Delta Midi Lathe - LA200 restoration

[BHuij]

Hi all, I'm (kinda) new here, after turning pens for around 17 years, and lurking on this forum for probably something like a decade.

I come hat in hand looking for help from people who know their way around a lathe. I'm pretty comfortable using one, but I've never had occasion to this point to try and fix one.

When I was but a lad, at the tender age of 15, I took a shop class at my Jr. High and fell in love with making pens. After much pleading, my dad bought a wood lathe that summer - a Delta Midi Lathe (Model LA200 type 1). This would have been circa ~2006. I probably made a hundred pens on that lathe over the next few years.

Fast forward past me moving out of the house, college, getting married, 2 kids, buying my first house... etc. Somewhere in there my dad upgraded to a newer lathe (I definitely got him hooked on woodworking and now he has a rather nice shop). The trusty LA200 was sold to someone else, passed through some non-zero number of additional owners, and... as luck would have it, I got in contact with the latest owner of it last week. He had upgraded and wanted to get rid of it, and I just so happened to have cleared some space in my garage for it. I picked it up a couple of nights ago, and it was like being reunited with an old friend.

Well. An old friend who has survived 10+ years of neglect and possibly abuse.

So before we proceed, I'll just get it out of the way. Restoring this old lathe is going to be more time and effort and $ than makes sense. I would be better off buying a new lathe. But I don't want to. It has sentimental value.

This site has been pretty helpful for me so far, at least in confirming to me that 95% of the parts for this lathe are long since discontinued and unobtanium, even on eBay.

On the rather long of things I need to fix is the headstock. It spins in about a 1/32" circle around the tailstock, the hand wheel gets really hot when it's running (I suspect due to the belt pulleys being misaligned on the spindle and rubbing weirdly on the housing), and the bearings sound like 'nam.

Parts #6 and #30 from that site above appear to be the bearings I need to replace. First off, is it strange that they're two different bearings? I would have expected them to match. Secondly, the discerning investigator will have noticed that one of the bearings is apparently a popular one for all sorts of machinery, so it's right there ready to order for $25. Cool. The other is obsolete and unavailable.

Am I crazy in thinking that there's no reason Delta's design team would have ignored the 232847 available standard sized bearings in favor of manufacturing a proprietary one in-house for this use case? Once I get these bearings out, could it simply be a matter of measuring the outer and inner diameters, and thickness, and finding a standard sized bearing of the same dimensions that is rated for the type of rigor these ones are subjected to?

Any opinions welcome here.

Edit: I should mention that I really don't think the lathe is a lost cause. Even with the litany of issues, I was able to turn a pen on it yesterday that came out quite nicely.

 

[Woodchipper]

Interesting story about the lathe and your journey from junior high shop to the present. It is great that you were able to track down the lathe. Restoring the lathe with its past history is like restoring grandpa's '56 Ford Sunliner. Have fun and keep us posted. I'm sure if there are questions, the forum members will be quick to answer.

 

[1080Wayne]

I would be surprised if it isn`t a standard bearing . Get it out , and take it to any industrial supply store . They should be able to source a replacement .

 

[BHuij]

Sounds good. Pop 'em out and measure them is the plan then.

After searching high and low for a suitable hand wheel for the tailstock spindle, I just designed one to 3D print in PETG. Shouldn't have to withstand significant force, really, so hopefully this gets the job done.

The spindle diameter is 15mm (almost exactly), and the closest I could find on McMaster Carr was a 5/8" hole. Probably close enough, but then they wanted like $75 for the thing. It seems this may have been a component that Delta had custom fabricated for this specific lathe.

Possibly newer model hand wheels would be compatible. The hand wheel from the 46-460 model is still available, but they want like $100 for it. That's more than an entire replacement tailstock for that midi lathe. If this works, the total cost will be something like $2 worth of filament. Gotta save money somewhere Besides, I'm not even sure whether the 46-460 tailstock spindle/lead screw is even the same dimensions as mine.

If it works well and I feel the need, I may iterate on the design to add a little handle on a bearing for faster turning.

 

[Mike]

No guarantee, but I think this is the bearing you need:

1313116 - Bearing

Delta Rockwell Parts - 1313116 422-31-139-0001 422311390001 - Bearing - Renovo Parts Your Best Source For A Complete Delta Shopping Cart!

www.renovoparts.com

I have purchased a few parts for old Delta tools from this site lately.

Mike

 

[BHuij]

No guarantee, but I think this is the bearing you need:

1313116 - Bearing

Delta Rockwell Parts - 1313116 422-31-139-0001 422311390001 - Bearing - Renovo Parts Your Best Source For A Complete Delta Shopping Cart!

www.renovoparts.com

I have purchased a few parts for old Delta tools from this site lately.

Mike

It has the same part number and looks the same. Good to know they're floating around out there if I find I'm not confident I can find an ideal match after taking measurements. Great find, thanks for the tip!

 

[Mike]

No problem. Shipping is within a couple days and parts have been as advertised so far.

Mike

 

[randyrls]

Andrew; The head stock not spinning true may be a lot of things. I searched and the tapers are MT2.

1. If you used the pen mandrel, the mandrel rod itself may be bent.
2. There may be rust or swarf inside the morse taper on the headstock. That taper has to be squeaky clean. There are taper cleaners made from hard plastic. I have one, use it when doing routine maintenance.
3. That *may* be fixed by replacing the bearings.

When replacing the bearings, DO NOT press where the force is being transmitted through the balls in the bearing! Only on the outside of the bearing. A cheap and home-brew bearing press is made of a threaded rod, some nuts and strong washers and a socket wrench socket. Size the socket so it is just under the outside diameter of the bearing.

The hot hand wheel may be the bearings as well. There is usually a method of removing slop in the bearings. "Pre-load" squeezes the bearings. This makes them run true(er) but increases the heat they generate. There isn't any standard for how much pre-load to use. Run the lathe at full speed for 15 minutes. The headstock and hand wheel should get warm but not hot.

PS if there is a woodturning club in your area, it is a great local resource for you.

WOW! this ended up a lot longer!

 

[BHuij]

Okay, update after spending the majority of yesterday evening working on the lathe. The short version is, I think I've gotten lucky and am more or less ready to go at this point. But for posterity and future Google searchers who are as frustrated as I was about the refurbishment process on this LA200:

I took apart the entire headstock assembly. It was an absolute mess in there (I don't think it's ever been disassembled or cleaned in the ~19 years since it rolled off the production line). Sawdust stuck to grease, dust, crud caked on over every surface. Even after pulling out all the set screws in the hand wheel and dousing it in WD-40 in an attempt to penetrate and loosen up the threads, I still ended up having to use a strap wrench to get it off the spindle. Helped once I figured out it was a left handed thread, too

I deep cleaned everything thoroughly with WD-40, paper towels, and a brass brush as needed. Spindle, bearings, pulleys, housing, morse taper interiors, all of it. I measured the bearings while I had it apart. The left side (closer to the hand wheel) has a 42mm OD with 20mm ID. The right side (closer to the tailstock) has a 47mm OD and 25mm ID. Both are 12mm thick, and both are sealed bearings. So they're confirmed to be different from each other, but also confirmed to be standard sizes.

I wasn't able to find any information on the OEM parts about their ABEC ratings. But the larger bearing seems to be a 6005-2RS, and the smaller is a 6004-2RS. I can find them at Bearings Direct for between about $12 and about $45, depending on the material and whatnot. I think it's probably worth spending a little extra to get something ABEC-3 or better when it's time to replace these. McMaster Carr has ABEC-3 ones for somewhat more (neighborhood of $50). That price makes me think that the OEM ones are probably ABEC-1.

That said, since I didn't have replacement bearings on hand, I figured why not re-assemble carefully, make sure things are aligned, and check concentricity again. Honestly... it's darn near perfect on the headstock now. And the bearings are MUCH quieter, and I no longer have the vibration I noticed before. I'm also not seeing significant heat buildup on the headstock hand wheel anymore (though I haven't done a proper long turning session yet).

Could my bearings be replaced? Probably. But they seem to still have some life left in them, so I'm going to hold off until I find a more compelling reason than "I dunno, they're pretty old."

I can only assume that there was one or more significant misalignments somewhere in the assembly. The spindle, the way the bearings were seated in the housing, the pulleys, who knows? Lots of potential points of failure. A solid cleaning and a careful reassembly with attention paid to alignment seems to have really done the trick.

My new tailstock hand wheel printed overnight and went on today with an M4 set screw in a brass heat-set threaded insert to hold it on the tailstock spindle. It's working great. I am going to iterate on it one more time to make a few last tweaks. It's longer than it needs to be, the diameter of the hand part is larger than strictly comfortable, and I actually do want to add a little handle on a skateboard bearing. But it's working.

Lastly, I notice a slight difference in the headstock to tailstock alignment. Left to right is dead on, but the headstock center point is ever so slightly higher than the tailstock point. Maybe half a millimeter or so. I've tried toying with the tension of the front vs rear screws that hold the headstock to the bed to see if I can lower it, but no dice. I'm not sure it's enough of a difference to stress about. This evening I'm planning on turning a single-barrel pen between centers. My suspicion is that it will come out so close to perfectly round that I can't tell the difference. But if anyone has tips for a fix (shim the rear of the headstock? I have some very thin brass shim stock), I'm all ears.

Now what remains is primarily just replacing some bits here and there. All the ratchet handles that came with the lathe for things like the motor pivot lock loosening bolt, the tailstock quill lock, and the tool rest height adjustment lock... are gone. They all seem to use a 5/16 screw, so I bought some generic springloaded ratchet handles in that size from Amazon, only to find they don't fit. I wondered if maybe they were 5/16" fine thread instead of coarse, but nobody makes that ratchet handle that I can tell. But then it occured to me that most everything else on this lathe is metric, so it's probably an M8. I'll hit the hardware store today to pick up an M8 bolt to confirm that hypothesis, and if it bears out, I'll order some M8 stud ratchet handles.

I also noticed that PSI has a 3/4 HP motor upgrade kit with variable speed built into the controller, which is confirmed to be compatible with the LA200... tempting. But I'll save that project for another day

 

[d_bondi]

Lastly, I notice a slight difference in the headstock to tailstock alignment. Left to right is dead on, but the headstock center point is ever so slightly higher than the tailstock point. Maybe half a millimeter or so. I've tried toying with the tension of the front vs rear screws that hold the headstock to the bed to see if I can lower it, but no dice. I'm not sure it's enough of a difference to stress about. This evening I'm planning on turning a single-barrel pen between centers. My suspicion is that it will come out so close to perfectly round that I can't tell the difference. But if anyone has tips for a fix (shim the rear of the headstock? I have some very thin brass shim stock), I'm all ears.

Andrew, I recommend against trying to adjust the headstock mounting screws for this purpose.

You say front vs. rear, I assume you mean front near the spindle and rear near the hand wheel. If you change these, ie., raise the back (left facing the lathe) to lower the tip of the spindle, you will be tipping the axis of the spindle. The MOST important part of the lathe calibration is having the spindle parallel to the ways. Adjusting these screws and or shimming should only be done to accomplish this. Do you have a dial indicator and a way to hold it on the ways? Either a magnetic holder or a tool post holder? You need to check the spindle for runout close to the spindle and then farther out to make sure that the axis is parallel.

I hope this makes sense. Let me know if you have other questions.

 

[BHuij]

Yeah I didn't want to leave anything loose, or mess with shimming yet. So right now I just made sure the entire bed was clean and free of debris, same with the bottom mating surface of the headstock housing where it meets the bed, and then screwed it down tightly in all 4 corners.

At this point I have no reason to suspect that the headstock is out of alignment. I'd be more inclined to suspect the tailstock. For me right now, the bottom line is whether I can turn a round pen or not. I'll know for sure the answer to that question after tonight.

I don't have a dial indicator to measure runout. Hopefully I don't end up needing one anytime soon.

 

[Woodchipper]

Thanks for the update. Many times a power tool just needs a good cleaning.

 

[BHuij]

Yeah, weird how regular basic maintenance is really good for a machine, huh? I learn something new every day.

 

[Mike]

Happy you got it going. I bought a magnetic holder and dial indicator at HF when I first got my lathe over 15 years ago. I am sure it is not as accurate or durable as a Starrett but it cost a fraction of a Starrett. And it is still working fine. My Jet 10-14 tailstock was about .030 lower than the headstock. I checked and measured and futzed around for a long time and ended up shimming the tailstock .030 and now my turnings are not offset!!

Mike

 

[Woodchipper]

When you shim the tailstock, how do you keep the shim in place when moving it? Am I missing a technique here? Now you have me wanting to check the headstock/tailstock alignment.

 

[BHuij]

Yeah I've read a little bit about shimming to fix vertical alignment between the two. If I did need to adjust, I think shimming the tailstock would be the move. Do I just glue on some brass shim stock on one edge or something?