Updated wood caution

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TellicoTurning

TellicoTurning

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
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8,208
Location
Tellico Plains, Tennessee, USA.
posted back in May...

Wood Caution

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In another forum a thread was started about wearing turning smocks.. naturally, I made some smart aleck remark about not wearing no stinking smock....:D

Well, I think I got my comeuppence.. Thursday I glued up some woods to use as peppermill blanks... I cut them Saturday and started turning them round. Yesterday morning I woke up with my left eye swollen almost closed, my left check and jaw swollen and puffy and the right eye all puffy and both eyes running like faucets, and a major rash on my upper chest and arms.
One of the woods I used was a wormy maple and parts of it was a little soft and punky, so I used 1/2 a bottle of thin CA to try and stabilize it. Another of the woods was several pieces of Muirapixuna, a member of the legume/pea family and according to the internet, known to cause skin irritation. I can attest that it evidently does big time.
At first I attributed the swollen eyes to the fumes from the CA, I usually move to the doorway my shot and apply CA in large quantities outside the shop. I did Saturday, but not immediately, I know I had some fumes well up in my face before I went to the doorway.
I was turning in my normal attire, tee-shirt, levis, dust mask and face mask. I also had my DC going full tilt and turning right in the mouth of the intake hose. But still hand sawdust over my entire chest and arms.
At any rate, it looks like I need to start wearing some sort of protection that will keep the sawdust and sanding dust from wicking through my tee-shirt and keep some wood sawdusts off my arms.
Muirapixuna (and whatever it's other names might be) is a nice wood, close grained, with good colors ranging from a golden tan to a dark brown and with good grain patterns, but if I use it again, I'll definitely need to use more caution. So should everyone else using this wood.
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I made the above post a while back in May... I got lots and lots of good posts, sympathy and cautions from the good members of IAP... since then I think I have isolated the wood better... it seems that my problem isn't the Muirapixuna at all... the glue up in question had a good portion of Paduak > which I have turned many many times in the past < but recently I was doing some bottle stoppers from just Paduak... next morning I was broken out in my rash again... no swelling of the eyes this time, but I was almost raw from the rash... I've pulled all the paduak I could find in my shop and set it aside for now... probably will see about disposing of it later with the group. I bought a smock from Lee Valley and wear it religeously > even though it's hot and uncomfortable, it's better than the rash.< I'm healed again and plan to stay that way... I love turning and don't want to give it up, so I'm finally getting smarter and taking proper precautions.
 
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You may also get a secondary reaction to a relatively small irritation. This recently happened to me when working with Bolivian Rosewood, which I have used many times before. I had a small breakout under my watchband the next day, followed by a major one 3 days later, leaving me a beet-red, bumpy, itchy mess from the navel up, and requiring oral steroid therapy (dangerous if you are diabetic) to get it turned around. I was broke out in many areas that were protected, and had not sweated at all (A/C in shop) during my contact with this wood. The dermatologist said the secondary reaction was from the inside out, due to my immune system getting so fired up at the first outbreak, that I literally became allergic to myself for a short time. It was so bad that he actually had me tested for lupus... (negative, thank God...).
 
While it is not wood that causes my problems (except for Poison Ivy/Oak) but CA fumes and CA sanding dust. Severe flu like symptoms for two to three days accompanied by some chest pains.

Makes me VERY cautious! And for the first 2 years of use, no reaction what so ever.

Take care of yourself! We'll take care of your paduak! :biggrin:
 
Well I have Lupus, And can tell you that wood dust can set it off like know bodys business. I us my air mask when in the shop. But some time that does not help to much and i just have to stop for awhile. Two to three weeks some times more.
You should always use some type of protection with all the dust that is made while turning. If you have one reaction the next will be worse.
 
I'm taking all the precautions I can now... I turn on the lights, then the DC, all the fans, open all the windows, then before I go to the lathe, I now put on the smock, zip to the neck, tighten the velcro around the neck, put on the respirator and face mask, then I turn on the lathe (standing to one side in case I put the wood on wrong or the lathe is set at too high of a speed - DAMWIDT)
 
I write about the hazards of becoming sensitized vs. being allergic to some of our exotic (and not so exotic like Oak) woods in making various replies to dust collection.

Hank Lee has recently experience the effects. Now you to have joined the ranks of being sensitized, Chuck.

Unfortunately for you two, the sensitization you have developed can become far worse than it is now. Over time the body basically gives up being able to overcome the toxins in these woods that we become sensitized to. It can kill or damage you if you are careless and continue to expose yourself to it.

I constantly state that Dust Collection is just the BEGINNING step in protecting our bodies from the ravages of allergic reactions. Clothing, respirators, adequate air filtration, etc. are further steps that MUST be considered when working with our woods. The expense of these precautions far outweigh the medical bills and that money could be better spent in the shop!

One just can't take enough precautions as both your stories so vividly prove. :wink:

Just because one is not currently reactive to a particular wood proves very little ... if anything at all. Over time our bodies absorb the offending particulate matter by inhalation and also by skin contact ... just like Poison Ivy for many of us.

Becoming sensitized is nothing like being allergic. The results of becoming sensitized are that you will react more violently with each outbreak. Suddenly you wake up in the IC unit of your local hospital and are very near deaths door. THEN you have had it and never get over the reaction completely.

Having been a PI specializing in the health industry for many years, I have seen big, very healthy individuals overcome by various chemicals/toxins/dust/other particulate materials absorbed at their workplace. It is too late for them, so we all need to learn from their mistakes ... and learn early on.

I always have my dust collection unit running, along with a shop vacuum right at the end of my cutting tool, an air filtration unit overhead, and wear a full faced filtered air mask and wear my smock EVERYTIME I am turning. NO EXCEPTIONS! Sometimes I do believe a full body hazardous suit would be better. At least I could air condition it easier.

Just be cautious of your exposure to any wood dust in your shop. Take every precaution possible and get all the dust removal you can get. I doubt that we can ever be to over protected.

Remember ... If you don't have your health then just what do we have? :eek:

Now if only someone could explain why I ever had a stroke I would really like to hear from them as all my doctors have absolutely no medical reason for it to have occurred in the first place. Just my time I figure ... at least I am still above ground today. :)
 
All of us often make a key mistake. Very few masks or filters stop gasses. And turning releases gasses as well as particles. I react violently to some ebonies whether I wear protective gear or not. I just turned the last piece of ebony in the shop and I will never work another piece again - way too much hassle.

Marc
 
Fred,

I have read of "sensitized" before, and I think it was you that wrote it, but it didn't hit home until now. I think it was the addition of the chest pains this time that made me look at what the future holds.

In making the PITH pen, I used my DC system and a fan, but only used the mask when sanding. I caught a whiff of the fumes twice when applying thick CA. One other thing I did - I cleaned out the DC bag with a mask on, but got a lot of residual dust on my clothes. That is just as bad.

1. I will have to look at disposable paper bags that are available here and place them inside of the cloth bags.

2. I will have to treat the changing of the DC bag the same as you recommended as with turning. Smock, mask, gloves, air filtration and a damp towel to wipe down the smock, mask and gloves.

Fred, thank you for posting the seriousness of this for some of us.


It kinda reminds me of an incident when I was in seminary in Ft Worth, Texas some years ago :) :
I grew up on a farm where accidents happened and a person owned up to them and took responsibility for such. Sickness such as colds, flu, mild fevers and throw-up diarrhea didn't stop work. (Nor did it stop 12 years of perfect attendance in 1-12 grades of school.) Much like a red neck macho-mentality. Anyway, I kept getting a sever sore throat every 5 to 6 weeks and it was just irritating. I went to the doctor.
He said, "You have allergies."
I replied nonchalantly: "Not me, I am a country boy, that is for weak city slickers.":rolleyes:
He replied: "Well, I don't know if you noticed, but you live in the city now."
:redface:

No matter how one thinks, their body has its own way of dealing with airborne particles!
 
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A good organic respirator can be bought at the BORG for around $30. MAJOR insurance against gasses, fumes, and dust.

That, and you get to look like Darth Vader for a while, especially if you wear a face shield.
 
leehljp said:
Fred,

1. I will have to look at disposable paper bags that are available here and place them inside of the cloth bags.
Click to expand...

Hank,
somebody here, and I think it was Dario, suggested that we could put a plastic garbage bag inside the cloth bag... I keep a heavy gauge contractor's bag inside my lower cloth bag... then I just disconnect the metal ban that holds the bag up, tie off the plastic bag and peel off the cloth bag... little dust. I still make sure I have a mask though.
 
Jared,

You should start. Just because the wood causes no problems now doesn't mean it won't later after you've inhaled it for a while. Read Fred's post again. Even if you keep it off your arms and clothes, breathing that dust over a long time is bad even if you don't become sensitized. A large percentage of us are as careful as we should be, including myself. But these posts are reminders I need to do more.
 
Jared ... Our friend TBone says it all in his first three words of his above post, "You should start." I will add a fourth important word, "Now!"

Age does not really enter into the equation here. What matters most is that just because you are not reacting right now does not mean that you will not react later ... that is the problem with becoming sensitized.

Over a period of time that varies with each of us periodic - or constant - exposure will eventually end in an allergic reaction due simply to the fact that our bodies have had enough of what appears to be a good thing. By then any further exposure just causes bigger and far worst reactions.

Start now and protect yourself from future health problems. You will thank yourself if you do and you will be far better off. That does not mention the money you save over the costs of major health care and very expensive treatments.

I would recommend to all wood workers here to start off with the best that money can buy and put a collection nozzle right at the source of the problem and that would be as close to the working tip as is possible. Then, have a second defensive nozzle close to any area so that the spillage from the first is collected.

I use a highly flexible nozzle from Loc-Line Industries. I have mounted a holding plate to the end of my banjo and can actually flex the line to any position I need in order to collect directly at the end of my cutting tool. Sure it gets in the way at times, but I can touch it with my hand and immediately re-locate it's position. It becomes second nature after a little bit. The minor inconvenience of having to touch it is FAR outweighed by the benefits I get from not breathing the fine particulates that are being produced by cutting or sanding. I power this line with my shop vac which is a distance away from my immediate location.

I have a 4" line directly to the rear of the area in which I work at that grabs an additional bit of that which actually escapes the Loc-Line device. Most of this "escape" is large enough that it falls away to the shop floor.

My 4" line feeds into a cyclone lid atop a metal trash can and then the vacuumed air continues on to the main dust collection unit with a .3 micro canister filter in place of the cloth bag. This separates all the major chips from the finer dust and fills the metal trash can first. Having this set-up also protects the vanes of the dust collector from potentially very expensive repairs should a larger chunk of debris be collected. This set-up also removes CA fumes quite well.

A friend of mine had his collection system totally destroyed when a half inch piece of wood debris impacted his vanes and actually shattered one of them. It would have cost him as much to repair the unit as it was to replace it with a new one. (Great excuse for an update.) That cost also factors in the amount of time he was "down."

Haven't you ever heard a large "thunk" in your existing system when a piece of wood was sucked in? Just imagine the damage it would cause when hitting one of the vacuum vanes spinning at a million hours an hour - or however fast they turn. Just look at the damage to a car's windshield from a tiny rock off the road. Same problem with a chunk of wood!

I hear them ever so often, but my 'chunks' are hitting the metal can of the presorting cyclone and I just keep on keeping on ...! My biggest problem is holding onto my sandpaper or a polishing cloth since the vacuum is so hungry. I use a piece and suddenly it is gone, sucked up into the bowels of the beast never to be see again. You can hear it screaming as it travels the metal collection pipes and then suddenly quietness.

Enough soap box preaching for now. I will quit and step down with one last remark, GET YOURSELF A DECENT SYSTEM FOR DUST COLLECTION and enjoy a life long hobby, otherwise expect the hobby to suddenly come to an abrupt end one day in your future. You just cannot be to overly cautions and safe when dealing with fine particulate materials. Research the difference of allergic reactions vs sensitized reactions ... I think you will really get busy then.
 
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Take their advice, Jared... Once it starts, it's a very slippery slope. :monkey:
 
Jared,
When I started I didn't use a mask either.. I have always use glasses to protect the eyes. And in the beginning Ca made my eyes smart and water some, but not too much so I didn't think anything of it. Now I make sure I have plenty of ventilation, even sometimes taking my work outside the shop in the open air. At 16 you may be invincible, but you'll only be 16 for a short time. Take heed of what these other guys say.
 
If you add plastic bags inside your dust collector, you may be putting a very high restriction to your machine. Then need a certain area of fabric to handle the air volume. I have one of the collectors that has a pleated filter can on top and plastic bag on bottom. All the pleats allow enough air out so I can use of the plastic. If your collector is small, check with the supplier.
 
First exposure to any substance is the sensitizing dose and each every exposure after that only serves to increase one's sensitivity. For those of us who turn daily or often the sensitivity increases greatly. Another way to help with exposure is to shower after turning as this removes is from your skin, hair and nasal passages rather then letting in remain on your skin in minute amounts for many hours where it remains in contact with your skin, but more importantly it is absorbed through your skin. Also changing your clothes and washing the smock often will help.
 
low_48 said:
If you add plastic bags inside your dust collector, you may be putting a very high restriction to your machine. Then need a certain area of fabric to handle the air volume. I have one of the collectors that has a pleated filter can on top and plastic bag on bottom. All the pleats allow enough air out so I can use of the plastic. If your collector is small, check with the supplier.
Click to expand...

My DC is one of those double bag jobs... same size bags top and bottom. The bottom bag gets the contractors bag and the top handles the air. I don't think the plastic bag would work otherwise.
 
nava1uni said:
First exposure to any substance is the sensitizing dose and each every exposure after that only serves to increase one's sensitivity. For those of us who turn daily or often the sensitivity increases greatly. Another way to help with exposure is to shower after turning as this removes is from your skin, hair and nasal passages rather then letting in remain on your skin in minute amounts for many hours where it remains in contact with your skin, but more importantly it is absorbed through your skin. Also changing your clothes and washing the smock often will help.
Click to expand...

The shower is my first stop on the way into the house from the shop..
 
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