed to update people on the status. Or have to keep track of 50+ emails coming in for orders. It's too easy for something to fall through the cracks in my email.

I guess we could do as Paul did and set up a free email account specifically to run the buy, but that doesn't get away from the updates.
 
Jeff: Since we're now at page 4 of this thread, there is really nothing that I can say that hasn't been said. However, since you asked for input, mine is to stay the course. I don't sell, but I've bought plenty using the classifieds here. When I am not looking for anything, I don't look at the classifieds. (Well, maybe some times, I can't resist. :)) But, I don't see how someone can be offended when I haven't seen anyone here pointing a gun to their head and forcing them to look.
 
Jeff-- I have a question-----I just posted a tread under penturning----Inlay--how I do it--am I selling or is the post just helping answer questions ???????? I did include where the wood came from and the info on the kit also---is that marketing or just added info.
 
Hi Jeff!

I know I have been quiet on this issue. That's not because I have some strong opinion on the subject, rather it's because I don't know what to think!

We didn't envision this place as a big commercial enterprise. Yet, one thing we all have in common is the buying of "stuff" to support our habit! We knew that buying and selling would, naturally, need to take place here, and we hoped that it would remain orderly. For the most part, it has.

But there have been two alarming trends recently that have pushed the boundaries of congenial commerce: 1) Marketing off of the classifieds forums, and 2) outlandish claims and prices. As for the first, there is nothing wrong with reminding people to keep their marketing efforts on the appropriate forum. If they refuse, and continue to violate the rules, there are sanctions available. As to the second, I have to say that for the most part we are all grown-ups around here. If you are buying something off the Internet, you had best be doing so with your eyes open! And if you buy something and feel that it does not live up to your expectations, deal with the vendor. We are not the police.

As much as we all get along here at the IAP, we are generally an open forum, and as such there is the potential for abuse. Sometimes we forget that this site is all part of the big, wide-open Internet. We all need to have a caution with our dealings here.

I have to say I like the idea of keeping the classifieds posts off the "Recent Posts" section of the front page. But then, I rarely look at that section anyway. As a matter of fact, I was not particularly aware of most of this problem until just recently because I choose not to look at those things that don't interest me. Even when reading a thread, if some post wanders into areas I have no interest in, I skip it.

I guess what this post comes down to is that, as always, you know you have my support, and I am glad to help if there is anything I can do! Oh, and there are these blanks I have been thinking of selling . . . ;)

Scott.
 
Well,

As one of the "guilty parties" of moving "advertising" out of the Ad house, I can only say, I will do whatever you wish. I'm not HERE to start trouble. So, assimilation would be the mode of the day.

HOWEVER, I don't want to get in a car with any of you who can't tell an ad from a street sign. When you read the billboard that tells you the restaurant you are seeking is a mile ahead, take a right and look for the SIGN, does that also offend you? No point in paying attention to it -- DO THE MANLY thing!!! GET LOST!!!!

Although the statistics are not at my fingertips, each day an "average American" encounters THOUSANDS of ads (more if you listen to the RADIO while you drive or are at work) In fact, we play the radio at our office. Is it reasonable to assume NO one here gets anything done, cause they can't resist LISTENING to all the ads???

If I make materials available as prizes or as IAP benefit auction materials, IS that an AD???? You Betcha!!!! SO, you want to ban that too??? OR move it to "classifieds"??? I should put in the IAP benefit, Ed4copies donated something, please see the classifieds for more information, but BUY your DONATION tickets HERE????? Won't this be a LITTLE confusing, when Lou adds his nibs and Nolan a nice burl and Mike a "lot" of brass ager........well, I hope I am making my point.

If not, here it is:

WE ALL ENCOUNTER ADVERTISING EVERY DAY, THOUSANDS OF TIMES AND WE SURVIVE IT, JUST FINE. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. THOSE WHO SELL PRODUCTS HERE ARE ALSO THE FIRST TO DONATE PRODUCTS. THIS MAKES SENSE, SINCE WE ARE, GENERALLY, THE ONES WHO HAVE PRODUCTS.

<center>
DUH</center>[:0][:0][:0]

Make whatever policy you wish, I will comply. But, the whole question exhibits the epitome of naivete. It seems most of the respondents here don't mind the "advertising" or product placement, you suppose they have become unresponsive to advertising --- what a surprise!!!

BTW, can I still call it a "Beall collet" in a thread, or will that be an ad for Beall products???[8D][8D][8D][8D]

This opinion, like all my opinions, is worth every penny you paid for it!!! Only this time, some of you HAVE paid for my products for which I AM grateful. THANK YOU.

(Soapbox placed under arm, and he walks "off-stage".)
 
Originally posted by Russianwolf

On the group buys, since I did just organize one, I can say that I would NOT want to have to send out 50+ emails everytime I needed to update people on the status. Or have to keep track of 50+ emails coming in for orders. It's too easy for something to fall through the cracks in my email.

I guess we could do as Paul did and set up a free email account specifically to run the buy, but that doesn't get away from the updates.
Click to expand...

I think this is a good point. I also think this would drastically cut down the number of people Willing to run group buys. I know the time and effort involved in doing a LARGE group buy and I also know that if that time and effort were increased even buy 25% due to having to send out emails most of us would have to SERIOUSLY consider if it would be worth the time taken away from our family, friends, businesses, turning, pets, lives ... etc in order to do something that is basically done to help others. I think what this would lead to is a few people getting together outside the forum and making "smaller group buys" which would effectively leave the bulk of the members without the ability to make purchases at the better rates obtained when someone jumps in and offers to donate their time to this particular cause.

On another note.... Jeff indicated that 35% of our posts have been related to sales in some way. We have aprox 5000 members? If there are an average of 2 posts per day per member that is 10,000 posts per day .. I don't have access to any statistics so I am simply throwing out some numbers here ...

I am wondering .. what percentage of complaints are there? Is this something that 4 or 5 people find annoying or is it something that 25% of the general active population of IAP has complained about?

I guess I just would hate to see a good group of people, who for the most part do try to provide other members with reasonable prices on items that they can't get elsewhere - or cheaper prices than they can get elsewhere whenever possible, miss out because a few of our clan might be able to just look the other way, or be given a tool to block something out .. etc. I don't think we can ever please every one - no matter how hard we try.

Mrs
 
Seems to me this thread and others like it take more bandwith and storage space than most of the ads. Keep em coming for me. Some of my best pen materials have come from our IAP suppliers and I want to know if someone is happy or unhappy with a product and how good the service is. It doesn't take a long time on this forum to determine who's opinions you feel comfortable with. Haven't been burned yet on a purchase here and that's more than I can say for other internet sites.
 
Originally posted by Daniel

Even from doing Bulk buy I always think about just how long a thread gets. over a dozen pages in a lot of cases. I have often wanted the entire thing to move to PM but do not really see an organized way to do that unless an offer was simply locked after ti was made. then people have to PM you to get in.
As for for profit sellers. Think of this as well. We have suppliers right here that actually interact with the members of the group. they are not only familiar with what we want but what we want to do with it. If not I have seen many times they will take the time to find out what the use will be and will go out of there way to get suitable materials tools or what have you. That is pretty custom service and what sort of value can you put on that. IF so and so sells something and somebody pasts questions about it I see no problem in them being able to make the sale. It has to work both ways, You can't expect suppliers to stay around and bend over backwards to meet the need and then put them down for trying to stay in business. I was around before all the bulk buys and interaction with the suppliers. And I would not want to go back to that.
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Originally posted by Russianwolf

On the group buys, since I did just organize one, I can say that I would NOT want to have to send out 50+ emails everytime I needed to update people on the status. Or have to keep track of 50+ emails coming in for orders. It's too easy for something to fall through the cracks in my email.

I guess we could do as Paul did and set up a free email account specifically to run the buy, but that doesn't get away from the updates.
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This is exactly why I set up a web page for the Box Buys I run. That way no one has to post "I want x number of boxes, PM me an invoice"
They place the order through PayPal and I get an order from them with exactly how many of each and the total. I have the few that prefer to pay by check or MO PM what they want.

As for advertising, I try to keep it in the correct forums although I may be guilty of mis posting some times. I'll try to keep from doing that, but as has been pointed out numerous times, if you don't want to buy anything, don't read the classified.

Or are some offended that I have my web sites in my sig line? I know I'm not the only one guilty of that.
 
I find it very helpful when some selling or marketing info is in another forum. For example when sameone posts in the Penturning forum and someone responds with an answer, it sometimes involves a "gizmo" that they can get from an IAP member that will help them. Or the response may tell them of a great resource (service or cost savings) that is available from another member. I find these little reminders very helpful. I don't think I have ever felt I was getting a hard sell from anyone in one of the other forums. Longer term members may remember who sells what but for myself, a newer member (or mybe just my memory isn't what it was), it is great info.

As far as the "got mine" posts, generally i like to see them as it speaks to the quality and service they are getting. If I don't want to know I just don't read it.

As far as people who may be here only to sell us stuff, that's OK. Personally I won't buy from someone on here unless I see they are an active memeber (I can see how many posts they have) and I have seen other members buying from them... but that's the same I do everywhere... buyer beware.

I don't see the need for any major changes.
 
Originally posted by jeff

...I've heard from several members lately ...
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(emphasis added)

A quick count of the two days of responses indicates that a huge majority of folks do not believe there is too much buying/selling/advertising going on. There are a lot of thoughts on ways to tweak the system (moving things off the "Recent Posts" listing, reducing the rote acknowledgements, etc.), but by my count count it is at least 10 to 1 believing that the problem doesn't exist or isn't burdensome.

It doesn't appear that the membership thinks it is broken. Until we have a significantly better way of handling it, why change a thing?
 
Originally posted by DCBluesman

It doesn't appear that the membership thinks it is broken. Until we have a significantly better way of handling it, why change a thing?
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I bow to your wisdom and insight.

20087305621_worship.gif
 
I don't sell much but I buy alot and 1/2 of what I buy here dosen't come from the classified, some comes from the SOYP when I spot a blank that X sells and the poster acknowledages the supplier of the blank. Am I guilty of posting in SOYP and giving credit to a supplier of the blank,kit etc. yes, and if some want to call that advertising I will plead guilty as charged, I'm also guilty of posting sometimes that this cactus,snake,worthless blank ect, I poured and the few people that are complaning might see even that as marketing well folks, I've never sold a single castus,snake or impregnated wood blank on this forum but have given for auctions,raffles,bashes many, many blanks. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you decide that acknowleding others on post is to much marketing we'll all have to comply but thats not going to be any help to members who are new or don't know another member has something that they might use. I think its time for the few to stop trying to rule the many......
 
As a seller who, of recent, has been mostly selling and not really contributing to further the education and benefit of the main membership, I feel compelled to respond more seriously than I did to Mudder.

When I first started participating here, I tried to order via PM and was told via PM to make my wishes known with a post to the thread. The justification I was given was the public communication served as a display by which all could judge the interaction and therefore each involved (buyers & sellers) would earn their reputations.
The idea made sense to me then and still does and I believe it's served the members of this forum well.
The idea of removing follow-ups to a classified Original Post from the "Recent Posts" scroll box is a good one provided it's easily accomplished and doesn't take Jeff's time away from accomplishing his larger goal of rolling out the new forum software.
Other than that, I'm a member of the `Ain't broke' bandwagon. I don't see a major issue crying for lots of attention within the classified section.

BTW, now that I've returned from vacation and Jenn's wedding, I'll be offering more stuff for sale --- so, stay tuned :D;)
 
Page 4 (continued) When I first got into the addiction all of my supplies came from Woodcraft. Until I found this site I was throwing my money away on overpriced items and never realized they were a reseller. I guess I was just blinded by what I wanted and they were the only ones I knew that carried the stuff I just had to have. Thanks to you and the members on IAP it is a very rare occasion that I go back to them. Without this site I never would have had the opportunity to turn some of the nicest pens I've ever made. I'm down here in deep South Texas and besides mesquite theres not a lot of variety on what I can turn, so about the only place I can go to without wearing out google or any of the other search engines is right here. My regular customers are all quite amazed at the variety of different materials available to me. Karls blanks, mesquitemans cactus just to name a couple. I enjoy scanning the assortment of items the latest posts show. If I see something I like, I buy it. If I see something that doesn't appeal to me, I just go on. My vote is to leave it the way it is. For those that think theres too much marketing on the lastest post, my feeling is just don't open it and go on.
 
Originally posted by ed4copies

Well,

As one of the "guilty parties" of moving "advertising" out of the Ad house, I can only say, I will do whatever you wish. I'm not HERE to start trouble. So, assimilation would be the mode of the day.

HOWEVER, I don't want to get in a car with any of you who can't tell an ad from a street sign. When you read the billboard that tells you the restaurant you are seeking is a mile ahead, take a right and look for the SIGN, does that also offend you? No point in paying attention to it -- DO THE MANLY thing!!! GET LOST!!!!

Although the statistics are not at my fingertips, each day an "average American" encounters THOUSANDS of ads (more if you listen to the RADIO while you drive or are at work) In fact, we play the radio at our office. Is it reasonable to assume NO one here gets anything done, cause they can't resist LISTENING to all the ads???

If I make materials available as prizes or as IAP benefit auction materials, IS that an AD???? You Betcha!!!! SO, you want to ban that too??? OR move it to "classifieds"??? I should put in the IAP benefit, Ed4copies donated something, please see the classifieds for more information, but BUY your DONATION tickets HERE????? Won't this be a LITTLE confusing, when Lou adds his nibs and Nolan a nice burl and Mike a "lot" of brass ager........well, I hope I am making my point.

If not, here it is:

WE ALL ENCOUNTER ADVERTISING EVERY DAY, THOUSANDS OF TIMES AND WE SURVIVE IT, JUST FINE. BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR. THOSE WHO SELL PRODUCTS HERE ARE ALSO THE FIRST TO DONATE PRODUCTS. THIS MAKES SENSE, SINCE WE ARE, GENERALLY, THE ONES WHO HAVE PRODUCTS.

<center>
DUH</center>[:0][:0][:0]

Make whatever policy you wish, I will comply. But, the whole question exhibits the epitome of naivete. It seems most of the respondents here don't mind the "advertising" or product placement, you suppose they have become unresponsive to advertising --- what a surprise!!!

BTW, can I still call it a "Beall collet" in a thread, or will that be an ad for Beall products???[8D][8D][8D][8D]

This opinion, like all my opinions, is worth every penny you paid for it!!! Only this time, some of you HAVE paid for my products for which I AM grateful. THANK YOU.

(Soapbox placed under arm, and he walks "off-stage".)
Click to expand...

Dawn had to help with this post as Ed doesn't know that many big words!! :D[}:)];)
 
Keep it like it is. I like the ads showing up in the recent posts list and if the title of the ad doesn't seem to be something I'm interested in at the time I don't open it. Just because a topic shows up in the recent post list doesn't mean you have to read it.
 
I like the fact that I can buy from people who use their products. I think we get better items and a great test site review by seeing the finished products. I say, dont change a thing.
 
Hi, I sell blanks, I buy blanks, I sell blanks, I buy blanks, I sell blanks, I buy blanks, in ind. classified.
I donate about 10 per cent of gross to forum,in the last couple of months since i have been selling. Is that not a good thing? (as Martha would say.) I would not change a thing. Carl
 
I don't think the classified area is broken. However, I think too many threads in other areas of the furoms get derailed by people pushing products, whether it is their own products or that of their buds.
 
Still being fairly new here I know one change I would like to see in the most valuable vendor list, for someone perhaps not familiar with who sells what,I went a little wacky trying to find who carried CA couldn't remember the name finally found it by going through the extra member submitted links.
I would like to see a little more info re the vendors on the the MVVL not just the names, what they normally sell even a simple wood-burls- CA or Acrylics and perhaps a link to a web page if available, just think it would make life a little easier for the new guys like me
 
Simply put, I like the classifieds.

If I could, I would buy everything for my hobby here.

My most frequented forums are
1. Casual Conversation
2. MVV
3. Business Classifieds
 
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