Bronze Kitless FP

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More4dan

More4dan

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
2,102
Location
Katy, TX
This is my first experience turning bronze. I used carbide inserts on my mini metal lathe. Turning was problem free. Drilling took some care, good cutting fluid and frequent chip clearing. It did not like my HSS cutoff tool, grabbing the tool and torquing the tool post. I used a hacksaw to make cuts on the lathe. On to the pen.

The pen uses a M11 x 0.8 triple start for the cap and a M9. X 0.75 for the section. The finial uses a M7 x 0.75 thread. The front section was made to use either a JOWO #5 or a Schmidt FPS rollerball nib. It currently has a JOWO #5 "Arrow" nib in polished Stainless Steel with a fine tip. The converter is a Schmidt K6 threaded converter. The clip is recessed in the cap and is from a PSI seam ripper kit. I'm anxious to see how the color changes with time. Comments and suggestions are always welcome.
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12F904F8-09C0-4A61-B52D-C25B52A5B5EE.jpeg


Danny
 
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magpens said:
Very B*E*A*U*T*I*F*U*L, Danny !!!

Very well done !!!

Where did you buy the bronze rod ?
Click to expand...

Thanks Mal. I got the phosphorus bronze from Online metals, make sure you get the "free turning" spec. It makes drilling and turning easier. Also check the available diameters, sometimes the larger one was cheaper.

Danny




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Beautiful design and superb finish! That is the kind of design I could only expect from an artist & engineer!

There was a thread many years ago here on IAP that discussed (in a couple of posts only within the thread) the difference between a "good design" versus "magnificently artistic" - was often the difference of a half a degree in an angle or curve, or the placement of a curve or angle just 1mm different. You got that one perfect!
 
leehljp said:
Beautiful design and superb finish! That is the kind of design I could only expect from an artist & engineer!

There was a thread many years ago here on IAP that discussed (in a couple of posts only within the thread) the difference between a "good design" versus "magnificently artistic" - was often the difference of a half a degree in an angle or curve, or the placement of a curve or angle just 1mm different. You got that one perfect!
Click to expand...

Thanks Lee! Your feedback has always been helpful. I've spent a lot of time trying to get the taper and curve "just right". I lengthened the body a bit but I think the cap may be a bit long. More experimenting will tell.

Danny


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Danny, that is an absolutely beautiful pen, and I hate the thoughts of allowing it to tarnish/turn color. If it belonged to me, I would make sure that it was thoroughly sealed to prevent/protect it from turning color. I would have given it a coating of lacquer right after sanding, and then given it even more coats to get the shine and finish I wanted. But, to each their own, it's your pen to do as you like with. I just hate the idea, of it tarnishing.

Len
 
Lucky2 said:
Danny, that is an absolutely beautiful pen, and I hate the thoughts of allowing it to tarnish/turn color. If it belonged to me, I would make sure that it was thoroughly sealed to prevent/protect it from turning color. I would have given it a coating of lacquer right after sanding, and then given it even more coats to get the shine and finish I wanted. But, to each their own, it's your pen to do as you like with. I just hate the idea, of it tarnishing.

Len
Click to expand...

I can always polish it back if I don't like the patina look. I'm guessing a clear lacquer should work.

Danny


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Danny, lacquer is my main finish for a pen like this one, it seems to work better and lasts longer than a varnish. Any pens that I've used lacquer for a finish on, are all still in good shape finish wise. And if I still lived where I used to, I could post a few pics of those pens. But I don't, and I no longer have any contact with those people.

Len
 
Design and craftsmanship are just perfect, no question about it.
But as an user, I would worry about the duration of the finish. Some speak of adding varnish, I would say it will necessarily wear off. If you let the bronze without any, it will necessarly tarnish, for instance if one live by the sea. And the wheight could be an issue. What d'you think Dan?
 
Thanks everyone for the kind comments and suggestions. There were a few questions on dimensions, so here goes.

Cap:
OD is 0.480" at the body and 0.345" at the end of the finial
Length is 2.515"

Body:
OD above the cap threads is 0.425" and 0.300" at the end
Length is 3.275" plus 0.875" front section for an overall length of 4.150" to the front of the section. The nib adds another 0.765" in length

Front Section
OD at the threads and the nib is 0.400" tapered to 0.365" in the middle

The Pen capped is 5.580" long

Weight is 40 grams uncapped and 68 grams capped.

For comparison a PSI Art Deco rollerball made with Rino Plastic is 31 grams uncapped and 57 grams capped.

Danny
 
Not to repeat what's already been said, but the pen is absolutely gorgeous.

While I'm a big fan of patinas and "evolving" finishes, though, there's a chance you might want to give some thought to lacquer after all.

I'm far from an expert (read: basically clueless), but I do know that a lot of "free-machining" metals get that way by adding lead (wikipedia says free-machining phosphor bronze uses 0.5-3% lead, and McMaster-Carr lists some Easy-to-Machine Bearing Bronze with 11-13%), which may be less than ideal for something that gets as much handling as a pen. I don't know much (read: anything) about skin absorption, though, or how high a percentage one actually needs to worry about, assuming the pen isn't being licked, chewed on, or... err... taken internally.


-Bats
(mmm... pen-licking...)
 
Bats said:
Not to repeat what's already been said, but the pen is absolutely gorgeous.

While I'm a big fan of patinas and "evolving" finishes, though, there's a chance you might want to give some thought to lacquer after all.

I'm far from an expert (read: basically clueless), but I do know that a lot of "free-machining" metals get that way by adding lead (wikipedia says free-machining phosphor bronze uses 0.5-3% lead, and McMaster-Carr lists some Easy-to-Machine Bearing Bronze with 11-13%), which may be less than ideal for something that gets as much handling as a pen. I don't know much (read: anything) about skin absorption, though, or how high a percentage one actually needs to worry about, assuming the pen isn't being licked, chewed on, or... err... taken internally.


-Bats
(mmm... pen-licking...)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the concern Bats. Your post sent me searching the internet. Lead doesn't enter the body through the skin. It's dangerous if eaten or the dust is inhaled. So, I've already gotten through the dangerous time, sanding and finishing the pen. It should be okay now. I will have to don the respirator next time I sand bronze though. I did order lead free brass for turning but didn't think of the lead in the bronze. I've also discovered that even some stainless steels contain lead. Check the MSDS sheets folks when working new materials.

Danny


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More4dan said:
Thanks for the concern Bats. Your post sent me searching the internet. Lead doesn't enter the body through the skin. It's dangerous if eaten or the dust is inhaled. So, I've already gotten through the dangerous time, sanding and finishing the pen. It should be okay now. I will have to don the respirator next time I sand bronze though.
I did order lead free brass for turning but didn't think of the lead in the bronze. I've also discovered that even some stainless steels contain lead.
Click to expand...
Interesting - I'd never run into it in a stainless before... although I suppose I also haven't worked with a whole lot of stainless.

Funny you should mention the sanding & inhalation issue, since I've turned & sanded a lot of 12L14 free-machining steel, and was always very conscientious about washing my hands afterwards (gotta worry about hand-to-mouth contamination on taco night, after all), but didn't even think about respiratory protection. Oops. 🙄

More4dan said:
Check the MSDS sheets folks when working new materials.
Click to expand...
If only they'd include one with raw stock... Wishful thinking, I guess. Sometimes it can be hard to even figure out what alloy they're selling, never mind what precautions it requires.


In any case, glad it was actually helpful.


-Bats
(...as opposed to being that other kind of "help")
 
Danny, did you use a collet chuck with that? Where there any issues with the chuck marking the surface area you were holding?
 
I used a collet chuck for most of the turning. However, I used a threaded piece of aluminum to hold the bronze for sanding and polishing. The aluminum was in the collet. The chuck didn't mark the bronze when holding it but it wasn't in final finish. It would likely scratch it. I have wrapped pens in painters tape and use the collet chuck without marking.

Danny


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Bats said:
Interesting - I'd never run into it in a stainless before... although I suppose I also haven't worked with a whole lot of stainless.

Funny you should mention the sanding & inhalation issue, since I've turned & sanded a lot of 12L14 free-machining steel, and was always very conscientious about washing my hands afterwards (gotta worry about hand-to-mouth contamination on taco night, after all), but didn't even think about respiratory protection. Oops. [emoji849]


If only they'd include one with raw stock... Wishful thinking, I guess. Sometimes it can be hard to even figure out what alloy they're selling, never mind what precautions it requires.


In any case, glad it was actually helpful.


-Bats
(...as opposed to being that other kind of "help")
Click to expand...

My last orders from Online metals did include composition and heat number data. MSDS are available on their site.

Danny


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More4dan said:
My last orders from Online metals did include composition and heat number data. MSDS are available on their site.
Click to expand...
Serves me right for buying my metal on Ebay. :rolleyes:

Sounds like I'll have to give them a try next time - although it's too bad they only ship UPS.
 
Bats said:
Serves me right for buying my metal on Ebay. :rolleyes:

Sounds like I'll have to give them a try next time - although it's too bad they only ship UPS.
Click to expand...

Shipping can get expensive. I play with quantities and lengths to try to get the best overall deal. Sometimes 6' lengths can be better.

Danny


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Danny

very impressive work , as always !

I think you've got the cap proportions right from the photos .

Re the turning and cuttighosrphor bronze does "grab" as does brass and apparently ( not tried it much) usng tools with minimal top rake (ie flat topped ) to return it does improves things.
When drilling it , like brass, it's recommended in the model engineering books, to use drills with the tips slightly blunted as the drill tends to grab and pull into the material due to the helix angle.

This is a good site for advice as well. https://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=11229.0

Not sure how it will age and colour but should be interesting.đź‘Ť
 
howsitwork said:
Danny

very impressive work , as always !

I think you've got the cap proportions right from the photos .

Re the turning and cuttighosrphor bronze does "grab" as does brass and apparently ( not tried it much) usng tools with minimal top rake (ie flat topped ) to return it does improves things.
When drilling it , like brass, it's recommended in the model engineering books, to use drills with the tips slightly blunted as the drill tends to grab and pull into the material due to the helix angle.

This is a good site for advice as well. https://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=11229.0

Not sure how it will age and colour but should be interesting.[emoji106]
Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments.
That's a very good point on the drill bit geometry, it also holds for copper. I did take my diamond card and "flatten" the cutting edge a bit and it does make a difference. MagicTap cutting fluid helps too.

Danny



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More4dan said:
Thanks Mal. I got the phosphorus bronze from Online metals, make sure you get the "free turning" spec. It makes drilling and turning easier. Also check the available diameters, sometimes the larger one was cheaper.

Danny




Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
Click to expand...
I like the look of the pen. Is it mean to mention that I live about 5 miles from one of Online metal's locations?
 
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