USPS has wasted my week!! shipping

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ed4copies

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
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Location
Racine, WI, USA.
A couple of you have placed orders and Red is waiting for his package from the Auction. They WILL go out today, regardless of difficulties. However, here is the explanation: Packages were ready Tuesday, small postal box inside flat rate envelope, tape across the flap to make sure it did not open. I have received this same configuration from AS, and shippers in Texas, CA and DC area. NO PROBLEM!!

When I took them to the post office Tuesday, they said, "Not flat rate, no tape allowed". Remembering the thread(s) on AS about such difficulties, I came into my office Wed and researched. Took appropriate paperwork from AS site and the Postal Service site to prove this was permissible, only to find the local USPS "branch manager" was vehement that no tape was allowed. So, spent Wed on the phone with Customer Service at USPS. I was assured, on Thurs, that my local branch WOULD take them NOW that the "boss" had spoken to them. Thurs afternoon, took to branch (again) and the branch manager was not there, so no one would take them-went to the other branch (Sturtevant, WI) only to find their "postmaster" was also gone and the same policy prevailed.

This morning Dawn reminded me that I lost site of the goal. WE are attempting to get product out to YOU!!! I also want to do so at the lowest possible cost. MY fight with the postal service will continue, but I have taken pictures of the packages, so the actual packages WILL go out today, regardless of cost (I will pay any difference).

Thanks for letting me vent and if BB sees this, I am OPEN to suggestions on how to get through the bull>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

(for reference, the policy is on the web at usps, mailers companion, July-Aug 2004: it pretty clearly states that what we are trying to do is completely within the policy of the usps!)
 
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BTW, JimGo, tell Uncle Potter my letter will be on its way and he has not yet responded to my e-mail, sent from his site yesterday!!!
 
Ed-
If they have any idea that you have a Priority Mail box inside (assuming you do) the flat rate envelope you will have a lot more trouble, as that is a real no no. The tape is fine as long as the envelope could be sealed without the use of tape. But keep in mind if you are using a Priority Mail box inside the envelope, then they aren't the only ones breaking the rules. Not trying to say their actions are correct, just trying to put things in perspective.

Drew
 
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />BTW, JimGo, tell Uncle Potter my letter will be on its way and he has not yet responded to my e-mail, sent from his site yesterday!!!
Click to expand...

I will, thanks Ed!

See, that's why I use PayPal and the USPS web site. I print off the postage and TAPE it to the box. If the tape for the label HAPPENS to also secure the flap, well, I can't be blamed for that. Plus, I just go in and toss the packages in a nifty little receptacle in the post office, so there's no one there to tell me "no" before it's received. I haven't had one returned yet (knock on wood) and I've probably shipped between 100 and 150 packages this way.
 
I have done a lot of USPS flat rate envelopes and never had any problems.

I never taped any of mine and always close it with their own envelope adhesive strip.

The most I've done is overlap the printed "Click and Print" label to the flap. The postal employees see it and I never had any problems either.

Not sure if the fact that they know me (being there almost every working day) helped [:D][;)].

BTW, I did mention to them about the ruling...and they acknowledged it but their advise is just not to tape it because other sorting facilities may reject it still. Better safe than sorry.
 
Ed don't give up---I fought for several months and finaly won. Of course they don't like seeing me come through the door but I really don't care. I am there to mail a package not make friends.
 
That USPS guy was obviously a jerk just trying to feel some authority. Priority tape can be used on flat rate envelopes.
However, I never put more than twelve blanks in an envelope as I have had some come back. I know AZ uses the inside box thing but I won't risk delays of it coming back. Plus the free USPS boxes are supposed to be used for mailing, not as packing material. I know it is widely done, but I won't. USPS does have a good web site and since they are actively competing for the shipping business, they will listen to and handle complaints. I would get on the site and (politely) zap the guy that gave you a hard time.
 
Originally posted by Gary Max
<br />I am there to mail a package not make friends.
Click to expand...

True, but it is always better when they really want to help you.

I think the USPS employees where I go are the best. They see me coming (through the glass window) and they pull my package ready for pick up already [:)].

Either they are really good or they just can't stand me and want me out ASAP LOL.

Actually, most of them know what I've been sending/receiving that one offered to collect some wood for me!!! [:0] I vote to befriend them [^]
 
My local PO is giving me a hassel about the same thing....but its mostly one lady and if I draw her I give my spot to the person behind me and go to the next window. I told one postal employee what was in the pkg when he asked and one of the items was a letter He added 39 cents to the flat rate fee...because of the letter...I did not even try to argue that one.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
 
Thanks to everyone!! The postal service says tape can be used. As far as putting THEIR box inside THEIR envelope, after it is inserted it IS mailed. The box printing says, in part, "...provided solely for use in sending Priority Mail..." Which is precisely what I am doing!

The flat rate env "mailers companion" article (July-Aug 2004) says in part, "A flat rate envelope does NOT have to remain flat to be eligible for the flat postage rate, and it is NOT limited to or specifically intended for such items as books, booklets, and magazines. (THEIR comma fault, Cav, I'm only copying!!!) The term "flat rate" means there is one postage rate charged for the piece, regardless of weight or destination".

This statement is NOT difficult to read and the interpretation of ALL postal regulations should be UNIFORM throughout the United States. Some "tin soldier" at MY postal station has NO right to HIS OWN interpretation.

(Dario, the personnel at the station have been very courteous until yesterday when they tried to tell me I was WRONG. I carefully informed them that the statement WAS open to SOME interpretation; however, as long as THEY CANNOT change their location's position, THAT is a better, more persuasive argument than trying to reiterpret the USPS document to read as they WISHED, rather than AS IT DOES!!!) Now, I want to talk with the person who has the authority to CHANGE their understanding. Back to my conversation with Mr. Potter and his testimony to congress that they are trying to be customer-centric to compete with UPS and FedEx. IF he allows local interpretation of the policies and procedures, he is lying to congress. (Which means, call my Senator-here's a laugh folks, that would be the next president of the United States {in HIS mind only} Russ Feingold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Just a short announcement:

All who are waiting for the end of this BS, your stuff went out today from Union Grove (a little farming community, not far from my home in rural Racine County). Drive 40 miles, avoid the problem.


The fight in Racine WILL continue!!!
 
Oh, JimGo, I HAVE gotten SEVERAL back. Even some that were FINE-in their opinion!

If it weighs over 16 oz, no matter what kind of envelope or postage, you need to come to the Post Office in person to mail it - they blame THIS INNOVATION in customer service on 9/11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
A note to our fellow members, their friends, an families - stay away from the post office(s) in/near Racine County, WI for the next several weeks. There may be one or more confrontations that, at the very least, could extend your wait for service.

Ed, for the record, I do NOT do criminal defense work!

[:D]
 
Jim,

While I become irate!!!! I am careful NOT to use inappropriate language, or attack them personally: Physically or verbally.

I DO point out their logic is innane ONLY when completely appropriate!

I know a good criminal atty in Chicago-he makes candles, we do the shows together!!
 
When I take a flat rate envelope, maybe a little stuffed, and lay it on the counter, the clerk will usually pull off a piece of tape and put it over the flap. I never have to ask. They have seen me put the flat rate box inside the envelope and never said a thing. The difference must be the personell.
 
Originally posted by smoky10
<br />When I take a flat rate envelope, maybe a little stuffed, and lay it on the counter, the clerk will usually pull off a piece of tape and put it over the flap. I never have to ask. They have seen me put the flat rate box inside the envelope and never said a thing. The difference must be the personell.
Click to expand...

PRECISELY THE POINT!!!

The United States Postal Service should have the same policies and procedures THROUGHOUT the United States-THAT'S my goal!!!
 
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />
I know a good criminal atty in Chicago-he makes candles, we do the shows together!!
Click to expand...

I'd worry about a criminal attorney who makes candles to sell at craft shows. Either he's a greedy SOB or poor example of a lawyer!
We've got a mayor here who was a defense attorney, I think he lost every case he handled.
 
Ed:
I was not worried about my package. I know that you still work, had a show and other commitments. Not all of us are retired! Thanks for the explanation, I agree it would be nice if all the employees at the post office were using the same guide lines and not putting their own 2 cents worth in the rules and regulations. That reminds me of different sailors, who I believe made up their own rules no matter what the rules and regulations stated.
Thanks again I appreciate all you have done.
 
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Oh, JimGo, I HAVE gotten SEVERAL back. Even some that were FINE-in their opinion!

If it weighs over 16 oz, no matter what kind of envelope or postage, you need to come to the Post Office in person to mail it - they blame THIS INNOVATION in customer service on 9/11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

That is simply not an accurate statement. Sorry. But your 'facts' are not fact. I regularly ship USPS priority envelopes and boxes from home that weight over 16 oz. A priority box filled with osage orange weighs considerably more than one pound. I do my labels from my computer and put the boxes on the porch. They are picked up with a smile.
 
whew. Mike told me about this thread and boy, after doing eBay for 8-9 years and mailing over 3000 packages, I have to sift thru my worst PO stories or I'd be highjacking the WHOLE thread! LOL

Forgive me when I don't give credit to the right person who said what-- but whomever said that it'd be nice if ALL of the PO's had the same guidelines are RIGHT ON THE MONEY!

I used a PO near Mike about 2 years ago and the guy literally PUNCHED his fist into my package to 'test the tape'. I was MORTIFIED and asked him what on earth did he think he was doing?? thats the answer I got. I asked him was EVERY person who handled it going to punch it like that?? He was ticked, I think, b/c I knew a bit more than HE did about some PO procedures- I was using a little used business insurance book (bfore they all went electronic) and had to tell him how to use it. I wans't ugly, I just told him nicely how it worked at my local PO. At another local satellite PO (where I DO refuse to go back), she weighed all my packages (I had used the Paypal labels)- several were UNDER weight- meaning I paid too much. ONE was 2 oz over. She refused to mail it. I told her I'd pay the difference. She said since it didn't have the rate postedon it, she couldn't. When I asked could she not look up the rate (mind you, there was NO one in line) from my zip to theirs- then figure the difference, after a LONG blank stare she actually said "YOu might have gotten a different rate, so I can't" I was in the middle of saying "aren't all postal regulations the same" and said well never mind LOL Dropped it off in the 24/7 box elsewhere with no problems at all. Geez.

But the one I'm most ticked over---and to my shame haven't done anything about it b/c I keep misplacing the envelope. I sold a small booklet & put it in an old (but new) computer disk envelope that was padded with foam. I had marked THROUGH the "first class" that was printed on it, and had written "Media" above it. In addition, in RED stamped ink, the PO had stamped "Media Rate" on it. Due to some unscrupluous (sp) eBayers, I always use delivery confirmation. I know the rules. For ANY first class, it has to be 3/4" thick to add D/C. But for media- it doesn't matter. Soooooooooooooo I hear from the buyer who said they had to pay almost $3 in extra shipping, saying I had underpaid. After several emails, I paid him the extra and he sent me the package-- where some new york postal worker had written a small dissertation on how you couldn't put d.c on a 1st class package & it wasn't thick enough, blah blah blah. HOW she came up with 2.97 as postage due, when that made the package MORE than priority (at the time) was beyond me. Once I find it again-- I WILL mail the whole shebang to the local postmaster! hahaha

But----I digress. I HAVE found its better just to play dumb. If I were asked what type box was on the inside, I'd say I don' tknow, I had help in packing or that I pack too many to know whats inside of what, and "is that a problem? Do you suspect I am shipping illegal items or documents&gt;?? Am I under arrest?" yeah, I'd be a smart aleck at certain post offices (esp ones that punch my packages LOL) ALL they are suposed to ask if there is anything perishable, combustible or fragile (i forget the whole shebang but never if there is additional correspondence) so they can STAMP an item as fragile or do additional inspections if it is perishable or combustible. I can't see WHY it would matter if you used another Priority box inside- unless they are worried about overuse of free materials for a purpose other than what they are intended for. This got so bad a while back (ebayers mainly using the packages wrong side out) that now they print USPS on the inside of all Priority packaging. Still-- I'd plead ignorance when asked questions that are not pertinent. There is NO reason for a postal worker to ask what EXACTLY is inside- unless you are shipping internationally. Then they would charge extra for correspondence. Also-- did you know its actually illegal to mark an international package as a 'gift' when its merchandise they purchased? If anyone ever asks you to do that, SAY NO b/c you are indeed perpetuating mail fraud.

When it comes to making claims, all post offices are not alike either. My local PO, which IS FANTASTIC- will just keep the broken item, but others- will keep ALL parts of the contents, even if the others are still useable. Some POs reimburse the whole amount, inc shipping since THEY damaged it- others will only reimburse the purchase amount. And just recently a person bought an already Chipped item from me- it arrived broken and HER post office allows her to get an ESTIMATE from an antique store for an appraisal and PAYS THAT! I was shocked at that one!!

As someone else said-- use the Paypal postage to mail your items and just drop 'em off (don't use those little satellite post offices!) and there are seldom any problems. My only complaint with doing that-- is that they never get scanned until they are delivered- which can wreak havoc on misplaced packages. the click n' ship at www.usps.com are equally good. Plus you never stand in line!

But Ed-- I'd write a formal complaint I think-- as I have looked over and have not found any of the restrictions that you mentioned. They could be there--- but still-- just another overzealous employee who can ruin your week.

The same guy who punched my package was later suspended for a week for refusing to help a very pregnant woman and her toddler (in 100 degree heat) who had car trouble but no cell phone. She waited until some customers came in to ask for use of their cell phone. The woman only needed a simple phone call, but he said he was a Federal employee and unable to help as she might be a TERRORIST! Asking how calling a tow truck and her walking out of the PO to wait on them could put any federal employees in danger fell on deaf ears. So much for compassion AND common sense!!!!
 
oh rifleman--

SOMEHOW, (probably b/c of ebay and internet sales overload) the post office DOES now come to your house to pick up ANYTHING!!! My local post office, with whom I am TOTALLY pleased, (they have actually left d/c notices at my house on their OWN time, on their way home wheN I have left them there by accident- not to mention calling me once when I left my debit card there- knowing i was the lady who 'drags in the garbage bag of packages all the time' LOLOL) But these sweet people told me I need to just log into usps.com and schedule a FREE pick up. They said theres a pink slip or something that you leave with them on your front porch and I think the carrier gets some sort of extra compensation for it- or at least credit of some sort. haven't used it yet, but I plan on it. Decatur is a town/city of near 60K- so not sure how that program works in rural areas-- but its worth going to the usps site and checking it out if you mail a lot!

but you're right-- right AFTER 9/11 they stopped such pick ups- but have started it back in the last year or so. Odd huh? LIke Terrorist threats have suddenly gone away, just with time?
 
My letter carrier picks up every prepaid and labeled package I leave and I haven't had one returned yet. In fact, I had an unexpected UPS delivery while I was on vacation and he took the UPS package back to the post office with him and stuck it in with my hold mail. So I can't complain about the USPS at all. Oh, did I mention that I gave him a pen for Christmas?
 
My local PO in my north Mississippi hometown is also the pits!

Get this:
1. They will NOT deliver within 1 mile of the PO. You must have a PO Box for mail if you live within 1 mile.
2. IF a package or envelope has the _street_ address instead of the P.O. Box number, they will NOT put it into your P.O. Box. It is either returned or put into the dead letter box.

I took a trip to Fairbanks, Alaska in mid-May and left my prescription sunglasses in the Avis rental car as I turned it in at the airport. I called them as soon as I landed in Minneapolis. They said they would mail them the next day. I never did get the glasses but on June 10, they called my home and left a message that the glasses came back. By this time I am back in Japan. My daughter called them back and they had put the street number instead of PO Box. It had stayed in my hometown PO for a week and was returned with "unable to deliver" stamp on it. The town is 1800 people. I was born there, the people know me and my family. I have been written up in the local paper several times for my overseas work.

I have had other incredibly horrible stores there also. The people are freindly and talk about family and things going on all the time. Just incompetent. And no, they will not check and see if something is in the dead letter box. AFter Katrina, new people in town had to have a PO or street box over 1 mile from the PO, or no mail. They would not hold the mail for pickup at the PO. Heartless!

Another complaint is the ZIP CODE: I once addressed a package to the wrong state but correct zip code. It never came back and was not delivered. Back in the spring, my wife addressed a wedding invitation to a freind in TX and put the right ZIP. Because they had lived so long in Louisiana, LOML wrote LA on the envelope. It cam back saying no such address in LA. So, what is the purpose of ZIP. All they have to do is look at the ZIP and send it. OH and when LOML got the wedding invitation back, she wrote the street address of the 800 population town in TX. It was not delivered but sent back because it did not have the Box number.

I can understand this mentality in a huge city, but in a town of 1800 or 800 where there is more wait then work, come on! I hate to complain to the people or I know that utility bills will accidently "get lost", causing some problems.
 
I find this whole thing confusing. I had always assumed that the packaging that I get for free at USPS was intended to be single layered. Stuffing one USPS package inside of another, to receive a reduced rate, seems dishonest.

I don't understand why tape can't be used to seal a seam. That seems absurd.

I don't understand why Ed spent a week dealing with this.

I don't understand why he drove forty miles to try to save a few dollars, at least at the rate of current gas prices.

The solution seem obvious to me.

Use the box and pay the extra cost, or use the flat rate (with no tape) and insure it. Pass the miniscule increased cost onto the purchaser.
 
Ed,
Don't give up. I ran across the same thing. I always carry a copy of THEIR rules with me. The trick is to make a big fuss when there is a very busy line.
YOU are correct. I the PO rules it says tape IS allowed. I did not read this entire thread but if you have not already be sure and file a formal complaint. It was the threat of this, that finally made my post office open their eyes. The first time I pulled out the copy of the rules they asked me if they could make a COPY of it because they had never seen it before!!!!!!!!
Alice
 
Originally posted by elody21
<br />Ed,
Don't give up. I ran across the same thing. I always carry a copy of THEIR rules with me. The trick is to make a big fuss when there is a very busy line.
YOU are correct. I the PO rules it says tape IS allowed. I did not read this entire thread but if you have not already be sure and file a formal complaint. It was the threat of this, that finally made my post office open their eyes. The first time I pulled out the copy of the rules they asked me if they could make a COPY of it because they had never seen it before!!!!!!!!
Alice
Click to expand...

That could be a good idea. I rarely take anything to the PO anymore. Mostly to save time and gas. My packages, of any size, are picked up at my house by the rural carrier. I have one going out today. In an earlier post, it was said the clerk asked what was inside the package. They are not supposed to do that except with media mail. He (the postal clerk) lied and cheated by charging an extra 39 cents for the letter inside. All they are supposed to ask is if it contains certain hazardous or messy stuff. There are some screwy rules, though. The PO won't take packages made from liquor cartons because at one time they carried flammable stuff. Stoopid rule.
 
Originally posted by leehljp
<br />My local PO in my north Mississippi hometown is also the pits!

Get this:
1. They will NOT deliver within 1 mile of the PO. You must have a PO Box for mail if you live within 1 mile.
2. IF a package or envelope has the _street_ address instead of the P.O. Box number, they will NOT put it into your P.O. Box. It is either returned or put into the dead letter box.
Click to expand...

You sure you're not in Glade Spring, VA? That is EXACTLY the way they work too. When I lived there, I was within a mile so no delivery. But a lot of places won't ship to PO boxes (and a lot of rebates won't either) so I started playing with the address. I'd put my address as 123 My Street, Box 321. Shippers would think it was something like a apartment address so wouldn't complain, and the PO would see the box # and would be happy. Never had a problem like that. Don't know if that would work with other POs though.
 
MY PO folks are great its been the same 2 for about 20 yrs a small PO NO complaints from me about my PO or the workers ! WE ship everyday ! And go everyday But we will ask for a pickup in BAD weather or if one of us is sick ![:D]






http://affordablepipes.com/
 
Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Oh, JimGo, I HAVE gotten SEVERAL back. Even some that were FINE-in their opinion!

If it weighs over 16 oz, no matter what kind of envelope or postage, you need to come to the Post Office in person to mail it - they blame THIS INNOVATION in customer service on 9/11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

That is simply not an accurate statement. Sorry. But your 'facts' are not fact. I regularly ship USPS priority envelopes and boxes from home that weight over 16 oz. A priority box filled with osage orange weighs considerably more than one pound. I do my labels from my computer and put the boxes on the porch. They are picked up with a smile.
Click to expand...

Frank,

These are NOT MY facts! I am parroting back information given to me by the same postal station that can't read their policies. IF you have been treated differently, it merely serves to confirm that the USPS is NOT UNIFORM HERE, either.

THANK-YOU!! I am pursuing this up the chain of command, and this will be ONE more issue.
 
Originally posted by timdaleiden
<br />I find this whole thing confusing. I had always assumed that the packaging that I get for free at USPS was intended to be single layered. Stuffing one USPS package inside of another, to receive a reduced rate, seems dishonest.

I don't understand why tape can't be used to seal a seam. That seems absurd.

I don't understand why Ed spent a week dealing with this.

I don't understand why he drove forty miles to try to save a few dollars, at least at the rate of current gas prices.

The solution seem obvious to me.

Use the box and pay the extra cost, or use the flat rate (with no tape) and insure it. Pass the miniscule increased cost onto the purchaser.
Click to expand...

Tim,

When I came to the IAP, I NEVER used the USPS-thought their service sucked and had several pieces of mail that were not mine delivered to me each week to prove it (meanwhile, checks from my customers were being delivered elsewhere in town).

So, why am I pursuing this? Because some months ago there were a couple threads here about shipping options. The sentiment was vehement - the vast majority wanted to take advantage of the Flat Rate envelope. CSUSA was strongly berated for not charging actual postage (they have since reacted by changing their shipping policy).

Since I am trying to sell products on this forum, from time to time, it is NOT MY money I am protecting - it is my IAP CUSTOMERS'. THIS is what is motivating my "crusade".

Oh, and I do find the situation ludicrous-that also is a contributing factor.

[:D][:D]
 
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />
Originally posted by Rifleman1776
<br />
Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Oh, JimGo, I HAVE gotten SEVERAL back. Even some that were FINE-in their opinion!

If it weighs over 16 oz, no matter what kind of envelope or postage, you need to come to the Post Office in person to mail it - they blame THIS INNOVATION in customer service on 9/11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

That is simply not an accurate statement. Sorry. But your 'facts' are not fact. I regularly ship USPS priority envelopes and boxes from home that weight over 16 oz. A priority box filled with osage orange weighs considerably more than one pound. I do my labels from my computer and put the boxes on the porch. They are picked up with a smile.
Click to expand...

Frank,

These are NOT MY facts! I am parroting back information given to me by the same postal station that can't read their policies. IF you have been treated differently, it merely serves to confirm that the USPS is NOT UNIFORM HERE, either.

THANK-YOU!! I am pursuing this up the chain of command, and this will be ONE more issue.
Click to expand...


Ed, definately follow-through with supervisors, postmaster, etc. If possible get copies of the regs. I have had similar problems trying to mail firearms. Wrong clerk will simply tell customer it can't be mailed. They can be within the regs. Had a similar problem with UPS trying to ship ammunition. Depends on which idiot waits on you. Sorry to blame you for the mis-info.
 
Frank,

If you walk into the postal service with the firearm in question held in a horizontal position, aimed at the "server", I suspect you will get his attention!!!! If I were that employee, all further sentences would start with "yessireeeeee! Sirrrrrr!!!"

If he realizes it is a civil war era weapon, the reaction may be somewhat more coherent!![^][^][^]
 
Originally posted by ed4copies


Tim,


So, why am I pursuing this? Because some months ago there were a couple threads here about shipping options. The sentiment was vehement - the vast majority wanted to take advantage of the Flat Rate envelope. CSUSA was strongly berated for not charging actual postage (they have since reacted by changing their shipping policy).

Since I am trying to sell products on this forum, from time to time, it is NOT MY money I am protecting - it is my IAP CUSTOMERS'. THIS is what is motivating my "crusade".

Oh, and I do find the situation ludicrous-that also is a contributing factor.

[:D][:D]
Click to expand...

Well, good luck to you. If all else fails, there is one last option you may have to consider...












pigeon.jpg



[:)]
 
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