To drill or not to drill, that is the question

[mpex]

Getting ready to work on some Segmenting blanks. I've seen people drill the blank before, some during,some after.

What do you do and why? Is it more risky to do one vs the other?

Another couple questions.

How long should I wait for tight bond III to dry before making another cut?

CA or wood glue? What is your preference and why?

 

[Leviblue]

Drilling before or after depends in the material and layout. I prefer to drill after assembly. I us CA for gluing the segments together and epoxy in the tube.

 

[D.Oliver]

I drill after all the segmenting is done. Otherwise you have to worry about the the hole being perfectly lined up and parrellel on every segment. Also on some segmenting work the hole needs to be perfectly centered. The biggest seceret is to drill slowly, use sharp bits, clean your chips out ofter and keep your heat down. The heat will cause glue to fail, both ca and wood glue. If you have to shut the drill press off and walk away for 5 or 10 minutes to let the blank cool of, do it. Those five or ten minutes are nothing when compared to the time it take to construsct a segmented blank. As far as glue I've used both. I generally lean more toward wood glue because it has more open time. I always let mine set for 24 hours to ensure its fully cured before I drill it though. If you use super glue I only wait 15 or so minutes and I don't think you would have to wait that long even.

 

[jttheclockman]

That question is really one that depends on the blank. Some layouts work well if you construct on the tube and some work well if all segmented and then drilled. No easy right or wrong answer there. I will always use wood glues on wood. Nothing better for wood. I will always epoxy on a tube. I use CA for acrylics. I am looking into another source of glueing acrylics. Will let you know how well that works out in the future. I am doing some elaborate acrylic work or at least many pieces so I need to speed the drying times.

 

[lorbay]

Same as Kevin for my blanks.

Lin.

 

[leehljp]

I agree fully with John. It depends on the kind of segmenting you are doing and the type of alignment needed.

On some I have drilled first; on others I have drilled after.

 

[mpex]

Ok. Thanks for the responses! Hank and John, what does it depend on? What type of segmentation would be better for one or the other?

 

[leehljp]

Here are three picts of segments that I do for drilling first:

Another:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_30_Pieces_of_Silver.jpg


How I did it:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Blank_construction.jpg







Here is a pict where I segmented first and then drilled. The drilling had to be PRECISE or any off center drilling would have shown by causing parallel imperfections. Still this would have been impossible to "drill first" by its very nature:

There are MANY KINDS of segments that require the thinking process of "Which First", and probably some segments that it doesn't matter which is first.

 

[plantman]

:bananen_smilies022:Here are my 12 steps for a complex segmented pen like the castle I have shown.
1 I make up my segmented blanks
2 put on a coat of thin Ca glue to fill any viods
3 wrap the blank tightly with duc tape
4 drill hole for tube,starting with a smaller drill and working my way up to the correct size
5 cut blanks on bandsaw with sliding table to proper size and slip them on a tube to keep them in proper order. ( very important )
6 transfer to work bench, where I have another longer than needed tube mounted on a 6"x6" block of wood covered with a piece of wax paper.
7 Using wood glue, transfer and align your segments on the tube in proper order, and longer than is needed
8 check your alignment and clamp over night
9 saturate with thin CA again
10 round off the square edges of your blank on a disk sander to avoid grabs, and square ends
11 mount on your lathe and turn. stop every couple of turns and coat with CA again
12 put on finish of choise and add fittings. stand back and smile
Jim S

Note!! If you are using metals or resins, you will have to put your blanks together with Thick CA ( more working time and gap filling ) or epoxy to make them stick together.

 

[plantman]

This is the finished pen. Jim S

 

[jttheclockman]

Moishe and others

There are not hard core rules in pen turning. Alot of trial and error is taken on by each person. We try to elliminate a few errors by asking questions such as this. But in reality what is good for one person may not work for another. Maybe you can come up with a better method or combine methods.

There are sooooooooo many possibilities of segmenting and the surface has just been scratched. That is why I was hoping many more would jump on the bandwagon. Whenever making up a blank consisting of segments can mean many different things. You can have pieces of different medium glued together. You can scroll designs and fill with resins. You can add dots and so on.

Many times a blank can be assembled either way by glueing first and drilling or drilling and assembling on the tube. I will show a few examples of recent pens I made.

The first is the segmented black and white rollerball. I drilled ahead of time and assembled on the tube. I felt it gave me the best chance of lining up the segments and also being centered which is huge when segmenting on some blanks. I probably could have made the blank and drilled it.

Here are the parts used.

Now here is a pen that I could have also done either way but again I chose to assemble on the tube.

Now here is a scalloped pen that I had to make the blank and drill it after completed.

When making Celtic knots you need to construct the blank and then drill it. But again drilling accuracy is essential for the design to look proper and that alot of the times determines what to do also.

 

[leehljp]

John,

Excellent reply and excellent pics to illustrate. This is a thread (especially because of your post) that should be marked by any who wishes learn of segmenting, or to use as a link when segment questions come up again in the future.

 

[jttheclockman]

John,

Excellent reply and excellent pics to illustrate. This is a thread (especially because of your post) that should be marked by any who wishes learn of segmenting, or to use as a link when segment questions come up again in the future.

Thanks Hank. It is good to see you posting again. I know times are not always easy to do but people like you have given others ideas and knowledge because you are not afraid to share. I am trying to do this with this segmenting forum because like I said there is a whole world of ideas and methods to do segmenting work. Just simple segmenting makes a blank look so much different and gets people asking how did he do that. I am currently able to get into my shop for a few days and started working on a few different blanks. Some simple and some abit more involved. I am still learning some new tricks also and hopefully will be able to share when I get them to the point I feel confindent. I am still using ordinary woodworking tools so if some flaws show up it gives that hand made look as I always say.

I hope others challenge themselves and take a stab at some simple segmenting. Once you do one you get hooked real easily. Also when you do one simple segmented blank there is so many other things that can be done with that simple design and if someone will post something maybe we can point them to these things.

I am beginning to sound like a broken record but I am enthused again and want to expand my knowledge of this part of pen turning. Hope others join the ride.

 

[StephenM]

I use CA for acrylics. I am looking into another source of glueing acrylics. Will let you know how well that works out in the future. I am doing some elaborate acrylic work or at least many pieces so I need to speed the drying times.

WeldOn IPS Weldon 5 Oz 16 It's what they use for building acrylic aquariums, overflows, etc. Dries quickly and the bond is stronger than the acrylic.

 

[jttheclockman]

I use CA for acrylics. I am looking into another source of glueing acrylics. Will let you know how well that works out in the future. I am doing some elaborate acrylic work or at least many pieces so I need to speed the drying times.

WeldOn IPS Weldon 5 Oz 16 It's what they use for building acrylic aquariums, overflows, etc. Dries quickly and the bond is stronger than the acrylic.

That is exactly what I am trying. Seems to work on some things.

 

[wood128]

I like Plantman"s 12 steps for drilling and turning a segmented blank. I have been making many segmented blanks this past year , and my experience with the use of Titebond III glue is good , if you give it 24 hours to completely dry. Lately I found a new Titebond Translucent Wood Glue . It hides the glue line , fast setting , short clamp time and the bond is strong. The only place I found the glue is Rockler online for about $5 a 8 once bottle. I sometimes will use CA for filling voids , etc. but really don't like to mess with that stuff !! Drill those holes SLOWLY in the blanks. JT, that scolloped pen is beautiful ....super job.