when stabilizing with cactus juice...should I wait for every bubble to stop??

[Marker]

How picky should I be about waiting for the bubble to stop, when stabilizing blanks with cactus juice???

Due to the nice weather, I decided to give my new juice proof chamber a try that I bought from Curtis....thank you Curtis!!!

I have had it under vacuum for over 6 hours, and the bubble still are coming.. They have not seem to slow down much at all for the last 4 hours.

this chamber is filled about 30" high with spalted blanks....I realize that this is a lot of blanks, and therefore it will take much longer to get the bubbles to stop.

But do I really need to get every single bubble out???? there is no real big bubbles coming out, just very small bubbles...it has been this way for like 4 hours.

How long would you recommend me keeping this under vacuum??? until morning??? 24 hours??? or until they totally stop???


Thanks

 

[JD Combs Sr]

Wow that looks like a major tower of blanks. I am guessing but based on my experience with stabilizing 5-6 blanks at a time I would say that overnight would not be out of line. However, I think if it were mine I would double check that there is no leak in the base of the "tank". I am sure that Curtis did an excellent job on the tank but something that big getting bounced around in shipping could put some major stress on seal points. Take a close look at the bottom and the seals down there with the vacuum on to make sure some of the bubbles are not coming from around the bottom. But like i said that much would is going to generate a lot of bubbles for a long time. BTW how my inches of hg vacuum are you pulling with just the small bubbles.

 

[robutacion]

How picky should I be about waiting for the bubble to stop, when stabilizing blanks with cactus juice???

Due to the nice weather, I decided to give my new juice proof chamber a try that I bought from Curtis....thank you Curtis!!!

I have had it under vacuum for over 6 hours, and the bubble still are coming.. They have not seem to slow down much at all for the last 4 hours.

this chamber is filled about 30" high with spalted blanks....I realize that this is a lot of blanks, and therefore it will take much longer to get the bubbles to stop.

But do I really need to get every single bubble out???? there is no real big bubbles coming out, just very small bubbles...it has been this way for like 4 hours.

How long would you recommend me keeping this under vacuum??? until morning??? 24 hours??? or until they totally stop???


Thanks

Well, the answer is yes and no...!

Just a few points to consider,

* - Possible air leak, (the bubbles will never stop...!)

* - The more blanks/volume to pull full vacuum from, the longer it will take.

* - What was the dryness (MC%) condition when the blanks were put under stabilization...???, spalted wood couldn't possible be green but can be wet, there is, have some moisture inside and that will cause extra bubbles and will take longer and can compromise the full penetration of the Juice so, a good habit to have is to put the blanks you want to stabilize, in an oven at about 90° Celsius for about a couple of hours.

Allow the wood to slowly cool down in the oven and transfer to the stabilization chambers as soon as you can feel little heat on the blanks, this will protect the blanks from sucking any air moisture. Doing the oven thin (drying) the day before you want to stabilize, may be a small benefit but, is not what you should do, if you leave in an cold and wet environment, the chances are, the moisture will get into the wood again so, do it just before you are ready to stabilize...!

Remember, a few small bubbles here and there is OK, just make sure you leave the blanks on the tube with the juice, for a few hours after you turn the pump off. Letting them drain properly for a few hours also (I like to let them drain overnight...!), will save you some juice and some mess, wrapping the blanks immediately after they come from the juice, will only be a waste of juice as the excess juice will have nowhere to go when wrapped in foil so, it gets expelled from the wood when the juice is starting to set (get hot), it will stay attached to the blanks surface and when you unwrap them, you endup with a big mess of cooked/dry juice stuck to the blanks surface, everywhere. That can take some effort to clean...!

This is all I can think of, at the moment...!

Best of luck,

Cheers
George

 

[Marker]

I put this on vacuum today for 7 hours. There are still some small bubbles coming up. I am pulling at least 30" hg of vacuum....it looks as if it could be even more then that because the needle on the gage is buried.

I have...ash, cherry, Hickory, red oak, and hard & soft maple in here...

I took a good look at the blanks, and they all seem to be putting off very small bubbles... I am thinking that the bubbles are collecting other small bubbles as they go up to the top (over 36") ...and therefore it looks as if large bubbles are coming up...

Also there are some big pieces in here...some over 12" long, and some 2"-3" square....it must just take a lot longer for the vacuum to penetrate the larger pieces.

Do you think that buying a larger vacuum pump would help???? The pump that I have right now is 6cfm...do you think that it would help if I were to buy a pump rated at 12cfm?????

Thanks

 

[Silverado]

Hello Mark

A higher CFM vacumn pump won't make any difference. I am stabilizing about 14 blanks at a time because my tube is only 14'' tall. I have been drawing about 29 hg vacumn for about 5 hours and still get tiny little bubbles. I have run about 6 batches now and have never got completely
rid of all the bubbles. From what I understand if your wood is 100% dry you
have a better chance to totally get rid of all bubbles. A have turned several
pieces and I am getting full penetration of juice in the blanks.
Hope this helps.
I have 2 more gallons that will be delivered on Monday:biggrin:

Regards,
Tim

 

[MesquiteMan]

Mark,

A larger pump WILL NOT do you a single bit of good and will be absolutely a waste of money. Make sure your blanks are 100% dry as in, place them in a toaster oven at 215° F for at least 24 hours to make sure they are oven dry. Then place them in a ziploc bag IMMEDIATELY after removing from the oven. Seal the bag and let them cool down. A hot, super dry piece of wood will begin picking up moisture as soon as it begins to cool down. Keeping it in the bag will prevent this.

Once cool, stabilize as normal and the bubbles should stop. I am guessed you are seeing tiny champagne bubbles. If so, this is certainly moisture in the wood boiling out under full vacuum. I would not get too wound up about them, though, and would stop once you get as much out as you can in a reasonable amount of time.

The absolute best results will be obtained with wood at 0% moisture and no bubbles but honestly, I am not sure you can quantify the difference when you are as close as you are now. Run with it and don't look back!

Now, just a little bit of correction/education for you...you are NOT pulling a 30" or higher vacuum unless you are below sea level or have a super high pressure weather system on top of you. The maximum theoretical vacuum at sea level is 29.92" Hg on a standard atmospheric day. The higher above sea level you go, the lower your vacuum is since there is less air to begin with. Remember, vacuum gauges, especially $15 vacuum gauges, have some inaccuracy in them. Also, did you cut the rubber nipple on the top of the gauge? If not, do that and your vacuum reading will be different.

Give me a call if you want to discuss thing in more detail. I am always happy to talk with folks and help any way I can.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Oh yeah, cool pics btw! Those are some of the first pics I have seen with my NoFloat plate actually in use up close!

 

[DaddyO]

I recently took Curtis' advice: pre-cooked and bought a moisture meter and have been getting much better results.

Oh and in my opinion, the meters are useless and i go by the bubbles.

I also leave my vac pump on while stabilizing, i.e. do not turn it off even if your chamber does hold the vacuum.

 

[Monty]

I recently took Curtis' advice: pre-cooked and bought a moisture meter and have been getting much better results.

Oh and in my opinion, the meters are useless and i go by the bubbles.

I also leave my vac pump on while stabilizing, i.e. do not turn it off even if your chamber does hold the vacuum.

Mark,
Actually, the best stabilization results after you release the vacuum (after all the bubbles stop). This lets the juice into the wood to the voids where the air came from. I usually let my wood soak in the Juice for at least as long as I pulled the vacuum to as long as several days if I'm dying the wood.