Grizzly Tools, Yes/No?

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PenTurner said, in response to one of my posts: "....to say they are coming from the same factory I find hard to believe."

Perhaps you would like to rephrase that so it does not sound so much like you are calling me a liar.
Here is the factory: http://www.geetech.com.tw/

As far as other steps are concerned. I have talked with someone who toured the factory. Many of the Jet and Griz products are virtually identical. There are some differences with some products.
Before I purchased my Grizzly G0632, I had extensive communications with reps from both Grizzly and Jet with respect to the differences between the G0632 and 1642. Those differences have been posted and discussed here several times, I won't go into them again. Most differences are, really, in the imagination of the viewer.
If you noticed, many of the anti-Griz folks preface their comments with: "it seems like" or "I believe", etc. Facts can get in the way of reasoned discussion.
 
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Curtis, People that buy tools to actually "Make" money don't count. We all buy tools to spend money ;) Actually I have spent quite a bit of time on your side of the tracks and I do realize why $300 circular saws make perfectly good since. I own two of them. I also have $450 nail guns $60 hammers and all that. When your pay check depends on it cheap is not acceptable. I also know that a lot of that experience comes into play even when I choose my toys. But it is experience that makes the difference. I believe you have to have used a $60 hammer for lots of hours to finally realize why it is worth $60. actually it is more like use a $60 hammer for a while than try to use a $12 one you will feel the difference instantly. then you can start seeing why a $750 lathe can be better than a $250 even if they look exactly the same. Until someone has that experience all you can really say to them is. There really is a difference. when you tighten something it stays tight, they hold up longer, they are balanced better and are more precise. tools get sharper in the first place and stay that way longer. when the gauge says 1 and 1/16 inch it means 1 and 1/16 inch. etc. Just the other day my son was fighting to loosen a nut. I went in my shop and got him my craftsman wrench and he loosened it on the first try. I just looked at him and said, one more lesson on why good tools are worth the cost. that one wrench cost more than your entire set of wrenches, but it also works. even in something as simple as a wrench, quality makes a difference. and quality comes at a price. this does not mean you need to always buy the most expensive tool. it does mean you need to be able to recognize what makes a quality tool and what does not and you can pretty much bet you will not see much of it in the lowest priced tools.

MesquiteMan said:
I am an admitted tool snob. I believe in buying the best you can afford and that there is a huge difference in quality in most of the better name brands. I do make my living with tools and will not use cheap stuff.

That said, last Thanksgiving, Grizzly had one heck of a Black Friday sale and then Microsoft Live had a really good cash back on anything bought with buy it now on E-bay. I then also had a coupon code for using Paypal. The deal allowed me to stack all of this together and I really wanted an 8" jointer so I took the plunge. I got a Grizzly GO586 for around $450 delivered. It was too good of a deal to pass up and I figured that if it was not up to snuff quality wise, I could always sell it on Craigs list for what I paid.

I have been pleased with the jointer considering what I paid for it. It is certainly not the quality of my custom cabinet maker's Delta 8" jointer but then again, I did not pay $1800 for it either. For my advanced hobbyist needs, it does the job very well.

The fit and finish is pretty good and it works nicely. You can certainly tell the difference in that it uses a cheap chinese motor and the controls and castings are not nearly the quality of the Delta I mentioned. It does joint a board very nicely, though and was a big improvement over my little 6" I had before.

I would certainly buy it again at the price I paid. Not sure I would pay the $800+ regular price for it, though.
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Daniel said:
Frank, I followed your link and was actually surprised to find all the brand name logos lined up together at the bottom of this page. http://www.geetech.com.tw/sp.html
If that doesn't make the point then nothing does.
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Daniel, there are guys who would rather have a heart attack than admit brands like Powermatic, General, SawStop and others come from China and not the good ole U.S.A.
But, that's another gripe session.....
 
Rifleman1776 said:
Daniel, there are guys who would rather have a heart attack than admit brands like Powermatic, General, SawStop and others come from China and not the good ole U.S.A.
But, that's another gripe session.....
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My Delta Unisaw did not come from China! It is one that used a US made motor, US made cast iron top, and US made trunions. I am sure there are some parts on it made in China but it was assembled and most of the components are US made! Not sure that is the case with the Unisaw now, though.
 
Daniel said:
Frank, I followed your link and was actually surprised to find all the brand name logos lined up together at the bottom of this page. http://www.geetech.com.tw/sp.html
If that doesn't make the point then nothing does.
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Daniel, that is a fact of life these days. Not saying I like it. I do wish all my purchases, tool and non-tool, were items made in the US but it just ain't so anymore.
To analyze why would stray into the political arena. Upside is that companies like Geetech are building state of the art factories and turning out quality products.
 
Daniel said:
Frank, I followed your link and was actually surprised to find all the brand name logos lined up together at the bottom of this page. http://www.geetech.com.tw/sp.html
If that doesn't make the point then nothing does.
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I've worked for a company that made products for at least four major brands, and it was always amusing to hear people talk about how much better the expensive brand was than the cheap ones when I'd just watched them roll off the same line and be divided up more-or-less randomly for final branding and packaging.
 
KD5NRH said:
I've worked for a company that made products for at least four major brands, and it was always amusing to hear people talk about how much better the expensive brand was than the cheap ones when I'd just watched them roll off the same line and be divided up more-or-less randomly for final branding and packaging.
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That is true with all kinds of products. I once read a review in an upscale magazine about some new hiking boots. The reviewer said they could be purchased at a certain upscale store for about $199.00, another well known store for about $100.00, then several more all with lower prices until he got to Wal-Mart, $19.96. The identical shoe in all stores. Label and snob appeal were the only differences.
We must look at the products and make the best judgement decisions possible for ourselves. Labels and prices are, IMHO, a poor guide to quality.
 
Daniel said:
Frank, I followed your link and was actually surprised to find all the brand name logos lined up together at the bottom of this page. http://www.geetech.com.tw/sp.html
If that doesn't make the point then nothing does.
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Wow ,check out that powermatic logo, how come you guys are not comparing Grizzly to Powermatic ????? I never seen a powermatic lathe clone at grizzly.

I don't know much but can tell you this ,worked in an industrial chromeplating plant that contracted with the local chain saw plant ,Anyway we would chrome plate both cylinders and pistons. the cylinders went in the better saws and the pistons went in the cheaper saws. You see you can't use chrome plated piston with a chrome plated cylinder. Its one or the other.

One more thing a company that has a good warranty is pretty confident in thier product. grizzly 1 year ----Jet 5 years. I can see the difference even before buying.
 
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Mac said:
Wow ,check out that powermatic logo, how come you guys are not comparing Grizzly to Powermatic ????? I never seen a powermatic lathe clone at grizzly.

I don't know much but can tell you this ,worked in an industrial chromeplating plant that contracted with the local chain saw plant ,Anyway we would chrome plate both cylinders and pistons. the cylinders went in the better saws and the pistons went in the cheaper saws. You see you can't use chrome plated piston with a chrome plated cylinder. Its one or the other.

One more thing a company that has a good warranty is pretty confident in thier product. grizzly 1 year ----Jet 5 years. I can see the difference even before buying.
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Warranty is, indeed, an important factor in making a purchasing decision.
What and how a warranty is honored should also be considered.
For me, the one year with Griz is absolute and hassle free. This from experience.
In my case, the Griz store is 2 1/2 hours from my home and near where my son lives so I am up there frequently.
The closest stocking Jet dealership is more than six hours from my home.
My experience with most products is that if something is wrong, or going to go wrong, it us usually almost immediately.
Again, those are factors involved in the decision making process. It doesn't necessarily mean one is better/worse than the other.
I know what you are saying about motors and such. I bought a $125.00 Homelite chainsaw. It failed after two years of light use. I then bought a $350.00 Stihl and expect it to outlast me.
 
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Rifleman1776 said:
What and how a warranty is honored should also be considered.
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+1 I've dealt with a lot of products that have long but useless warranties. Either you can't get them to honor the warranty, or you have to pay shipping both ways at a significant portion of what it would cost to buy a lightly used replacement.
 
mickr said:
...generally the more you pay the better the tool...are you a hobbiest? Or a pro?
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This may or may not be true... you can pay big dollars and still get a crappy piece of equipment.. or you can lay out little and get an excellent tool... quality no long equates to price. Granted some cheap tools are just that Cheap...

And now-a-days, so many of our tools are coming from mega factories that turn out a multitude of brands... just different paint job.
 
Pen_Turner said:
Yeah the power switch on mine was GARBAGE too. I also had poor handles as well
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I think the switches on most of our tools are poorly designed... I've had the switch go out on my HF dust collector, the HF belt sander, Jet 1014 lathe, Delta table saw... they are all designed the same way and the constant flipping on/off seems to wear and cause the plastic pieces to wear or break.
 
TellicoTurning said:
This may or may not be true... you can pay big dollars and still get a crappy piece of equipment.. or you can lay out little and get an excellent tool... quality no long equates to price. Granted some cheap tools are just that Cheap...

And now-a-days, so many of our tools are coming from mega factories that turn out a multitude of brands... just different paint job.
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Case in point:
Still by far the best tool in my shop..... BT3100 Ryobi Tablesaw for $250(brand new from HD) and I'll put it's output against those of ANY table saw with the stock blade. And it's never given me a lick of trouble.

I've used a unisaw in my uncle's shop and even one of the fancy Laguna saws at one of the Navy Hobby shops, and my BT cuts as good as or better than both.
 
KD5NRH said:
+1 I've dealt with a lot of products that have long but useless warranties. Either you can't get them to honor the warranty, or you have to pay shipping both ways at a significant portion of what it would cost to buy a lightly used replacement.
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I looked up the Jet five year warranty out of curiosity. Made a very surprising discovery.
Their warranty states, among other limitations: "This warranty does not cover defects...... due to normal wear-and-tear.......".
I guess that means if you don't use it during the five year period they might honor the warranty.
 
Pen_Turner said:
I'm honestly NOT trying to be a jerk here but, IF THEY COME off the same assembly line, then why is there such a HUGE difference in build quality? Even Curtis said in the post above you that He could certainly tell the difference in the Cheap motor, controls and castings in his grizzly and it was not nearly the quality as the name brand tools. Will it joint a board, yes, but to say they are coming from the same factory I find hard to believe. I DO NOT have a problem with people liking their Grizzly tools. They seem to get the job done for some of us but to put them in the same class as Jet, thats a little much.
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You have to remember that each line will have their own specs... I worked for a company in CA years back that made an electronics switchboard.. this looked like a mini fridge that sat behind the receptionist desk and handled the switching of the phones... they're all hidden away now and look like an open panel, but ours was the latest thing on the market.... at the time, we made them under our own name and for a number of re-sellers under their name.... some of them had different specs as to how the boards were put together and what they were supposed to do.

And if you remember when Sears had their own line of appliances and sold only their line and was considered to be top of the line... they were made by other manufacturers, but had high specs than the manufacturer.

Same will be true for the machines and tools we buy...
 
Rifleman1776 said:
That is true with all kinds of products. I once read a review in an upscale magazine about some new hiking boots. The reviewer said they could be purchased at a certain upscale store for about $199.00, another well known store for about $100.00, then several more all with lower prices until he got to Wal-Mart, $19.96. The identical shoe in all stores. Label and snob appeal were the only differences.
We must look at the products and make the best judgement decisions possible for ourselves. Labels and prices are, IMHO, a poor guide to quality.
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Frank,
That's funny... I've used this example a number of times... back in the mid '80's I was in partnership with a group of guys... we were actually an export packing and shipping company, but with ties to several companies overseas that exported to the US. Three of my partners were of Jordanian descent with brothers and cousins all over the world. One of our connections shipped shirts made in the IZOD knit style... the factory our contact worked at actually made the IZOD shirt, but they also made an unbranded shirt that we could get shipped, landed and duty paid into the US for $2.42 per shirt.. same shirt as the IZOD, but without the alligator. BTW because of duty regs, the IZOD shirt with the alligator cost $0.05 more in duty because it was "adorned".
In 1985 the IZOD shirt sold retail in most of the normal retail stores - Mervyns, Sears, Macy's etc... for $18 to $30....
The same shirt without the alligator was between $10 and $15.

As I said earlier, Price has nothing to do with quality any more...it becomes a matter of personal preference.
 
Rifleman1776 said:
I looked up the Jet five year warranty out of curiosity. Made a very surprising discovery.
Their warranty states, among other limitations: "This warranty does not cover defects...... due to normal wear-and-tear.......".
I guess that means if you don't use it during the five year period they might honor the warranty.
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Look at pretty much any warranty and it will exclude NORMAL wear and tear. Warranties are for DEFECTS, not use.
 
Folks, I am getting weary of this Grizzly hate thread.
If you want to hate Grizzly without having facts at hand to back up your emotions, feel free to do so.
But, I would ask the mods to look carefully at the messages that say "I don't believe...." after I have posted links and references to support a statement. I don't appreciate being called a liar.
As for the Grizzly G0632 and Jet 1642, there are differences that have been discussed in the past. I have pointed out those researched differences.
But, in my opinion, there are no gross differences, I have the G0632 and have seen the 1642. Except for color, the differences cannot been seen.
I do understand that some of the Griz hate comes from the fact that the company founder and owner is of mid-eastern ethnicity. If you want to hate him and his company for that reason, I can't stop you. But, do know, he is a naturalized American and he supports American traditional values. Not the least of which is the 2nd Amendment.
If you want to hate for the sake of hating, go ahead, I'm not your judge. Spend your money where you will.
But, please do not try to advise others on their tool purchases based on your unreasoned beliefs.
 
Rifleman1776 said:
Folks, I am getting weary of this Grizzly hate thread.
If you want to hate Grizzly without having facts at hand to back up your emotions, feel free to do so.
But, I would ask the mods to look carefully at the messages that say "I don't believe...." after I have posted links and references to support a statement. I don't appreciate being called a liar.
As for the Grizzly G0632 and Jet 1642, there are differences that have been discussed in the past. I have pointed out those researched differences.
But, in my opinion, there are no gross differences, I have the G0632 and have seen the 1642. Except for color, the differences cannot been seen.
I do understand that some of the Griz hate comes from the fact that the company founder and owner is of mid-eastern ethnicity. If you want to hate him and his company for that reason, I can't stop you. But, do know, he is a naturalized American and he supports American traditional values. Not the least of which is the 2nd Amendment.
If you want to hate for the sake of hating, go ahead, I'm not your judge. Spend your money where you will.
But, please do not try to advise others on their tool purchases based on your unreasoned beliefs.
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Frank, it seems that your arguing with yourself there. There hasn't been any hate on Grizzly for over two pages back. Not even sure where the Middle Eastern stuff came from, but whatever.
 
Rifleman1776 said:
I looked up the Jet five year warranty out of curiosity. Made a very surprising discovery.
Their warranty states, among other limitations: "This warranty does not cover defects...... due to normal wear-and-tear.......".
I guess that means if you don't use it during the five year period they might honor the warranty.
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The next part makes it pretty much irrelevant for most here anyway: "Five Year Warranties do not cover woodworking (WW) products used for commercial, industrial or educational purposes. Woodworking products with Five Year Warranties that are used for commercial, industrial or education purposes revert to a One Year Warranty."

Make a pen with the intent to sell it, and you're using the equipment for commercial purposes. Email them for warranty support on a 15-month-old lathe using an address like bubba@bubbaswoodturning.net and you might find your warranty expired.
 
KD5NRH said:
The next part makes it pretty much irrelevant for most here anyway: "Five Year Warranties do not cover woodworking (WW) products used for commercial, industrial or educational purposes. Woodworking products with Five Year Warranties that are used for commercial, industrial or education purposes revert to a One Year Warranty."

Make a pen with the intent to sell it, and you're using the equipment for commercial purposes. Email them for warranty support on a 15-month-old lathe using an address like bubba@bubbaswoodturning.net and you might find your warranty expired.
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I think they could only prove that if you bought it tax exempt with a business license.
 
Technically you can't get tax exempt on items you are not reselling. At least not around my parts. Most tools are expected be have taxes paid since you are not reselling them to a customer. Most out of state websites do not charge sales tax over the internet and most states require a use tax on the other end.

I know when I worked for one company we had a policy about business use of our products not being covered, for example lifetime brake pads for fleet vehicles like taxis. We almost never enforced that warranty. We considered it good customer service to just take care of our customers.

I don't know about the companies that make our woodworking tools. I know that if I bought something brand new I would probably register it under my business name with these companies because I write it off on my taxes. I would hope that the companies would go above and beyond to take care of there customers but I know that is not always the case.
 
My FIL and I share a shop and we have a Grizzly bandsaw. The shaft on the lower wheel sheared off one day and they were able to get us the part we needed quickly. The saw works well for what we use it for but there are better quality saws out there.
 
This has been a 'hoot' to watch. All I know is, I wouldn't just go by what just one 'sight' had to share. Check out more places and get an opinion.
 
OK, here is my pennies worth... I have a Grizzly lathe for my larger work and a Steel City mini for pens and small stuff. I love my Grizzly and the only issue I have ever had with it was a blown fuse. They were quite helpful when I contacted them but to be fair that was years and years ago. I would buy Grizzly again but like many others I too shop around and try to get the most bang for my buck. When I buy a tool I expect it to last me years and take daily heavy use. So it has to last. I have been very happy with Jet, Steel City and a few others as well. If I were looking for a tool now I would look around and compare options and get the most options and best quality for the least price, not just look for the lowest dollar sign. Just my humble opinion.
 
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