Have you ever tried to stabilize this?

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NittanyLion

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Tired of blow outs, I might try something different. I had these all glued up(epoxy), turned round, bits sharpened, skew sharpened,.......and then I wondered.......what If I put it in my chamber and put the Cactus Juice to it? Has anyone ever tried this? I wonder about the aluminum in the oven separating from the glue/Resin. Any experience before I possibly ruin a good set of blanks?
 

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Actually someone asked about this a while back and I said No, but Curtis came with the facts and said in fact you can. Not sure it would solve your problems.

Are you drilling all at once or stepping up your bits? I would think running a 1/8" bit to start and stepping up little by little may help. But then again I have no idea, I have never done this. Great job on those by the way.
 
Just to clarify, I said it would work when glued up with Titebond and that is from customer experience. I can not say how it will work with the epoxy and aluminum. Not sure what the heat will do to the epoxy.
 
Justturnin said:
Actually someone asked about this a while back and I said No, but Curtis came with the facts and said in fact you can. Not sure it would solve your problems.

Are you drilling all at once or stepping up your bits? I would think running a 1/8" bit to start and stepping up little by little may help. But then again I have no idea, I have never done this. Great job on those by the way.
Click to expand...

Chris,

Yes, I do step drill, starting at 3/16.... and sharpen regularly....sometimes 3 times a blank. My failure rate on a blank like this is about 40%....pretty high for all that work. I have just as many failures turning as drilling....probably more.

Curtis, I may cook a glob of hardened epoxy to see what happens. This should tell me what I need to know.
 
NittanyLion said:
Justturnin said:
Actually someone asked about this a while back and I said No, but Curtis came with the facts and said in fact you can. Not sure it would solve your problems.

Are you drilling all at once or stepping up your bits? I would think running a 1/8" bit to start and stepping up little by little may help. But then again I have no idea, I have never done this. Great job on those by the way.
Click to expand...

Chris,

Yes, I do step drill, starting at 3/16.... and sharpen regularly....sometimes 3 times a blank. My failure rate on a blank like this is about 40%....pretty high for all that work. I have just as many failures turning as drilling....probably more.

Curtis, I may cook a glob of hardened epoxy to see what happens. This should tell me what I need to know.
Click to expand...

Actually, what you should do is go glue identical wood and thickness to the same aluminium material let it dry and then stabilize, where I think you will run into troubles is with the cooking/setting of the juice, 90 minutes at 90°Celsius, a run to failure.

Unfortunately, the glues (adhesive products) that would cope with 10 times that, are commercial grade, are sold in large containers and therefore very expensive. Just think at some of the glues used to glue stuff on the roads bitumen or cement, the glues that companies like Hilti and Ramset use with their fasteners and you will have products that you may never dreamed off.

If I was to dedicate my time to these type of segmented blanks, I would certainly look for these type adhesives, it may be that they cost even high, would endup more economical than all the time and money wasted with failed attempts not counting the frustration of it all...!

You will be surprised what you will find when you start searching/looking...!:biggrin:

Cheers
George
 
Well.....I glued up some pieces of wood with epoxy and baked them at 400 degrees for 20 minutes. Immediately out of the oven, they separated with ease. The epoxy turned to more of a powdery substance when agitated. I left the other half of the blank cool down, pulled apart the sections and had the same results.

I think it's safe to say that stabilization will not help. This was just a shot in the dark......I agree, an industrial epoxy/glue is probably the way to go. Luckily I have a supplier at work and I'm going to explore that route for a better high strength epoxy that isn't a typical off the shelf item.
 
According to JB Weld: "Original J-B Weld can withstand a constant temperature of 500º F. The maximum temperature threshold is approximately 600º F for a short term (10 minutes)."

They also mention "Because of the extreme temperatures of exhaust systems, we do not recommend J-B Weld for use on exhaust manifolds and catalytic converters. Nor do we recommend the product for repairs within the combustion chamber.

However, in areas where the continuous temperature is less than 450º F, we do recommend our HighHeat epoxy putty stick.".

Of course, this epoxy is a dark gray to black color.
 
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NittanyLion said:
Well.....I glued up some pieces of wood with epoxy and baked them at 400 degrees for 20 minutes. Immediately out of the oven, they separated with ease. The epoxy turned to more of a powdery substance when agitated. I left the other half of the blank cool down, pulled apart the sections and had the same results.

I think it's safe to say that stabilization will not help. This was just a shot in the dark......I agree, an industrial epoxy/glue is probably the way to go. Luckily I have a supplier at work and I'm going to explore that route for a better high strength epoxy that isn't a typical off the shelf item.
Click to expand...

Since cactus juice is cooked at 200F you need to retest at that temp. You may get a different result.
 
What would be wrong with hitting it with thin CA as you turn? No worries about heat at all. If you are sharpening 3 times while you turn, I question your tool technique. Are you using a skew and shear cutting? I will turn 5 or 6 pens before resharpening my skew.
 
"Since cactus juice is cooked at 200F you need to retest at that temp. You may get a different result."

Sorry, fat fingers on an Iphone.... I did cook it at 200F.

"What would be wrong with hitting it with thin CA as you turn? No worries about heat at all. If you are sharpening 3 times while you turn, I question your tool technique. Are you using a skew and shear cutting? I will turn 5 or 6 pens before resharpening my skew."

I always soak a blank like this with thin regularly while turning....but it is still affected by heat. There are 6 pieces of aluminum in each blank. They are hard ob both drill bits and a skew. Neither get dull, but razor sharp will help prevent blowouts while both turning and drilling.
 
I know this isn't what you asked, but what about wrapping it
up in twine before you drill? That should help hold it together
 
NewLondon88 said:
I know this isn't what you asked, but what about wrapping it
up in twine before you drill? That should help hold it together
Click to expand...

I do this occasionally....I've tried all the methods: twine, Popsicle sticks, duct tape, etc.....the glue still fails, it just gets held together. I guess I'm just looking for a better glue for segmenting.
 
If you think it is the heat could you use a coolant? Maybe some Mineral Spirits to keep it cool? You could use a small medicine syringe to squirt it in the hole as you drill.
 
I still have a 3 in 5 success rate with segments. Usually, doing elliptical cuts, it's becomes a shot in the dark. Both CA and Devcon 5 minute epoxy have failed. Couple of notes to success...maybe; Of course, scuff both sides of the metal and wipe with alcohol, DNA or mineral spirits. Even clamping pressure without to much squeeze out. I've found that rounding the blanks over prior to turn lowers the impact and may lessen separation. Turning at 3K+ help minimize odd catches that are almost inherent. Also have much better luck with the carbide type cutters specifically the 1/2" style, I'll check the radius shape in the future.
I've had similar issues with heat delamination with both epoxy and CA. System 3 has an epoxy that supports moderate temps but I've yet to try it.
Keep it up, I'm sure there is nothing new in here, just thinking through my fingers!!
 
I did a similar blank two days ago, I had trouble while drilling, and worse I used steel flashing for the metal insert, I had to drill by steps and wiped a wet cloth on the drill bit for cooling it down, I drilled on the lathe. For turning I used a gouge and then a skew, didn't have too much trouble, what I don't remember if I used CA or yellow carpenter glue. At the end I used CA for the finish
 
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