Is this Justified????

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Smitty37

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I'm just curious because I'm as guilty as anyone.

Given this truism : 24K gold plated kits are about the most widely available and popular finish in Pen Kit. Especially at the lower priced end but also in quite a few mid- price range kits. PSI offers nearly all of their most popular kits in 24K gold. So does CSUSA. So Does Rizheng from China and also Dayacom from Taiwan.


Does 24K Gold really deserve the down play it seems to get here? Somebody buys it.
 
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Smitty; This is my take on Gold Plating. The purer the gold, the softer it is. 10K gold is mixed with hard nickel and makes a more durable and affordable finish than 18k or 24K. 24K Gold is naturaly soft and wears quickly. It also depends on the thickness of the plating. With the price of gold today, I don't think the kit makers use any more than is needed to make it shine. It's still hard to beat the rich look of Gold. You can buy a Titanium plated pen kit in gold, that is garanteed for life, at very average prices. Jim S
 
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When I started turning pens -- quite a long time ago, the gold pens were plated with thin soft gold. In recent years, the gold has been covered, in many cases with a "clear coat" or "epoxy coat" that appears to function much like the clear over coat applied on automobiles.

The durability and service life of these "upgrade gold" kits seems to be pretty good.

I looked closely at one of the PSI bolt action in gold finish - and it was not the thin, wear through in a day coating. And the price is according
 
The only gold finishes I use are the ones that come in the slimline sample packs. I do not know if they are clear-coated or not. I think the satin are, and the standard gold are not. I don't sell them, I only give them away.

So far, no issues with plating rubbing off except for the occasional accident at the buffer. I don't use any of them daily, so I'm not much help there.

I will say that I greatly prefer gold titanium, even at the higher price point. It's probably an irrational precaution, but I don't think I could look a customer in the eye if they bought a pen and the finish rubbed off. I know nothing lasts forever, but I want to get as close to forever as I can!
 
Consider this

Set aside for a moment your personal prefrence...24K Gold has never been the cheapest finish, Chrome which wears well usually has that honor.


Why, if it is as bad as we here at IAP seem to think it is, do almost all vendors offer their products with that finish?
 
plantman said:
Smitty; This is my take on Gold Plating. The purer the gold, the softer it is. 10K gold is mixed with hard nickel and makes a more durable and affordable finish than 18k or 24K. 24K Gold is naturaly soft and wears quickly. It also depends on the thickness of the plating. With the price of gold today, I don't think the kit makers use any more than is needed to make it shine. It's still hard to beat the rich look of Gold. You can buy a Titanium plated pen kit in gold, that is garanteed for life, at very average prices. Jim S
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I'm sure that most of what you're saying is true (10K might not be mixed with nickel any more - nickel is no longer used in White Gold) But - what I'm wondering is whether or not we are "over-killing" and perhaps missing something. Why do all the big sellers offer so much of it - it must sell or they wouldn't bother.
 
My opinion: gold triggers the mind to think elegance, or a sense of flashiness throughout history. Gold is classically viewed as being for the wealthy much like prime rib and Porsche automobiles. Many people (non pen-turners) make these connections between gold and elegance, therefore the big vendors are probably selling more of these kits to the beginning hobbyist that thinks 22k sounds amazing. Even for the advanced turners selling pens: how many of your customers pick up gold first?

My personal preference is satin light colors (nickel, chrome, silver) for hardware as it appears more durable, and it's just what I like. Plus, if you're an average joe looking at platings by name, what has more appeal to the ears? "22 karat gold" or "chrome"?
 
I think Clark pretty much hit it on the head.
To the uninitiated, 24k gold 'sounds' the best. Do you remember the very first time you came across kit pens and saw how cheap gold slims were? Like me, you probably thought you could give up work and make a living just selling gold pens.
It's just like the IPG lie on fountain pen nibs, they have no iridium and have never been anywhere near Germany except perhaps in the overhead plane from China crossing Europe.
Sellers are in it to make money and will happily pass on the misconception as the truth.
Show me a vendor site that honestly states the truth about IPG nibs or where their 'hand made writing instruments' really come from........
We even try to bs ourselves by calling them component sets rather than kits.:wink:
 
My customers are impulse buyers at my vendor table in a mid-grade Marriott resort resort on Kauai. My reality is that this customer group does not want gold pens, as a rule. I started selling pens in 2009, and against the advice of my then wife, I had about an even mix of gold and rhodium (or chrome) on the table. The gold just sat, and the silver colored pens sold. So I adjusted my mix to allow for the occasional gold buyer, and that is what works. This, by the way corresponds with what sells in the jewelry arena. A mix that is heavily rhodium or silver, and very little gold. Give the customer what they want. It keeps me busy in my pen studio.
 
skiprat said:
I think Clark pretty much hit it on the head.
To the uninitiated, 24k gold 'sounds' the best. Do you remember the very first time you came across kit pens and saw how cheap gold slims were? Like me, you probably thought you could give up work and make a living just selling gold pens.
It's just like the IPG lie on fountain pen nibs, they have no iridium and have never been anywhere near Germany except perhaps in the overhead plane from China crossing Europe.
Sellers are in it to make money and will happily pass on the misconception as the truth.
Show me a vendor site that honestly states the truth about IPG nibs or where their 'hand made writing instruments' really come from........
We even try to bs ourselves by calling them component sets rather than kits.:wink:
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Most of what you say is true enough but calling them component sets rather than kits is aimed at showing that the purchaser has to 'add value' which one doesn't really have to do with the battleship Missouri hobby kits - every thing you need is in the box - not so with pens.
 
SteveG said:
My customers are impulse buyers at my vendor table in a mid-grade Marriott resort resort on Kauai. My reality is that this customer group does not want gold pens, as a rule. I started selling pens in 2009, and against the advice of my then wife, I had about an even mix of gold and rhodium (or chrome) on the table. The gold just sat, and the silver colored pens sold. So I adjusted my mix to allow for the occasional gold buyer, and that is what works. This, by the way corresponds with what sells in the jewelry arena. A mix that is heavily rhodium or silver, and very little gold. Give the customer what they want. It keeps me busy in my pen studio.
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Steve, you have hit on a something there - here 'native American' jewelery is almost entirely silver and I've never seen any in gold, so I can see where in a venue along side that jewelery silver colors would outsell gold. Also, you might be in an area where silver is just more popular, there are known populations where silver is very highly thought of, or considered lucky so silver colors are just more attractive to those people. Many coin collectors love silver coins, but won't touch gold with a stick.
 
In the few years that I have been making/selling pens I have found that the "older people" ( say 45 and up ) tend to go for gold whereas the younger people tend to go for the chrome or rhodium. However after having a few unhappy customers because of how the gold wears, I tend to stay away from it as much as possible now.
 
As a middle aged turner i've noticed that younger people like chrome, Silver, white gold over yellow gold any day. i think it is just what is popular now with people. I also like ot turn what I think looks good and gold to me isnt as nice and shiny as chrome or silver so i only have a few gold offerings.
 
CrimsonKeel said:
As a middle aged turner i've noticed that younger people like chrome, Silver, white gold over yellow gold any day. i think it is just what is popular now with people. I also like ot turn what I think looks good and gold to me isnt as nice and shiny as chrome or silver so i only have a few gold offerings.
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Do you suppose thats because there's not much Chrome on cars these days? Remember the Chrome, and Fins from the old days? Cars today are a lot better, but they sure don't look as good in my opinion. When I pulled up in my canary bomb (Black Top, Yellow bottom 57 Chevy Bel Aire two door hardtop) everybody knew who just entered the parking lot - not so with today's cars (My wife's VW convertable with Snoopy on each door surrounded by daisys the exception) seen one - you've seen 'em all. :rolleyes:
 
You really need to match/ accent the kit component with the blank. I'm looking at Swann Fine Writing & Vintage catalog. maybe 25% show silver verses 75% gold. range in price 400 to 9,000 dollars. the catalog is 2 years ago.

What I have seen from members from IAP is putting the wrong component color to match the style of the blank. And I've done it and the pen just sits there. I had a yellow fountain pen and I place a combo nib gold & silver I sat for 1 1/2 Then I replaced the nib to 100% silver the pen sold
 
avbill said:
You really need to match/ accent the kit component with the blank. I'm looking at Swann Fine Writing & Vintage catalog. maybe 25% show silver verses 75% gold. range in price 400 to 9,000 dollars. the catalog is 2 years ago.

What I have seen from members from IAP is putting the wrong component color to match the style of the blank. And I've done it and the pen just sits there. I had a yellow fountain pen and I place a combo nib gold & silver I sat for 1 1/2 Then I replaced the nib to 100% silver the pen sold
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I agree that pairing of the kit to the blank can make or break a sale. Gold is tricky to pair. I'm a fan of contrast. Light woods get dark platings (gun metal, black chrome), and the darker woods get my lighter colored components (chrome/silver). I feel that gold looks elegant with something VERY dark like black acrylic/ebonite or African Blackwood. However, chrome colors also look good with dark (or black) woods, so I find it difficult to decide what to choose.

I have a custom order for a soon-to-be Vanderbilt graduate. School colors are black and gold, so the thought process of how to pair with hardware plating(s) is starting to get lengthy. Once the cast is finished, it won't be as difficult to decide. My rambling point is, sometimes we plan a pen without visualizing the end results in their entirety.
 
FYI.

From the Penn State Industries website --

"Penn State Industries guarantees that 24kt gold-plated components of specified pen, pencils and similar project kits will not tarnish, wear, or fade. This guarantee is limited only to the gold-plated components and does not apply to parts that are consumed by normal use of the product. Penn State reserves the option to replace the defective component, replace the project kit, or issue a monetary refund."

It appears that this guarantee applies to some of their product lines. You would have to check the specific descriptions.
Some examples would include Slimline, Comfort, and Gatsby, (not necessarily all kits within those lines).

Bob
 
rholiday said:
FYI.

From the Penn State Industries website --

"Penn State Industries guarantees that 24kt gold-plated components of specified pen, pencils and similar project kits will not tarnish, wear, or fade. This guarantee is limited only to the gold-plated components and does not apply to parts that are consumed by normal use of the product. Penn State reserves the option to replace the defective component, replace the project kit, or issue a monetary refund."

It appears that this guarantee applies to some of their product lines. You would have to check the specific descriptions.
Some examples would include Slimline, Comfort, and Gatsby, (not necessarily all kits within those lines).

Bob
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They used to include all but their "funline" series but I do not know if that is still true.
 
Smitty37 said:
SteveG said:
My customers are impulse buyers at my vendor table in a mid-grade Marriott resort resort on Kauai. My reality is that this customer group does not want gold pens, as a rule. I started selling pens in 2009, and against the advice of my then wife, I had about an even mix of gold and rhodium (or chrome) on the table. The gold just sat, and the silver colored pens sold. So I adjusted my mix to allow for the occasional gold buyer, and that is what works. This, by the way corresponds with what sells in the jewelry arena. A mix that is heavily rhodium or silver, and very little gold. Give the customer what they want. It keeps me busy in my pen studio.
Click to expand...
Steve, you have hit on a something there - here 'native American' jewelery is almost entirely silver and I've never seen any in gold, so I can see where in a venue along side that jewelery silver colors would outsell gold. Also, you might be in an area where silver is just more popular, there are known populations where silver is very highly thought of, or considered lucky so silver colors are just more attractive to those people. Many coin collectors love silver coins, but won't touch gold with a stick.
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I sell my pens at A Kauai based resort. My customers are mostly westbound tourists, that is from mainland USA. And this includes people from all over the US. So what I observe in sales preference has general application as compared to sellers whose customer base is either local or regional. I just hope that my info is useful to other sellers. If, as a seller, you put out the wrong mix, you could definitely influence what you end up selling the most of, just by what you make available. But if it is the wrong mix, you could be losing sales because of that, and not realize what you are doing to your own success, as measured by total sales. I do not claim to be a retail in expert, but I have had about 20 years selling experience, selling my hand crafted products.
 
I give a lifetime warranty, so I am afraid of gold and don't make that many. It also seems like buyers are preferring the rhodium and black Ti. I rarely have a custom buyer select gold.
 
Smitty37 said:
CrimsonKeel said:
As a middle aged turner i've noticed that younger people like chrome, Silver, white gold over yellow gold any day. i think it is just what is popular now with people. I also like ot turn what I think looks good and gold to me isnt as nice and shiny as chrome or silver so i only have a few gold offerings.
Click to expand...
Do you suppose thats because there's not much Chrome on cars these days? Remember the Chrome, and Fins from the old days? Cars today are a lot better, but they sure don't look as good in my opinion. When I pulled up in my canary bomb (Black Top, Yellow bottom 57 Chevy Bel Aire two door hardtop) everybody knew who just entered the parking lot - not so with today's cars (My wife's VW convertable with Snoopy on each door surrounded by daisys the exception) seen one - you've seen 'em all. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...



I'm 54. When I was in High School, cars were our life-line into our social life.

My 19 yr old daughter: Her cell phone is her life-line into her social life.....

Times are very different.

Just suppose I/we/any of us had to take away "priviledges... The car "OK." Internet/cell phone... "NO WAY".

Times are very different!
 
mark james said:
Smitty37 said:
CrimsonKeel said:
As a middle aged turner i've noticed that younger people like chrome, Silver, white gold over yellow gold any day. i think it is just what is popular now with people. I also like ot turn what I think looks good and gold to me isnt as nice and shiny as chrome or silver so i only have a few gold offerings.
Click to expand...
Do you suppose thats because there's not much Chrome on cars these days? Remember the Chrome, and Fins from the old days? Cars today are a lot better, but they sure don't look as good in my opinion. When I pulled up in my canary bomb (Black Top, Yellow bottom 57 Chevy Bel Aire two door hardtop) everybody knew who just entered the parking lot - not so with today's cars (My wife's VW convertable with Snoopy on each door surrounded by daisys the exception) seen one - you've seen 'em all. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...



I'm 54. When I was in High School, cars were our life-line into our social life.

My 19 yr old daughter: Her cell phone is her life-line into her social life.....

Times are very different.

Just suppose I/we/any of us had to take away "priviledges... The car "OK." Internet/cell phone... "NO WAY".

Times are very different!
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Hmmmm, I wonder how one watches the "submarine races" on their cell phone.:biggrin:
 
I don't purchase 24 ct components anymore. The plating rubs off too easily. I have had better luck with the 10 kt.

I pretty much look for the gold tn now as my go to.

Karl
 
bedangerous said:
Currently the most commonly selling engagement rings are white gold with an antique finish.
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Hmmmm...How do the Jewelers get an antique finish on white gold? And, what does an antique finish on white gold look like.In case you are wondering - those are real questions asking for information - not doubting your word.

My definition of White Gold is an alloy of 60% to 75% Gold and 25% to 40% other metals to make it harder and give it the white color making it about 14.4K to 18K.
 
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We have touched on why we avoid 24K gold (which is not the question) but very little on why the major players offer this metal, that we think is such a poor choice, virtually across their whole line and especially in the low end (which is the question). It is not the cheapest plating, chrome (which we seem to have a consensus, is a better choice) is. So I guess the answer to the original question is that we just don't know.
 
Well, I suppose we could put the question to the larger vendors like this:

"Without divulging any financial particulars, could you provide a percentage breakdown of component sales by plating?" It would be interesting to know what percentage of kits places like Rockler, Woodcraft, Woodturningz and PSI are in fact gold (be it actual gold plating or TN).
 
My guess is that they probably sell a lot of 24k kits. I suspect that the number of advanced turners who sell pens for a living or a substantial % of their income & who eschew 24k is really a small percentage of the total pen turner population and for whatever reasons, 24k kits are appealing to us novice turners.

Personally, my wife & I like 24k pens and I make as many of them as all other platings combined. Might that change as I gain more experience? Perhaps, but I really like the pairing of 24k gold with olive wood better than any other plating & I make a lot of BOW pens.
 
I've been turning for only a year or two, and when I first started buying kits I have ZERO knowledge of platings. I wear no jewelry besides my wedding ring, I never buy watches for more than $50 (I have a construction job so they are quite disposable) and my wife is not a jewelry kinda gal. I was as green as could be when it came to knowing what was expensive, or just shiny.

When I read "24kt gold", I thought "Wow! That must be a real bargain! It's made out of gold and I'm only paying a few dollars!"

I'm not ashamed to admit my naivete. lol.

Long before I learned more about the platings, I stopped buying the gold just out of preference. I don't really like the look too much. It's not something I would personally purchase. It is difficult sometimes for me to separate what I like from what a customer might, but it feels better creating something I enjoy aesthetically.

The funny thing is I see gold pens posted here all the time that I thimnk are spectacular.

Now I'm 40, so I don't know about age groups and what they like, I can only speak for myself obviously. I'm only stating my feelings to give a newbie turners point of view.

On an unrelated note, that may be the first time I've written the phrase "I'm 40".

It feels odd to see that in writing. lol.
 
eliasbboy said:
I've been turning for only a year or two, and when I first started buying kits I have ZERO knowledge of platings. I wear no jewelry besides my wedding ring, I never buy watches for more than $50 (I have a construction job so they are quite disposable) and my wife is not a jewelry kinda gal. I was as green as could be when it came to knowing what was expensive, or just shiny.

When I read "24kt gold", I thought "Wow! That must be a real bargain! It's made out of gold and I'm only paying a few dollars!"

I'm not ashamed to admit my naivete. lol.

Long before I learned more about the platings, I stopped buying the gold just out of preference. I don't really like the look too much. It's not something I would personally purchase. It is difficult sometimes for me to separate what I like from what a customer might, but it feels better creating something I enjoy aesthetically.

The funny thing is I see gold pens posted here all the time that I thimnk are spectacular.

Now I'm 40, so I don't know about age groups and what they like, I can only speak for myself obviously. I'm only stating my feelings to give a newbie turners point of view.

On an unrelated note, that may be the first time I've written the phrase "I'm 40".

It feels odd to see that in writing. lol.
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Hmmmm, count your blessings....none of my children will ever see 40 again.....
 
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