Christmas Greeting from Bill Baumbeck

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I agree with Greg, no where is it written that there should be a seperation of church and state. In fact our founding fathers used their religion to help them draft the documents that we base all of our laws on. The fact that we can't say MERRY CHRISTMAS and have prayer in school, but they are free to call their religious holidays what ever they want and worship in peace is absolutely ludricris. I have no problem with whatever religion you want to practice, but don't tell me how to worship my God. If you take the Christ out of Chrstmas what is the true reason of celebrating? All you are left with is the commercially driven holiday. As for me and my family it will always be a MERRY CHRISTMAS. I agree with Jeff, my views may not be PC, but I don't care that is the way I fell.
Merry Christmas to all,
Andy
 
In celebration of the birth of our Lord and Saviour, Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS and a BLESSED NEW YEAR!!!
Wait! Can you say Blessed New year?
Its crazy how people get upset over others beliefs and oppinions, Isnt this what makes the USA what we are, because we can express ourselves without fear of retribution?
I may not always agree with your oppinion
But I will allways respect your oppinion.
Merry Christmas and a Blessed Happy New year!!
 
Cozee and twoofakind I think Jeff has clearly stated that if you do not want the thread locked keep the politics out of it. Both of the posts are pushing that thin line a little too far. If you wish to say Merry Christmas than say so, if you want to make a polical statment take it elseware.
 
I wasn't going to post on this, I thought the whole thing was silly... I read Bill's post and thought it funny, got a good laugh, closed the post and when on....

I have no qualms or arquements with anything anyone says or does that does not hurt anyone else, anyone can say or believe what they want... that is the premise that this country was built on... your religion, your belief, etc... just don't tell me I HAVE to have the same beliefs or that I can't have my own

Merry Christmas to everyone and a happy and prosperous New Year.
 
Whatever we think of his message, most agree it does not belong here.
I have expressed what I think of it. Regardless of whether he wrote it or not, he posted it on his web site and it represents his views and his business.
That said, I'm a stout defender of the First Amendment. Regardless of what the message says (short of inciting treason, porn, etc.) it is his site and his business, he has the right to post it.
 
Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />...most agree it does not belong here.
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Did I miss the poll that allows you to state that categorically. The only thing I can conclude, and I actually have knowledge of this, is that you are a bitter person with a personal grudge towards Bill. I can also vouch for the fact that when your bitterness takes over, you suggest that your target has mental and/or emotional problems and needs professional help. You are also not qualified to make that judgement, either. These types of statements are what does not belong here. It's nothing but an unwarranted personal attack. Get over yourself, Frank, because a number of us are sick of reading your berating rants towards other members. Oh, and Merry Christmas.
 
Jeff/Doghouse,
If my post is on the edge of not being allowed, by all means delete it. I did not wish it to come across as my political stance and did not realize that it did, just making a statement. I agree with Al, lets get back to work.
Andy
 
Andy I didnt think your post was political it was more religious. The people that called this political were on the first page and first few post. Funny how a couple people can make this a huge issue when they could have just ignored it and not posted.
 
Originally posted by DocStram
<br />I just checked. I held a mirror up to his nose. No pulse. No sign of life. The horse is dead.
Let's stop beating it and go turn some pens.
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I was wrong about beating a dead horse. He isn't dead. As a matter of fact, upon closer inspection I realize he wasn't even a horse. It was a dog. With that said, let's let sleeping dogs lay.
Now it's really time for us to all go turn some pens.
 
Originally posted by twoofakind
<br />Jeff/Doghouse,
If my post is on the edge of not being allowed, by all means delete it. I did not wish it to come across as my political stance and did not realize that it did, just making a statement. I agree with Al, lets get back to work.
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It's inaccurate, but it's not over the edge [:)]

What is driving me nuts about this topic is that several posters have made statements that strongly suggest there is some kind of political correctness required at this site. There is not now and there never has been. What we don't tolerate is bickering over who is right and who is wrong. That includes blanket statements such as "MY (God or politics or lathe or finish method)" is the "ONLY ONE" and the rest of you be damned.

Now, I said that your post was inaccurate, but I guess that what you were commenting on was Greg's assertion that "separation of church and state" is not in the constitution. Of course he is correct. But you added to that by saying that the founding fathers used their beliefs to help them draft the documents on which we base our laws. Separation of church and state was certainly one of Thomas Jefferson's beliefs. See his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists.

He clearly explains that the intention of the constitutional statement that the legislature shall "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," is intended to create (his words: "thus building") separation of church and state. In a speech in 1808, he also said "Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state, therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society."

I agree with you that the concept of separation of church and state has been perverted umpteen ways to suit many purposes. Clearly, it was not intended to squash the expression of religious beliefs, but that's how it has been used.

I find American history fascinating. What I find even more amazing is the belief that the founding fathers intended this country to be a nation of Christian values. Nothing could be further from the truth. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. What they did intend is that each and every one of us hold whatever religious or non-religious beliefs we wish, in peace and quiet without interference from anyone.
 
Originally posted by airrat
<br />Andy I didnt think your post was political it was more religious. The people that called this political were on the first page and first few post. Funny how a couple people can make this a huge issue when they could have just ignored it and not posted.
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Well, Tom ... since my post was the very second one to appear, I reckon you're talking about me. With that in mind, I would like to address your comments in an open and forthright manner. The evidence clearly shows that BB opened his first greeting with the statement "For My Liberal Friends, Family, and Customers" and his second greeting with "For My Conservative Friends, Family and Customers". With the use of the words "Liberal" and "Conservative" he cast his greeting within the realm of politics. Thus, I felt that since the "Greetings" were politically related they did not belong in IAP.

Unfortunately, there were zealots among us who, without forethought, immediatley interpreted my concern to be one of having to do with us wishing "Merry Christmas" to each other. That was clearly not my intent. Never once did I state that I was opposed to wishing a religious greeting within our forums. I was, and still am, opposed to the presentation of political beliefs and views in IAP.

I resent your statement "Funny how a couple people can make this a huge issue when they could have just ignored it and not posted." I, my friend, have as much right to post in IAP as any other IAP member.
Unfortunately, there are IAP members who are quick to jump at the opportunity to present their religious views and are even quicker to jump at the opportunity to claim they are more religious than others.

Merry Christmas.
 
Jeff,
I guess what I should have said was their beliefs or disbeliefs influenced their decisions on what to include. If you read some of their letters you would start to think they either did not believe in a god, or they were devoted christians to the core. I should not make claims such as I did without doing further research.[;)]
Thanks,
andy
 
I posted what I posted because it is what I not only beleive but try to live my life by. My comments were not directed at Jeff but at those on this board who tout the PC rhetoric. I used to have a signature which was religiously based but after enough pm's, emails, and comments in posts I removed it. Whay you beleive is what you choose to believe and there is nothing I can do to change that myself. And I served this nation so you could have the right to make that choice. But I also served so that who choose to do so can voice their beliefs even if it isn't politically correct.

Isn't it funny that there is no other name that can stur up so much animosity and or argueing than the name of the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ. Seems it is written He said that would happen. Must be some truth in that ol' Bible!! Don't hear people fussin' over the name of Allah, Budda, or any of them other gods.
 
Gee I think I remember a whole uproar over a picture of Allah in a newspaper... Hmmm...

Everyone is sensitive about their own religion. As a Catholic, I find all the thumping separatists offensive in their narrow minded view of the world. When they do not understand their own history.
 
I've read thru all of the posts in this forum at least three times. Not once .... not once ..... have I seen anybody make a comment that we should not say "Merry Christmas" in IAP. It's typical of those who want to feel persecuted to be so much on the lookout for someone being critical of them that they push the "You're Trying to be Policitally Correct" button before anybody even says anything politically correct.
By the way, I happen to be Christian as well .... maybe not your kind of Christian ... but only God will be the judge.
 
Al, good post! I don't know if we agree politically, nor do I care. I try to live by a line of a song by, of all people, David Allan Coe - "The one thing I have learned is this, You can't shake hands with a fist."

BTW, Al, I am proud to know you.
 
I'm know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I have to say this.

I think the response to this thread is stupid and childish, all Bill was trying to do was be funny. Why can't people take it for what it was meant to be. Laugh at it or don't, but don't make a big fuss over nothing.

Fire away and Merry Christmas to all.
 
Al you obviously knew exactly how the rules of the site were/are stated about religion/politics. Therefore, you posted that you do not believe that post should be allowed due to political content. My comment restated if you knew that and you also know the debate that would arise from your post, why? Yes you have a right to post as does everyone else here. But looking back now, would you still post it or pass it by?

BTW some places do consider the term "Merry Christmas" is considered religious. Therefore, it does get put into the catagory or the rule Jeff posted.
 
Wow people get a life. It was a joke. Now get back to turning something and Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

Ron

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Ron is absolutely right.
I hope that everyone has a wonderful Christmas, or whatever else you may celebrate, and I hope that if you are traveling you have safe travels.
 
Hey, I am always game for a good debate/discussion. Seems there are clearly opposing sides here and they seem to have something to say. So as to divert anymore of this thread from continuning here, I have a shut down board I can quickly resurrect if anyone would like to prove they are more than rhetoric and agenda???!!! Let me know and I can have it cleaned up and open in about an hour!!![:p] It would be open for all to see but I to keep things so that we don't have any keyboard warriors, to post, registration will be required. This would only be a board for those to go and hash things out so as to keep it from tarnishing things here any further. This is in now way an intention to draw away members to a new pen board as I have no desire to compete with what is already available. Besides, I have one I like to call home anyway.

Anyone got game?????[:D][:D][:D][:D]
 
Originally posted by DocStram
<br />I just checked. I held a mirror up to his nose. No pulse. No sign of life. The horse is dead.
Let's stop beating it and go turn some pens.
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OK, now this is a quandry. I was going to follow this advice and turn some pens but they are for Christmas gifts, can I post pictures of them since you now know my intentions?

Disclaimer: the above was just a joke in a weak attempt to lighten up this thread some. Merry Christmas to all, and if that offends you I am sorry but just go read another thread or something!
 
I have seen the post by Bill and thought it was funny, in a wry sort of way.
Monty, I thank you for that link. I had not seen that before. My throat and sides are aching from laughing so hard.
Jeff, for being the one to originally post a reminder of an IAP rule, you certainly seemed to break that one. (I happen to disagree with your assertion.) Just thought I would point that out...don't hate me.
What fascinated me about this whole post was how polarizing this was. I think that the people that participate in this forum are some of the best people on earth. People to whom the words honesty, integrity and commitment are not just words but a way of life. Yet for all of that, we were so close to having a melee break out...over Christmas. Hmmm.
I hope everyone is able to spend time with loved ones during this season and show others love. That is what this season is supposed to be about. Be safe.
 
Originally posted by cozee
<br />
Originally posted by cozee

Anyone got game?????[:D][:D][:D][:D]
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I didn't think so!!

Merry Christmas!!
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It's time for us to move on ... let this thread die ... and let it go. It's much more pleasant in IAP when we have comradery and a spirit of community.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!
 
Hi Folks,

Well, my Christmas message has been put into its box to await next year's Christmas season. Five pages of reply's. You all never cease to amaze me! :&gt;)

My Christmas message has been replaced by our After Christmas Sale which begins tomorrow.

Hope everyone had a great day and keep in mind why we celebrated!

Bill Baumbeck
www.arizonasilhouette.com
 
Originally posted by Penmonkey
<br />Bill ROCKS!
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[:D][:D]
Glad you posted Russ, I've read other versions, but this was much better. I also think its rather brave of Bill to put that on his site.[}:)]

He probably shouldn't have used it as the difference between his liberal/conservative friends though...
 
Originally posted by DocStram

It's time for us to move on ... let this thread die ... and let it go. It's much more pleasant in IAP when we have comradery and a spirit of community.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!
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Happy New Year Everybody!!
 
This banter really shows everyone understands the true meaning of Christmas.

I hope everyone has a Happy New Year.

Drew
 
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