Well that didn't work out

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qquake

qquake

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Joined
Feb 8, 2004
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This was a Goonies blank from Turners Warehouse. It was very hard to turn, felt like end grain. I'm guessing it's douglas fir. Looks like maybe I didn't have enough epoxy in it. It's for a Dennis pen, and one end is slightly smaller. Everything was going well, until I started shaping. That's when things went terribly, horribly wrong. I was able to get two blanks from the piece of wood, so I'll try again. I used stronger 30 minute epoxy on the second piece, and a lot more of it. Maybe I'll use a sandpaper skew for shaping this time.
 

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It does look like the glue did not cover the tube completely. That could be that the the wood soaked it up (unlikely but possible) or when you inserted the tube you ran out of epoxy as you got the end of the blank. I usually will wet the inside of the blank from both ends with glue as well as on the tube, twisting the tube as I inster it. That way I am confident I have enough glue.
From a bowl turner's point of view it looks like you were trying to cut unsupported grain when turning from the headstock to the tail stock. This can be helped by using some clear shellac on the blank as you turn it. The shellac will stiffen the fibers so they can be cut "against the grain". You also might want to sharpen your tool more often while cutting this blank.
Good luck!
 
Mortalis said:
It does look like the glue did not cover the tube completely. That could be that the the wood soaked it up (unlikely but possible) or when you inserted the tube you ran out of epoxy as you got the end of the blank. I usually will wet the inside of the blank from both ends with glue as well as on the tube, twisting the tube as I inster it. That way I am confident I have enough glue.
From a bowl turner's point of view it looks like you were trying to cut unsupported grain when turning from the headstock to the tail stock. This can be helped by using some clear shellac on the blank as you turn it. The shellac will stiffen the fibers so they can be cut "against the grain". You also might want to sharpen your tool more often while cutting this blank.
Good luck!
Click to expand...
As for sharpening the chisel, I was using a new radiused carbide cutter, held at an angle to get a shearing cut. I do think I didn't use enough epoxy with the first one.
 

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Well damn. The second one blew out too, in spite of all my precautions. More 30 minute epoxy, fresh edge on the carbide cutter, held at more of an angle so it hopefully wouldn't catch. I was taking super light cuts, and it still blew. I don't know if soaking it with CA would have helped or not. Whatever kind of wood this is, I'm thinking it needs to be stabilized. You can see the epoxy on the tube and inside the broken off piece, so I'm confident I got enough in the blank.
 

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All that end grain and then trying to turn most of it away. I don't think they should even be selling a blank like that. Hardwoods you might get away with it, if you're careful. Pine, in my opinion, you don't even have a chance.
 
Anybody ever have a bushing get stuck in a tube? It would rotate, but I couldn't pull it out. I had to drive it out with a transfer punch. No, I didn't use CA on it.
 

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Drilling a blank like that tends to give an uneven hole , requiring more glue to fill the gaps . Gorilla glue gives more support while turning in those cases . Applications of thin CA might have helped . Stabilizing resinous woods can be problematic , so don`t know how much help it would have given . Sandpaper is definitely the surest way of getting the desired result , which would have been VERY nice . Douglas fir , Eastern larch , red pine ???
 
I don't know if I want to spend another $30 to try again and likely have the same results. I am quite disappointed, though. I emailed Turners Warehouse, I'll see what they have to say.
 
I have turned numerous cross-cut pine blanks—from Antique Heart Pine to loblolly to pitch pine.
Here's one:

full


This blank is from a bunch of reclaimed AHP I was given from a house near mine. The timbers were milled about 1870 when Mr. Mixon's grandfather "got back from the war." The trees were probably natural growth from 75-100 years prior, if not older. They were milled on site and used to build their original home.

The key to success, for me, has been drilling slowly, letting the blanks rest a few days to get back to equilibrium, and then constant soaking in CA while turning with a sharp skew.
It's not always 100% successful—I've blown some out. They're as fragile as can be.
In my opinion—They're worth the effort.
 
Looking at the picture of the blowout I can see a gap under the wood at the edge of the hole. Porous wood is bad about sucking up the glue and not sticking to the tube. I would have a devil of a time with that turning pine cone cores. I had to thouroughly soak the inside of the hole with thin CA to seal and strengthen it and run the drill back through after cure to open it back up. If doing the final glue with CA afterwards beware this can make the setup faster and can stick you tube partway in if you dawdle. Ive also wicked thin CA in between the tube and the wood afterwards if it looked like there was any sign of a gap. Scrape the inner tube out with a sharp exacto after.
 
Sorry to hear about the troubles. It does look like a blank with engrain on two sides...I suspect that allowed a lot of glue to soak in. Have you considered using gorilla glue (the foaming kind)? I keep some of that around, in the event that I accidentally miss-drill a blank or the like (couple occasions, I've forgotten to change the bit!!)
 
jrista said:
Sorry to hear about the troubles. It does look like a blank with engrain on two sides...I suspect that allowed a lot of glue to soak in. Have you considered using gorilla glue (the foaming kind)? I keep some of that around, in the event that I accidentally miss-drill a blank or the like (couple occasions, I've forgotten to change the bit!!)
Click to expand...
I tried polyurethane glue exactly once, and hated it. All it did was make a big mess.
 
qquake said:
I have another piece of the Goonies wood coming. Any advice for turning it other than flooding it often with thin CA?
Click to expand...
I've had similar troubles turning Bog Oak, which is very soft and cracks along the grain very easily.

I've had success by turning with nothing other than a very sharp roughing gouge. Actually, I spent enough time using the roughing gouge with Bog Oak, that it is the only tool I generally use these days when turning wood pen blanks. A good, sharp tool cuts through the wood effortlessly, and I haven't had any soft or punky woods crack or explode on me since. I did try sheer scraping...but, I feel there is more force involved with that, than for lack of a better way to put it "real" cutting of the wood with a gouge. I know sheer scraping is also a cut (or mostly so), but its not quite the same kind of cut, and I think it just involves more force.
 
qquake said:
How much better are the negative rake cutters? I thought I had tried one at some point, but I can't find it.
Click to expand...
For wood that likes to crack, I don't think a negative rake cutter is any better than sheer cutting. Light cuts with a sharp gouge seem to be the best way to turn down such blanks in my experience.

I don't really use negative rake cutters like the EWT tools on wood much. They tear out the fibers too much. I LOVE them for resins, they do exceptionally well with resins, but for wood, I guess I've become a "traditionalist" and prefer to cut my wood with a gouge.
 
qquake said:
Well damn. The second one blew out too, in spite of all my precautions. More 30 minute epoxy, fresh edge on the carbide cutter, held at more of an angle so it hopefully wouldn't catch. I was taking super light cuts, and it still blew. I don't know if soaking it with CA would have helped or not. Whatever kind of wood this is, I'm thinking it needs to be stabilized. You can see the epoxy on the tube and inside the broken off piece, so I'm confident I got enough in the blank.
Click to expand...

Jim; I would make the same suggestion. Stabilize the wood blank.
 
qquake said:
According to the instructions, it can take several days to cure. Unless I want to put it in the oven at 150 degrees.

www.systemthree.com

T-88

T-88 is a high-performance, non-brittle, two-part epoxy adhesive designed to give superior results under adverse conditions.
www.systemthree.com www.systemthree.com

Click to expand...

Hmm, where did you find that?

At 77°F, T-88 will harden in 6-8 hours and will reach functional strength in 24 hours. T-88 has been specifically formulated to cure as low as 35°F without reduction in strength; this cure will require approximately one week. At 150°F, T-88 will set within 30 minutes and develop maximum bond strength and impact resistance after 2 hours. If excessive flow-out occurs, allow 2-4 hours at room temperature before heat cure.
Click to expand...
 
qquake said:
It says at 35 degrees it takes a week. My house is normally in the low 60's, and the garage is even colder. So I figured a few days unless I put it in the oven.
Click to expand...
Ah. Well, I often turn on the fireplace (gas fireplace in my case, but woodburning would work as well). I warm up my epoxies next to that, then place glued blanks near it as well. I did some research on epoxy cross-linking recently, and even though epoxies CAN cure at lower temps, their cross-link density tends to be lower and thus weaker. I never quite understood the "warm your molds, warm your blanks" mantra when it came to using epoxies (pours or glues), but now that I understand the need for high flow of the epoxy to ensure that it all cross-links properly, I fully understand the temperature thing.

I know T-88 says it can cure at 35, but I think since your goal is a truly STRONG bond, you should heat things, and keep em warm while it cures. You'll get things cured in a couple hours that way. My glue bonds are much stronger these days than they were in the past when I left things out in the cold (45-50 in my case).
 
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