Where do I go from here.

[tbfoto]

So, I made this blank last night. I want to be sure to drill it straight down the center but not quite sure how to go about it. I don't feel confident in simply holding it in a clamp and drilling down on it with the drill press. So can I drill slightly on each end then set this between centers to get it round then put in jaws and drill on the lathe? Does this sound ok? I've never tried it like that before.

 

[Lucky2]

I don't quite understand your question, seeing as how you've already drilled each piece. If you were to set each piece in the drill jig you have made, and were to drill each one the size of hole they need. You could then stack and glue them together, on the proper sized brass tube for the pen. I don't understand why you would drill each piece like you did, I would stack and glue them together and then drill through the blank.

Len

 

[tbfoto]

Well Len, I did it his way because I'm still learning and don't know any better. This is why I'm asking questions.


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[chartle]

Did you glue them all on to the wood dowel? If so I have no idea.

I'm in the process of making some blanks like this and I drill a 1/4" hole in each one and glue them up on a smooth bolt. I can then slip it onto my mandrel and turn it round. Now I can drill it to any size inside using my pen jaws on my chuck.

You could have also done as Len says and drilled them to the tube size and glued then directly to the tube.

 

[chartle]

You maybe able to save it if you can turn it round between centers but then you would still need to use a pen chuck to center your hole.

Or maybe then be able to drill it from both ends and hope they met in the middle.

I just think turning it round first gives you a fighting chance in being able to hold it straight.

ETA I misread your post and now see thats your plan.

 

[RangeRat]

I've not done any substantial segmenting, but I think I would proceed as you've suggested. I use the same method to turn my square blanks to round before drilling on the lathe and it works great.

 

[chartle]

Well Len, I did it his way because I'm still learning and don't know any better. This is why I'm asking questions.


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I think I have a bin of my mad scientist failures somewhere. Some are still in my head.

This is a start to my latest. Its already drilled for a sierra. I glued it together on a 3/8th inch bolt wrapped in a little masking tape.

 

[magpens]

Tom,
I think your own suggestion is the best way to proceed.
Once you have it round in this way, you should be able to drill it accurately on the lathe,
provided your lathe jaws open wide enough to grip the perimeter securely.

 

[Woodchipper]

Here is my setup for drilling blanks. Machinist's vise is from HF and bolted to DP table. Can be adjusted front to back if needed.

 

[mark james]

G'Day Tom,

I have made many (100+) segmented blanks with the method you have displayed: 4 corner brick, sliced, drilled in the center, stacked on a dowel. Most have turned out nice, some not so nice.

Most of my errors I suspect was in the slicing process.

To test if the final "stack" is good - mark/indent the ends in the center of the dowel. Then use steb centers/equivalent and turn the glued-up blanks round. If while the blank is turning the lines on the segments are "tight", then you are good. If any "waver", then there probably will be an issue. I'll post a picture.

I also suggest to use hardwood dowels as opposed to bamboo (don't use chinese take out/grocery store, etc... Yea, don't ask!). The hardwood will give a truer center, the bamboo will waver.

If your "lines" are decent, then you can proceed to drill. I prefer for real precision to use a collet chuck and drill on the lathe. A pen jaws on the lathe is second best. An accurate drill press with good blank press is also fine if tuned - up correctly. All will work with varying degrees of accuracy.

After you get the hang of this, try different dimensions for the 4 corner stack. Many cool variables. Be patient, this is workable. Oh... Have FUN!

 

[mark james]

Tight lines

Check if the segment lines are tight while turning.

 

[jttheclockman]

What I would have done is drilled for the tube when you had the blank made as a whole before you started slicing. I would have marked your centers on both ends. I would have used a spur center in the head stock and live center in the tail stock and turned it round.I would have then placed in a collet chuck of appropriate size and then drilled for whatever tube size needed. If the blank is long enough for a top and bottom and that is your intention, then I would drill the smaller tube hole first. I then would cut my slices on a tablesaw with an accurate miter sled. What is left over I now repeat with a larger bit to drill out the cap end.

I use this method all the time because it takes away the many many chances of drill movement in every slice you make. The biggest key to this method is to turn the blank true round and that is not hard to do at all. Use a straight edge when you get close to your dimension and check for hills and valleys. You do need to make the blank long enough to accommodate for blade kerf which you have to no matter what way you do this.

What you did now is created another chance for the drill bit to wander as it follows grain lines. But if you drill slow enough you should get there. Good luck.

 

[BSea]

Here's a method that I've used a few times with segmented blanks (even though he uses it to drill antler). It really works for drilling down the center. An even better way would be to pre-drill with a stubby bit 1st.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxQOGL3A6Xk

 

[Dehn0045]

I'd use a belt sander and get it closer to round. Then mount on the lathe and turn round and drill on the lathe.

 

[dogcatcher]

When I stacked the parts on a dowel, I would add a sacrificial block on both ends. Both blocks would be about an inch long and I would only glue the dowel in about half way. The 1/4" hole on both ends would be my guide points for the live center end and the drive center end. I would turn between centers to 3/4" diameter. Then place blank in my collet chuck and part off the sacrificial blocks, then drill for the brass tube.

Like said above, use quality dowels, I used 1/4" maple. At one time I also had a driver made for the headstock that was a 1/4" steel rod that had drill stop collar on it the turn between centers. On the driving end I cross hatched the end of the rod so that it dug into the 1/4" wood dowel. This was also used in my collet chuck.

 

[jttheclockman]

Not to discourage the last 2 methods but the key factor is you are dealing with a distinct design that needs to be dead center and not off a little bit because it will show in the final assembly. Tough to do with either one of those methods. In my opinion. I will add that part so do not take offense. Post #13 and #14

 

[Dehn0045]

Not to discourage the last 2 methods but the key factor is you are dealing with a distinct design that needs to be dead center and not off a little bit because it will show in the final assembly. Tough to do with either one of those methods. In my opinion. I will add that part so do not take offense. Post #13 and #14

No offense taken on my part JT. After reading your response, I read through the OP and other responses in more detail to see if there was something I missed (happens more often than I like to admit). I think Mark posted a more detailed description of what I was trying to convey. The only thing that I would add to Mark's is that I would be too nervous to turn the blank as-is, that's why I suggested getting it closer to round with the 80 grit chisel. Then mount between spur/live and turn round. I normally drill using a 4-jaw chuck in the headstock (pin jaws) and Jacobs in the tailstock. My results are usually quite good, but a collet chuck is probably even better. Given that the blank is already made, I think that this method will yield the best possible outcome. For the next blank, your method looks like a winner.

 

[jttheclockman]

Not to discourage the last 2 methods but the key factor is you are dealing with a distinct design that needs to be dead center and not off a little bit because it will show in the final assembly. Tough to do with either one of those methods. In my opinion. I will add that part so do not take offense. Post #13 and #14

No offense taken on my part JT. After reading your response, I read through the OP and other responses in more detail to see if there was something I missed (happens more often than I like to admit). I think Mark posted a more detailed description of what I was trying to convey. The only thing that I would add to Mark's is that I would be too nervous to turn the blank as-is, that's why I suggested getting it closer to round with the 80 grit chisel. Then mount between spur/live and turn round. I normally drill using a 4-jaw chuck in the headstock (pin jaws) and Jacobs in the tailstock. My results are usually quite good, but a collet chuck is probably even better. Given that the blank is already made, I think that this method will yield the best possible outcome. For the next blank, your method looks like a winner.

Sam I understand what you are saying as long as you establish the center marks before you sand the edges down because it would be tougher to measure. Have no problem hitting with a disc sander or belt sander but for me I make things round using a lathe. There is alot of sharp edges on that blank. With my method there are 4 and they go away real quick when turned down using a roughing gouge or any tool of choice. Many ways to get there as they say. What works best for you is the best way.

 

[Dehn0045]

The dowel is in the center, so the center of the dowel is the center, no?

 

[jttheclockman]

The dowel is in the center, so the center of the dowel is the center, no?

I guess so if you drilled all dowel holes the same. Drilling down the center of a dowel is not an easy task. As I said if it works then all is good. The OP got some good suggestions and hopefully he continues developing his own methods and gets really involved with segmenting. Always like reading people's methods and techniques as they go through the learning curves of this hobby.

 

[tbfoto]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I will proceed with caution and continue to document my progress or lack there of. I really like the looks of segmenting but have not spent enough time learning the small details.


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[leehljp]

I'm Late getting into this but here is what I would consider if I were already at the stage you are in at this point:

(This assumes you have a chuck or two and TBC drives)

Wrap the blank fairly tight with gauze several layers and CA it. This will hold it together. Put it between centers in the middle of the dowel on each end. Carefully turn about 1/4 inch on each end - down to the point it round all the way around. Once done, chuck it barely snug and turn. Take small bites, a little at a time. Trying to get done quickly on segments like this is deadly to newbies and oldies alike. Don't force it. Let the tool do the cutting. If it takes an hour or two, so what. When you get through, you will be happy.

Once it it round, wrap it in gauze again and CA the heck out of it. THEN Drill the center. Add your tube and then turn the gauze off and down to size, carefully.

 

[chartle]

To add to the post above. since you are turning this from the center, not holding it on the outside with something like a pen chuck, I would knock off all those corners and most of the blank on a what ever power sander you have.

You have 68 corners and 68 glue joints just waiting to catch on your tool.

 

[More4dan]

I think I would also first drill with a smaller bit that would fit within the dowel and then expand the hole with a larger bit.


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[BSea]

Not to discourage the last 2 methods but the key factor is you are dealing with a distinct design that needs to be dead center and not off a little bit because it will show in the final assembly. Tough to do with either one of those methods. In my opinion. I will add that part so do not take offense. Post #13 and #14

I'll also add that I didn't take offense. However, the method shown in the video has worked well for me. Even better than drilling using a collet chuck. At least the few times I've done it, it worked.
when I 1st saw the video (posted in this forum years ago), I was trying to drill some antler where I wanted some of the bark showing. And I tried a few times just eyeballing, and drilling on a drill press with limited success. Using the method described in the video made it easier with much better results. Now that is drilling a blank that is not round or straight.

I've also used this method when I had to be dead on. Here's a segmented pen I did with aluminum, afzelia xylay, and desert ironwood burl. I was really nervous about drilling it because I knew it would look bad if it wasn't near perfect. I can't remember for sure, but I'm almost positive that I rounded the blank, then wrapped the blank with some rubber bands, then applied CA to the rubber bands to make sure they didn't stretch when drilling.




View in Gallery

Is it the best option? I don't know since I haven't done enough of these to know for sure. I think I might try doing another like this soon to see if I can duplicate the results.

 

[jttheclockman]

Not to discourage the last 2 methods but the key factor is you are dealing with a distinct design that needs to be dead center and not off a little bit because it will show in the final assembly. Tough to do with either one of those methods. In my opinion. I will add that part so do not take offense. Post #13 and #14

I'll also add that I didn't take offense. However, the method shown in the video has worked well for me. Even better than drilling using a collet chuck. At least the few times I've done it, it worked.
when I 1st saw the video (posted in this forum years ago), I was trying to drill some antler where I wanted some of the bark showing. And I tried a few times just eyeballing, and drilling on a drill press with limited success. Using the method described in the video made it easier with much better results. Now that is drilling a blank that is not round or straight.

I've also used this method when I had to be dead on. Here's a segmented pen I did with aluminum, afzelia xylay, and desert ironwood burl. I was really nervous about drilling it because I knew it would look bad if it wasn't near perfect. I can't remember for sure, but I'm almost positive that I rounded the blank, then wrapped the blank with some rubber bands, then applied CA to the rubber bands to make sure they didn't stretch when drilling.




View in Gallery

Is it the best option? I don't know since I haven't done enough of these to know for sure. I think I might try doing another like this soon to see if I can duplicate the results.

Segmenting does raise the pucker factor some for sure. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[tbfoto]

Well, I finished it today. I learned a lot. I might have learned more "what not to do" than "how to do" however it is all part of the learning curve. Results are ok. Of course I see ALL the mistakes in it but to most people they may not. I don't sell pens so no worry of a unhappy customer. I started drilling down the center with a very small drill bit and increased sizes about 8-10 times until I got to the tube size. Not the best way to do it but it saved this blank and I got a finished pen. After getting the tube glued in I added end caps, then mounted it on the mandrel and used my belt sander to gently knock off the edges before mounting it on the lathe. Then very slowly shaved it down with a very sharp gouge. Added 8 coats of thin ca and finished off with polish. Put it on a Wallstreet II kit from Woodcraft. Time to move on to the next project.

 

[magpens]

I think you have achieved a very attractive result ... the pen is lovely !!! .. Congrats !!!!

 

[mark james]

Tom, that turned out great. Much better than my first attempts at this style. These are actually very tricky to get aligned. And yes, you will see all the minor flaws, but many others will not.

I actually don't sand the corners down. Turning one of these looks daunting the first time, but I also have had great success with my roughing gouge, and have never had one explode. I have assisted Magicbob at several tool shows where he is selling his "Magical Skew." I stick one of these on the lathe and those watching who are not familiar with woodturning get very wide eyes. Gentle cuts, and all is well. Kind of fun - the more jagged the better reaction. At the shows, I used the Magical skew (carbide on an angle for a shear cut), again light cuts and have fun.

In the future when you have a really bad aligned blank that will be tossed - go ahead and drill it, mount in on your mandrel, or as I do steb centers, and have a go at it with your gouge. You will quickly gain a lot of confidence in your tool control. Looks much worse than it is.

And I love the end caps! A simple element, but gives a nice visual look.

Well done. Many lessons learned.

 

[Jim15]

Great work.

 

[jttheclockman]

Looks good to me and your are now both the student and the teacher

 

[MDWine]

. . . really like the looks of segmenting but have not spent enough time learning the small details . . .

Best teacher there is... trial and error.
Just keep working on them, and you'll develop your own method...

that's the fun in it!