Eagle

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Hope that he is properly reinstated after he does his 'time'. What is that old saying... "To err is human but to forgive is divine". Lord Jeff how about it?

-Peter-[:)]
 
I have to agree with you, Peter. I don't know what the "time out" is about, but I hope it is a finite excommunication (being Protestant, I'm not sure what those are, think it has something to do with Linda Blair and split pea soup.) and that Eagle will be back in flight before too long.
 
I think it stinks. If someone is accused falsely and tries to defend themselves, they should not be banned. Ban the jerk who made the accusation, but the not accused.
I want him back.
 
I think Eagle behaved well since his come back...if he did something bad, I surely missed it.

I emailed him a few times and he is not too optimistic about getting re-instated. I sure wish he is mistaken. We don't see eye to eye a lot of times and I can't even call him friend yet but I do respect him and I believe IAP will benefit from him as a penturner and as a man.
 
What is this about!?!? As a newer member, Eagle has been a HUGE influence to me and has helped me quite a bit. He even called me one night to offer some advice/direction. In any case, I expect that his positive contributions outweigh his offence. Typically, I would expect when a active participant has been 'banned' or whatever, it is because of his intollerence of newer members and their neophyte questions. In all of the posts that I have read by Eagle in the past 3 mos or so, all I have seen is him being helpful (or clarifying a post that has been misunderstood) and actually encouraging others. In all honesty, I have read the posts that put him down and have been watching...waiting to see this side of Eagle that people have hinted at. I have not seen it in the past couple months that I have been a member, nor in the months prior that I was a 'lurker' :)

Is Eagle the Terrel Owens of IAP???

And to think, I simply assumed that he was only taking a break after finishing his latest creation...kind of like Santa after Christmas ;-)

Chris
 
Chris,

You are correct.

These past months...I almost cannot believe it is Eagle posting. He is so mild, I would expect him to be bursting any moment for holding back LOL. Sure, there were baits and he avoided them well.

As I said, I didn't even notice he did something bad lately which makes me curious what really happened. I really wish, the admin and moderators would just lock a thread and not delete it.
 
Dario, I would like to know what happened also, Eagle help me numerous times when I had questions. I don't think he ever heard a stupid question, if you ask he gave you an honest answer and any help you needed. He never "talked down" to us newbies.

Lets bring him back, we all miss him.
 
Originally posted by alamocdc
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Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />OK, comparing Eagle to TO is an insult! To Eagle, not to TO! [:D][;)][:D]
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You got that right, Cav!

I've never seen Eagle drop a blank.[}:)][:p]
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Ha- never seen Eagle drop a blank!

But doesn't every forum have a TO! Nothing like a little spice to keep things interesting.
 
With some help from a friend I finally figured out which thread it was that got Eagle in trouble. It was the one were cozee was the instigator, Eagle was just defending himself, so both were canned. I don't think it is fair!!!!!
 
As good as he was, TO was traded by San Francisco and Philadelphia and it's even money he won't be with the Cowboys next year.....something to think about??[^]
 
Originally posted by Randy_
<br />something to think about??[^]
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You're right, Randy. After T.O. left San Francisco in 1983, they finished 2-14 without him in 2004 while his new team, the Eagles, went 15-3 before losing to New England in the Super Bowl. (T.O. had 9 catches for 122 yds in the Superbowl and 14 TD's that year.) And when Philadelphia set him out in 2005, they finished the season 6-10, losing 7 of the 9 games they played without him.
 
Exactly the point, Lou. It was a risk those teams were willing to take?? No one ever said he wasn't a good football player......just that he had other issues.
 
I guess you guys missed the thread that got Eagle and Cozee banned. There was some bickering going back and forth between Eagle an Cozee and then Jeff, the OWNER of this site, posted a message saying "Regardless of whether or not you agree or disagree with me that your posts are inappropriate, more of the same is going to get you banned. Take my word on that." Less than 15 minutes later, Eagle posted again with a message directed at Cozee that was quite a bit less than friendly. Then, 6 hours later, Cozee responded, adding more fuel to the fire.
 
Originally posted by MesquiteMan
<br />I guess you guys missed the thread that got Eagle and Cozee banned. There was some bickering going back and forth between Eagle an Cozee and then Jeff, the OWNER of this site, posted a message saying "Regardless of whether or not you agree or disagree with me that your posts are inappropriate, more of the same is going to get you banned. Take my word on that." Less than 15 minutes later, Eagle posted again with a message directed at Cozee that was quite a bit less than friendly. Then, 6 hours later, Cozee responded, adding more fuel to the fire.
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That, Curtis, is a GROSS misrepresentation of the facts, particularly your quote. There was a preceding part of the post which is CRITICAL to the understanding. Jeff's post indicated that (paraphrase begins here) if you think I'm talkng to you then I am. (end of paraphrase) Eagle did not believe Jeff's post was addressed to him. After all, who posted the "picture" of Big Bird flipping us off with a reference to it being Eagle?

Cozee made a statement that half of Eagle's posts were (again, paraphrasing) mean spirited (end of paraphrase). Eagle's response was to ask Cozee for proof. Now you can term this as you will, but don't for one minute think that the rest of us believe that is (paraphrasing Jeff) inappropriate (end of paraphrase). I will tell you that if someone on the forum makes such a statement about any one of us, I hope that the recipient of such a comment will demand the same proof. If it's me they will get an EARFUL! As for banning someone for asking for proof of such an accusation, who the heck thinks THAT is some sort of "bannable" offense?

Free Eagle. No one died.
 
...and if you guys keep up the bickering, this thread is going to degenerate into the exact same problem.[B)]

It's Jeff's site, he makes and enforces the rules.

They'll be back after they've cooled off...so why can't the rest of you let it die...sometimes you're like friggin' gnats.[:)]
 
I really believe that the issue between Eagle and me should remain between us and not be up for public discussion. However, since he's orchestrating this discussion via a few friends, I'm going to assume that he won't mind me making this post.

When I readmitted Eagle to the forum we agreed on some ground rules for his behavior. I told him that there were people on this site who wanted him gone and would troll, bait, and annoy him until he did something to get ejected. My very specific instruction to him was that when he felt challenged by someone and was being drawn into an argument, he was to notify me and I'd take care of it by dealing with the trolls. This was our agreement, plain and simple.

Cozee trolled Eagle in the topic with the big bird pictures, and rather than honor our agreement, Eagle decided to deal with Cozee on his own. In an email after I locked his account, Eagle complained that I was making him "run to Jeff" rather than letting him make Cozee justify his remarks.

Lou points out that it's human nature to want to defend against what you feel are false statements or accusations. Nobody wants to run to the principal. But that was the agreement between Eagle and I. Had he not wanted to abide by it, he should not have agreed to.

Yes, our agreement was that he was to let me deal with people who trolled him. I asked him to do that because I felt it was the only way to avoid confrontations between him and those who don't want him around. Eagle does not exactly have a reputation for calm discussion when he's put on the spot. Most of us calmly and logically deal with such things, and he does not. If he had followed my instructions as agreed, Cozee would have gotten the boot instead of both of them.

Let me further say that even though I had promised to eject him permanently if he broke our agreement, I did not intend that after the Big Bird incident. I had given him umpteen breaks already, I figured I'd let him cool off for a while, let him stew over it, then we'd see about getting him back in.

I received a number of emails from him after the incident. He referred to me as "having no credibility", "making boneheaded decisions", "not having the guts" to deal with him, and "not being able to admit a mistake." I don't have the inclination to deal with someone who has zero respect for other people.

I went against the advice of many people when I readmitted Eagle. I realize that people make mistakes, and I respected his approach to me requesting reasmission. Although I promised that I'd ban him at the first sign of trouble, and he understood that, instead I warned him to watch his step on at least six occasions. I bent over backwards to keep him around.

Regarding my opening comment about this entire discussion. It's a sham. Unless I am grossly misinformed, Bernie (brokenbit) and Eagle are friends and talk frequently. I believe that Bernie knows exactly where Eagle is, and made his "where is Eagle" post, probably at the request of Eagle, just to stir up this type of discussion.

One final thing... On a lot of other discussion forums, this kind of topic would not get past the first post. Complaints about discipline are not generally tolerated. I'm letting it run because reading the followups I get the feeling that you all think I'm dealing with Eagle unfairly and I think that the opposite is true. To the best of my ability, I try to be fair and interpret what are obviously subjective the rules as fairly as I can. When I make mistakes it's usually on the side of tolerance. In this case, my tolerance ran out.
 
Jeff, didn't realize all that had gone on which is common being part of such a large group. Some personalities just don't click and that's too bad. I AM glad you cleared this up for me, my wudnhed was getting splintered from all that pounding on the table[;)] Sure glad you're here Jeff!!!!!!!!
 
<b>An open response to Jeff </b>(since I was the only member singled out)

I really believe that the issue between Eagle and me should remain between us and not be up for public discussion. However, since he's orchestrating this discussion via a few friends, I'm going to assume that he won't mind me making this post.
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Actually, Jeff, Eagle has specifically asked MANY of us not to write to you nor to post on the forum about the incident.

When I readmitted Eagle to the forum we agreed on some ground rules for his behavior. I told him that there were people on this site who wanted him gone and would troll, bait, and annoy him until he did something to get ejected. My very specific instruction to him was that when he felt challenged by someone and was being drawn into an argument, he was to notify me and I'd take care of it by dealing with the trolls. This was our agreement, plain and simple.
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I have to respectfully disagree with you. The thread was not "baiting". It was an assault on his character. Along with your advisors, you chose to allow it to continue. The failure to offer any form of protection while the "sword of Damocles" swung over his head was a miserable failing which caused a valuable member of the site to be dismissed. Not only has he been dismissed from posting, but you have also taken away his right to even VIEW the forum...a right you give to any OTHER member of the public.

Cozee trolled Eagle in the topic with the big bird pictures, and rather than honor our agreement, Eagle decided to deal with Cozee on his own. In an email after I locked his account, Eagle complained that I was making him "run to Jeff" rather than letting him make Cozee justify his remarks.
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Jeff, you pulled the thread (and hid it even from the archives) so I cannot quote it, but Cozee did not "troll" It was an outright attack. If you did not see the post for the several days it was up there, surely your moderators did. Someone could have and should have taken action since you prohibited Eagle from even DEFENDING himself. By the way, your hiding the thread reminds me of a quote from you. "Honestly, I want to know because there is a flaw in the logic of ignoring users. Not a flaw in the code, but a flaw in the psychology of "if I don't see it, it isn't there" That thread is STILL here in many of our collective memories.

Lou points out that it's human nature to want to defend against what you feel are false statements or accusations. Nobody wants to run to the principal. But that was the agreement between Eagle and I. Had he not wanted to abide by it, he should not have agreed to.

Yes, our agreement was that he was to let me deal with people who trolled him. I asked him to do that because I felt it was the only way to avoid confrontations between him and those who don't want him around. Eagle does not exactly have a reputation for calm discussion when he's put on the spot. Most of us calmly and logically deal with such things, and he does not. If he had followed my instructions as agreed, Cozee would have gotten the boot instead of both of them.

Let me further say that even though I had promised to eject him permanently if he broke our agreement, I did not intend that after the Big Bird incident. I had given him umpteen breaks already, I figured I'd let him cool off for a while, let him stew over it, then we'd see about getting him back in.
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If you are going to tie someone's hands, you have a heightened requirement to make sure they are not assaulted while unable to defend themselves. "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

I received a number of emails from him after the incident. He referred to me as "having no credibility", "making boneheaded decisions", "not having the guts" to deal with him, and "not being able to admit a mistake." I don't have the inclination to deal with someone who has zero respect for other people.
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Sorry, but injustice brings out intolerance. In both you and Eagle. I've been on the other side of this with you, Jeff.

I went against the advice of many people when I readmitted Eagle. I realize that people make mistakes, and I respected his approach to me requesting reasmission. Although I promised that I'd ban him at the first sign of trouble, and he understood that, instead I warned him to watch his step on at least six occasions. I bent over backwards to keep him around.
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Bent over backwards while holding a sword over his head...by watching his every move...by hanging on to each minor scuffle? As for the "many", you can read IN THIS THREAD that there are more than a few who are more interested in having him ADD to the value of this forum than are annoyed by his style. Of course, there will always be the CJC to take shots whenever and wherever as long as it's under cover of darkness.

Regarding my opening comment about this entire discussion. It's a sham. Unless I am grossly misinformed, Bernie (brokenbit) and Eagle are friends and talk frequently. I believe that Bernie knows exactly where Eagle is, and made his "where is Eagle" post, probably at the request of Eagle, just to stir up this type of discussion.
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Can you substantiate this accusation or is this another self-evident truth?

One final thing... On a lot of other discussion forums, this kind of topic would not get past the first post. Complaints about discipline are not generally tolerated. I'm letting it run because reading the followups I get the feeling that you all think I'm dealing with Eagle unfairly and I think that the opposite is true. To the best of my ability, I try to be fair and interpret what are obviously subjective the rules as fairly as I can. When I make mistakes it's usually on the side of tolerance. In this case, my tolerance ran out.
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Your tolerance may have run out, but the members of this forum have been cheated by this decision.

As has been pointed out, you (technically) "own" the site. I get no vote, nor do any of the rest of us. But what constitutes ownership? You and Scott paid the freight for this forum in the first year. A few more chipped in during year two. This past year, several THOUSAND dollars of the direct expenses were paid for by members. In your own site documents you acknowledge that you are the "caretaker" of the site. As much as anyone on this site, I know how much time you have and continue to donate in the technical management and day-to-day operations, but do not forget that the REAL owners of the site are the members and contributors.

Without us, there is no site. You don't have to agree with us. You don't have to like us. You don't even have to tolerate us. In the end, if enough decisions are made, decisions that lessen the value of the forum, you will be preaching to yourself.

As to those of you who believe, as I do, that Eagle adds more than he detracts, please keep in mind that "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."

In this world, silence is assumed agreement. Weigh in on controversial subjects. "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
 
I haven't been on this site long enought to know all of the details in this argument... nor am I that interested in what started it or how it finished... I personally never took any offense to anything that has been said on the site. I enjoy reading what the membership has to say about pen turning and all its components. I also enjoy reading some of the interaction between memebers.. I felt that a number of members were personal friends and some of the banter was just that banter.. if a thread deteriated into something other than banter, I passed and went to the next thread.
My dear old mother always said, "if you open a can of worms, expect to find worms"

That said, I personally will miss both Eagle and Cozee on the site... I felt they contributed significantly to the information I was gleanning from the threads.
 
Originally posted by ozmandus
<br />I haven't been on this site long enought to know all of the details in this argument... nor am I that interested in what started it or how it finished... I personally never took any offense to anything that has been said on the site. I enjoy reading what the membership has to say about pen turning and all its components. I also enjoy reading some of the interaction between memebers.. I felt that a number of members were personal friends and some of the banter was just that banter.. if a thread deteriated into something other than banter, I passed and went to the next thread.
My dear old mother always said, "if you open a can of worms, expect to find worms"

That said, I personally will miss both Eagle and Cozee on the site... I felt they contributed significantly to the information I was gleanning from the threads.
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What Chuck said......
 
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Originally posted by DCBluesman
As has been pointed out, you (technically) "own" the site. I get no vote, nor do any of the rest of us. But what constitutes ownership? You and Scott paid the freight for this forum in the first year. A few more chipped in during year two. This past year, several THOUSAND dollars of the direct expenses were paid for by members. In your own site documents you acknowledge that you are the "caretaker" of the site. As much as anyone on this site, I know how much time you have and continue to donate in the technical management and day-to-day operations, but do not forget that the REAL owners of the site are the members and contributors.
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In my opinion; Those were donations, not buying shares. Donating money allows you no special pull here. If people want to <b>donate</b>, then that's what they do. If you or anyone else donated money because they wanted to 'own' this site or give you one iota of leadership, their money was poorly spent.

Actually, Jeff, Eagle has specifically asked MANY of us not to write to you nor to post on the forum about the incident.
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Then respect him and stop doing it. If you want him to get back in here, this isn’t the way to do it. Continually dragging the issue through the mud isn’t helping.

"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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He’s told me point blank not to stick up for him, so I don’t. See previous quote.
 
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