Anybody get the email from DAYACOM?

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First I want to agree with Peter that shipping to Canada and many other foreign contries is not a big deal. It amounts to some extra paper work more than anything.
saying that I am interested in what Endicia is as 5 seconds is much faster than I can do that paper work.

Since I've been using Endicia for my shipping needs, international shipping is no longer a nightmare. I just fill in the address and what I'm shipping and Endicia generates the label, postage and customs form on one label in about 5 seconds.
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I really do not understand why people say that international shipping is a pain. I do it all the time with my cactus blanks and it is BARELY any more work than US. Now of course I am using Paypal almost exclusively and am doing USPS Priority Mail. It is just a matter of choosing what method you want to ship with and then filling in what is in your package. The insert the self adhesive Click-n-ship compatible label and print away. Now stick the label on the package and drop it in your mail box or a postal box. Nothing more to it at all.
 
Here are my thoughts on it.
there have been questions asked as to just where what kits come from for a long time. DAYCOM's add strikes more as an effort to answer that than anything. they seem to be focused on quality and I suspect want there name associated to that quality. I also wonder if this is an attempt to make sure there kits are not associated with that other company.

as for the other company, they seem to be focused on low cost to attract demand for there products. the fall of the U.S. Dollar would make keeping there product low cost more challenging.
trying to establish a more direct to the consumer method of moving the items would both keep the prices low and possibly increase the demand. I do not see they are getting great attention from the major suppliers here in the U.S. so it may also simply be an attempt to get around that.

Also DAYCOM's add is coming on the heels of Rehzings attemtpts to promote themselves. may be something in that but not to sure.
just some thoughts

Originally posted by johncrane


l am also wondering why' the Asian pen Manufacturers are going down this path.[^]:D
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The international shipping question is being incorrectly addressed. Yes, there are ways to make it relatively painless to ship to Canada, BUT if you are selling to Canada, you have a lot more responsibilities than you might imagine. And if you are taking someone from Canada's money and sending them products, you are selling to them. You have exporter requirements. You have customs requirements. You have tax authority requirements. Now I'm not the Postal Police and have no interest in "telling" anyone how to ship internationally, but it is incorrect to say that it is just as easy as it is to ship to the States. The next time you use any of the services, including PayPal and eBay, take time to read the check boxes. You are making a lot of LEGAL assertions.
 
Before I started Turncrafts in earnst, I availed myself in a free Global Logistics couse provided by the State Dept., Dept. of Commerce and a local Adult School program. The first thing we learned was that importing was relatively easy. Exporting is where we needed to spend much of out time on. And we have. Our teacher (35 years world trade experience and still working in all aspects of the business) seems to be on a holy crusade that we know the issues involved in exporting. I'm still no expert but I know where to find the answers.
 
Ok ok... enough talk about canuck shipping. Have you SEEN that Cloisonne pen!!! I LOVE it!

My pet peeve latly is that all the kits were starting to look the same. Center band with a black stripe... Eye candy I tell you, that pen is just plain eye candy! I want one... :D
 
The Cloisonne pen looks beautiful ... but ... I noticed in the description the words Rose Gold. I hope it's not like the Swiss Rose Gold on Berea's flat top American - it tarnishes in no time at all.
 
Originally posted by Firefyter-emt

Ok ok... enough talk about canuck shipping. Have you SEEN that Cloisonne pen!!! I LOVE it!

My pet peeve latly is that all the kits were starting to look the same. Center band with a black stripe... Eye candy I tell you, that pen is just plain eye candy! I want one... :D
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I really like it too, Lee. It caught my attention right away and I thought the same thing, "When and HOW can I get one... or six?"
 
Folks, check out their website and their ad. They are NOT looking to do group buys. They are looking for additional DISTRIBUTORS. Why would they deal directly with us and shaft there existing distributors? Now if we want to form a joint venture, invest capital, take risks, and so on and so on, I'm sure they would LOVE to sign us up as a new channel.
 
Originally posted by DCBluesman

Folks, check out their website and their ad. They are NOT looking to do group buys. They are looking for additional DISTRIBUTORS. Why would they deal directly with us and shaft there existing distributors? Now if we want to form a joint venture, invest capital, take risks, and so on and so on, I'm sure they would LOVE to sign us up as a new channel.
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Bingo!
 
Originally posted by alamocdc

I really like it too, Lee. It caught my attention right away and I thought the same thing, "When and HOW can I get one... or six?"
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How 'bout 500?

The "Dayacom Pen w/ Threaded End Cap" is my favorite. The "Elegant Beauty Twist Ball Pen" is funky, but is starting to grow on me.

Chris
 
Originally posted by MesquiteMan

Hmmmm...looks like Dayacom makes the Majestic for PSI.
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Most of PSI kits coms from them. As a matter of fact, most of the quality kit comes from them. I got over 300 bags here that says Taywan - Dayacom, either from PSI or CSU.

Alfred
 
I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, wholesaller means you are willing to meet the MOQ.
Also notice in the CSUSA catalog along with the Gentlemen's, jr. Gentlemen's, Statesman, jr. Statesman, Emperor, jr. Emperor, jr. Retro, Lotus, Ligero, and Imperial are the Logo Exclusive.
If you look on the dayacom site under company you will see they have been working with CSUSA since 1989. this coupled with the statement farther down that page that says "If you would like a price quote on kits of your design, please feel free to contact us". This tells me that although this is the source of the higher end kits, they are owned exclusivly by CSUSA. of course the design could be altered enough to then make it our own.
Just connecting some dots but may very well be drawing the wrong picture.
 
Originally posted by jcollazo

Originally posted by ed4copies

Realize that the Canadians add a new dimension to your shipping horrors, which will get worse as you do further investigation. (Just a warning).
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Since I've been using Endicia for my shipping needs, international shipping is no longer a nightmare. I just fill in the address and what I'm shipping and Endicia generates the label, postage and customs form on one label in about 5 seconds.
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Sadly for those of us that dont mail every month, Endicia charges a monthly fee after the trial period. Unless I missed something.
 
Originally posted by DCBluesman

Folks, check out their website and their ad. They are NOT looking to do group buys. They are looking for additional DISTRIBUTORS. Why would they deal directly with us and shaft there existing distributors? Now if we want to form a joint venture, invest capital, take risks, and so on and so on, I'm sure they would LOVE to sign us up as a new channel.
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In one of my posts in this thread I mentioned that I realized the email was specifically for me. I had originally contacted Dayacom in regards to carrying some of their non-pen kit items. They replied, then, that I should look to CSUSA for my purchasing needs. I thought that was the end of that. Yesterday I get this email from them with the link to the website. I was going to keep the info to myself until I saw the ad they were putting in AAW.

I am a wholesaler who didn't want to get into selling pen kits. But, if I could run the purchases as a GB then it COULD be a win win for both pen turners and Turncrafts. There are still a number of unanswered questions and some logistical issues to be ironed out. Monday or Tuesday we should know more.
 
Originally posted by wood-of-1kind

Originally posted by ed4copies

Realize that the Canadians add a new dimension to your shipping horrors, which will get worse as you do further investigation. (Just a warning).
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Ed (and other skeptics) this is simply not correct. George (TXDURANGO) proved this with a recent shipment that he made to me from Texas. A <2 lb. package shipped from Texas to Toronto, Canada was a mere $6.67 (first class mail). I just want to emphasize that this fallacy, that it's a 'nightmare'to ship to Canada just isn't correct. Once again, as Canucks, we're appreciative whenever we're included with the US driven GROUP BUYS. No greater effort to make a shipment to Canada as opposed to shipping to California.

-Peter-:)
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Peter,

At the risk of sounding argumentative, I have never had to fill out a customs form to ship to California. On the other hand, EVERY shipment to Canada has demanded this form. As I do it more often, I have the computer reject my calculations LESS often, but it is still an extra step that makes shipping to Canada a pain in the a$$.

I like you guys, so I still do it, but I sure understand why some of the American suppliers won't bother. Many orders are $20ish - profit about $3. IT ain't worth the trip to the Post Office. Make your orders $100 plus and there is motivation - but few hit this mark (vent completed) Back to my regularly scheduled positive mental attitude!! :D:D
 
I just composed a letter, a long one, then lost the darn thing when I went to post it.

In summary, I was having a rant about the comments related to potential Canadian customers. The negative comments are driving me bonkers!

Where do you think we live? We are right here, we share the worlds largest undefended border.

Canada supplies more crude oil to the US than Saudi Arabia and Iraq combined.

Canada supplies 85% of American imports of natural gas.

Canada supplies 1/3 of the uranium used in commercial reactors in the US.

Canada buys four times as much from the US than China.

One in 25 American jobs depends on free and open trade with Canada.

When I first joined this board I asked for the link to the web sites of members whom are also suppliers (Such a list still doesn't exist).

Do I have to get my supplies from the you? NO

Do we have pen kit suppliers in Canada? YES

DO we have Canadian suppliers for pen turning wood/acrylics and what have you? YES.

Do we pay Canadian taxes on our orders? YES, MUCH MORE THAN OFTEN.

So you see, we really don't need to shop from you at all. I do it because you are my community and I would rather put my money with 'my community' than someone else.

Some of you are talking as if Canadian customers are just not worth any amount of work. Goodness, you may have to line up at a post office, or worse, you may have to fill out a customs form, or last but not least, you may have to do more solid packaging for Canadian orders.

Someone mentioned that if we ordered in the $100 range it would be different. I guess our money isn't good enough for you. I recently tried to place an order in the range of $200 and the supplier berated me for even asking if he would ship to Canada.

All told my bits of money has amounted to almost $1000 of supplies in the last two months, a large part of that money went to suppliers who are members of this forum. During this year alone I have spent over $10,000 on wood turning tools, supplies, kits and wood/acrylic. I also bought a lathe so the figure is high for this year. But think of it? Canadians have money we prefer to send to some of you folks than buy here in Canada.

Please don't insult us by talking as if we are nothing but a pain in the a**.
 
I have sent packages to Canada, the U.K., Japan and Australia. For me, the extra minute or two it takes to fill out a customs form is just part of the job. I have always thought that the person purchasing from me could have easily spent their money somewhere else. They chose me. That's an important fact for me to remember. I try to give a quality product at a fair price and if that includes spending a few moments filling out an easy form... I will do it ... whether it's for $20 or $200. I guess that's just the way I'm wired. Setting up Turncrafts legally (tax and business permits) took some effort. This stuff is cake compared to that mess.
 
I too have no problem shipping to Canada or anywhere else internationally. My problem is trying to get a straight answer from USP. Still trying to find out if I can ship debonder and accelerator to Canada.
 
have been searching this company and trying to find the source of what they will offer above our normal sources? But if the price is right i would greatly buy into a group lot buy
Thanks Bbo
 
I got a reply to my e-mail. I am copying it here.
Dear Daniel,

Thanks your email received here.

Our offer are for wholesaler only. We do not supply with complete price lists
only offer with specific items and enquiry.

Please indicate items numbers, so that we can quote prices accordingly.

Shipment within 50-60 days after receipt of buyer's wire payment in advance.
At present our production schedule are a little tight because many orders are
reached here.

Thanks and best regards,

Angus Lee

My e-mail had asked what requirements needed to be met to be recognized as a wholesaler. for a complete price list, and for information regard cost of shipping to the U.S.
Not exactly a complete answer. bit i will give it another shot.
 
Guys/ladies:

This could be a blasphemous type post on this website...but here goes!

I have been a customer of our pen suppliers on and off for about 15 years. Generally speaking, they all provide excellent service and the small suppliers seem like nice guys to deal with.

Here comes the however...if they have been charging us, in some cases, 3 times (or more) their cost on a kit, my "price gouging" radar begins to go off. Let me preface these statements with the fact I have never been in business for myself, so I am not intimately familiar with the day to day costs of running a business, but it seems that a possible 300% profit margin is excessive.

I do not begrudge someone from making a fair profit, just as I would like to do from selling one of my pen masterpieces. I believe there is difference in creating a product vs. taking a plastic bag off the shelf and putting it in an envelope, thus percentage of profit should be higher for the hand made product. I know our suppliers have shipping costs to get the products from Asia, other overhead costs, etc., but come on...

If the Daycom website is accurate on some of the price listings, at least in my mind, I believe we deserve a justification for the prices we have been charged.
 
Ok, let's back it up a second. Are you really upset because our suppliers mark the product up 3X? Isn't that about what those of you who sell pens use as a multiplier to get your "wholesale" price? And then you know your wholesale price is doubled? So your retail price is really 6X your costs? And don't some of you strive to mark up your pens even more? Should our suppliers work on less margin than we want to? If the kits you purchase from our suppliers are not worth the markup, by all means, arrange for a $250k loan and stock your own. By the way, that only works out to 500 units each of 10 kits in 5 plating choices if you include shipping and other fees. Get real on this, folks. If there was really a ton of money to be made on these parts, don't you think there would be more than a handful of distributors? Don't get me wrong, I think the markups on the components is substantial, but excessive? I'm not convinced. And, by the way, I also don't have the $250k to start the business. [8D]
 
Originally posted by nvillerod

Guys/ladies:

Here comes the however...if they have been charging us, in some cases, 3 times (or more) their cost on a kit, my "price gouging" radar begins to go off. Let me preface these statements with the fact I have never been in business for myself, so I am not intimately familiar with the day to day costs of running a business, but it seems that a possible 300% profit margin is excessive.

I do not begrudge someone from making a fair profit, just as I would like to do from selling one of my pen masterpieces. I believe there is difference in creating a product vs. taking a plastic bag off the shelf and putting it in an envelope, thus percentage of profit should be higher for the hand made product. I know our suppliers have shipping costs to get the products from Asia, other overhead costs, etc., but come on...

If the Daycom website is accurate on some of the price listings, at least in my mind, I believe we deserve a justification for the prices we have been charged.
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Rod, if you don't mind lets just look at this for a moment. Say a kit costs them $5 and they charge $15 for it. that is a 300% charge over their original cost. Yes they have shipping. They also have to pay for a wharehouse, web-site, business license, occupation license, sign permits, computers, web-sites, constantly changing sales situations. They (for the most part) also have to have replacement parts for the times their customer service people send out a replacement kit. In most states they have to pay an inventory tax once each year for the total inventory they carry, and realize this isn't just for 20 or 30 kits, but 500 is the minimum order quantity. Now they also, or at least most of them, have to pay for competent help which ain't cheap. If they are paying someone $10.00 per hour, then they will have to make $16.-18.00 per hour just to cover the cost of that one person, when you figure in FICA, FUTA Social Security that must be paid (SS at 7.63matching funds from employer. Then business insurance, health insurance, Do you pay for the holidays?, and vacations?, jury duty? So that $10 per hour is closer to $18.00 per hour, not counting training time. Then you must realize that you usually pay for these kits when it is ordered, and as one post said, that is wire transfer 50-60 days BEFORE the kits are ready to ship, then 30-60 days shipping time. So your money is tied up for 90 to 120 days before the kits arive. Then you have to advertise the kits, sort, catalog, warehouse, etc. It may easily be 6 months before you sell the first kits and your money is already spent. Now you have to project how long it will take to sell enough of the kits to get your money back, cover overhead, cover labor costs, cover taxes, insurance etc. After that number is reached and all of your costs are covered. THEN can you start making a profit. That is if the kits sell well, and you do not have to discount them to move them as they are dogs.
Sorry for the length, but it ain't cheap to be in business for small items. It is not unusual for these items to be marked up 4, 5 or even 6 times tehir cost. Because $1. cost with a $400 % MU just gives you $4.00 to cover everything.

Rob
 
Rod you really need to take into account the cost of getting the merchandise to the purchaser in the actual price of the pen. I know you are a little cold today up there in Nobletucky, but think it through.[:p]

Besides it is not a 300% profit margin, but a 300% markup from their initial cost. Most likely, by the time they pay for shipping to them, someone to unpack and stock the merchandise, some sweet gal to take your order on the phone, an IT geek to make you a web site if you prefer to do business that way, another person to pull your order and then yet a seperate person to pack (same person cannot pull and pack, reduces errors), all their bennifits, the cost of the warehouse, utilities, office and packing supplies and anything else I forgot, do you honestly think they are making 300% proffit, or did I just justify part of their expense for you?

Mike
 
I would just like to know where the prices are listed on DAYACOM, does Rod have a different website page that I cannot see? I am just curious if it is like that other website that showed prices.

Mike
 
This may not be popular, but I've started a blog regarding doing a pseudo group buy from Dayacom. My reasons are listed on the blog and the main one is that this may become a commercial operation for Turncrafts.com and I don't want to utilize IAP bandwidth for Turncrafts business discussions. I hope I have the blog set up correctly so that you can read my thoughts and comments without having to register. To comment you will have to register.

Also, to get to the site, please PM me and I'll send out the link. You can give the link to any other pen turner but please don't publish it for the immediate world.

Now..... release the hounds!!!
 
Originally posted by nvillerod

Let me preface these statements with the fact I have never been in business for myself, so I am not intimately familiar with the day to day costs of running a business, but it seems that a possible 300% profit margin is excessive.
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I have started and ran a few businesses. What you call a 300% profit margin I call maybe, If I'm lucky, a 30% profit margin with a 270% cost of doing business. I know that statement will make any business person shake their head, but to the layman who doesn't see the fees, taxes, utilities, employees, insurance and other monies that must be paid before a product can be put up for sale It can look like someone is making a ton of money. Any vendor will price according to their costs. Importing has some many hidden fees that the rule of thumb is that the price on any item will double just to get it to a US port of entry. Sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more.
 
I'm reading all your information. Like I said, I have not been in business for myself. I am interested in all opinions...keep the justifications coming.
 
As a founder and business owner for 35 years, let's just say there is no reason anyone has to "justify" a price.

They made the product available and told you the pricing structure. For years, I have said the margin on the kits over $12 is ridiculous. HOWEVER, I have purchased these kits, nonetheless. If you have too, that was YOUR choice. Complain if you like, but the only way they will stop charging these prices is competitive pressure (which MAY develop with DAYACOM) or lack of consumer acceptance, which WOULD develop if all of us and the other thousands of hobbyists stop BUYING their product.

That's the way it is!! (Quoth Charles Kurault, I believe)
 
I have also ran businesses. note more than one. I am also one of those that preach the 3X rule for pricing pens. this pricing system is intended for the home hobbiest and is intended as a way to actually come away with more in your pocket than when you started. You take material costs times three and then add the cost of your time. Why three times materials? 1. is to recover the cost you paid for them 2. is a good rough way to pay for all the extras you never think about, like the electricity you paid for to turn the pen, the tools you used, fees for the shows you will take it to, a pen box and all the other extra doo dads (Overhead) 3. your shop itself has to be looked at like an employee and it has to be paid, this pay lets you expand, get the new timesaving tool or whatever you need to keep your shop up to date. Finally you need to add an hourly wage for you, that will be whatever it is worth to you to make and sell pens. If you want to make 20/ hour and it takes 30 min to make a slimline. you take the cost of the slimline kit+ blank X 3 + $10.00 = selling price.
the above system was never intended for a business with the massive overhead they have. The above system also takes into consideration taking cost of raw materials and converting into goods. By basic thought about retailers is that they double the cost of there items to resell it. but even that is not an ironclad system.
 
Ed, you are correct; I've purchased the kits at their prices because I had no choice. A business has a better chance of getting my money if I feel their prices are justified (we differ on that one).

Actually, Walter Cronkite used that quote as his news program sign off (damn I'm old).
 
I knew it was Walter Cronkite, and can remember hearing him say it. but i'm not old yet. seasoned maybe but not old.
Anyway anouther thought. recall the shipping charges from Rizheng? I really don't think shipping from DAYACOM is going to be drastically different. so there is easily anouther 30% to the cost.
 
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I am willing to pay for the convenience of ordering a single kit or 100 kits on my terms, when I need it. $3.59 or $3.75 for a cigar pen that I sell for $45.00? That is a no brainer. $50.00 for a kit I sell for $195.00 - I wish I could do that more frequently.

If you buy a candy bar at the convinience store - $.89
If you buy 500 from Hershey - $.21

I seldom need 500 candy bars.

My pens sell for a significant profit - even after paying for a kit that is priced to earn my supplier a profit. I want my suppliers to make a sufficient profit that allows them to continue to be my suppliers.

Chris

That doesn't mean I won't participate in a group buy, but most of my purchases will continue to come from my existing suppliers.
 
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