What am I doing wrong?

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RGVPens

RGVPens

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Joined
Oct 4, 2021
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408
Location
Mission TX
I just finished a Gatsby, and it won't go in far enough! One picture is of it out and the other in. You can feel it at both stopping points. I took it apart and checked that the refill was seated and not on the edge of something.

Any ideas? I've done a couple of Sierras and no problem...first Gatsby.
 

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1) I would check if you inserted the transmission a little too far.

2) Check barrel length and make sure you did not trim too much when squaring the blank.

My guess would be transmission and you need to push in or pull out a hair. I can't remember which side it inserts from.
 
hooked said:
1) I would check if you inserted the transmission a little too far.

2) Check barrel length and make sure you did not trim too much when squaring the blank.

My guess would be transmission and you need to push in or pull out a hair. I can't remember which side it inserts from.
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I agree here. The transmission on this style of kit is screwed into the nib end, and then inserted through the blank into the cap. Make sure it seats far enough. If you trimmed too much off, you might need to disassemble and turn another blank of at least the minimum required length.

Also, just as another thought, as sometimes I do this myself: Make sure you added the spring to the refill. If the spring is not there, there is nothing to push the refill back into the pen.
 
This is a Gatsby twist. .

The most likely cause is the barrel being too short. ( Also check there is no undesired crap inside the transmission where refill goes in. )

If you have calipers, you should be able . . . with care . . . to measure the length of the barrel. . .

It should be very close to 2.22" long. . . If it is less than 2.20" it's too short.

The instruction sheet shows the length of the barrel as 2 7/32" which is 2.219"


The Gatsby is not the same as the Sierra. . The Sierra is much more "forgiving" on the barrel length as seen by the internal structure on its instruction sheet from Berea shown here . . .

 
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I have had a few that looked like that where the cartridge just didn't slide up into the transmission properly. I don't suppose you got that lucky with this one?
 
magpens said:
This is a Gatsby twist. .

The most likely cause is the barrel being too short. ( Also check there is no undesired crap inside the transmission where refill goes in. )

If you have calipers, you should be able . . . with care . . . to measure the length of the barrel. . .

It should be very close to 2.22" long. . . If it is less than 2.20" it's too short.

The instruction sheet shows the length of the barrel as 2 7/32" which is 2.219"


The Gatsby is not the same as the Sierra. . The Sierra is much more "forgiving" on the barrel length as seen by the internal structure on its instruction sheet from Berea shown here . . .

Click to expand...
Thanks Mal! The barrel has to be the problem. I measured approx.. 2.06 with digital caliper. I didn't punch out the clip assembly or the tip coupler but got pretty close. Then I set it to the 2.2 you mentioned and held it up...way different. I don't know how I took that much off with a squaring jig on the sanding wheel.

I think I'll try to punch out the clip and coupler. I have spare Gatsby barrels, so I'll try again and reassemble.

Thanks again for the measurements, I'll watch them on the next one.
 
RGVPens said:
I don't know how I took that much off with a squaring jig on the sanding wheel.
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It might just be a defect in the kit rather than you sanding too much off. I had one with the wrong size tube in it. Probably wouldn't have noticed it if I had not been making several of the same kit and laid the tubes next to each other. Then again, I've sanded them too much, too. Anyway, there's an excuse you can use. ;)
 
Well...that was easy! Glad I got the punch set and soft grip locking pliers!! Something told me they might come in handy.

The barrel itself measures 2.0745...too short. Grab another tube and try again!
 
sorcerertd said:
It might just be a defect in the kit rather than you sanding too much off. I had one with the wrong size tube in it. Probably wouldn't have noticed it if I had not been making several of the same kit and laid the tubes next to each other. Then again, I've sanded them too much, too. Anyway, there's an excuse you can use. ;)
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That could be...now that I know I'll check the tube before I start.
 
RGVPens said:
Thanks Mal! The barrel has to be the problem. I measured approx.. 2.06 with digital caliper. I didn't punch out the clip assembly or the tip coupler but got pretty close. Then I set it to the 2.2 you mentioned and held it up...way different. I don't know how I took that much off with a squaring jig on the sanding wheel.

I think I'll try to punch out the clip and coupler. I have spare Gatsby barrels, so I'll try again and reassemble.

Thanks again for the measurements, I'll watch them on the next one.
Click to expand...
Some kits are just more forgiving than others. I've been there more than once.
 
If it was me, before I use another tube and take the time to glue it, shave it square and turn it to size, I'd take on the challenge of extending the already made barrel to take the shortened length. You got nothing to lose except your time and you could make a very unique looking pen. You can place the extension any where in the length and use any thing you have handy like a different wood, a resin based product, just let your imagination go wild.
 
Mortalis said:
If it was me, before I use another tube and take the time to glue it, shave it square and turn it to size, I'd take on the challenge of extending the already made barrel to take the shortened length. You got nothing to lose except your time and you could make a very unique looking pen. You can place the extension any where in the length and use any thing you have handy like a different wood, a resin based product, just let your imagination go wild.
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I kept the barrel and may try that when I get some experience, that was my third pen.
The first thought is the ring in the middle of a Slimline type pen to extend it. Can you buy individual parts for most common pens?
 
I have been here as well. Sometimes, in order to not lose the tube, I have turned it down to the brass, removing all blank material and glue, re-scuff the tube, and load up a fresh blank. It's not the cost of the tube that drives this - it's the having to order the tube, and wait for it in the mail. If I have that size tube already in my stash, then I toss the ruined blank and start fresh. (EDIT: Of course, this would not help if the tube was too short :confused:)
 
Blank was trimmed a bit short. The twist might be able to to be adjusted ( shortened) using a drill bit by hand. Use the bit to reduce the white plastic inside the twist. Hard to explain. Will show visuals if you want to see or we can talk. Welcome to school. This is lesson # X.

Enough is enough.

I mastered the art of trimming too short. 2 pens with tip protruding. I cannot trim the refill to adjust. Won’t do that. A flat top stone or burr will reduce the plastic slider enough to let the refill fully retract. I used a Dremel. After test fitting clean the twist with q tip. I applied a...
www.penturners.org
 
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I made many Gatsby Grande (and a few standard Gatsbys (all PSI, )) and encountered similar issues . In my cases, there was either a burr in the cone section and/or the top of the refill getting caught under the transmission.
 
These generalizations may help:

Pen tips are very very very touchy regarding dimensions. Very small differences in how you make the pen may result in the tip too short or too long. If too long, the tip may not retract all the way, too. A difference of 1/32 inch is enough to make the pen tip look, feel, and operate right or wrong. That's about 1/4 of the extended pen tip length.

-> Basically, you must learn to get it exactly right. It may take a few failures to figure it out and get it dialed in, but it is not that difficult to learn.

In my opinion, there are two types of pen kit:
  • Some pen kits are forgiving.
    • Some pen kits give you headroom space under the cap. The Sierra and Manhattan pen kits are designed so the pen tip is exactly right. The top part merely rotates the mechanism. If the turned pen blank is slightly short, there is enough air space under the cap that it doesn't matter.
    • Some pen kits let you adjust the pen tip extension during assembly. With Slimline type pen kits, you assemble the transmission (pen mechanism) deliberately short, test the pen tip, remove the refill, push the transmission a little further, test again, remove the refill, push further, test again ... until it is perfect. Unless you accidentally push too far, it is hard to mess that up. It is one reason why I recommend Slimlines for beginners.
  • Some pen kits are NOT forgiving.
    • The length(s) of your turned blank(s) determine how far the pen tip sticks out in the assembled pen.
    • If the blanks are too long, then the pen tip will be short, if it sticks out at all. That can happen if you fail to mill all the wood up to the edges of the pen tube inside.
    • If the blanks are too short, the pen tip will extend too far, and may not retract all the way. That can happen if you sand or trim anyof the pen tube material while milling (squaring) the blank. I think that this is what happened to @RGVPens.
      • Think about it - if you have a two-tube pen and you mill 1/128 inch off each end of the two pen tubes (four milling operations) - that adds up to 1/32 inch, enough to spoil the pen tip look and operation.
      • A scrape of the tube edge from dull to shiny is as much as can be tolerated, no more.
    • The brass tubes that come with pen kits should be exactly right. You can and should check them against the specs that usually appear on the instruction sheets. Measure the tube(s) with calipers when you first open the kit. I do. After you mill the blanks to square them up, check them with calipers to make sure that they are still correct and you have not accidentally milled off any of the pen tube before continuing. If something is amiss, that's a good time to find out.
You will have some failures in the beginning, and all you can do is try to learn what mistake(s) you made and what you can do differently in the future. My first five pens were failures. If they are functional as pens, I donate the failures and substandard pens to the local public library. They need and appreciate any pens they get.

I keep notes as I make pens, and transfer them to spreadsheet when I am done. Others here do similar things. See this thread:
https://www.penturners.org/threads/documents-for-tracking-pen-making-for-gifts-etc.159678/
 
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