Arizona Silhouette

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massman

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
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126
Location
Westfield, Ma, USA.
I've read a post somewhere around here that AS is no longer associated with IAP. I cleary see that AS is not sponsoring the 5th Birthday Bash. Does anyone know why? I have been part of IAP since I turned my first pen almost 2 1/2 years ago and have purchased more than $4,000 is pen kits and other supplies from AS in that time. I did have one minor run-in with Bill about something and quickly learned he can be short fused.
The only reason I ever even heard of AS was because of the IAP and our members. If he isn't going to support Jeff and his staff and the IAP, why would I support him? I can only imagine how much sales this membership has sent his way in the last five years. I have been getting away from AS and have had a fantastic experience with Ernie at Beartooth where he put together a desperatly needed order for me before he left town that same day I called! I also have enjoyed doing some business with Ryan and his team and Woodturningz. The only thing I need that AS has exclusively is the TSW. Sorry for being long winded, but I support those who support the IAP. I did send an email to Bill asking why he wasn't supporting IAP and have not heard anything back as of today.

Bernie
 
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Don't know about the particulars, but Ernie's great. I just now emailed him asking why he doesn't sell Barons. At least, they're not on his site. I didn't check Woodturningz, but I will. Bill does lack, in my experience, a bit of the customer service polish of, say, an Ernie or CSUSA. But in this case he has what I want (notice I didn't say NEED-there's always choices) and it was convenient enough.

Dale

Note: Just checked Woodturningz, and he does PSI stuff, of which I'm not the biggest fan, with a few exceptions. I didn't think he had Berea stuff, but wanted to check again. Ever notice how, of the "Big 3", Craft Supplies is the only one without a dealer network? That tells me they are good at the customer service part, they are committed to customer service and love doing it, and don't find the customer an inconvenience. They will crawl through broken glass to help you, and I plainly have not found that with the other 2 suppliers, although I second the thoughts on Ernie. Just my opinion...
 
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CSU is the top of the heap service-wize NO DOUBT NO QUESTION Have never in my life on any product had a supplier better or even near it..They are thrilled to help with anything..missing a part in your kit.?.they put one in the mail..no questions..they even apologize.yikes.. I will keep Beartooth in mind on future orders becasue of the info from this forum
 
massman said:
I've read a post somewhere around here that AS is no longer associated with IAP. I cleary see that AS is not sponsoring the 5th Birthday Bash. Does anyone know why? I did have one minor run-in with Bill about something and quickly learned he can be short fused.
The only reason I ever even heard of AS was because of the IAP and our members. If he isn't going to support Jeff and his staff and the IAP, why would I support him? The only thing I need that AS has exclusively is the TSW. Sorry for being long winded, but I support those who support the IAP. I did send an email to Bill asking why he wasn't supporting IAP and have not heard anything back as of today.

Bernie
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Bernie, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a response, possibly he's tweaked because there have been so many posts concerning his style of customer etiquette, but I've never had any problems since I have only dealt with him on his terms, Web sales, and no phone calls. Someone else has a pen called the Navigator which is the same as the Baron. I do hope that this was just an oversight by him in not supporting the IAP birthday bash, who knows maybe he just has more money and customers than he needs or wants, I don't think I'll be ordering from him in light of this.
 
To "spiritwoodturner":

Point of historical information: CSUSA used to have dealers. In fact, Bill WAS a dealer for them. CSUSA decided to eliminate ALL dealer channels, through no fault of any dealers (Including and especially Arizona Silhouette - I believe they were the largest reseller and Bill got abused -IN MY OPINION).

However, since CSUSA has taken this path, they HAVE had greater control over "oooppppsses" - so the decision may have been good for CSUSA's long-term customer relations.

JUST FOR HISTORICAL ACCURACY.
 
i have ordered from AS, CSUSA, PSI, and beartooth woods.......i've not had any problem with any of them.

so, can anyone answer the original question......is AS no longer a part of IAP?
 
Bill may be a bit of a curmudgeon, and may have dropped his participation here, but I intend to continue doing business with him for a number of items. I recall a time when he called me to tell me he was not going to ship the blanks I'd ordered on line, because he was fairly sure they weren't what I wanted- and he was right. And I can almost guarantee no one has ever had one of his shipments come open in the mail during transit and arrived with items missing- anyone who's ordered from him previously knows what I'm talking about. If some chose to only do business with vendors that support IAP, I certainly respect their right to have that as one of their criteria, but I don't see that as being a deal killer for me...........
 
Hughbie-


Yes, Bill B requested that his membership be terminated and Jeff did as he asked. I know this to be an accurate fact.
 
I haven't ordered anything from Bill in 1 1/2 years so this has no effect on me since many of his prices can easily be beaten by other vendors if one just looks around a little. But even if I were a current steady customer I wouldn't stop doing business with him because of the decision he made. He had his reasons and that's that!

Ordering from him now is no different than ordering blanks from any of dozens of ebay sellers or tools from 1-800-Watt, MCI, SHARS, VME or KBC, none of which are associated with the IAP that I am aware of.
 
I have bought thousands of dollars of pen supplies from Bill and have asked some questions to which I received answers I thought were surly or offensive but I understand that Bill is one that may have a short fuse and I could have hit him at a bad time. We all have our bad days.

His merchandise has always been the best quality, he always send a freebie or two and he never takes more than a day to get the order out. His prices are fair, he doesn't gouge for shipping and he does answer his emails. He carries a lot of stuff and is rarely out of anything.

I am sorry he has chosen not to support the IAP but I will not be part of any group seeking to boycott him into returning. That is not a tactic I approve of and I think the IAP does not have to do anything like that. I will continue to support Bill and recommend him to friends.

Bill, if you are listening and reading these comments, please note how seriously some of the turners are and please consider our business is worth your support.
 
Given the way he's been treated he on and off that wouldn't surprise me in the least. I'll stick with him. He may not be the most amiable sort, but he's a meticulously honest and careful businessman. If the IAP decides to become the home of the boycott you can count me out.

I'm curious though. Was that a private request to Jeff. If it was public, did he happen to give a reason?

Marc


ed4copies said:
Hughbie-


Yes, Bill B requested that his membership be terminated and Jeff did as he asked. I know this to be an accurate fact.
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Bill did indeed request that his membership be terminated, which I reluctantly did many months ago. This was his private business decision and there is no reason to second-guess it. Bill has always treated me in a gentlemanly and respectful way, and while he was a member, he supported us very generously.
 
marcruby said:
...If the IAP decides to become the home of the boycott you can count me out.
Marc
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THERE WILL BE NO BOYCOTT of Arizona Silhouette here at IAP!

The bottom line is Mr. Baumback asked to be removed as a member of IAP and did not give us a clear reason. That is his choice and we are sorry to lose his participation.

We DO NOT discourage anyone from buying from any supplier they choose and will not allow any kind of boycott to be instigated at this site.


Thanks!

Curtis O. Seebeck
IAP Head Moderator
 
marcruby said:
I'm a bit more concerned that a private action has been made public. Not why Bill made his decision. That's inappropriate if it's the case.
Marc
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Lots of people know that he's no longer a member. I assume that Bill himself or his friends have made that known to various people. If you have a specific concern about this, please PM me.
 
Marc,

What would you choose to be done when someone asks the management "What happened to AS's links" or "Why can't I find AS's profile or send a PM?" Are we to just play dumb and lie to the current member?
 
The circumstances of the decision are private information:

Try one of the following three responses -
1) mention that the members list is current,
2) AS or Bill are not members with no further discussion,
3) or even no response at all since the list is there to see.

I don't see any of those responses as playing dumb or lying.

Marc
 
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Mark, No one has discussed any circumstances at all, other than the fact that Mr. B is no longer a member. So we have done basically what you think should have been done.
 
Ed, thanks for "the rest of the story"! My dealings are only about 4 years old. It's kinda hard for me to see Bill abused, it's a bit like thinking you can abuse a porcupine, but I'll take your version of it to heart. Bottom line is, more than a few people have shared their 'curmudgeon" stories, or made some sort of excuses for him. To me, there are 2 kinds of businesses-1 that thinks customers are gold and understand NOTHING happens without them, and then there are those that think customers need to conform to their wishes and demands. I generally deal with the first group only. Call me silly, but I'm a "path of least resistance" kinda guy. If CS ever "abused' him, by golly it seems like the only time they ever abused anyone, 'cause all they've ever done to me is fawned over me.

Now, I was the first to respond to this thread, but I don't think I even hinted at a boycott. Holy cow, I have an order outstanding with him right now, admittedly only because he has what I want. If Ernie could carry them, I'd get them from him, but if I can't get them at all the world won't end. How did we get to talk of a "boycott"? I would rather support those who support me, but it's not my only criteria.

Seems the ante got raised here somewhere...

Dale
 
What does it matter one way or other? He decided he didn't wish to be a member any longer and I for one will respect that. I will continue ordering from him.

Jack
 
wow.....it's amazing how a simple question can turn rancid.......i'll continue to do business with who i want to, and AS is one of them........

why has this gone the direction that it has? i think it's time to move on.....just my two cents
 
I am surprised to see how much "chatter" my original post has caused. I want to be clear on a couple of things. The IAP has fueled a passion for me to turn pens since day one in June of 2006. I am very grateful to have this website on my favorites. I have always supported the vendors that have supported IAP first. I do not NEED to know what happened between Bill and the IAP. I certainly have not asked or attempted to persuade anyone to not buy from AS. Bill has been good to me, but I have been good to Bill as well. I will buy from AS when I need to for certain Baron style pens, but will look to those who are listed on IAP first. We have the right to buy from anyone we want and I respect Bill and his company. I suggest we just let it go and I do regret my initial post.
 
Ok, done then...good night John Boy! Lights out! Program over.


massman said:
I am surprised to see how much "chatter" my original post has caused. I want to be clear on a couple of things. The IAP has fueled a passion for me to turn pens since day one in June of 2006. I am very grateful to have this website on my favorites. I have always supported the vendors that have supported IAP first. I do not NEED to know what happened between Bill and the IAP. I certainly have not asked or attempted to persuade anyone to not buy from AS. Bill has been good to me, but I have been good to Bill as well. I will buy from AS when I need to for certain Baron style pens, but will look to those who are listed on IAP first. We have the right to buy from anyone we want and I respect Bill and his company. I suggest we just let it go and I do regret my initial post.
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As I understand it, AS has exclusive rights to distribute the Baron in the US aside from Berea of course. That's why you won't find it anywhere else. CSUSA's Jr. Gentlemen and PSI's Navigator look almost identical, but the Baron can only be purchased in the US through AS or Berea.

It's a shame that he's not a member, but it might not be that he's disgruntled. Either way, I'll give him my business. I think that Bill does an excellent job. I don't care what his personality is like, he does a top notch, A+++ job running his business. I've never had problems with an order, never received an order late and he always includes a freebie. He carries top quality stuff and it's easy to order from his site. I've never understood the mentality that anyone should move mountains for me just because I'm a customer, but that could just be me. I, for one, don't think he has done anything to deserve being crucified here numerous times. If he rubs you the wrong way, you don't have to like it, but tact would dictate keeping it private.
 
I didn't know Mr. Baumback had withdrawn his membership, but for my money it's immaterial.. the few times I've ordered from him were relatively pleasant experience.

Edit: And to not keep beating a dead horse, whatever his thoughts are for resignation, they really aren't for us to know or worry about, unless our council was sought before hand. Mr. B. may be just lightening his load and commitments. At any rate, his services have been good for the IAP and there have been many many threads about how great his service has been, etc etc... I for one don't believe that "he doesn't plan to have anything to do with IAP". At any rate, I plan to continue to buy from him should I be in need or want one or more of his products.

I wish him well, good health and continued good fortune.
 
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What annoys me is what Curtis said on another thread:

quote
"Mr. Baumbeck requested to have his membership removed and no longer wants anything to do with IAP". unquote

I used to buy stuff indirectly from AS via members in the USA, no more though!
 
After reading all the comments here about AS and its owner and after I went through a situation like this myself I can clearly see why he does not want to have anything to do with this forum. Most of the members here are great people but then there are those who are more like a cancer and just like to pile on with no real facts.
I found that here are a lot of members that hide behind a computer screen and like to look so "Cool" but you are nothing but just a double faced $%^&#.
Please wear the shoe if it fits - I have more shoes if we run out!

Is the next thing to stop supporting those who support AS? Get real here please, don't cut your nose to spite your face!

I still support AS and all other who has what I need to enjoy my hobby.
 
I just ordered from AS and received my package. I ordered a few more of the closed end mandrels as well and to my surprise received a free video <yo-yo-spin>'s vid. THANKS BILL !!!

So he doesn't like phone calls. I don't like to talk on the phone either. If you simply do what you are told over the internet with his order form, the important stuff is dealt with quick and efficient. If you have a question about something like a product, you are better off asking it here than from him regardless how fast he gets back to you on that. That goes for any vendor merchandise. You'll get a broader more honest opinion here than from any vendor and all your questions will be well answered.
 
i started looking at this site in november when i turned my first pen in a class. i have appreciated all the comments and advise from the members as i know it has greatly improved my skills. what i don't like about this forum is the constant "pile-ons" as you call them. i thought this was a pen forum. was i wrong? i do not appreciate the occasional bashing of members or non members that goes on here. if surviving a near death and surgery has taught me anything, is that we are all different. if you don't like someone, that's ok.....i just don't need to know about it. if we have a bad vendor, that's useful information i can deal with as a busuness, not on a personal level. every vendor has bad experiences with customers and customers with bad vendors. it doesn't make them bad. i had good nurses with a terrible bedside manner and ones with good manners that weren't worth anything. point is, please don't rant on a personal level about anyone. if it's business, keep it business......period.

i have seen these pile-ons several times in spite of the moderators comments......it's sad to watch. i'd like to be indignant and rant myself and go on about how i will never watch this site again because of the personal attacks but the truth is that the IAP is full of some really great people and awsome advise and i have made friends that don't even know it yet. if i have to see the pile-ons, well......there's always another thread.....my 2 cents worth....
thanks......bear
 
How is this a pile-on? There are nearly equal comments on both sides of the issue. It seems like every time there is any kind of spirited discussion that has some uncomfortable aspect to it, someone makes a post exactly like this -- "I don't like this site because of the pile-ons."

People are discussing a business and the policies and practices of its owner. I don't see a single "personal attack." Am I blind??? What is a "personal attack"? What are the exact words that constitute a personal attack?

The problem here is one of the great aspects of this site - strong friendships. Here's yet another situation where the subject of discussion is a great friend to many. People don't like any even slightly negative comments about their friends. Perhaps the solution to getting upset about these sort of discussions is to be a little tolerant of the fact that we don't all have the same friends.

We make every attempt to come down on the correct side when judging whether or not something is a "personal attack", but there is a subjective aspect. Nobody is going to agree. Believe me, there are just as many people who feel this is a perfectly reasonable conversation to have as there are who feel it's not.

We CAN make some additional rules:

"Absolutely no discussion about anything negative."
"No mention of anyone by name."
"Posts with any complaints will be deleted."

Is that what we want?

artistwood said:
i started looking at this site in november when i turned my first pen in a class. i have appreciated all the comments and advise from the members as i know it has greatly improved my skills. what i don't like about this forum is the constant "pile-ons" as you call them. i thought this was a pen forum. was i wrong? i do not appreciate the occasional bashing of members or non members that goes on here. if surviving a near death and surgery has taught me anything, is that we are all different. if you don't like someone, that's ok.....i just don't need to know about it. if we have a bad vendor, that's useful information i can deal with as a busuness, not on a personal level. every vendor has bad experiences with customers and customers with bad vendors. it doesn't make them bad. i had good nurses with a terrible bedside manner and ones with good manners that weren't worth anything. point is, please don't rant on a personal level about anyone. if it's business, keep it business......period.

i have seen these pile-ons several times in spite of the moderators comments......it's sad to watch. i'd like to be indignant and rant myself and go on about how i will never watch this site again because of the personal attacks but the truth is that the IAP is full of some really great people and awsome advise and i have made friends that don't even know it yet. if i have to see the pile-ons, well......there's always another thread.....my 2 cents worth....
thanks......bear
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