Where to cast

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E

esears

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
56
Location
Redstone Arsenal, AL
So..after not really paying attention to people, evidently casting PR in the kitchen and in the living room, then letting it cure in the bathroom overnight is not feasible in my LOML's eye. Being in Alabama, it tends to get rather humid here. I don't have a garage or a basement, where is next best place to cast or let cure at?
 
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Eric, mix and cast outside, pressurize the pot then bring it in to cure. Just remember to take it back outside when you bleed off the pressure.
 
I used to cast in the garage. That ended when my wife got pregnant. The fumes now make her ill, so all casting has been banished to a shed. As it get's hotter, I imagine that I will actually mix and pour outside and then just pop into the shed to place it in the pot and pressurize (or vac, depending).
 
I do all my casting on our deck. No pressure pot. I simply put the form on a level post top and once everything is poured, I place a small scrap of plywood over it to keep anything from getting into it that's not intended (bugs, rain, etc.).

Works for me.
 
Thats funny stuff righ there. Eric, I did the same thing, well not in the throne room. I tried curing the PR in my garage and near killed myself from the fumes. Humidity really wreaked havoc. Last time I cured some PR, I did it outside and closed the garage. It still smelled like a chemistry experiment gone wrong, but no complaints.
 
PR's fumes are really not good for you, like at all. Since you are more or less confined to your house, I would switch to alumilite which doesn't have the toxic fumes like PR.
 
Just because something doesn't have an obnoxious odor does not mean it is safe. When I asked about molding an item using Alumilite they responded that it was not FDA approved.

All of these resins, finishes etc. need to be used with extreme caution. You never really know even with reports that it is safe what may happen in 5, 10 or 20 years down the road.
 
dogcatcher said:
Just because something doesn't have an obnoxious odor does not mean it is safe. When I asked about molding an item using Alumilite they responded that it was not FDA approved.

All of these resins, finishes etc. need to be used with extreme caution. You never really know even with reports that it is safe what may happen in 5, 10 or 20 years down the road.
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This is true, but even still it's well known that PR is worse than alumilite in terms of toxicity....you don't want to brew up either of them next to your infant's crib, but alumilite is much less offensive. Do whatever you want but the smell is one of the biggest reasons people prefer alumilite over PR.
 
As I said in a PM reply to a question from dogcatcher...Alumilite is not FDA approved becasue the company has not choosen to pay to have it tested and certified by the FDA. In order to be FDA approved, you have to pay to have it tested and then submit the results to the FDA for approval. That does not mean it is not safe, just that they have not choosen to spend the money since there is not a real market for stuff that is cast with Alumilite that is intended to be in direct contact with food or put in your mouth. Heck, mesquite is not FDA approved either!
 
sbell111 said:
By the same token, just because a company chooses not to have their product tested, does not mean that it's safe.
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We should really treat everything we work with as hazardous. Heck, even plastic soda bottles now aren't considered 'safe' to reuse, so what are we gonna do? I would say as a general rule, with anything we're doing it needs to be done outside of the house!
 
GouletPens said:
We should really treat everything we work with as hazardous. Heck, even plastic soda bottles now aren't considered 'safe' to reuse, so what are we gonna do? I would say as a general rule, with anything we're doing it needs to be done outside of the house!
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I agree, but when I get an email that says it is not approved by the FDA for contact with the mouth then the rules change. Key words are "contact" and "mouth" that right there sent up flares and red flag warnings.

I sent my email asking about using the Alumilite castings for duck calls. How many people will use them not knowing they have or have not been approved? I would rather caution on the safe side, especially since I am one of the users.
 
I cast in my basement but degas outside. So far no complaints for the LOML.

Dogcatcher,
Do we know if any of the plastics we use are safe to put to our lips or for that the matter the wood and finishes we use? (Not trying to start an argument as I would really like to know since I will be making calls in the near future.)
 
There are quite a few plastics that have been approved by the FDA. Even with the approvals there are different levels of safety, some are okay for dry food products and some are not safe with wet products. But even the government can be wrong, what is safe today may become a hazard tomorrow. With the finishes, again you need to check them out and see what has been approved.
 
I would guess that PR, CA, lacquer, acrelester, bakelite, etc. are not FDA approved either. How about cocobolo or rosewood?

Companies have to CYA. They could not have told you that it was safe for use in the mouth since they have not had it tested. The prudent thing would be to say that it is not FDA approved for mouth contact.
 
In reality the FDA doesn't approve products, it regulates what can be used in the products. There is a set of regulations that establishes how safe a finish product is for food contact. These regulations are in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 21, Part 175.

As to the current finishes on the market, the lacquers, varnishes etc. that are manufactured as finishes are safe as they only contain approved ingredients. These finishes are considered toxic until they have cured. Not dry but cured. These are the finishes that are marketed as wood finishes, not the "exotic" concoctions that some people create. This includes CA finishes, I have no idea as to how safe CA is. I don't use it so checking into that is not on my priority list. Right now I am looking for a resin that is safe to for food contact. I will be concerned about the CA if and when I change my mind about it.
 
dogcatcher said:
In reality the FDA doesn't approve products, it regulates what can be used in the products. There is a set of regulations that establishes how safe a finish product is for food contact. These regulations are in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 21, Part 175.

As to the current finishes on the market, the lacquers, varnishes etc. that are manufactured as finishes are safe as they only contain approved ingredients. These finishes are considered toxic until they have cured. Not dry but cured. These are the finishes that are marketed as wood finishes, not the "exotic" concoctions that some people create. This includes CA finishes, I have no idea as to how safe CA is. I don't use it so checking into that is not on my priority list. Right now I am looking for a resin that is safe to for food contact. I will be concerned about the CA if and when I change my mind about it.
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Well that definately lets polyester resins out as PR's will emit micro amounts of styrene forever.


.
 
Sorry for jumping in this one a little late ...

Good points all around. I don't know of any multiple component resins that are FDA approved. Some may be, as someone mentioned, compliant based on the raw materials used in the system that are part of an approved list of raw materials the FDA has approved for specific applications. Some are for repeated contact with food such as "21 CFR 177.2600 - Rubber articles intended for repeated use" and others are only suited for contact with dry food, etc, etc.

The issue that becomes very relevant with unmixed materials is the chemical reaction. Even though the raw materials used in a system could be "compliant" on the approved list of raw materials, once those chemicals react they may form a different material which could or could not be safe for the intended use. The other factor is stoichiometry or the "mix". What if the material completely crosslinks at 1:1. Meaning all of the x's find all the o's and nothing is leftover once the material has fully cured. However, say the user dumps their A side cup into their B side cup and the actual ratio used is then 100 parts B to only 95 parts A due to the residue left in the measuring cup. Theoretically the material could be so sensitive to the crosslinking that it is possible you may have all the x's tied up and some remaining o's floating around not crosslinked. Then when tested for ppm of extraction, the material may fail the FDA testing due to the left over uncrosslinked material found in the finished part.

It is my understanding (I am not an FDA expert and don't pretend to be and if you are looking for an expert's ruling on this, please ask one), that the finished product itself would actually have to be tested to be labeled "FDA approved". I do know some extruded plastics are compliant for the use of contact with food. Same goes with many platinum based (or addition cured) silicone rubber systems. The raw materials used in those systems are all listed on the FDA's approved raw material list. However this does not make the rubber FDA Approved. The terminology is typically Compliant once the material is cured and cleaned properly before using. If you needed an item to be FDA approved, you would probably need to spend the necessary money to have the finished product tested and signed off on.

I think the best approach to handling any chemical is as Brian stated, treat them all as hazardous and take whatever precautions possible to protect yourself to unnecessary known and unknown risks to the best of your ability. Don't work in confined spaces, make sure there is adequate ventilation, avoid contact with the materials themselves, know the products you are working with and the hazards associated with them whether you are cleaning the shower or casting a pen blank.

From Alumilite's standpoint, we don't recommend our resins to be used for questionable applications where food contact, pregnancy, children, or even mouth contact is possible due to the potential hazards created from human error and possible unforeseen hazards not known to us or anyone at this time. We simply will not risk the possibility of future issues by simply not recommending our products for questionable applications.

Mike
Alumilite
800 447-9344
 
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