Gent/Statesman Jrnib compatibility, NOT.

[philb]

Just noticed this thread after I've run into the same problem!

Bought a group of Rollerball pens, as I knew I had fountain sections spare and could easily swap over! Not so! The new section thread isn't even close to the old one, thought it might of just been debris in the threads as I've had that before, but it's just a completely different thread!

I really like the ability to interchange sections between Jr.Gents, Statesman and Retros. Customers like the ability if they want that one can be changed from a rollerball to fountain, and simply!

Does anyone know if there's a simple way to find out which kit is which before purchase! Also are the newer threaded kits no longer Dayacom, as I see people mentioning different manufacturers?

Cheers

 

[sbell111]

For most users of this kit this is a non issue. Only those who want to go back and forth have any problems.

That isn't exactly true.

Anyone who has a pen returned with a maintenance problem is going to have a problem because they won't be able to get parts for any jr gent 2 that they've ever sold. Given that the jr g 2 isn't a very robust pen, that's a considerable number of issues that everyone is going to have to deal with one way or the other.

 

[ed4copies]

Just noticed this thread after I've run into the same problem!

Bought a group of Rollerball pens, as I knew I had fountain sections spare and could easily swap over! Not so! The new section thread isn't even close to the old one, thought it might of just been debris in the threads as I've had that before, but it's just a completely different thread!

I really like the ability to interchange sections between Jr.Gents, Statesman and Retros. Customers like the ability if they want that one can be changed from a rollerball to fountain, and simply!

Does anyone know if there's a simple way to find out which kit is which before purchase! Also are the newer threaded kits no longer Dayacom, as I see people mentioning different manufacturers?

Cheers

Hey Phil!! I had the same thought, but then it occurred to me that every little baggie says "Dayacom" on it. But I just checked our newest shipment, one plating says "Taiwan" but no longer says "Dayacom".

I suspect a transition is taking place.

 

[Smitty37]

Just noticed this thread after I've run into the same problem!

Bought a group of Rollerball pens, as I knew I had fountain sections spare and could easily swap over! Not so! The new section thread isn't even close to the old one, thought it might of just been debris in the threads as I've had that before, but it's just a completely different thread!

I really like the ability to interchange sections between Jr.Gents, Statesman and Retros. Customers like the ability if they want that one can be changed from a rollerball to fountain, and simply!

Does anyone know if there's a simple way to find out which kit is which before purchase! Also are the newer threaded kits no longer Dayacom, as I see people mentioning different manufacturers?

Cheers

The short answer to that is no! Some sellers will tell you who the manufacturer is - many, if not most, will not. And the truth of the matter is, most buyers don't care.

There are hundreds of sellers many of whom will be buying from the same supplier(s), some will make modifications. I sell several kits that are modifications of kits others sell. Some of them can interchange parts, some can't but by looking you won't know that.

 

[Smitty37]

Just noticed this thread after I've run into the same problem!

Bought a group of Rollerball pens, as I knew I had fountain sections spare and could easily swap over! Not so! The new section thread isn't even close to the old one, thought it might of just been debris in the threads as I've had that before, but it's just a completely different thread!

I really like the ability to interchange sections between Jr.Gents, Statesman and Retros. Customers like the ability if they want that one can be changed from a rollerball to fountain, and simply!

Does anyone know if there's a simple way to find out which kit is which before purchase! Also are the newer threaded kits no longer Dayacom, as I see people mentioning different manufacturers?

Cheers

Hey Phil!! I had the same thought, but then it occurred to me that every little baggie says "Dayacom" on it. But I just checked our newest shipment, one plating says "Taiwan" but no longer says "Dayacom".

I suspect a transition is taking place.

I'd venture a bet you're right - but who is making the change????

Dayacom or your supplier?

On their own website Dayacom sellsl what they call unbranded kits (still marked made in Taiwan) but the packaging does not say Dayacom. Those kits sell at a lower price and are said (to me personally by Dayacom) to be "essentially the same" as their regular kits. I know that in some cases you have to make a very liberal interpretation of "essentially" to get there.

 

[jsolie]

Another thing I noticed for the rollerballs, apart from the packaging not saying Dayacom anymore, is the inclusion of a Schneider refill instead of a Schmidt. Also the feel of the little parts bags was different--thinner, less robust. There was also some difference in the hardware that was pressed into the pen bodies, mainly the little trim rings. The were affixed to end coupler and the nib coupler, not loose like in the past.

 

[Smitty37]

For most users of this kit this is a non issue. Only those who want to go back and forth have any problems.

That isn't exactly true.

Anyone who has a pen returned with a maintenance problem is going to have a problem because they won't be able to get parts for any jr gent 2 that they've ever sold. Given that the jr g 2 isn't a very robust pen, that's a considerable number of issues that everyone is going to have to deal with one way or the other.

I agree Steve, but part of this problem is cultural, western society has largely become "throw away" when it breaks. Few things are built to last decades and many things cost much more to fix than to replace. I'm afraid a lot of that has found it's way into pens (i.e. bic, papermate, etc designed to be chucked when they run out of ink.) and that is going to impact the manufacturer's attitude. Some of the kits I sell are made by a manufacturer who also makes millions of the throwaway promotional varieties. I'm not sure what we (pen turners) are going to be able to do about that.

 

[edstreet]

I'd venture a bet you're right - but who is making the change????

Dayacom or your supplier?

On their own website Dayacom sellsl what they call unbranded kits (still marked made in Taiwan) but the packaging does not say Dayacom. Those kits sell at a lower price and are said (to me personally by Dayacom) to be "essentially the same" as their regular kits. I know that in some cases you have to make a very liberal interpretation of "essentially" to get there.

That answer has already been published earlier in this thread.

I agree Steve, but part of this problem is cultural, western society has largely become "throw away" when it breaks. Few things are built to last decades and many things cost much more to fix than to replace. I'm afraid a lot of that has found it's way into pens (i.e. bic, papermate, etc designed to be chucked when they run out of ink.) and that is going to impact the manufacturer's attitude. Some of the kits I sell are made by a manufacturer who also makes millions of the throwaway promotional varieties. I'm not sure what we (pen turners) are going to be able to do about that.

Social psychology values aside the truth of the matter on this is it's more advantageous to the manufactures from a socioeconomic standpoint to produce an inferior product made with low cost materials and low cost labor and yield high repeat purchases than to product fewer quantity, much higher quality and much higher value items.

For most users of this kit this is a non issue. Only those who want to go back and forth have any problems.

That isn't exactly true.

Anyone who has a pen returned with a maintenance problem is going to have a problem because they won't be able to get parts for any jr gent 2 that they've ever sold. Given that the jr g 2 isn't a very robust pen, that's a considerable number of issues that everyone is going to have to deal with one way or the other.

This has already been brought up earlier in this thread and even the company who's selling the product has weighed in on the matter. The only real viable solution is to find another product and supplier(?)

Just noticed this thread after I've run into the same problem!

Bought a group of Rollerball pens, as I knew I had fountain sections spare and could easily swap over! Not so! The new section thread isn't even close to the old one, thought it might of just been debris in the threads as I've had that before, but it's just a completely different thread!

I really like the ability to interchange sections between Jr.Gents, Statesman and Retros. Customers like the ability if they want that one can be changed from a rollerball to fountain, and simply!

Does anyone know if there's a simple way to find out which kit is which before purchase! Also are the newer threaded kits no longer Dayacom, as I see people mentioning different manufacturers?

Cheers

This to has been brought up several times in this thread with several voicing great concerns in that direction as well.

I have posted some very viable ways to finding out who makes each kit in another thread.

 

[PenMan1]

They could just as easily change the name on the bag from Dayacom to T.U.R.D. instead of Tiawan.

A Totally Unreliable Redesigned Disaster . They won't be getting any more of my money. 30 percent price increase, and a 75 percent quality decrease.

 

[Smitty37]

I'd venture a bet you're right - but who is making the change????

Dayacom or your supplier?

On their own website Dayacom sellsl what they call unbranded kits (still marked made in Taiwan) but the packaging does not say Dayacom. Those kits sell at a lower price and are said (to me personally by Dayacom) to be "essentially the same" as their regular kits. I know that in some cases you have to make a very liberal interpretation of "essentially" to get there.

That answer has already been published earlier in this thread.

I agree Steve, but part of this problem is cultural, western society has largely become "throw away" when it breaks. Few things are built to last decades and many things cost much more to fix than to replace. I'm afraid a lot of that has found it's way into pens (i.e. bic, papermate, etc designed to be chucked when they run out of ink.) and that is going to impact the manufacturer's attitude. Some of the kits I sell are made by a manufacturer who also makes millions of the throwaway promotional varieties. I'm not sure what we (pen turners) are going to be able to do about that.

Social psychology values aside the truth of the matter on this is it's more advantageous to the manufactures from a socioeconomic standpoint to produce an inferior product made with low cost materials and low cost labor and yield high repeat purchases than to product fewer quantity, much higher quality and much higher value items.

For most users of this kit this is a non issue. Only those who want to go back and forth have any problems.

That isn't exactly true.

Anyone who has a pen returned with a maintenance problem is going to have a problem because they won't be able to get parts for any jr gent 2 that they've ever sold. Given that the jr g 2 isn't a very robust pen, that's a considerable number of issues that everyone is going to have to deal with one way or the other.

This has already been brought up earlier in this thread and even the company who's selling the product has weighed in on the matter. The only real viable solution is to find another product and supplier(?)

Just noticed this thread after I've run into the same problem!

Bought a group of Rollerball pens, as I knew I had fountain sections spare and could easily swap over! Not so! The new section thread isn't even close to the old one, thought it might of just been debris in the threads as I've had that before, but it's just a completely different thread!

I really like the ability to interchange sections between Jr.Gents, Statesman and Retros. Customers like the ability if they want that one can be changed from a rollerball to fountain, and simply!

Does anyone know if there's a simple way to find out which kit is which before purchase! Also are the newer threaded kits no longer Dayacom, as I see people mentioning different manufacturers?

Cheers

This to has been brought up several times in this thread with several voicing great concerns in that direction as well.

I have posted some very viable ways to finding out who makes each kit in another thread.

No it hasn't, my question and statement were in response to a specific post. And, Ed's post did not state which supplier he was referring to - he represents at least 2 and perhaps all three of the big guys.

Ed I have no idea where in the world you get that idea, according to that thought, everything we buy that could be made cheaper would be - and that just isn't so, as anyone who has ever had a job in manufacturing can attest to. Also, selling junk is a good way to reduce not increase sales, few things are purchased because we can't live without them, and personally I will happily live without anything that I think of as junk. That does not change the throw away attitude...or the fact that fixing something might cost a lot more than replacing it.

 

[sbell111]

Ed-

Please don't attempt to be the arbiter of whether someone's comment has or hasn't been discussed as you aren't very good at that job. As near as I can tell, neither my comment nor Smitty's was actually previously discussed. If you'd rather not see all of these extraneous posts, find your way out of the thread, or put all of us on 'ignore'.

 

[edstreet]

Ed-

Please don't attempt to be the arbiter of whether someone's comment has or hasn't been discussed as you aren't very good at that job. As near as I can tell, neither my comment nor Smitty's was actually previously discussed. If you'd rather not see all of these extraneous posts, find your way out of the thread, or put all of us on 'ignore'.

Ok lets see here ....

Hi all,
My name is Ben Williams, VP Operations at Craft Supplies USA.
I apologize for any confusion that this situation has caused you. It seems I have not done a very good job of educating our technical staff as to what is going on with these pens. As such, some misinformation has been passed along. Hopefully, I can clear a few things up.
It is true that we have changed manufacturers recently, but only for the Jr. Gentlemen's II Pen.
The new manufacturer did indeed use a different thread on the nib, and we are working through the old stock. Unfortunately, this will take a bit of time. However, when we have worked through the old stock, the nibs will be interchangeable once again.
The Jr. Statesman II Pen, Gentlemen's Pen and Statesman Pen are all still coming from the same manufacturer.
However, on the Jr Statesman II pen, the manufacturer DID change the nib threads about a year ago, and we are still working through some of the old stock. We are through 99% of the old stock, but do have a few still here. As such, some of the nibs are still not interchangeable, but will be within a matter of weeks.
For 95% of our customers this is not a problem, but I recognize it has caused some real frustration for a number of you, especially those that sell the pens they make. I apologize. For those of you that this is an issue, my suggestion would be that you call in and place your order through one of our Technicians (now that they too understand what is going on). They will be able to double check your order and can make sure that the threads are interchangeable. Unfortunately, there will be some pens that we do not yet have the new thread styles in stock, but at least the Tech can let you know that before you finalize your order. I realize this is a pain for you. I wish there was a better way. Unfortunately we just have to get through the old stock so that it is no longer an issue.
If I can be of further assistance, I can be emailed at bwilliams@woodturnerscatalog.com
We are grateful for your business, and your understanding. Thank you for your time.

So I would like to correct my first post in light of what Ben Williams posted via Josh (not touching that issue with a 10 foot pole) I believe I mentioned statesman jr's as well which seemed to be amended, so I stand corrected

Secondly I have some real issues with this 99% and 95% remarks. I see it very unlikely as to how anyone can come up with these numbers with certainty in light of a few things. Those being the number of resale accounts, group buys, kit exchanges, kits being used for repair/amend and a slew of other avenues would yield inconclusive figures and a very compounded problem that was overlooked by the quoted post.

From this text I read that CSUSA did not want to deal with an exchange to the manufacture and deal with shipping and dealing with customs, again, for a botched order and decided to dump the problem on the community and keep quiet about things and hope it quietly goes away and is not noticed. Opting to sacrifice top quality for sales is a very good way to degrade and devalue your reputation and business transactions.

Simply from the repair standpoint this is a very exponential problem; which means instead of having to replace just one coupler we are now forced to do a complete disassemble and replace the entire hardware set.

I would suggest reading and UNDERSTANDING what is posted before making slanderous statements.

 

[sbell111]

I would suggest reading and UNDERSTANDING what is posted before making slanderous statements.

While we are making suggestions, I have two.

First, that you make the bare minimum effort to be less of a jerk.

Second, that you go back and take a look at my post in question. I was responding to a poster who said that there was only one issue, but neglected all future maintenance issues. I guess that I could have been a jerk and simply told him that he was wrong and that it had already been addressed, without even pointing out the issue or leading him to where it was (like you did). Alternatively, I could do what I did and explain the issue to him.

 

[sbell111]

As I was making lunch for the kids, I thought of two more suggestions.

First, don't imagine that everyone hangs on every word that you type and that you are the only person who is allowed to discuss a topic.

Second, be careful how you throw around accusations like 'slander'. Ironically, accusing someone of slander when they didn't actually commit slander could be considered slander in itself. Isn't that wild? Perhaps, it would be best if you retain an attorney to save you from making false accusations so you don't get yourself into trouble.

 

[Smitty37]

If I may make a suggestion...I suggest that everyone keep in mind that the first 40 posts in this thread were made between January 23 2014 and February 1 2014 and it was brought to life again on May 31 2014. By my calculation that is 4 months give or take a day or two. I, for one, and probably many others did not go back and read all of the posts made 4 months ago and might very well have reiterated things said then.


Additionally there were probably some new comers to the thread who also didn't read all 40 of the earlier comments.